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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => US Lookup Requests => Topic started by: CorleyMiller on Friday 24 August 18 19:45 BST (UK)
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Hello,
On 24th October 1889 Rose Green and John Anderson were married in Paterson, Passaic, New Jersey.
If someone could confirm the bride's and groom's parents names from the marriage record it would be greatly appreciated.
Many Thanks
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Welcome to Rootschat
A tree on Ancestry has her born Staffordshire 7.8.1869 with a father Edwin Green and a mother Selina Wood. The tree shows confirmation from the New Jersey Marriage Records 1670-1965
Parents marriage on freebmd
December qtr 1860
Green Edwin Aston 6d 424
Wood Selina
1871 for Staffordshire
Edwin Green 39 - cooper b Walsall
Selina 38 b Wolverhampton
Carolina 8 b Birmingham
Selina 6 b Birmingham
Frank 3 b Birmingham
Rose 1 b Walsall
RG10 Piece 2964 Folio 135 Page 22
Rose immigrated 1887
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Thank you for both your welcome and for the information.
Apologies, it was my first post and perhaps I should have been a little more expansive.
I suspect that the tree on Ancestry is one that pointed me in the direction of the US when I first started looking for Rose Green, (my great-grandfather Frank's youngest sister).
There does seem to be minor inconsistencies regarding her date of birth:
14/8/1869 per 1905 Rhode I. Census,
7/8/1869 per 1935 Rhode I. Census,
it was actually 3/8/1869 (from her birth certificate)
So, I thought I would look for that extra little piece of evidence that takes my 95% certainty that this is the right Rose Green, up to 100%. None of the US documents I've seen mention her place of birth in any more detail than just "England".
Parents names, which are normally shown in marriage records, seemed to be the way to go.
Unfortunately, Ancestry's New Jersey Marriages data set is not linked to the digitised documents and there's no way of knowing if their transcription is of all available info.
Access to images of that particular data set on the FamilySearch website is restricted to LDS church members or by visiting one of their centres.
Regards
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You say you have her birth cert showing her birthdate as 3.8.1869 which is for the Rose shown above in the 1871 entry
So what you are not sure of is whether she is the same Rose who married in 1889 which can only be proved by viewing the 1889 marriage cert which hopefully shows her parents. Got it ;D
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Her obit indicates Rose died at her daughter's home in Minnesota. Perhaps you can order her death certificate? They are only $9, which is a great price compared to what most states try to rip you off for. see link at bottom.
Newport Daily News
Newport, Rhode Island
Monday, November 13, 1950 - Page 2
Mrs. John M. Anderson, 81,
Dies In St. Paul, Minn.
Mrs. Rose Green Anderson, 81, wife of the late John M. Anderson of Jamestown, died Saturday after a brief illness at the home of her daughter, Mrs. Charles Gilbert, in St. Paul Minnesota. Born in England, Mrs. Anderson came to the United States at an early age and settled in Newport where she lived a number of years after her marriage. In 1924 she moved to Jamestown where she remained until going to St. Paul two years ago. Besides her daughter, she leaves five sons, Edwin Anderson of Springfield, Mass., William Anderson of West Medbury, George R. Anderson of Providence, and Malcolm and John Anderson of .Jamestown, 14 grandchildren; and five great grandchildren.
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Newport Daily News
Newport, Rhode Island
Thursday, November 16, 1950 - Page 2
MRS. J. M. ANDERSON RITES
___________
Funeral services for Mrs. Rose Green Anderson, wife of the late John M. Anderson, who died Saturday at the home of her daughter in St. Paul, Minnesota, were held this afternoon at her home on East Shore road, Jamestown. The Rev. Myron Hertel, pastor of the Central Baptist Church, officiated. Bearers were her five sons, Malcolm, John M., William, Edwin and Richmond Anderson, and her grandson, Robert Anderson. Burial was here in the Island cemetery.
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MN Death Certificate Index: http://people.mnhs.org/finder/dci/1950-MN-027742
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Naming one of her sons Edwin seems a good indication you are on the right track for Rose
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RJ137 - Thank you so much for the link, I've just ordered Rose's death certificate. $9 is an absolute bargain, and with free international delivery too!
Thank you also for the obituaries, plenty of useful information to hopefully feed into my family tree.
