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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: Jessies Mum on Wednesday 15 August 18 09:52 BST (UK)
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Born 1883 East Indies - Died 1956, Crail
Married Contessa Beatrice Theresa Sant Cassia (born 1885) in 1908 - two daughters Beatrice born 1908 and Margaret born 1929 that i know of.
Remarried Euphemia Will Patrick (born 1896, died 1966) in 1931.
Any advise as to what happened to wife number one or his daughters would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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Where was the 1931 marriage - East Indies or Scotland?
Big age gap between the 2 daughters - presume first marriage plus daughters births were East Indies
Any idea as to when he arrived in Scotland?
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There are several trees on Ancestry. One says daughter Beatrice was born in Malta and died in 1939..
There are several discrepancies in the info on the trees. eg Marriage was 1907 in Malta
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Hi CaroleW,
I have the 1931 marriage taking place in Bombay, India.
Daughter Beatrice was born in 1908 in Malta - I have no details about daughter Margaret's birth.
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"Married Contessa Beatrice Theresa Sant Cassia (born 1885) in 1908"
Where did Charles & Contessa marry, what was his occ. & who were his parents?
"two daughters Beatrice born 1908 and Margaret born 1929 that i know of"
Where were Beatrice & Margaret born?
What info. (confirmed) do you already have, tracing back to save duplication off effort but please include when each were last located whether on a census, witness on marriage, informant on death &/or any other info. significant?
Annie
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Hi Rosinish,
Charles Edmund Fowler Wyncoll's parents were Charles Edward Wyncoll and Mary Johanna Fowler.
Charles EF was in the Military in 1905 and based in Malta (source: UK Harts Annual Army List). In 1911 English Census, Charles and Contessa Beatrice are married with 3 years completed at the time of the census. As stated previously, daughter Beatrice was born in Malta. Other than a possible birthdate of Margaret (born 1929 - which is quite likely incorrect), I have no information around daughter Margaret.
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Ok, but where was the birth place of Contessa on the 1911?
Where did you find Margaret being their child?
Without info. to guide people, therese's little chance of help.
What info. do you have on Margaret to say she's a daughter of Charles & Contessa?
Do you have a marriage/death or anything else with any info. to help?
Can you please give all known info. you have on Margaret to help your search?
Annie
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Hi Rosinish
http://www.maltagenealogy.com/libro%20d'Oro/sant1.html
This is the website where I gathered the information from - I hope it is of help.
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Charles EDWARD Fowler Wyncoll RE
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28254/page/3969/data.pdf
or were there two of them?
Do you have his death certificate?
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Some of the trees are mixing up father and son?
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http://www.maltagenealogy.com/libro%20d'Oro/sant1.html
This is the website where I gathered the information from - I hope it is of help.
I had a check using keyboard Ctrl & F to find the people you named however;
"Contessa Beatrice Sant Cassia, (1885-, married 1907 to Capt. Charles Fowler Wyncoll, R.E,"
I'm afraid, I don't follow this lead very well as it's not answering the questions I asked.
Do you have your own proof/verification on who you're researching with names/dates/places you can follow up on from a ground source such as as marriage/death or any other as the link is not any proof to me although maybe others may think so as it's too complicated without direct/positive links/proof...this is from someone elses research with no sources/resources i.e. nothing solid to follow.
You need to do a timeline of what you have (with verification) from yourself back to Charles E F Fowler with his occupation from certs. (marriage/death) or any other with any other details e.g. info. from docs. pertainng to dau Beatrice ?
What proof do you have of Margaret being a daughter?
Do you have anything on Charles' parentage etc. from his marriage?
How did you arrive at C E F Wyncoll?
Annie
Add, Crossed posts WO, I was typing when you posted! ;)
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I'm guessing this is the daughter
Beatrice Elizabeth Mary Wyncoll born 1909 in Malta showing in a census record (compared to Elizabeth Fowler Wyncoll on Libro d'Oro)
the mother is also known as Beatrice Wyncoll
So which one actually died in 1939?
1911 on Familysearch
Charles Edward Fowler Wyncoll born Shajehampin India Resident
Beatrice Wyncoll born Citta Vseechia Malta Resident
Beatrice Elizabeth Mary Wyncoll born Citta Vseechia Malta Resident
and his birth on Familysearch
Charles Edward Fowler Wyncoll
India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
birth: 27 May 1883
christening: 22 July 1883 Shakjahanpur, Bengal, India
residence: 1883 Bengal, India
father: Charles Edward Wyncoll
mother: Mary Johanna
So the father and son have the same name?
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Hi all ,
Valuation Rolls(SP) -
Lieutenent Colonel C E F Wyncoll
Proprietor
House Garden and Croft , 30 Nethergate South , Crail , 1935(nothing before 1935).
