RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Ashnz on Friday 10 August 18 02:36 BST (UK)
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Hello,
On the website: Find My Past I found in a search a Land Record attributed to Hans Prebensen in 1882 when my ancestors were living in Greytown.
I have a ancestry.com account but not for Find my Past. So my question is: Will a land record tell me exactly where they lived in Greytown? (Is it worth it for me paying for a short subscription?)
Thank you for your time. Any help, no matter how big or small, is kindly retrieved and appreciated.
Have an enjoyable weekend,
Ashley
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Hi,
I would contact Archives New Zealand as I suspect that what you require is somewhere in that system. Much of what they hold is searchable on line under "Deeds" but some guidance is possibly required as to how to set about doing this.
http://archives.govt.nz/visit/contact
Minniehaha.
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The entry has very little extra information
His name the date 1882
Address Greytown
Borough name Greytown
Borough value 100
Total value 100
Country New Zealand
Cheers Janette
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Further to my reply above you can search:
Grantee Nominal Index to Deeds
Grantor Nominal Index to Deeds
which leads you to be able to search-
Deeds Indexes.
Each registry has an Accession code, I only know the one for Otago which is not helpful to you, but Archives can provide you with what you need to know to be able to search.
Minniehaha.
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Thank you Jeanette and Minniehaha for that very helpful information. I will do my best to do as you have suggested.
With warmest regards to you both,
Ashley
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FindMyPast also has this entry in New Zealand postal directories
Country: New Zealand
Publication year: 1915
Image number: 1780
Publication title: New Zealand Post Office Directory 1915 (Wise)
Prebensen Hans farmer, Aria
Prebensen Jno Peter, farmer, Carterton
Cheers Janette
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FindMyPast also has this entry in New Zealand postal directories
Country: New Zealand
Publication year: 1915
Image number: 1780
Publication title: New Zealand Post Office Directory 1915 (Wise)
Prebensen Hans farmer, Aria
Prebensen Jno Peter, farmer, Carterton
Cheers Janette
Hello.
Have you seen these references to one Hans PREBENSON, Aria in the North Island and later years.
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ItemAdvancedSearch.do;jsessionid=A8DB83B0AC1DC06966753F2A37DC8AC1
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=17202738
All but one are held at the Auckland archive, and I could look them up and photograph them on a Friday, if passing on my way North, should you feel they may be of interest to your searches.
They appear to me to be mainly documents [Land Alienation] where Maori interests are seeking general title [converting original early deeds] with the intent to on sell to Hans in 1903.
Now off line untill Tuesday.
Alan.
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I do not specific information relating to Kawhia. From what I discovered Hans acquired land from a farmer there. They both had cases of of land alienation against them.
Hans left Aria in 1917 and moved to Taihape. The last known instance he was recorded alive was a courtcase in 1918. In 1919 investigations were launched to finding him (by his niece Anna Hills in Washington, USA). Hans was not registered for the NZ general election of 1919 (or any subsequent electons that followed). I found him buried with his wife Jane Prebensen at the Hamilton West Cemetery (note: his burial record has no date and no information other than writing the fact he was buried).
My own personal theory is he may have died in the Great Flu Epidemic in November of 1918. I can not think of any other instance that would account for burying someone without at least a date of death or a cause of death.
The poor man had a sad life, his only daughter died in 1897, his wife died in 1916. My own family (my great grandfather and his family) never knew what happened to him.
Thank you everyone for your help and time. If you have any comments you may wish to make of Hans Prebensen's death or any comments you feel are releavant, please do :)
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To Alan (Fresh Fields),
If you are ever at the Auckland Archives and have time to photograph those documents - that would be fantastic :).
So do you think that Hans purchased the land from the local Maori?
Warmest thanks,
Ashley
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It would appear that he was alive in 1919 and that the surname spelling was [at times?] Prebenson.....
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TAIDT19180527.2.21?query=prebenson
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TAIDT19190528.2.2.4?page=2&query=prebenson
Minniehaha.
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More on this family......
