RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: cassie18 on Tuesday 14 August 18 18:01 BST (UK)
-
There isn't an Old pubs guide as such now as I've mentioned before unless your interest lies in London. I've looked in various places for any mention of The Ship Inn Brotherton. There are 5 publicans from the census but would anyone have any idea how i might find the others in the 1890s
-
Rate books?
-
I could certainly try. They are an avenue I've not so far explored. Thank You.
-
What about Trade Directories for that area?
Just have a look on the Genuki website (I haven't checked) -- but Yorkshire on Genuki is quite useful in that some places show trade directories.
-
Thanks Pennines, I will certainly try that idea as well.
-
Just another thought - - not sure exactly where Brotherton is -- but there are West Yorkshire Alehouse Licences records on Ancestry -- you can find them via the Card Catalague. Having looked though they don't seem to cover Brotherton.
The local archives should have alehouse licenses though, but whether these are by the name of the applicant or simply in batches of licence applications - i@m afraid I don't know.
Might be worth checking with them -- it's finding the right Archives though -- York? Northallerton? Genuki may tell you if you look at Brotherton information.
-
There isn't an Old pubs guide as such now as I've mentioned before unless your interest lies in London. I've looked in various places for any mention of The Ship Inn Brotherton. There are 5 publicans from the census but would anyone have any idea how i might find the others in the 1890s
There are at least 2 sites you could use:
https://deadpubs.co.uk/
http://www.closedpubs.co.uk/
-
Maybe ask here; http://www.pontefractfhs.org.uk/
-
Hi
If I am from West Lothian, am I going to waste my time looking for Brotherton, for you?
Quite happy to tour all the pubs in the region :) :) :) :)
You've put the post in "Common Room",should you have posted in . . . . . Yorkshire?
As implied by other replies?"
Other countries " ?
The (originally) London-based database at Pubshistory.com is a relatively recent website, funded by a private person,
( who is a member of this international website Rootschat.com )
and assisted by a number of itinerant volunteers
( the adjective itinerant is aimed at me )
This IS meant to be a light-hearted response to your original post. :D
Ray
-
Hi again. I've tried Genuki but only same as on Census. I'm going to try the Yorkshire Alehouses suggested by Pennines. To check Ancestry I would have to join again So I will probably try Find My Past first. Thanks for everyone's help.
-
No indeed you are probably not going to however if you were asking something I knew about I would certainly offer to advise. I put my request here as it stated "when you are not sure etc" This is my lighthearted reply. :D
-
Are you talking about Brotherton ( Yorkshire ) or Brotherton ( West Lothian )?
-
I didn't know there was another Brotherton! I'm referring to the one in Yorkshire, its near Pontefract. I've learned something else tonight then.
-
Cassie18
"We" have helped you before "2 1/2 years " ago on the subject of "Old Pubs".
Example
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=739392.msg5856236#msg5856236
Websites change, die, are ressurected.We are still here to help . . . . .
:) Ray
-
Yes Ray I did mention in my initial post that I'd talked about it before. I looked up the replies from back then and followed the links but didnt find this particular pub. I asked again because there is always a chance that somebody already knows about that very pub or knows where I might find it. Please dont for one moment think I'm being lazy as I'd already looked myself and found nothing. The pub index I was talking about in that first post was run by 2 men. It had lots of pubs from all over the UK on the list. I added those i know from my family Selby and Ferrybridge area but I'm talking about many years ago now but cant pin it down to a particular year. Sad its long gone.
-
Just another thought - - not sure exactly where Brotherton is -- but there are West Yorkshire Alehouse Licences records on Ancestry -- you can find them via the Card Catalague. Having looked though they don't seem to cover Brotherton.
The local archives should have alehouse licenses though, but whether these are by the name of the applicant or simply in batches of licence applications - i@m afraid I don't know.
Might be worth checking with them -- it's finding the right Archives though -- York? Northallerton? Genuki may tell you if you look at Brotherton information.
I found my Lancashire innkeepers in Quarter Sessions records in Lancashire Archives by entering the surname on "Advanced Search" form. The recognizances stated pub names.
What about adverts in local newspapers? "Mr John xxx wishes to intimate that he has taken possession of The Brown Cow …".
-
Hi, the Archives were in Wakefield but the building was closed as some things were moving. I will have to check to see what happened. Newspaper search is a good idea, I will try that thanks. Sometimes just putting a surname plus newspapers can bring in surprising results. I found a small accident that way that named 2 relatives i didnt know about as it gave family details.
-
[ Amended ]
Hi
I have trawled 1891 and 1901 for Brotherton ( Yorkshire )
Itemised (by the Census Enumerator) are . . . .
1891
Jolly Sailor Inn
Anchor Inn
Commercial Inn
Three Horse Shoes
"Public House" Highstreet (Stephen Chadwick 73 bBrotherton)
(1881 shows this as "The Ship" run by Stephen Chadwick. He dies 1906? )
(1881 RG11 4586 8 Page10 Brotherton District 8
Schedule line #50 High Street The Ship Stephen Chadwick 60, Lic.vituler, b Brotherton with Wife Ellen 61)
The Fox (?) Inn
The Punch Bowl
1901
Jolly Sailor Inn
Anchor Inn
Commercial Inn
Three Horse Shoes
Limepit Inn
Fox & Commercial Inn
Ray
-
Its a bit of a mystery Ray as I found this on a Brotherton page
The Ship Inn, High Street - recorded in 1822 (Elizabeth Westerby), 1829 / 1834 (John Hodgson), 1841 Census (Maria Hodgson), 1851 Census (Samuel Pickering), 1881 Census (Stephen Chadwick); separate entry to the Ship & Punchbowl
-
Leeds Mercury, 15 Feb.1866: BROTHERTON.-On Monday, Mr. P. G. Skipworth held an inquest at the Ship Inn, Brotherton, on the body of a young man named John Miller, a willow cutter, residing at Brotherton. About five o'clock on Monday ...
