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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Gadget on Thursday 09 August 18 23:24 BST (UK)

Title: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 09 August 18 23:24 BST (UK)
I've just discovered that a second cousin married the same person twice and I'm rather puzzled.

One entry is for Q2 1925 and one is for Q4 1926. They are definitely the same couple and the same registration district. The second was a church wedding, by licence , performed by a brother who was ordained (but not the vicar of the parish). I found the full cert for the second marriage on FindMyPast. The first one was probably a registry office marriage as I've found no entry in the local records (either in Denbighshire or Shropshire as the RD straddled the border)  so I'll have to send off for the cert.

In the meantime, does anyone have any ideas why this might have occurred  or even if it was legally possible. Their first child was born a year later so it wasn't a rushed marriage.

Gadget
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 10 August 18 07:00 BST (UK)
Perhaps the first marriage was irregular in some way?  Would the bride and/or the bridegroom have needed the permission of parents?

Maybe the family insisted on a second wedding because there were no family members present at the first?
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 10 August 18 07:05 BST (UK)
The only instance I have found in my family of the same people marrying twice were when the groom was in the forces so presumably had married 'without permission'
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Flattybasher9 on Friday 10 August 18 07:10 BST (UK)
Are you really related to Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor ?  :D ;D ;)

Mlaky
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Gadget on Friday 10 August 18 08:02 BST (UK)
Are you really related to Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor ?  :D ;D ;)

Mlaky

How did you guess - my Welsh side  ;D

Seriously, the groom was 37 and the bride was 27 on  the second one. The groom's parents were dead.  I had the impression from the family that it was a shot gun one.  I'm wondering if there was a pregnancy that miscarried and they had a rushed one but didn't tell anyone. They then had the church wedding and no one knew of the first one. They gave different addresses on the second one too.   I thought that the second one wouldn't have been legal though. The Church one should have been a blessing only - surely? I suppose that if they hadn't admitted marriage, then no one would have been any wiser.

There's no one to ask now as the couple's only child died 2 years ago  :-\


Gadget
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: familydar on Friday 10 August 18 08:56 BST (UK)
I have something similar but seven years apart and involving a surname change of the groom.  Both of full age.  All I can surmise is a not proven dead estranged first wife (hence 7 years) and associated scandal (hence name change) but I've never found anything in the newspapers and no family legends have been passed down so an enduring mystery.

It will be interesting to find out what theories other rootschatters have because they may blow my idea right out of the water!

Jane :-)
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: AntonyMMM on Friday 10 August 18 09:02 BST (UK)
These double marriages do crop up quite regularly - and often there is no obvious explanation. The WW2 fighter pilot Sir Douglas Bader being a well known example.

It is quite legal ( and specifically allowed under the Marriage Act) for a couple to have a religious wedding ceremony after already being married in a register office - but the second marriage doesn't require banns or any licence  and should not be entered into the church's marriage register.
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Gadget on Friday 10 August 18 09:28 BST (UK)
.

It is quite legal ( and specifically allowed under the Marriage Act) for a couple to have a religious wedding ceremony after already being married in a register office - but the second marriage doesn't require banns or any licence  and should not be entered into the church's marriage register.


But it was by licence and was written into the register and is listed in the GRO index  ???

Thanks for everybody's comments so far.

Gadget
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Melbell on Friday 10 August 18 09:34 BST (UK)
At the second marriage, what did the bride and groom give as their marital statuses?

If they felt that the first marriage was irregular in some way, that could account for it.  But a second marriage only serves to cast doubt on the validity of the first, so it's not usually advisable, especially if there are already children.

Melbell

Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Gadget on Friday 10 August 18 09:37 BST (UK)
Bachelor and spinster!

The  entries are

O2, 1925, Oswestry
Q4 1926, Oswestry

The 1926 marriage certificate ahows the marriage taking place on 1st December 1926 at the church of the groom's parish. Addresses of the bride and groom are different. The bride's brother and sister signed and the grooms's brother officiated.

I will await the 1925 cert with interest.
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Gadget on Friday 10 August 18 10:05 BST (UK)
The officiating minister was primarily a school master and was working at the Bluecoat school in Liverpool at the time. He appears to have officiated/assisted  at some of his sibling's and their offsprings' marriages.

No newspaper reports so far.
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Deirdre784 on Friday 10 August 18 10:38 BST (UK)
I have a couple marrying twice, several years apart and in different places. Getting both certificates solved the puzzle as the ‘bachelor’ groom wasn’t divorced from his first wife at the time.

Not the same here though as they are both unmarried on the 2nd occasion.
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Gadget on Friday 10 August 18 10:41 BST (UK)
As far as I know from family info, cousin Donald wasn't married before.

I should get the 1925 cert in a week's time. I didn't think it was worth the extra for next day delivery. 

