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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: oldhippyone on Tuesday 28 August 18 10:03 BST (UK)
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can some one help find these family,s this is what I have
birth certificate for john jack Thompson 8 feb 1899 canning town tidal basin father William Thompson occupation sugar mill worker mother Florence wright address 78 boyd road tidal basin.
the only thing i have on john jack thompson is 1939register and his marriage in 1922 married to florence knight [ john jack on his birth cert and on 1939 reg ]
I have a marriage certificate for john jacks parents as follows
dec 7th 1890 west ham , William Thompson age 27 occupation gardiner father Samuel Thompson occ gardiner Florence wright age 20 , father Thomas wright occ boatman , address of both groom and bride 31 Granville road west ham witness john Thomas wright and agnes wright
I can not find any of these people in any census all I have is john jack and wife in 1939 , can anyone find anything
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Hello,
Think dad is calling himself John.
1901 1576/120/48
74 Baron ??? road Canning Town
John Thompson 35 yrs
Florance Thompson 30 yrs
William Thompson 5 yrs
John Thompson 2 yrs
Louisa Thompson 8 yrs
Heywood
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Hi
[ Amended TWICE ;D ]
1891 1901 they (William 27 & Florence 20) are at 47 Frederick Road West Ham
(Hooper Road is at the top of the sheet, Frederick Road halfway down the sheet)
RG12 1318 90 page 18 West Ham District 12
Ray
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWF3-JPZ
1911 - Florence is widowed
Mistranscribed re the 2nd boy’s name and age.
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Heywood I have researched that family and john [ William ] does not have a father called Samuel
ray im on ancestry and dont know how to search with the info you have given me for 47 hopper road
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Hi
I searched for William Thompson living West Ham spouse Florence
R
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Heywood I have researched that family and john [ William ] does not have a father called Samuel
ray im on ancestry and dont know how to search with the info you have given me for 47 hopper road
Do you mean that the 1901 is not your family?
There are two Louisas born 1893 - one with mmn Wright and one mmn Heath.
Will have to check.
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Hi
The one highlighted by Heywood, the transcription is incorrect but if you look at the original the second William is actually John (12)
Ray
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Hi
The one highlighted by Heywood, the transcription is incorrect but if you look at the original the second William is actually John (12)
Ray
That’s what I meant but was trying to be discreet. :)
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ray the only onei can find is living at Frederick road
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That’s the one :)
Frederick road is halfway down the census page.
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hi haywood I have researched that family you have found and the father of william is not samuel , even searched tree,s on ancestry an they don't have any samuel as father to William , and the occupations are different , but thank you for helping
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Are you happy though that the family is correct for John Jack.
John/William may have made up the name for his father - illegitimacy or using two names as the son does.
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thanks haywood , I rely don't know who the parents were all I know is whats on the certificates and I still can not find them I mean a gardener and a boatman should be easy enough to find but no luck !!
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Hi
Amended Hooper/Frederick Road post.
R
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ray Samuel is Williams father according to his marriage certificate its in my original post sanuel was a gardener along with his son William
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1901 would seem to be correct. Child William was registered as Isaac William.
All 3 children have mmn Wright.
So now you are trying to go back a generation.
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Heywood yes im trying to find William with parent,s father Samuel , mothers name not known and don't know where they were born etc … how did you get the mmn on the children ?
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https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
It is free
Did you find this family?
1891 1320/71
31 Granville Rad
Elizabeth Clare /Wright and several children including Agnes - a witness at the wedding.
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im on ancestry and don't know how to search using the digits you have given , no I haven't seen the family in Granville road how do I search for them ? and thanks for the gro
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I am not sure re mother’s surname so search for Agnes Wright b 1874 Wisbech, Cambridgeshire
You have to go back a couple of pages for the street name - they have put numbers and dittoed.
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Heywood iv found them in Granville road thank you ,,, I wonder how they are connected
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The address is written GLanville not Granville.
Agnes is almost certainly illegitimate, there is no mother’s maiden name.
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thank you now to try and find out how this family fit in
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The address is written GLanville not Granville.
Agnes is almost certainly illegitimate, there is no mother’s maiden name.
Thanks :)
Yes I have found several of the children with no mmn
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no mmn that's interesting !!
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Oh it gets worse/more interesting
Elizabeth was Clare/Wright in 1891
This is 1881 1699/19/31
Walsoken, Norfolk
John Clare 28 yrs deal Porter (I think)
Elizabeth Clare 30 yrs
John T. Clare 12 yrs
Robert Clare 9 yrs
Clara Clare 10 yrs
Agnes Clare 7 yrs
Lilly Clare 5 yrs
Sarah Clare 3 yrs
No Florence but I wonder if she is Clara?
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it is interesting did she remarry ? im now compleatly lost as to who is who !!
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1871 1622/23/7
Elizabeth Wright 21 yrs b Upwell, Norfolk is with her parents George and Sarah Wright and child John T Wright 2 yrs. wasn’t he a witness to Florence's marriage?
All seems to fit.
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witnesses was john Thomas wright and agnes wright father Thomas wright boatman
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So you have two siblings there - with mother Elizabeth plus the right address.
John Clare is a Deal Porter which could be interpreted as Boatman.
Free BMD
1880 Wisbeach December 1880 3b pg 1326
John Thomas Clare and Elizabeth Wright are on the same page
So why are the children registered as Wright ???
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thank you so much I am lost as to how and where they fit in , but they deff fit in some where
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All the ones I have given you - Wright/Clare are Florence’s mother and siblings.
Well, I think so anyway :)
You have to be a bit flexible sometimes when a father’s name is given. It isn’t always the truth.
