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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: BlueFire2 on Friday 24 August 18 02:36 BST (UK)
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Hi
Im looking for documentation to find Herbert Russell Midlane Coombe's place of death.
I have contacted the NSW BDM, and they have no record.
I have contacted Wentworth Shire and he is not listed in their burial records.
I have seen trees that say 1905, but there is no record, that I can find to back this up.
If anyone HAS found a death certificate, I would like a copy.
All trees I have found also say he was named Russell Midlane Coombe and it was changed in documents in Australia to Herbert.
Birth
Jun 1840 • Wilton, Wiltshire, England
Marriage
21 Nov 1863 • Kooringa SA Australia
Bridget Bower
(1836–1917)
Herbert Russell Midane Coombe
Father's Name John Henry Coombe
Spouse Name Bridget Bower
Spouse's Father's Name Thomas Bower
Marriage Date 21 Nov 1863
Marriage Place Kooringa
Registration Place Burra South Australia
His wife death:
Bridget Bower (Power ?)
Death
29 Dec 1917 • Wentworth, New South Wales, Australia
Registered 1918
Buried Wentworth Cemetery
I have located a newspaper article for her death.
CHILDREN
Thomas, Charles and Frances
Thanks
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My ancestors were this man's grandparents John and Jane MIDLANE through a daughter Theresa Caroline. Her sisterFrances Agnes MIDLANE married John Henry COOMBE and they are the parents of the man being sought. His parents lived in England all their lives.
The name on his marriage is Herbert Russell Midlane COOMBE but he was baptised as "Midlane Russell COOMBE" 4 May, 1840; the birth registration uses those names and he was still just Russell Midlane COOMBE (no Herbert) in the 1851 census.
I am not sure of his arrival in Australia.
BlueFire2 can you transcribe the newspaper article for his wife's death, please? Or give the reference for it. I'm wondering if he's mentioned at all.
Judith
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Anyone researching is going to find some inconsistencies. Her marriage age of 27 does not line up with this article. If true, she would have been abt 54 and I find this unlikely. I know some ladies have told porky pies on marriage certificates before, but this is too old.
One of the oldest residents of Wentworth died on the 28th December at the residence of her son in law, Mr Thomas Williams. This was Mrs Bridget Coombe, who was born in 1820, (97 years ago) and arrived in Adelaide when she was 16 years old. She had resided for upwards of half a century in the Darling River district. She leaves behind a daughter (Mrs Thomas Williams) two sons (Mr Chas Coombe, of Menindie, and Mr Tom Coombe, of Burtundy) and about 24 grandchildren.
The son, Thomas death, has Herbert Coombe as the father and Bridget. I did not find births in the index. If memory serves.
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For Judith
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article74807613
Wouldn't surprise me if bdm's were not registered in that area in that era. Very remote.
Cando
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Australian Electoral Roll
NSW Wentworth
COOMBE Bridget Adam Street Domestic Duties.
Cando
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Agree with Cando, long distances to be travelled to register babies, not surprised if many were missed ... floods, droughts, if men were droving then no one available to mind older silbings if mum went alone ....
Some possible sighting for COOMBS ... info on NSW electoral rolls in 19th century was based on verbal info given to the policemen sent to collect for the rolls. Not all policemen had university qualifications for spelling... and not all could read their own scribble ... Coombs v Coombe ... :) Worse still, handwritten lists sent to Sydney for preparation and printing... no internet to check re correct spelling. No funding for morse code telegrams for checking with policeman who may well be on horseback out solving a crime :)
NSW ER 1878 BALRANALD,
John George COOMBS, residence, of Morna, Darling River, Wentworth police district
NSW ER 1870 BALRANALD
John George COOMBS, residence, Morna, Murray River, Wentworth police district
John COOMBS, freehold, Morna, Murray River, Wentworth p.d.
Thomas COOMBS, residence, Ana-branch, Murray River, Wentworth p.d.