Would you happen to know if there is a website that lists the links for these type of services for the different US states? I have "lost" relatives from the other side of my family whom I know emigrated to the US but have been difficult to find just from the sources on Ancestry and FamilySearch, any additional resources in the search would be useful.
CaroleW - Yes, the circumstantial evidence is quite overwhelming and in addition, I've discovered that Rose's daughter Mrs Charles Gilbert mentioned in the obits is actually called Flora which was my grandmother's name, there could well be a link there.
My preliminary research did reveal that if this is "our" Rose Green, her descendants are quite numerous and would be a substantial addition to the family tree which I why sought that conclusive piece of evidence.
There's a 15 day delivery period for the certificate, so in the meantime I may dig out and post a couple of my long standing "brick walls" now I've finally got around to joining Rootschat.
Thank you again for your assistance,
Regards
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RJ137 - Thank you so much for the link, I've just ordered Rose's death certificate. $9 is an absolute bargain, and with free international delivery too!
Thank you also for the obituaries, plenty of useful information to hopefully feed into my family tree.
Would you happen to know if there is a website that lists the links for these type of services for the different US states? I have "lost" relatives from the other side of my family whom I know emigrated to the US but have been difficult to find just from the sources on Ancestry and FamilySearch, any additional resources in the search would be useful.
There is no website that has these types of links listed for US States that I'm aware of. Most of the state and county records are hit and miss when it comes to these type records. Over time of researching the US you pick up on these links here and there for the states, counties and towns/cities.
You may find this link helpful for finding records, but a large part of the links refer to either Ancestry com or FamilySearch.
https://www.deathindexes.com/sites.html
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In case you that is the Rose you seek, her is an image of her obit for your records. SAme obit as above, just from a different newspaper.
Rose's obit: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/23140018/rose_anderson_obit/
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RJ137 - Thanks for the links, greatly appreciated.
Regards
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Hello,
Just a quick update on this request. The death certificate duly arrived from Minnesota (in a lot less than the 15 days as they emailed it, a superb service) and it confirms Rose Green's parents as Edwin Green and Selina Wood, so this is definitely the right person. I've now been able to add her descendants in to my family tree, a branch that I'm fairly sure my immediate family in the UK were previously unaware of.
Curiously, my initial research into Rose's sister Selina indicates that she and her family also emigrated to the US and they're already presenting a few genealogical challenges.
Anyway, thank you for all your help with this, it is greatly appreciated.
Regards
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Curiously, my initial research into Rose's sister Selina indicates that she and her family also emigrated to the US and they're already presenting a few genealogical challenges.
Who was she married too?
If she had children before immigrating, what were their names and ages?
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Was Selina Green the one that married Alfred Bryan - Walsall - 6b 939
Sandra
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Daughter - Lilian Frances Bryan baptised 26 June 1892 - Aston, St Peter and St Paul, Warwickshire.
Aston Warwickshire 1901
Alfred Bryan 32 - Selina Bryan 37 - Lilian F Bryan 8
Sandra
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Daughter - Texas, Death Certificates, 1903-1982 - Frances Lillian Noon - Frances Lillian Bryan - 22 April 1892 - Birmingham England - 17 May 1967 - Fort Worth, Tarrant, Texas.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K78Y-VFN
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GY1M-9NVY?i=2995&cc=1983324
Sandra
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FIND A GRAVE
Frances B Noon - born 1892 passed away 1967 (aged 74–75)
Burial - Greenwood Memorial Park and Mausoleum Fort Worth, Tarrant County, Texas.
Plot - Masonic Section.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/114662014
Sandra
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1930 census Circle Park Ave Fort Worth, Tarrant, Texas. Parents Immigrated 1912
Richard C Noon 41 Frances Noon 38 Frances B Noon 8
Alfred Bryan 61 Imm 1911. AL. and Stlina Bryan 66 Imm 1912
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HVYQ-5PZ
1940 Park Street Fort Worth, Tarrant.
Richard Noon 50 Frances Noon 47 Frances Noon 18
Alford Bryan 71 Father in law. Widowed. NA.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K47X-6YB
Sandra
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Alfred Bryan - 26 June 1868 Birmingham England passed away 16 April 1941 - Fort Worth, Tarrant, Texas. Parents Alfred Bryan Mother Frances Griffith.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K39S-CQK
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9YBB-S1FW?i=11&cc=1983324
Sandra
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FIND A GRAVE
1868 - 1941 Alfred Bryan -
Greenwood Memorial Park and Mausoleum Fort Worth, Tarrant County, Texas.