With regard to Florence, there is a birth for Flora Wright 1871 Wisbech with no mmn.
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thank you I will put info on tree
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thank you I will put info on tree
Only if you have checked and are confident, I hope ;)
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yes but im not sure how to connect the clare into it , im confused over that …
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I don’t know much about trees but Elizabeth married him. Perhaps it didn’t last long.
On FindMyPast newspaper snippets, John Thomas Clare looks to have been in trouble about 1885, I think.
You could get a couple of birth certificates but I would think they would just have her name.
The one for Flora would be best because I assume it is your Florence,
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right im going to have to read back on all that was found because I am still confused, I will go to library and log on to findmypast and get a clipping on john thomas clare , was he a thompsons as that's the name on Florence marriage witness
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John Thomas Clare married Elizabeth Wright.1880
But...
She seems to have all children with mmn Wright.
Florence was born c 1871 and probably registered as Flora.
Witness to marriage were Florence's siblings, John Thomas Wright and Agnes Wright.
I don’t think John Clare has much to do with it really other than he married Elizabeth and that accounts for her in 1891 as Elizabeth Clare with ‘Wright’ written above.
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ahh I understand now thank you im a little slow !! thank you
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btw "Deal Porter", deal was/is a name for pine (wood) used in building.
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btw "Deal Porter", deal was/is a name for pine (wood) used in building.
Ah thanks. I knew it was wood but thought it might have been transported by barge.
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So are these people as in illigitamt children to Elizabeth not mine !!
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So are these people as in illigitamt children to Elizabeth not mine !!
Not sure what you mean.
We have the family in 1891 in West Ham.
In my opinion, looking at censuses and births, I think Elizabeth Wright is the mother of Florence and several other children.
She married John Clare in 1880.
Here they are in 1881
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27C-56GH
These children probably not John’s but you would need to check Wright births.
Grace and Kate (seen in 1891 as Wright) we’re registered as Clare mmn Wright.
I haven’t checked all births on GRO however.
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Thanks this tablet won't let me on that site familysearch so I will have to try ancestry for 1881 Florence but I have looked and can not find them in 1881on ancestry
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Heywood ancestry does not have a marriage for Elizabeth Wright and John Clare in 1880 or any year !! And I still can not find the family in 1881 anywhere on ancestry sorry
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No worries.
I don’t know if they married each other but they are on the same marriage page in the indexes
John Thomas Clare
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DRK-FZV
Elizabeth Wright
https://www.familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/2DRP-9TG
1881
There isn’t a Florence but I am wondering if it is a mistake and she is recorded as Clara.
I said earlier, there is a birth for Flora Wright
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27C-56LJ
Here is the birth for Flora Wright
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2X4B-98P
And this is likely to be here in 1871 which causes more worry as she is boarding with a family
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFFF-FNB
The trouble is the more you find the more complex it becomes.
The definite is that you have a Wright family living at the marriage address so hopefully the rest will follow :-\
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Ok as I said I can not log onto familysearch on this tablet so I will do it tomorrow on my laptop and let you know the outcome
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Oh dear. You are signed in, aren’t you?
You can find the marriage in Free BMD and the censuses are easily found on Ancestry etc.
Just to add that in 1901 1582/136/57
Elizabeth is now Elizabeth Roughton ‘married’ to George Roughton who is a boarder in 1891.
Free BMD shows a marriage March 1904, West Ham where George Roughton and Elizabeth Clare are on the same page.
1911 George and Elizabeth Roughton
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWFQ-LYR
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Thank again , I'm sure they are my family as you said same address as on marriage cert witnessed same , butvitcwould be nice to know who all the children's father was !!!
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Just had another look at newspaper snippets
Elizabeth Clare, Walsoken
1884
John Thomas Clare striking his wife Elizabeth
1885
Assault by John on Elizabeth and she applied for a judicial separation
1885
Elizabeth fined for not sending her daughter Agnes to school
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Walsoken ?? I will have to see if these is on ancestry , what paper was this in ??
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I agree with Haywood that Florence/Flora is the Clara in the 1881 census, possibly an error by the enumerator. The census also shows Lilly aged 5 on the census but there is no birth recorded for Lilly, there is one at the right time for Lizzie Wright no mother’s maiden name in Wisbech.
Either the enumerator or whoever filled out the schedule made a mistake with the names.
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Florence can't be the Clara iv just found a birth for Carla Clare wisebeck 1871 no parents name given on ancestry
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Holy Trinity Canning Town after Banns
24 January 1904
George Roughton 51 widower, Purifier Gas Works father William Roughton, Porter
& Elizabeth Clare 53 Widow father George Wright Waterman
I am not certain about the address but it looks like 2 Swanscombe Street.
Witnesses Thomas Raughton & M E Roughton.
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Ancestry doesn’t give parents’ names. Have you got the reference?
I can see
Clara Clare 1872 Wisbech mmn Young
The marriage looks good Jebber, with father’s name George Wright.
Interesting that he is a Waterman.
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Vol 3b 663 page is it my Clara
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Vol 3b 663 page is it my Clara
No she’s not. That is 1872 and her mother is a Young. Elizabeth was not with John Clare then. In 1871 she is at home with her parents.
I would think that your Florence is Flora as mentioned before.
We think that the enumerator in 1881 has mistaken Flora for Clara.
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You just beat me to it Heywood, I was just checking the birth on Ancestry.
The OP tends to get names mixed up, they quoted Carla 1871 instead of Clara 1872. In the original post Florence was referred to as both Florence Wright an Knight.
Must go and put my iPad on charge now.
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Thank you