NSW ER 1902 RIVERINA, polling at Moorna
NONE with surname COOMBS or similar.
Richard Frederick ROBERTS, station manager, Moorna station. Other localities at that polling place include Wingillie, Frenchman’s Creek, Wangumma, Bunnwungie, Lake Victoria, Horseshoe. There were 31 electors enrolled for the 1902 roll, 11 including females.
IF that's the 'right' COOMBE family ... perhaps look to the Ana-branch locality :)
JM
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Around the times Frances Agnes Coombe was born, they were at Mt Gipps Station 1868. Seems like they spent a fair amount of time on Stations around Broken Hill.
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And that would be the reason the births were not registered.
Cando
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Frances' death registration on https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj shows her place of birth as Broken Hill.
Do you have any of the three chn's marriage certificates? May have status of father ie if deceased.
Cando
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Deleted - posted twice :-[
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Hi. No I don't, as I was doing some research for a distant relative. I contacted her about another branch of my tree. I've always been able to find a reasonable amount of info, without buying certificates, but her tree is difficult, in more than one branch. I havent been able to assist in any part of her fathers tree. I always like to have some sort of solid link connecting one person to the next. Missing death info. Ages not matching up. Name changes. ???
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Around the times Frances Agnes Coombe was born, they were at Mt Gipps Station 1868. Seems like they spent a fair amount of time on Stations around Broken Hill.
I wonder if there's entries recorded in the Kidman papers ... mention of Mt Gipps Station is 'ringing' bells from my Findlay files for that era... These are currently with a family member, who is comparing them with their own research. I will actually be visiting them over the October long weekend, fingers crossed I may have something to share. I am not sure, but I think the station manager was surnamed FINDLAY ...
JM
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Hmmm - this may be a bridge too far - or a leap too far - certainly a long shot, but seems to me a possibility. I'd be delighted if someone can rule this idea out.
Searching on TROVE for the name MIDLANE I came across the death of a Russell MIDLANE, aged 90, in December 1928 (Russell Midlane COOMBE b 1840, so reasonably close); husband of Margaret, father of Florence (Mrs. Sparkes), Bertha (Sister Mary Elizabeth), Ruby (Mrs. Sibley), and Ella.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/16518045
Death registered Sydney 17062/1928 Russell MIDLANE. No parents shown on index.
On looking further I see the marriage of this couple:
3106/1917 Russell MIDLANE, Margaret MOORE, registered at West Wyalong.
I have found possible births of some of the daughters which are a good while before the marriage so it's possible that either or both Russell and Margaret may not have been free to marry earlier, especially given that the family seems to be Roman Catholic. I cannot see any of the daughters' births registered under the name MIDLANE.
Possible birth: MOORE Ruby Lillian 9340/1898 MargaretSydney
Marriages:
6553/1908 James M SPARKES, Florance M MIDLANE, registered WYALONG
7913/1919 Ernest SIBLEY, Bena R MIDLANE, registered REDFERN (comment: Bena, near Wyalong is the name of the place where Russell and Margaret lived)
Deaths - all these have Russell and Margaret listed parents
Florence May SPARKES,4603/1972
Bertha Cathleen MIDLANE, 27807/1950, registered BATHURST
Obit for Bertha as Mother M Elizabeth MIDLANE, aged 64 says she was born at Wilcannia, (thus a birthdate of about 1886)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/161407419
Ella MIDLANE, 11811/1963, reg BATHURST
Bena Ruberta SIBLEY, 21329/1970 reg NEWTOWN
So the death registrations for the daughters recognise Russell and Margaret as their parents and the marriages for Ruby/Bena and for Florence https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/213351322 use the surname MIDLANE.
