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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: lordcobb on Friday 17 August 18 11:59 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
Just wondered if anyone has had success with searching on the London Gazette website?
My grandad Cyril Edward Bush was awarded the oak leak - mention in despatches in 1941 and I'm struggling to find anything.
It was for helping during the bombing at Devonport docks on the night of 21 April 1941.
Any search tips would be greatly received.
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Do you have a service number - searches on the number alone often work better that the name or variants. (None of the 143 Bush hits Apr-Dec 41 are him).
MaxD
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Hi MaxD,
Service number at the time I believe was - MX 80264 (Later - P/ KX 118358)
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Lemons for both!
Devoid of ideas!
MaxD
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At best he's just likely to be named. I reckon you need to seek out the Dispatch from the officer commanding the dockyard - it'll be somewhere in the National Archives.....
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Thank's anyway, I have his medals, with the oak leaf attached. Just didn't have any "paperwork" to go with them.
Would there be anything on his medal card?
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On his service record which is still with MOD and you'd have to apply and pay for it . Not sure whether RN use medal cards.
MaxD
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Two pieces at TNA which maybe of help.
ADM358/3860
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C16380951
ADM199/655
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4121009
You would need to visit to view.
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Just to add; I did find my father's entry in the London GAzette for his 'mentioned in despatches', but all it gave was a very,very long list of just the names of those who had been so mentioned - nothing else - no reason for the award etc.
I also got his war record (Air force). Again, it states he was mentioned in despatches, but again no reason given.
I still have to track that down, wherever that may be!
Good luck
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It is of course disappointing even if you find your man's name to find no reason behind the award of an MiD.
This example page from a 1945 London Gazette https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/36979/supplement/1385
illustrates that in many cases the "mention" did not result from one specific act but was for sustained activity over a period thought worthy of recognition just short of a medal. Note particularly the MiD to Lt Cdr Richards covering his duty over an almost 6 month period.
In very crude terms, the process within the chain of command was for recommendations to be submitted up the chain, not all of which resulted in an award and often in response to a request from the top level for names to be passed upwards. The awards on the left for the anti U Boat operations demonstrate clearly the "hierarchy" of awards. In one sense, the fact of the publication of the "mention" should be seen as the award.
Now and again a unit war diary or squadron operations book would hold a clue, (although not necessarily the name) in descriptions of operations of the period. Linking with other men who received higher level awards at the same time sometimes gives an idea. (In lordcobb's case, I do hope the documents cited by the ever informative Seaweed have something).
None of the foregoing is to take away anything from the devotion to duty of men MiD but to attempt to explain why the search for a reason in military documentation more often than not will yield no result.
MaxD
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Thanks for the insight MaxD.
Lots of information on the page you posted of reasons why people were Mentioned in Despatches.
This is all it says at the start of the entries in which my father appears - some 2 pages later, along with dozens of non-officers.
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So why were reasons given in the example and not in your case. I don't know but I am sure the answer is not simple.
Did the LG always get the background?
If they did, was there a policy about what was omitted and when - was it a number's game?
Did the three services approach the situation differently?
Did the system differ year on year?
Worth noting that in ealier times, the commander's despatch itself was published.
It may be that someone has done the research necessary to provide a definitive answer.
Why we can't find lordcobb's man - frustrating.
maxD
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I can't see anything on the medal card - however isn't quite right as he was awarded the Burma star and it isn't on there.
I've an account of his time at Devonport as a cook to Admiral Dowding - a small section about the MID below.
"In the Royal Naval Barracks I was officially transferred to the Engine-room Branch, a new official number and a different uniform. I was drafted to H.M.S. CABOT at Bristol, then after six weeks training I was transferred to Portsmouth Division, much against my will. I became the only one of my 24 relations who served in the Royal Navy to serve as a Pompey rating. Whilst at Portsmouth I received a letter from Admiral Dowding saying, my name along with others had been mentioned in a Special Order of the Day for: - “courageous behaviour and devotion to duty during the recent air raids on Plymouth and Devonport.” The Order was to be posted at all Dockyard Gates and notice boards and he congratulated me accordingly. I was very pleased to see that the Royal Marine Policeman, who was with me on The Terrace roof, was also mentioned.
A draft to H.M.S. BERWICK and ten months on the Russian Convoys brought me back to Devonport – 1942. the “BERWICK” had a three month refit and I was able to visit the Admiral and his wife several times before leaving for the Arctic again."
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Forgive me but that isn't a Mention in Despatches.
It was/is quite normal for a commander to publish special orders within his command highlighting some special effort by someone.
Do you have his full record? You say there is no record of his Burma Star - which ship(s) did he serve in there and when?
MaxD
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Hi Max - I've got what my grandfather told me over the years and thought it was - especially with the oak leaf.
I have posted his record in a previous post - happy to do again. I am the holder of his medals - I have them next to me - oak leaf in all.....
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Caveat - army is my main area so my searches may be off (and if so apologies in advance) but the only vessel/shore establishment that is in the Far East I believe is Braganza which was the Bombay Naval Base. The eligibility criteria for the Burma Star excluded the western side of India
Royal Navy and Merchant Navy personnel qualified through service in an area restricted to the Bay of Bengal and enclosed by a line running from the southernmost point of Ceylon for a distance of 300 miles south, then to a point 300 miles west of the southernmost point of Sumatra and continuing east to the western side of the Sunda Strait, including the Strait of Malacca.
There is no trace of an MiD or Burma Star.
Your call.
MaxD