It's not the line that we are related through, Deidre   ;D
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Deirdre784 on Friday 10 August 18 10:46 BST (UK)
It's not the line that we are related through, Deidre   ;D

Gosh, i’d forgotten we were related 😀 i must have another look 👀
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Gadget on Friday 10 August 18 11:14 BST (UK)
I've just found a consular marriage in Calais 1916-20 for someone with the same name/initial as my cousin. It's not uncommon though and, searching through the service records, there are quite a few.

I do know that he would have reason to be in the Calais area as he was a mining engineer who was in the group who explored the construction of a tunnel in WW1 .

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. the plot thickens.  Should I order the cert?

Added - relief - the middle name is different, although same initial. TG for Ancestry trees when they're correct!
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: River Tyne Lass on Friday 10 August 18 11:58 BST (UK)
My parents married twice.  Dad was RC and my Mother was C of E and so they decided to marry in a register office.  The local priest found out around 2 years later and was not at all happy.  Upshot was priest persuaded them to go through another ceremony at the local Church.
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: nanny jan on Friday 10 August 18 12:09 BST (UK)
My 2xgt. aunt seems to have married the same man twice; once in Southwark in December 1853 and again in Chelsea in 1854. He was a widower and she was a spinster. No idea why unless there were 2 couples with exactly the same details.   ::)
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: BenRalph on Friday 10 August 18 13:24 BST (UK)
My aunt and uncle married, got divorced, then married again a few years later. My aunt can't remember the date of the first so doesn't celebrate it.
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Melbell on Friday 10 August 18 14:57 BST (UK)
When second marriages (between the same parties) take place 'openly' with no hidden reasons, the marital status should reflect the fact that they've been married to each other before: so would be "Went through a form of marriage on.........at........."
or "Previously married on.............at.........Marriage dissolved on..............." 

I'm sure it doesn't always happen like that though!

I wonder if in this case someone in the family didn't like the register office marriage and it was easy for the priest-who-was-a-relation to get a Licence (no awkward Banns to call!) and marry them again 'properly'.

Melbell

Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Gadget on Friday 10 August 18 15:06 BST (UK)


I wonder if in this case someone in the family didn't like the register office marriage and it was easy for the priest-who-was-a-relation to get a Licence (no awkward Banns to call!) and marry them again 'properly'.

Melbell


That's the most likely in this case, Melbell.  The minister was a brother.
I think I'll wait to see what info is revealed on the earlier cert.

Thanks to all who've replied. I've now marked this thread as completed.

Gadget
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Sc00p on Friday 10 August 18 15:47 BST (UK)
There is something unusual about the second registration the page number is outside the expected range for the district.  Is it a relative of the bride on the same page for the first registration or just a coincidence?
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Gadget on Friday 10 August 18 16:24 BST (UK)
It's the first one that's the one I'm querying.  I have the certificate for the second one. 

Thanks for your interest  :)

PS - both entries match the couple.
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: eadaoin on Friday 10 August 18 19:41 BST (UK)
The only instance I have found in my family of the same people marrying twice were when the groom was in the forces so presumably had married 'without permission'

Great-uncle Tom married his wife twice - a year apart. He was a policeman in the R.I.C. and married the first time after 6 years service (they weren't supposed to marry until they had 7 years service) . . maybe there was a baby on the way, though I've never found a birth corresponding.
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: cuffie81 on Friday 10 August 18 20:43 BST (UK)
The topic of couples marrying twice comes every so often and yet, and I could be mistaken, I don't recall anyone finding a substantiated reason for it. I would have thought occasionally someone would find a bit of evidence on a marriage record, in a newspaper item or in a service record as to why but apparently not. We all just seem to end up speculating as to the reason.

I have some interest in this as I have a set of 2xgt grandparents that married twice, a couple of years apart; both times in church and after banns. In my case it's likely due him being in the army and not having permission for the first marriage, however, there's no evidence of that on his service record.
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Gadget on Friday 10 August 18 20:46 BST (UK)
Absolutely no obvious reason for the marriages that I highlighted, apart from the suggestion made by Mellbell. 

 


I wonder if in this case someone in the family didn't like the register office marriage and it was easy for the priest-who-was-a-relation to get a Licence (no awkward Banns to call!) and marry them again 'properly'.

Melbell


That's the most likely in this case, Melbell.  The minister was a brother.
I think I'll wait to see what info is revealed on the earlier cert.

Thanks to all who've replied. I've now marked this thread as completed.

Gadget
Title: Re: Same couple married each other twice within 18 months
Post by: Gadget on Friday 17 August 18 18:47 BST (UK)
Just to say that I received the June 1925 marriage cert today and it was a registry office marriage. I didn't recognise the witnesses as family. Their addresses were the same as the Dec 1926 CofE marriage. The Registry Office was 6 miles from the village where the couple lived.

I think it was most likely that they may have married secretly and hurriedly (maybe a pregnancy that ended in a miscarriage) but possibly didn't live together. They then married 'properly' as Melbell suggested.

Interestingly, their daughter never mentioned this (would she have known  :-\  ). I'll now contact a cousin (grt niece of the groom) to see if her father mentioned this to her.

Gadget