Now, I may well have missed others, but the earliest references I can see for any Russell MIDLANE are:
Government Gazette mentions
1890 Russell MIDLANE, Cobar
1892 at Condobolin
1896 at Livingstone, Condobolin
1898 contract awarded for mail delivery for Bena and Wamboyne, residence Bena
There are some TROVE mentions of the MIDLANE family at Bena - mostly social snippets.
Could this Russell MIDLANE be Herbert Russell Midlane COMBE? I'm not seeing mention of Herbert COMBE after the birth of his children although death reg indexes for Charles and Thomas list the father as Herbert R M
Charles COMBE 1865 - 1932, Thomas 1866 1942, Frances in 1868.
can anyone help with this?
Sorry it's a bit long-winded but thought I should present all the "evidence" ::)
Judith
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NSW ER 1902 CANOBOLAS, polling Bena.
Margaret MIDLANE, of Bena, Post Mistress
Russell MIDLANE, of Bena, Selector
NONE surnamed COOMBE or variations.
JM
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Russell's death https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/16518045 SMH 20 Dec 1928
Margaret's death https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/16518945 SMH 24 Dec 1928
JM
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Well if he has done the old switcheroo, youd have to leave it to DNA, to be sure. There are loads of people with the same name though. Interesting theory. ;D
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Very few with the name Russell MIDLANE. It would be interesting to see the marriage certificate for Russell and Margaret - if he told the truth - should have info about his father, and any previous marriages or children.
There are some other MIDLANEs in the Wyalong area but they seem to be descended from some Isle of Wight MIDLANEs where the name is quite common.
Judith
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Hi. I meant there are loads of people with the same name generally. I havent done any research on the Midlane name. He is a person that doesnt mind changing his name though. ;D
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NSW death: 14093/1888 Herbert MIDLANE; Father-UNKNOWN RUSSELL; Mother; MARGARET; WILCANNIA
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I would be purchasing two marriage certificates to compare signatures.
Cando
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Brilliant find CupofLife.
So now we have a possible indicator that Russell and Margaret were in Wilcannia in 1888. The obit for their daughter Bertha (Mother M Elizabeth) gives her birthplace as Wilcannia abt 1886. As well as that there's the use of the forename Herbert for this deceased child (presumably a child) which is a possible link to "Russell MIDLANE"s former identity. None of the surnames or forenames are particularly common which, at least, makes the theory plausible.
Cando, I'd buy the certificates myself but one in SA and one in NSW and all you get is a transcription which is nowhere near as helpful. I meant to thank you for the link to the obit as well .
Judith
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FamilySearch has a record for the 1891 NSW Census which has R MIDLANE, householder at Bena, 1 male and 4 females in 'the schedule'.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-896K-NS7L?i=217&cc=2317858
1901 NSW census shows Russell MIDLANE at Bena, 1 male 3 females
But we still don't know if it's the same man as Herbert Russell Midlane COOMBE
Judith
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Judith a copy of the marriage certificate from the SA Registry would include his signature. SAGenealogy hold films of the district registers but will only transcribe. Certificates are expensive in SA.
https://www.cbs.sa.gov.au/births-deaths-marriages/
https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/family-and-community/births,-deaths-and-marriages/family-research
Isn't it possible to get a photocopy of the original marriage certificate in NSW?
Just my two bob's worth :P
Cando
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Thanks Cando. Will see if I can find the church registers somehow.
I don't mean to hijack this thread but it's got me intrigued!
Judith
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That entry in the index under Herbert Midlane might be worth a look. Maybe its been put in with information in the wrong fields. Its not the first entry that I have seen, that has the wrong thing.
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Which index BlueFire2?
Cando
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NSW death: 14093/1888 Herbert MIDLANE; Father-UNKNOWN RUSSELL; Mother; MARGARET; WILCANNIA
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You would have to ask an Transcription Agent to help you. Of course there would be a fee. With such an uncommon occurring surname I doubt it is wrong. I always purchase a certificate or two along the way to validate my research anyway.
