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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: LizG56 on Sunday 19 August 18 07:42 BST (UK)
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This is a request following on from another thread about Jane Anderson.
Jane Anderson (1823 - 1867) married John Gillespie (1827 - 1894). John was her third husband and when she married him, in 1855, she already had a daughter, Jane Christina Anderson Taylor, born in Scotland 28 July 1847.
John and Jane Anderson had other children, two of whom survived; Peter Gillespie and Jane Isabella Gillespie. I can find plenty of information on these two children (they are my family so it has been easy) but nothing about Jane Christina Anderson Taylor until she marries James Henry Dickinson in Castlemaine in October 1876. From that point her own family is available on Ancestry.
Jane Christina would have been about 20 years old when her mother died.
Jane Christina inherits nothing from the Gillespie side of the family but does inherit from her uncle Caleb Anderson.
My questions are;
What generally happened to children of previous marriages? Did they stay with the mothers new family or were they sent to other family members?
Given the Scottish naming protocol, and the fact that both John and Janes mothers were called Jane, would it be normal for both daughters to be called Jane? The second daughter Jane was known as Isabella but Jane Christina was known as Jane as well as Jeannie and Jenny.
More importantly can anyone point me in another direction to find more information to fill in the gaps?
Regards, Liz
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Hi there,
So Jane's daughter was 20 when her mum died in 1867, Do you know if this daughter migrated on same voyage as her mum?
Re same names for several children... One of my ancestors was John. His first wife was Mary, and their first child was Eliza. Mary died, John remarried, the second wife's name was Eliza. John and Eliza had a daughter, and they named her Eliza. John's first daughter was raised by her step mum. So, in the household of John, there were three with given name Eliza, and each had John's surname too. .... It was SMITH ... this in NSW in the 1870s. Can you imagine if John wanted to shout out to one of them .... all three may have come running ... or perhaps all three ignored him :)
JM
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Do you have the family's immigration record?
Have you located Jane Christina and other family on the Scottish censuses? Depending on when she emigrated she may be on the 51, 61 and 71.
I've heard of children being given the same name as a living sibling.
Regarding what happened to children of previous marriages ... there could be any number of scenarios - maybe the child stayed with mother and her second family, sometimes they went to grandparents or other relatives .... perhaps even sent to the workhouse, or off to school, depending on circumstances. Unless you can find some documentation it is impossible to guess.
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Thank you for your quick replies.
Sorry, I should have provided more information. Yes Jane Christina migrated with Jane and her father James Taylor. Her father died here and Jane Anderson married again, that husband died very soon after that and she then married John Gillespie in country Victoria.
Interesting having a number of people in the same house with the same name. I can't imagine that.
I have letters written by Peter Gillespie and his family, and whilst he mentions his sister Isabella he never mentions Jane Christina.
I just thought I would have found something in the paper when Jane (Anderson, Taylor, McKay) Gillespie died but there is no acknowledgement from her first daughter.
Thank you again, Liz
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Can you please name the three marriages of Jane...nee.......Anderson?
John GILLESPIE is the third husband? Children to this couple have Jane ANDERSON mother?
BDM VIC marriage
1855 / 612 GILLESPIE John m. ANDERSON Jane
BDM VIC death
1867 / 3982 GILLESPIE Jane parents Anderson Allan / Jane (Unknown)
at MONT age 44
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Jane Anderson was married to James Brand Taylor in Scotland. They had 2 children, Jane Christina Anderson Taylor and Allan Anderson Taylor. This family migrated from Scotland to Victoria Australia in 1850. In 1850 both James and his son died.
Jane married James McKay in 1853 and on 13 May 1853 James McKay died, drunk, captain of a boat, The Sea, that 'crashed', sank, attempting to go out through heads of Port Phillip Bay. (see the post called 'It's a treasure hunt, help me find Jane.'
I would like to find out some information about her little girl who doesn't show up anywhere from the time her mother married John Gillespie in 1855, until she gets married in 1876.
