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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: Midase on Saturday 11 August 18 14:33 BST (UK)
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Does anyone know of a resource to find out when a company/business was formed?
I am trying to find out when a company/business was formed but have hit a brick wall for information. I have narrowed it down quite well from Kelly's Directories and old newspaper adverts etc. The name of the company in question is Anderson and Wall of Bridgwater, Somerset. I have one piece of information which says that the company statement declares 1918 as the date established but with no evidence (what does this mean?) I am at a loss as to where this information was sourced. The only person that could have shed light on this has long since died. There are several references that the partnership was dissolved in different years but this seems strange as the partnership continued for some time. The earliest evidence I get is that in a newspaper of 1924 where the advert appears for the first time in July of this year. I know that the proprietors had been trading in their own right.
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Well their own website says they were founded in 1918.
They don’t appear to be a limited company so records may be few and far between.
I assume you don’t want to buy a scooter ;D ;D
Mike
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See these entries in The London Gazette
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/notice?text=Anderson+and+Wall&service=all-notices
Stan
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My late husband and I had a partnership with a third party.
It appears to me that the business in question did trade for a very long time. Partnerships are dissolved when one partner retires, or when one partner wants to strike out on his/her own and needs money to do so. At that time their accountant would have worked out the value any assets such as machinery, cars, premises, the value of the stock; how much stock had been paid for; and how much stock had not been paid for; and how much money was owed to each partner. The retiring partner would have pocketed any money due to him/her.
There could be two scenarios with the partner who wished to carry on with the business. His new partner might be a son, nephew/other relation of the original retiring partner and the business name could still be used. I had an uncle and aunt who bought a corner shop in the 1930s when the original family retired- the shop business had such a good name in the area that my relatives chose not to use their own family name above the doorway.
When a partnership dissolves the partners are personally responsible for paying all of the debts of the business and you can see in the Gazette that this is promised..
I see the partnership eventually became a Limited Liability company, which is what happens when a company prospers and the owners need to protect themselves against future events . They would have had to go before a legal actuary to swear that they would abide by the laws of the land applicable to the Limited Liability regulations of that time. The partners would then become "employees" of their own company (and not liable for company debts) and their designation would be "director", they'd have been advised by their accountant to buy X number of shares in the new LL company at a value of X (by buying shares the new directors will be held persoally responsible for settling a percentage of any company debts if the company folded at an time)..
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See these entries in The London Gazette
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/notice?text=Anderson+and+Wall&service=all-notices
Stan
Thank you, Stan, but I have already seen these. It's the 1918 formation I cannot find.
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My late husband and I had a partnership with a third party.
It appears to me that the business in question did trade for a very long time. Partnerships are dissolved when one partner retires, or when one partner wants to strike out on his/her own and needs money to do so. At that time their accountant would have worked out the value any assets such as machinery, cars, premises, the value of the stock; how much stock had been paid for; and how much stock had not been paid for; and how much money was owed to each partner. The retiring partner would have pocketed any money due to him/her.
There could be two scenarios with the partner who wished to carry on with the business. His new partner might be a son, nephew/other relation of the original retiring partner and the business name could still be used. I had an uncle and aunt who bought a corner shop in the 1930s when the original family retired- the shop business had such a good name in the area that my relatives chose not to use their own family name above the doorway.
When a partnership dissolves the partners are personally responsible for paying all of the debts of the business and you can see in the Gazette that this is promised..
I see the partnership eventually became a Limited Liability company, which is what happens when a company prospers and the owners need to protect themselves against future events . They would have had to go before a legal actuary to swear that they would abide by the laws of the land applicable to the Limited Liability regulations of that time. The partners would then become "employees" of their own company (and not liable for company debts) and their designation would be "director", they'd have been advised by their accountant to buy X number of shares in the new LL company at a value of X (by buying shares the new directors will be held persoally responsible for settling a percentage of any company debts if the company folded at an time)..
Thank you, Rena. That has made things clearer in this respect. I only wish I could find the information regarding the 1918 formation.
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Well their own website says they were founded in 1918.
They don’t appear to be a limited company so records may be few and far between.
I assume you don’t want to buy a scooter ;D ;D
Mike
Hi Mazi. It is the owners of Anderson and Wall that have approached me regarding the 1918 aspect. All they have to go on is the company statement for 1918 but there are no records to show that this was the actual year they commenced trading. A G Wall was a Motor Cycle agent in his own right up to the commencement of the partnership. Ivan Anderson had his own engineering business. There was a third name involved as partners at one time of William Boxhall. They did, in fact, know one another. William Boxhall was best man to Alfred Wall, and Ivan Anderson's children were attendants.
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Grace's Guide "...is the leading source of historical information on industry and manufacturing in the UK".
https://gracesguide.co.uk
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According to this National Archive webpage, the first line of enquiry should be the local record offices to see if they've got any records or maybe they've been categorised and sent to an archive specialising in (say) road vehicles.
"The majority of historic business and trade records in the UK are held by local record offices. Use the Find an archive tool to find contact details of archives/repositories across the UK. This tool also includes details of some repositories abroad which hold substantial collections relating to British history."
url link :-
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mhv/
Here's another explanatory archive page:-
url link
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mhw/
BTW I've already looked on Grace's Guide and couldn't see anything about the partnership
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Thank you once again Rena but it is a case of, "been there, done it and got the "T" Shirt" Will have to draw a line under it now.
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Hi Mazi. It is the owners of Anderson and Wall that have approached me regarding the 1918 aspect. All they have to go on is the company statement for 1918 but there are no records to show that this was the actual year they commenced trading. .
Is the 1918 company statement the Annual Statement of Accounts provided by the Acountants of the Partnership? I've still got our first ANNUAL Company Statement of Accounts somewhere and I suppose they were hoping a descendant could have what they're looking for.
The Statement I have outlines what trade we were in and states that it is a true reflection of the partnership business for the twelve months ended 31st July. Counting back, this shows that we started trading the previous year on the 1st August.
The first company I ever worked for was started in the 1800s and their company statements reflected that their twelve months of trading ended every 10th October - working back this means they must have officially registered their company 9th October.
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I have found out that the company statement is the current statement and not that of 1918. The confusion comes about because someone else was asked to look at it and they took the information from A&Ws website, which is why they said with no evidence. The person had done a search but came back with the current statement which refers to the 1918 establishment date with no evidence found!!!! The 1918 date is what is being queried but his report on the matter only confused things. I have now asked the owners to look at any documents they have when they purchased the business to see if there is anything at all in there to give a clue.