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=785573.msg6407561#msg6407561
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=782130.msg6366196#msg6366196
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=604769.msg4542888#msg4542888
Minniehaha.
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I looked into the newspaper article of 1919, from my understanding the notice was used as a way of trying to get Hans to make contact. He was a missing person case for the Police at that time.
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Hello again Ashley.
Just returned from an unsuccessful cattle buying mission in the North.
I see one of my links does not go to the page I had hoped. See if this is any better:-
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ItemAdvancedSearch.do;jsessionid=1DD9380892BE73DA5B0A9562D3E14469
The first entry is to do with some dispute with the local store keeper.
The next few are in regard to land title "alienation" presumably to do with updating the earlier [pre 1871 introduced torrens system of land title registration] land title deeds, often involved with Crown Grants, and land titles involving the Maori Land court.
Land alienation applications were very common around that pre WW1 period, and involved proving title and updating the records to comply with the torrens system. And then record the transfer of ownership, with the title hence forth registered within the torrens system.
The names on the application we recognise as Maori names
I'm no expert on the subject and just now at this late hour have been unable to find one concise account of what the process of "alienation" meant in practical terms with regards to titles.
But it will not be "AGAINST THEM"
Not sure when I will be heading North again as early as Friday, but will add those files to others I wish to research at my first opportunity. Archives are not open on a Saturday.
Alan.
PS. If you can PM me with an email address I can reach you on, I can supply examples from previous searches into land alienation requests. They can contain a lot of interesting detail, including a good range of the postage stamps of the day, due to "stamp duty"
PPS In light of day found the explanation I was seeking. - Alan.
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Thanks for contact details, will supply photos when I have been able to view the Auckland held files. - Alan.
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Greetings.
UP DATE - sorry about the wait.
I've been out of action with both elective hand surgery, then just after being cleared for work, accidental damage to my hands. But this past week took the opportunity to do three days of research at Auckland's Archives NZ branch. Photographing up to 240 pages per day. Quite a mission.
I was finally able to access the file of your interest and would appreciate a PM as to how important this find is to your main research. Do you require just the pertinent facts, or would you like to see the whole file of possibly some 170+ pages. I photographed the whole file when I recognised some of the prominent family names that were assigning their Maori Land entitlements over for Hans to uplift a 21 year lease. Many solicitor's letters and single pages assigning their individual entitlement rights over to the leasing agreement.
Plans etc included.
Alan.
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Hi.
Please advise when first batch of photos has safely arrived, and then I will send the second.
Must to bed.
Alan.
PS. I see an oop's above, in your case the number of photos for your interest is about 70 NOT 170.
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Hi Again.
Final batch of 40 photos sent.
Pleased to hear that you recently were able to visit the land where Han's brother farmed.
Feel free to come back to me if you find more archived material of interest. With some luck the wait well not be so long, now that I'm mobile again. Deep in my own pioneering research, so expect to be back at the Auckland archives every few months.
Alan.
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Edit ed...... I found him buried with his wife Jane Prebensen at the Hamilton West Cemetery (note: his burial record has no date and no information other than writing the fact he was buried)...... :)
NOTE for future reference. Han's surname was variously spelt Prebensen, Prebenson and Preberson by the Hamilton Cemetery Website. While for a period Walter BURROW had quite a bit of undertaking [and cabinet making] as his business, and advertised frequently, but when he went out of business his records were destroyed, and not on sold to a buyer.
Competion was such that by 1918 the competing undertakers started using wooden print blocks for their adds.
Also it would appear that the deaths were not recorded with Birth's Death's and Marriages.
Alan.
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Hello again.
Have been back to the Archives and photographed Han’s State Advances file.
Some of the paperwork covers the same material as previously supplied. A few reveal a little more light on some of the previously supplied legal material. For a period Hans was claiming for reinstatement of his washed out road egress, before he would go out of his way to pay lease and rates dues.
He claimed without egress, he could not generate income, by getting produce to market.
First of two batches of photos on the way to your private email address.
Alan.
PS This appears to complete the coverage of Archives files held at Auckland.