Any help gratefully received.
Rgds Liz
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She is mentioned here, 1st column:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article88240742
Jamjar
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You are without information about Jane Christina from 1855 until her marriage in 1876.
You say her mother Jane Anderson remarried in 1855 - what information do you have about Jane Christina in 1855?
If Jane Christina was born in 1847, went to Australia in 1850 and married in 1876, it is not surprising that there is nothing to be found. Is there anything in particular you are hoping to find?
There are often huge gaps in our knowledge of our ancestors whereabouts.
Added: I was going to suggest checking Trove, but see Jamjar has found mention of her. :)
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She is mentioned here, 1st column:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article88240742
Jamjar
Thank you so much. I can't tell you how many times I've trawled through Trove, and I clearly missed that one.
By the way the Rylands mentioned are Jane Christinas relatives.
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You are without information about Jane Christina from 1855 until her marriage in 1876.
You say her mother Jane Anderson remarried in 1855 - what information do you have about Jane Christina in 1855?
If Jane Christina was born in 1847, went to Australia in 1850 and married in 1876, it is not surprising that there is nothing to be found. Is there anything in particular you are hoping to find?
There are often huge gaps in our knowledge of our ancestors whereabouts.
Added: I was going to suggest checking Trove, but see Jamjar has found mention of her. :)
It is only recently that I discovered that Jane Christina existed, and that was when I followed up the previous thread I mentioned. I have quite a number letters written by family members and I've used these to fill in a lot of gaps, but there is not one mention of this little girl in any of them.
Jane Christina was 9 when her half brother Peter was born so if she was living with the family surely he would have mentioned her in some of the documentation. Hence my question about what typically happened to children of previous marriages. She is clearly well known to her mothers family but gets no mention in anything relating to the Gillespies.
Perhaps it just 'is what it is' and I'm clutching at straws trying to find out more. I guess I just like a good mystery!!
Rgds, Liz
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She is mentioned here, 1st column:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article88240742
Jamjar
Thank you so much. I can't tell you how many times I've trawled through Trove, and I clearly missed that one.
By the way the Rylands mentioned are Jane Christinas relatives.
So, is it likely that the Rylands and Jane had kept in contact in the years after Jane's mum re-married ... or is it a fluke that the Rylands and Jane were all residing at Loddon and all sought licences at the same time... :)
JM
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She is mentioned here, 1st column:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article88240742
Jamjar
Thank you so much. I can't tell you how many times I've trawled through Trove, and I clearly missed that one.
By the way the Rylands mentioned are Jane Christinas relatives.
So, is it likely that the Rylands and Jane had kept in contact in the years after Jane's mum re-married ... or is it a fluke that the Rylands and Jane were all residing at Loddon and all sought licences at the same time... :)
JM
I found an article in Trove dated 18 May 1885. The article is an insolvency hearing for George Ryland and it indicates that his niece Jane Anderson Taylor held 390 acres of his property along with his sons and daughter. This is what made me think that perhaps Jane Christina had been brought up by her Aunt, Janes sister Christina. She also inherits from her Uncle Caleb Anderson so she must have kept contact with that family.
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There is not a great distance between Elphinstone where the GILLESPIEs were farming and store-keeping, and Castlemaine where George and Christina RYLAND were having two children in 1856 and 1857. It is only 10 or 12 kilometers.
It is easy to imagine the young Jane Christina Anderson TAYLOR moved between her mother's Elphinstone home and that of her aunt (Mrs RYLAND).
Both sisters were busy with young children and she was of a good age to help in a household.
When her mother died, perhaps she settled with her aunt.
When John GILLESPIE died he obviously knew where Jane Christina Anderson TAYLOR stood in her uncle Caleb's will and saw no need to bequeath to her. Also, married daughters EDIT (stepdaughter or not) were often not included in wills.
I do not think it was a sign of ill-feeling.
Sue
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From the certificate of this marriage -
1876 / 4600 TAYLOR Jane Christina Anderson m. DICKINSON James Henry
When and where were they married, and who are the witnesses. Witnesses might be people who were involved in her life.