Yorkshire Evening Post (Leeds), 23 Aug.1894: BREWSTER SESSIONS. ...application before the Bench ... one for the transfer [of?] the licence of the Ship Inn, Brotherton, from William Henry Oates to Stephen Chadwick, which was granted.
Leeds Mercury, 8 Apr.1898: William Henry Oates, Ship Inn, Brotherton, near Pontefract, and formerly of Rotherham, said that when he went Brotherton five of the eight public-houses were tied …
Sheffield Daily Telegraph, 8 Apr.1898: William Henry Oates, Ship Inn, Brotherton, near Pontefract, and formerly of Rotherham, attributed _ downfall _ trade, keen competition, and to having a ...
-
1871 RG10 4631 123 P10 District 8
Schedule line #54.
High Street (premises unnamed by Enumerator)
Stephen Chadwick 50 Licensed Victualler born Brotherton
Ellen wife Emily dau
-
1861 RG9 3434 11 P16 District 8
Schedule line #111.
High Street (premises unnamed by Enumerator)
Samuel Pickering 56 Publican born Brotherton
Easter wife 31
Jane Hodgson dau 13
-
Wow Both of those are very interesting. Thank you very much. Seeing newspapers are mentioned I found a piece about a relative of mine who turned out to be a multiple bigamist, I'd no idea. All the ladies he married had said he was a real gentleman. It did make me smile. This was just 1 of many from a random search on Google.
-
"1881 Census (Stephen Chadwick); separate entry to the Ship & Punchbowl"
?
There is a Stephen Chadwick in Brotherton, son of John, "50" years younger than the publican.
-
An interesting one Ray.
-
A chap has done a comprehensive investigation into licensed premises in and around my home town and placed it online at
http://chorleyinnsandtaverns.blogspot.com/
He has used any number of sources, and makes them obvious in the narrative, but newspapers are the best bet of filling in the gaps between censuses. Have a look and see the sort of thing which are around.
I've helped him sort out some of the details of pubs where my relatives have been involved, and their relationships.
-
Thanks to everyone who contributed. It was Stephen Chadwick, son of John that has a connection for me. I wouldn't have found him without your help.
-
Re reply #25 andrewalston. Similar in Preston and Manchester. I contributed a few things to the Preston one when I came across anything (mostly crimes).
-
Cassie -- I thought you were looking for ALL the old pubs in Brotherton, not just one where a particular ancestor had lived. So sorry if I misunderstood your original message.
Maiden Stone -- your message about picking things up from the newspapers made me laugh - it was the words 'mostly crimes'!
-
Its easy to get mistaken Pennines, I do it all the time, my brain goes slower these days ;D
-
Thanks Cassie --- that's reassuring. In my case I suspect it's age-related brain shrinkage!
-
Ha Ha mine too. I've got all kinds of age related stuff. People say being old is no joke, perhaps not but I don't fancy the alternative.
-
Maiden Stone -- your message about picking things up from the newspapers made me laugh - it was the words 'mostly crimes'!
It's not my fault if my ancestors visited less salubrious pubs. To be fair, one of them was a victim of crime. He was a miltary bandsman. He went to a pub wearing his uniform and carrying his instrument. According to the newspaper, he fell into conversation with 2 young women. While he was distracted (I wonder how?) one stole his instrument and left. The pair of young women, doubtless well-known to local constables, were apprehended.
A member of my innkeeping family bought a stolen horse from a customer. The horse-thief had held up the owner on the highway and galloped off on the horse.
Among "crimes" I was including illegal union strike meetings held at inns and attended by my trades- unionist 3xGGF. A young man who had refused to join a strike was attacked on the way home after leaving a meeting ( 2 crimes in one evening). The pub landlady provided an alibi for my ancestor and his 3 mates.
The police lock-up was in the same yard as one of the most notorious pubs in town mid 19thC. Constables visited the pub to arrest thieves spending money they'd stolen the same day, then escorted them a few yards to the lock-up.
-
There isn't an Old pubs guide as such now as I've mentioned before unless your interest lies in London. I've looked in various places for any mention of The Ship Inn Brotherton. There are 5 publicans from the census but would anyone have any idea how i might find the others in the 1890s
I also thought it was pubs in general rather than a particular publican that was of interest ::)
-
Oh dear, so as my mother would have said "clear as mud". Sorry if I mislead anyone but I did say The Ship Inn Brotherton. I have just found a family tree from Brotherton which shows The Chadwicks so this fills in some gaps.
-
Oh dear, so as my mother would have said "clear as mud". Sorry if I mislead anyone but I did say The Ship Inn Brotherton. I have just found a family tree from Brotherton which shows The Chadwicks so this fills in some gaps.
Just re-read original post and it's fairly clear, although I didn't know where Brotherton is.