Plot Masonic Section
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/114662009
Sandra
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Alfred Bryan died in 1941
DC: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K39S-CQK
Selina died in 1932. She is listed as (Mrs) Alfred Bryan
DC: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:K33F-4M7
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GB9N-9D27?i=3393&cc=1983324
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The above Selina's DOB differs from Selina's birth record
Selina Birth: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JWXF-BRZ
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FIND A GRAVE
Selina Bryan - 1863 - 1932
Greenwood Memorial Park and Mausoleum Fort Worth, Tarrant County, Texas.
Plot Masonic Section.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/114662013/selina-bryan
Sandra
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Hi,
My response to your first posts didn't seem to work (perhaps it was because I'd marked the topic as complete?)
I was going to suggest that I started a new thread but I think it's too late for that.
So here goes with Alfred & Selina....
They were married on 31st Aug 1891 in Walsall, Staffordshire.
Both the 1901 & 1911 census’ show them living in Small Heath, Birmingham.
In 1901, with daughter Lillian F Bryan (8) born Aston, Birmingham.
In 1911, with 2 daughters, Lilly (20) born Hawick, Scotland and Frances (18) born Aston, Birmingham.
Confusingly, Frances was actually registered and baptised in 1892 as Lilian Frances Bryan, so one would assume that she is the child in the 1901 census.
I’m trying to achieve 3 things:
1. Locate a birth certificate for Lily (dob 9 Jun 1890 from 1939 register, shown under her married name Pittaway) to determine her father, if recorded. I can’t see anything on Scotland’s People under Bryan or Green.
2. Locate an 1891 census entry for Selina & Lily, and a 1901 census entry for Lily.
3. Locate the third child – the 1911 census indicates that there were 3 living children of the marriage. Alfred, Selina and Frances emigrate to the US shortly after and Lily remains in Birmingham but there’s nothing in the details I’ve found that indicates the existence or identity of this third child.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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A New York passenger List shows Selina Bryan - born Birmingham 1864 England travelling Liverpool to New york on the Scythia arriving 9 October 1928 - housewife - daughter Mrs Pittaway 283 Yardley Road. Small heath Birmingham - going to home 1317 Park Avenue North. Fort Worth. Texas. Had been in the USA 1913 - 1928.
Sandra
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Thanks Sandra, that passenger list was the key to finding Lily on the 39 register and consequently her date of birth.
Lily’s dob is shown as 9 Jun 1890 (although someone has subsequently written “Jul QEJ” next to it, so could be 9 Jul 1890).
Regards
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Perhaps the marriage certificate for Lily Bryan and William Pittaway - Aston - 6d 1208 - September 1915 might throw light on parentage. ???
The death gives 9 June 1890 as well.
Sandra
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Yes, I think that will be the next step.
Selina made a number of journeys back to see Lily but always on her own, never with Alfred. This may have been a cost issue or possibly because he wasn't her father, but at this point I'm just speculating. However, there are a few curiosities regarding the family's emigration:
In 1911, Alfred emigrated to the US under the name Alf Brown (passenger list).
In May 1912, Selina and Frances follow Alfred to the US also under the name Brown.
The 1920 US census finds them living in Vandergrift, Pa, under the names of Fred and Selina Brown. Frances has married a man called Richard C Noon and lives in Fort Worth, Texas.
(Interestingly, Alfred also applies for naturalisation in the name of Fred Brown)
By the 1930 US census, Alfred & Selina have moved to Fort Worth to live with their daughter and have reverted to their proper names.
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1. Locate a birth certificate for Lily (dob 9 Jun 1890 from 1939 register, shown under her married name Pittaway) to determine her father, if recorded. I can’t see anything on Scotland’s People under Bryan or Green.
Hi couldn't find a Lillian born in 1890 but did find a Lily Bland born in Hawick no other records in Scotland for a Lily Bland don't know if this could be her
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Thanks Wendy, I think I still have some credits for Scotland's People so I'll have look at it.
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The 1920 US census finds them living in Vandergrift, Pa, under the names of Fred and Selina Brown. Frances has married a man called Richard C Noon and lives in Fort Worth, Texas.