James Brand TAYLOR, wife Jane nee ANDERSON and children James and Jane.........what ship did they arrive on, 1850?
And Jane ANDERSON had two daughters, both named Jane?
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There is not a great distance between Elphinstone where the GILLESPIEs were farming and store-keeping, and Castlemaine where George and Christina RYLAND were having two children in 1856 and 1857. It is only 10 or 12 kilometers.
It is easy to imagine the young Jane Christina Anderson TAYLOR moved between her mother's Elphinstone home and that of her aunt (Mrs RYLAND).
Both sisters were busy with young children and she was of a good age to help in a household.
When her mother died, perhaps she settled with her aunt.
When John GILLESPIE died he obviously knew where Jane Christina Anderson TAYLOR stood in her uncle Caleb's will and saw no need to bequeath to her. Also, married daughters EDIT (stepdaughter or not) were often not included in wills.
I do not think it was a sign of ill-feeling.
Sue
All this makes very good sense Sue. Thank you for the perspective.
Liz
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From the certificate of this marriage -
1876 / 4600 TAYLOR Jane Christina Anderson m. DICKINSON James Henry
When and where were they married, and who are the witnesses. Witnesses might be people who were involved in her life.
James Brand TAYLOR, wife Jane nee ANDERSON and children James and Jane.........what ship did they arrive on, 1850?
And Jane ANDERSON had two daughters, both named Jane?
I'm unsure of the details of the marriage. The information I have on the marriage was from an article in Trove.
James and Jane Taylor came to Australia on 9 Feb 1850 On board the Zemindar. Arrival in Melbourne 1 Nov 1850?
Yes, Jane had a daughter with John Gillespie called Jane Isabella, know as Isabella, whereas Jane Andersons daughter Jane Christina was known as Jane/Jeannie/Jenny. I found this from Ancestry. John Gillespies mother was Jane and Jane Andersons mother was also Jane so perhaps naming protocols had something to do with this.
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Can you please identify your source for these statements -
"... Yes Jane Christina migrated with Jane and her father James Taylor".
Where are you seeing this?. What ship did they arrive on?
"....... In 1850 both James (Brand TAYLOR) and his son (Allan Alexander TAYLOR) died".
BDM VIC death
1850 / 4822 TAYLOR James Brand parents UKN / UKN died Melbourne age 27
Can you please identify the death of the son.
Did Jane Christina TAYLOR possibly arrive later than her parents, and in the care of other family members to Melbourne?
Do you have death certificate for Jane DICKINSON to see how "years in the colony" are recorded?
1929 / 6925 DICKINSON Jane Christina Anderson parents TAYLOR James Brand / Jane (Anderson)
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Can you please identify your source for these statements -
"... Yes Jane Christina migrated with Jane and her father James Taylor".
Where are you seeing this?. What ship did they arrive on?
"....... In 1850 both James (Brand TAYLOR) and his son (Allan Alexander TAYLOR) died".
BDM VIC death
1850 / 4822 TAYLOR James Brand parents UKN / UKN died Melbourne age 27
Can you please identify the death of the son.
Did Jane Christina TAYLOR possibly arrive later than her parents, and in the care of other family members to Melbourne?
Do you have death certificate for Jane DICKINSON to see how "years in the colony" are recorded?
1929 / 6925 DICKINSON Jane Christina Anderson parents TAYLOR James Brand / Jane (Anderson)
This is the information I have used for their arrival.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4774624
The Argus 11 Feb 1850
Shipping Intelligence
Arrived
February .9 'Zemindar,' ship. 716, tons, G. Poole, commander, from Greenock, 1st November. Passengers. - Cabin, ........ Steerage, ........, J. B. Taylor, wife and family,.......,
Rae and Co. Agents.
BDM VIC death - from Ancestry
1850 / 28185 Allan Anderson Taylor age 1
Sorry I don't have a copy of her death certificate.
Liz