Probate -
Charles Edward Fowler Wyncoll of Ferncroft 30 Nethergate Crail , 26th died Sept 1956 Perth Royal Infirmary , Confirmation of Euphemia Will Patrick or Wyncoll widow. Sealed London January(1957).
Would that mention any children ?
Patrick or Wyncoll Euphemia Will of Ferncroft Nethergate Crail , died 3rd of August 1966 Leven , Confirmation of [ 2 Patrick daughters ? living ? ]. Sealed London October(1966).
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
ev
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1901
WYNCOLL CHARLES 23
903/S 12/ 19 Shipping - Merchant Navy
Deaths (both downloadable) scotlandspeople
WYNCOLL CHARLES E F 73
1956
387/ 443 Perth
WYNCOLL EUPHEMIA WILL 71
1966
456/ 59 Scoonie (Fife)
I wonder who registered Euphemia's death?
Annie
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Marriages
WYNCOLE CHARLES EDWARD & PATRICK EUPHEMIA WILL 1931
056/AF 190 Service Returns
Not sure what's going on here as they all have the same reference no....
WYNCOLE CHARLES EDWARD & SUTHERLAND IAN DURWARD 1931 ???
056/AF 190 Service Returns
WYNCOLE CHARLES EDWARD & ANNETTE SYLVIA KATHLEEN 1931
056/AF 190 Service Returns
Annie
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[ 2 Patrick daughters ? living ? ]
Now think Euphemia's Probate refers to her sisters :-\
Marjorie Patrick or Robertson and Kathleen Rhind Patrick or Aitchison
Possible births for the sisters in Collessie Fife around 1900 :-\
ev
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Marriages
WYNCOLE CHARLES EDWARD & PATRICK EUPHEMIA WILL 1931
056/AF 190 Service Returns
Not sure what's going on here as they all have the same reference no....
WYNCOLE CHARLES EDWARD & SUTHERLAND IAN DURWARD 1931 ???
056/AF 190 Service Returns
WYNCOLE CHARLES EDWARD & ANNETTE SYLVIA KATHLEEN 1931
056/AF 190 Service Returns
Annie
The "Service Return" part is refering to overseas marriage in India of a soldier on active duty, the other names are people on the same register in India. The data was then sent to England.
Family Search: location of Marriage India
Charles Edward Wyncoll
Father of groom
India Marriages, 1792-1948
child: Charles Edward Fowler Wyncoll
other: Euphemia Will Patrick, Samuel Patrick
Ian Sutherland married Sylvia Annette in Karachi India 1931 he was also a British Soldier.
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In all reality Beatrice Sant Cassia is probably buried in Malta in a family vault/area after all she was a noble of Malta.
Think we have cleared up that the father and son were both called Charles Edward Fowler Wyncoll from the Scottish Valuation.
The daughter Beatrice appears on one English census, no sign of Margaret?
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Thanks Wo!
I didn't have time to try & work out the marriage thing as I had to go out although I did wonder if all were on same page but couldn't fathom the layout, the fact Charles' name was on all 3 i.e. you've enlightened me! ;)
1st time I've seen that sort of layout which is different from the English with all 4 surnames & who each may have married...good learning process!
[ 2 Patrick daughters ? living ? ]
Now think Euphemia's Probate refers to her sisters :-\
Marjorie Patrick or Robertson and Kathleen Rhind Patrick or Aitchison
Possible births for the sisters in Collessie Fife around 1900 :-\
Very strange Ev don't you think, especially if there were 2 daughters?
J Mum, "two daughters Beatrice born 1908 and Margaret born 1929 that i know of"
"I have no details about daughter Margaret's birth"
What can you tell us of Margaret please?
Annie
Add, There's a huge gap between 1908 & 1929 for those births, is it possible Margaret was actually the daughter of Beatrice who would have been c21 yrs old in 1929 :-\
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Wo...
"Charles Edward Fowler Wyncoll
India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
birth: 27 May 1883
christening: 22 July 1883 Shakjahanpur, Bengal, India
residence: 1883 Bengal, India
father: Charles Edward Wyncoll
mother: Mary Johanna
So the father and son have the same name?"
It appears the 'father' doesn't share the middle name 'Fowler' as Mary Johanna (mother) of CEFW, her m/s was Fowler.
This from Ev is likely son born 27 May 1883 rather than father;
"Valuation Rolls(SP) -
Lieutenent Colonel C E F Wyncoll
Proprietor
House Garden and Croft , 30 Nethergate South , Crail , 1935"
J Mum,
Which daughter are you directly descended from?
Plenty of info. here which I haven't gone through;
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mj2/
Annie