(Interestingly, Alfred also applies for naturalisation in the name of Fred Brown)
By the 1930 US census, Alfred & Selina have moved to Fort Worth to live with their daughter and have reverted to their proper names.
The 1920/1930 census states Alfred was a painter. His obit/death notice states he was an actor. Could one name have something to do with being an actor?
Abilene Reporter-News
Abilene, Texas
Thursday, April 17, 1941 - Page 16
Veteran Actor Dies
FORT WORTH. April 17.-(AP)-Alfred Bryan, 72, whose 57-year career as an actor included innumerable appearances during the heydey of the little theater here, died last night.
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McAllen Daily Press
McAllen, Texas
Friday, April 18, 1941 - Page 1
ENGLISHMAN-ACTOR DIES
FORTH WORTH, April 18 (UP) Funeral services will be held today for Alfred Frederick Bryan. 72, old-time English actor, who died here Wednesday.
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It's Lily!! ;D
Excellent find, thank you for that suggestion!
Lilly Bland - born 9th June 1890 in Crown Close, Hawick.
Father - George William Bland, Acrobat :o
Mother - Selina Bland (nee Green)
Married 25th September 1884 in Walsall
A previous marriage, of course! It does raise all sorts of questions about possible other children and about travelling circuses!
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RJ137 - Thank you for finding the obituary.
An actor, how interesting! Possibly with a stage name too. That's certainly worth some research.
Well, my great aunt Selina obviously had a thing for entertainers!
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1. Locate a birth certificate for Lily (dob 9 Jun 1890 from 1939 register, shown under her married name Pittaway) to determine her father, if recorded. I can’t see anything on Scotland’s People under Bryan or Green.
Hi couldn't find a Lillian born in 1890 but did find a Lily Bland born in Hawick no other records in Scotland for a Lily Bland don't know if this could be her
Amazing Wendy - great find.........certainly going to help sort brick wall................. ;)
Sandra ;)
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1. Locate a birth certificate for Lily (dob 9 Jun 1890 from 1939 register, shown under her married name Pittaway) to determine her father, if recorded. I can’t see anything on Scotland’s People under Bryan or Green.
Hi couldn't find a Lillian born in 1890 but did find a Lily Bland born in Hawick no other records in Scotland for a Lily Bland don't know if this could be her
Amazing Wendy - great find.........certainly going to help sort brick wall................. ;)
Sandra ;)
Maybe another brick wall behind it can't see a marriage for a Selina Green and a George William Bland plus wouldn't Selina have married under Bland rather than Green when she married Alfred Bryan
Corley 2 questions who registered Lily's birth and what status does Selina give on her second marriage
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Wendy,
I can't find that marriage either, seems a bit odd given that there is a specific date (25th Sep 1884) on Lily's birth certificate.
the informant was George Wm Bland.
Selina's condition was Spinster so maybe there wasn't first marriage after all and the date was made up on the spot.
I've found Lily Bland in 1891 - she's living with Alfred & Eliza Bird at 41 James Street Rushall (part of Walsall) and relationship to head of household is niece, I haven't worked out yet who exactly these people are but they are the witnesses on Alfred & Selina's marriage certificate. Alfred & Selina give 41 James St as their address.
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There's a possible marriage between a Alfred Bird and Eliza Taylor in Walsall in 1882 the other 2 names on Freebmd are Emily Dorman and William Knight
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Yes, thanks for that, Wendy - I've just remembered who Eliza Bird (nee Taylor) is - Selina's father died and her mother (also Selina) married a widower called Thomas Taylor, Eliza is his daughter from his previous marriage.
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I think I may be almost there...
1891 Census
31 Eagle Street, Derby
George Wm Bland Aged 28 - Actor Born Walsall
Selina Bland - Aged 26 - Actress Born Birmingham
Frank Bland - Aged 6 - Scholar Born Walsall
Therefore there's a real possibility that Frank Bland is the 3rd child referred to in the 1911 census.
Nothing stands out from a quick search of the birth registers under Bland, but there's an entry under Green in Walsall - Dec Qtr 1885 with a baptism at St John's, Walsall showing Selina Green as his mother. I think I'll order a PDF copy of the certificate to make sure, although I suspect the father's name may not be recorded.