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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Limerick => Topic started by: catrobson1987 on Friday 17 August 18 16:34 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find information on John Wilson and Ellen Heffernan. They were married and had their first child Stephen Wilson in 1871 in Tipperary. They lived in Limerick for some time and had other children before returning to Tipperary in 1889 and having their youngest son Michael Wilson - who is my great grandfather. Only Ellen appears on the 1901 census living with her children in Tipperary but no record of John at this time so i am unsure if he died. Ellen does not appear on the 1911 census so i am guessing she died before then. If anyone can help i would really appreciate it. This family is such a mystery
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birth of John jr 1876 father a Carpenter
no 16
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03063/2122887.pdf
death of John Wilson at the Asylum 1908 from T B age 61 a Carpenter
145
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05492/4538547.pdf
family 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Tipperary_West_Urban/Lane_North_of_William_O_Brien_Street_/1720676/
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Thank You, I have been able to find all of this information along with the other children birth and baptism records.
I am struggling to find John and Ellens birth records and their marriage records.
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apologies some duplication with dathai
LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05578/4566847.pdf) #491 to death record of Ellen WILSON
She died on Oct 10 1905 aged 65; shown as married to John, implying he was still alive
For information and to help in searching -
LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Tipperary_West_Urban/Lane_North_of_William_O_Brien_Street_/1720676/) to 1901 census for Ellen WILSON and family
at house 8 in Lane North of William O'Brien Street. (Tipperary West Urban, Tipperary)
I cannot see a match for the marriage of John WILSON & Ellen HEFFERNAN
nor a birth/baptism record for Stephen WILSON
There is a marraige on Oct 03 1864 in Cashel, Co. Tipperary LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/195ff616208770?b=https%3A%2F%2Fcivilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fcivil-perform-search.jsp%3Fnamefm%3Dellen%26namel%3Dheffernan%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D1864%26yyto%3D1864%26type%3DM%26submit%3DSearch)
of a John WILLIAMS & Ellen HEFFERNAN which could be a mis-transcription on one site as the original is not yet online
Births/Baptisms
1871 Stephen
Sep 28 1873 James LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1873/03167/2161717.pdf) #9; d.May 04 1881 LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06418/4843509.pdf) #407; died age 7
Mar 08 1876 John LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1876/03063/2122887.pdf) #16
Sep 29 1878 Catherine LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02936/2076048.pdf) #401
Sep 30 1881 Michael LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1881/02804/2029191.pdf) #59
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Ellen died 1905
491
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05578/4566847.pdf
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wonder why James 1881 death is recorded in male industrial school
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right hand side under Septem 1864 25th Boherlahan
John Williams to Ellen Heffernan
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632661#page/143/mode/1up
or different date
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FG8Y-9J6 both fathers were Edmond
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195 here Bridget Williams 1864
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1864/03605/2329635.pdf
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Thank You, I have been able to find all of this information along with the other children birth and baptism records.
I am struggling to find John and Ellens birth records and their marriage records.
These links may have been posted by dathai to assist the rest of us. It's often helpful for us to look at the relevant records for ourselves before trying to find other information. It also verifies that we are looking for the right family. Only yesterday I found 2 families on 1901 census with the same surname in a townland, each with a father Henry and daughter Bridget of similar ages. It's better to be sure from the start.
Births of John and Ellen pre-date civil registration.
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Have you searched for Ellen's surname as Heffron, Effron or Everan? I've seen these variations of Heffernan, admittedly in English records. Ellen might have been Helena in baptism register.
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The death of James 1881 in an industial school maybe a story within itself.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06418/4843509.pdf
suggest you look at prison register's or petty sessions,i have not got access to paid sites.
When the prison registers were online some years ago on Family Search i found one of my great grand fathers was in prison in Wexford 1900 he got a month's hard labour for neglect of his children,the result of this was that 2 of his children were sent to industrial school's while he was in prison as his wife was ill in an institution,they unfortunately had to stay there till they were 16.
From the prison register i got his place of birth in Ballywilliam,Wexford circa 1855 and then a fellow RootsChatter found he was back and forth to court being pursued for upkeep of his children while they were in the industrial schools till they were 16.
So you never know what you may uncover or the circumstances.
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Maiden Stone and dathai's suggestions are very good
You have proven information, and to work back, I would start with these actual facts.
Looking at the 1901 census
Shown first I would presume Stephan to be the eldest
John shown second is shown as 23 but was in fact 25; DoB Mar 08 1876
Stephen is shown as 25 but was probably older
The gap was probably more than 2 years as James was born on Sep 28 1873
You originally stated Stephen was born in 1871 in Tipperary
Have you a civil birth or baptism record for Stephen who is the known eldest child?
Logically then his parents marriage would be before this
Sometimes when we are familiar with all the names in our quest we forget others aren't!
I'll look at some records and see if I can find anything more about young James
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just to note it took them 6 months to register James death in 1881 ?
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Have you considered BMDs and census in Britain? A possible reason for a husband or son missing from Irish census is that he had crossed the Irish Sea.
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Some more surname variations:
From Lancashire Online Parish Clerks:
Effran, Efferan, Hefferan, Hefferman, Heffernan, Hefernan, Heffnan, Heffernane, Hofferan, Heffer, Herferan, Herffen, Haffarnan, Hafferman, Hefferin, Heffernon, Heffern and Haphian ( couldn't pronounce r?).
It was obviously a name which caused confusion. There were notes in 2 registers:
"Surname corrected from Heffern"
"Surname was written as Alford, then Herford before being corrected to Herferan."
As well as many of the above, these were from Lancashire BMD:
Hevern, Hefrin, Heyfrian, Heveran, Havaren.
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right hand side under Septem 1864 25th Boherlahan
John Williams to Ellen Heffernan
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632661#page/143/mode/1up
I can read " John Williams P ____ certified by Rev Thos _____ PP(?) married by Rev Wm (?) _____ in presence of Mary McGrath _ Ellen Hoffernan 1.0.0"
Was Ellen Hoffernan the bride or a witness or both? Did "P" after Williams mean parish? All I'm certain about is that John Williams was bridegroom and the wedding cost £1.
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thank you all for your help
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You're welcome catrobson1987
Is this Stephen's birth registered as WALSH? LINK (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03273/2199547.pdf) #281
This would imply that their surname was sometimes altered beyond normal spelling variations.
An investment in obtaining the actual marriage certificate from 1864 of Williams/Heffernan may be worthwhile.
Also note the informant was a Johanna HEFFERNAN - no relationship was given but it is another name to save for comparison purposes while searching
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research has been painfully slow. Taking the information from the 'assumed' marriage certificate for John and Ellen i have tried to search for Edmond Wilson and Edmond Heffernan. The Heffernan search has proven more fruitful than the Wilson search.
I am completely stuck on Wilson! I have found a marriage license for a Edmond Wilson and Maria Grant for 1838 and a record for 5 Sept 1838 for the actual marriage but there is absolutely no further information other than being married in St Georges district of Dublin. I know from DNA records that there are traces to this area. ::)