Cheers
Cando
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No I meant the placement of the words in the index. I have seen information from the certificates, put in the wrong fields. The word is right, but its in the wrong spot. If it was my tree, I would have bought some certificates already. I dont get the transcription service anyway. If your transcribing something, save some time and take a photo and send that to me instead. This paying for each word on a certificate, is silly. ???
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Not everyone can afford to pay for a certified certificate.
https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Documents/fees-for-products-and-services.pdf
Transcription Agents can only transcribe from the registers not photograph them. Fee around $20 and less if you request just a 'block' of information.
https://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/family-history.aspx#transcription
I have used their services frequently in NSW and have always found them extremely helpful. Thankfully most of my ancestors were in Victoria with a sprinkling in WA so certs readily available. My lot were pretty boring anyway - no skeletons in the cupboard ;) :P
Cando
Edit to add url's.
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FYI just in case Russell and your man are the one and same.
http://www.heavenaddress.com/Russell-Midlane/658202/
Cando
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A lot of mine were from Victoria. They have a good system in place. You buy it and download it. ;D ;D Hubby is the one with the NSW and South Australia. :-X
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I have the CD's of BDM for SA along with the Biographical Index for South Australians. Lots of passenger lists have recently been digitised on SA Records. If you ever need help just ask. Of course you may have all you need :) Agree Victoria's certs easy to access. Queensland comes a good second though.
Cando
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Looks certain that Herbert Russell Midlane COOMBE is the same man as Russell MIDLANE.
Transcript of the marriage of Russell MIDLANE and Margaret MOORE
Reg No: 3106
Date Married 9 JAN 1917
Place Married ST MARY'S CHURCH, WEST WYALONG, BLAND SHIRE
Religion ROMAN CATHOLIC
Groom Name: Russell MIDLANE
Conjugal Status Widower
Birthplace York, England
Occupation: Selector
Age 77
Usual Residence BENA
Father : John Henry MIDLANE
Mother: Frances Agnes COOMBE
Occupation - Father: Clergyman
Bride
Name: Margaret MOORE
Conjugal Status: SPINSTER
Birthplace CARLOW, IRELAND
Occupation POST MISTRESS
Age 67
Usual Residence BENA
Father: Denis MOORE
Mother: Ellen POWER
Occupation - Father BAKER
Witnesses Austin H. O'CONNOR, Jane DUNNE
Minister EDWARD JOSEPH LAIDE; REGISTERED 19 FEB 1917
He has transposed the surnames of his parents as his father was John Henry COOMBE and his mother Frances Agnes MIDLANE. His father's occupation is correct. He was born in Wilton, Wiltshire but had moved to Yorkshire by 1861 (I cannot find the family in 1841).
He had a younger brother Herbert b 1853 - possibly why he used the forename Herbert ??? in his early adult life.
I'm still wondering why they were married so late. Bridget didn't die until the end of 1917.
Is there a shipping record for him?
Judith
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I now see Russell with his father and siblings in 1841, mistranscribed as COOMBS
1841
Chantry House, Mere, Wiltshire
Jno Coombs 30 - Independent. Not born in County (all children born in county)
Marea Coombs 4
George Coombs 3
Russel Coombs 2
and 2 servants
Mere is where the memorial windows are for the MIDLANE family.
Judith
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Well that is some messed up shenanigans, right there. I had to read that three times and check my tree twice, ??? ??? ???
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I'd like to congratulate you Judb on that bit of lateral thinking and detective work! I've been following it with great interest.
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Me too, although I didn't have him on my tree but he will be now. John and Frances COOMBE had at least 8 children so there's some research to be going on with!
Thanks Mckha489. The MIDLANEs were my first foray into genealogy and the name leaps out as soon as I see it. There were quite a few on the Isle of Wight but my family branch was in the Havant area in the early 1800s. Do you have an interest in them?
Judith
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Have started a new thread re this man as I find him interesting! ;D
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=827664.new#new
Judith