RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: janjim on Thursday 30 August 18 06:28 BST (UK)
-
Hi,
I am trying to find information on a Charles William New b. 1859 Notting Hill, London, son of Charles New b. 1835 and Mother Mary Ann Clifford b. 1835 of London.
I have searched for various information on Charles William New, and he was still living with his parents in 1881 census in London.
However I have just found a death for a Charles William New who died in Queensland 24.1.1937 in Queensland, son of Charles New and Mary Ann Clifford.
Can only presume that he came to Australia, sometime after 1881. Looking for any information of when and where he came to Australia.
Would love to know more about him and his family.
jan
-
Hi Jan,
Here is a brief obit - doesn't mention his arrival http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article41786283
(Cairns Post 25 Jan 1937)
Ros
-
From Qld Immigration Index https://data.qld.gov.au/dataset/assisted-immigration-1848-to-1912
Chas NEW, age 22, arriving on the El Dorado, 26-6-1883
Ros
-
Marriage: 1886 C805 Harriet Brown to Charles William New
Added: Death - 1957 C3587 Harriet New parents Frederick Brown and Mary Motley
I’m not seeing births of children.
Jamjar
-
Thank you, that's great, we've now got a lead on him.
Jan
-
Hi Jamjar, does it say where the marriage was?
Jan
Marriage: 1886 C805 Harriet Brown to Charles William New
Jamjar
-
Hi Jamjar, does it say where the marriage was?
Jan
Marriage: 1886 C805 Harriet Brown to Charles William New
Jamjar
No, but the ‘C’ indicates that it was not in Brisbane.
I added wife’s death to post #3.
Jamjar
-
Hi,
In 1895 he was in Charters Towers.
1895 Queensland State Electoral Roll
THE ELECTORAL DISTRICT OF CHARTERS TOWERS
NEW, Charles William, GFH, Lease, 1423, Kirkbride Road, Mossman's Paddock.
Gerry
-
At Gordonvale Cemetery, near Cairns:
C W New
Date of death: 24 Jan 1937
Burial Date: 24 Jan 1937
Cemetery: Gordonvale Cemetery
Section: MON
Row: OTH
Site: 142
-
His mother looking for him in 1889, 1st column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article84757370
Jamjar
-
Charles NEW disembarked in Townsville so possibly a marriage in that location before going to Charters Towers.
Gerry
-
Wow thanks for all of this, it is so good to get this information now.
Yes, I have followed up on Ancestry records now, found him as a Miner at Charters Towers.
Wish we could find who his son was. I note that his wife Harriett Brown was on board the same ship as Charles, she was aged 15 years travelling with her family. Maybe the son was hers before their marriage.
Thank you all so much.
-
Hi
Death notice for Hariet's mother in 1913 at Charters Towers.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/79111390?searchTerm=
buried at the Lynd Road Cemetery in Charters Towers.
Frederick Brown had died in 1905 and is also buried in the Lynd Road Cemetery next to Mary Brown.
Gerry
-
Hi,
Thanks for that information, I also note that Harriett New had a brother Frederick William Brown, he married Agnes Smith in 1892, but he died within months of his marriage in Charters Towers.
Wondering if we have any details on that too please.
But it is interesting to note that the death notice for Mary includes Mr. and Mrs. C.W. New and grandchildren, so there must have been a birth of a son to them, somewhere.
Jan
-
Hi,
Burial for Frederick William Brown
Lynd Road Cemetery Charters Towers
http://www.charterstowers.qld.gov.au/cemeteries-search
Frederick William BROWN
Buried, 30th August 1892.
Typhoid
22 years old, Methodist
Section 5, plot 0, grave 3475.
Gerry
-
Thanks so much Gerry, getting all the family together now.
I am really keen to find out more on the New family. We have had several missing family members from the UK, never knew they came to Australia, until I just happened to come across a death of Charles William New in 1937. The rest of the family arrived in Sydney from 1911 onwards.
Now to find the birth of a son and grandchildren, must have been more family members around.
Would be great to finally make contact with some of them.
Jan
-
Hi,
The ROSE surname in Mary BROWN's death notice in 1913 was most likely Charlotte BROWN who had married William Hodges in 1887 at Charters Towers and remarried Edward ROSE in 1901 also at Charters Towers. Edward died in 1930 and Charlotte in 1945 at 63 years. Both are buried at the Lynd Road Cemetery in Charters Towers.
Gerry
-
thank you Gerry, I am so keen to find out more on the New descendants now. My parents travelled to Rollingstone, Queensland back in the 1990's looking for my Dad's brother b. 1902 Newbury, found someone with a similar name and age, and thought this could be him, but alas no. However, now I am thinking that this fellow could have been a descendant of this other side of the family (maybe even the son of Charles William New).
Would love to get to the bottom of what happened to this family (distant cousins).
We did in the end find out what happened to my Uncle (Dad's brother), well after my Father's death sadly. It was a long journey of searching all over NSW, and finally found step grandchildren of his living just nearby to us, Uncle Albert New changed his surname to his new lady's.
Jan
-
Hi Jan,
If you purchased the death Certificate for Charles William NEW is should (hopefully) have the children from the marriage if the informant knew of the details.
Just for interest my Great grand parents lived in Kirkbride Road Charters Towers at the same time Charles and Harriet New.
Gerry
-
Gerry,
Yes that will be my best option now, I believe. Certificates are quite expensive here in Australia compared to the UK.
That is interesting your family too living in the same area. Guess it was a gold mining area, and was the reason for them coming to Australia, maybe !
-
Thanks Ros for that information. Very interesting family !!
From Qld Immigration Index https://data.qld.gov.au/dataset/assisted-immigration-1848-to-1912
Chas NEW, age 22, arriving on the El Dorado, 26-6-1883
Ros
-
Before I apply for a death certificate of Charles William New, to ascertain who his son may have been, I have been looking through the Charters Towers Cemetery records, and found a Rosa New who died 15.1.1944 at the Lynd Road Cemetery. Looking further via Ancestry, I see that her parents were Henry Thompkins and Ellen Latham, but I don't seem to be able to get any further with information on Rosa.
Am thinking that maybe Rosa might have been the lady that married the son, wondered if anyone could help me with that new avenue of searching please. I seem to have hit a brick wall at this stage.
Jan
-
Hi Jan,
found some info on her via papers
PERSONAL
The late Rosa New, who died in Charters Towers at the week-end was born Rosa Tomkins, daughter of an English Gentleman in Cheshire, England. She came to Australia at the age of nineteen and settled in Cooktown. Here she married and reared half of her family in the bush outside Cooktown. Later she took up residence at Thursday Island and was well-known in business to everyone around for over thirty years. She was predeceased by her husband in 1930. At the beginning of 1942 she was evacuated from the north and settled in Charters Towers to await the time when she would one day return to her Island home. She was loved by all who knew her and is sadly missed by those who survive her.
Mark & Rosa had 8 children on Qld BMD.
Qld BMD - Marriages
1888 C492 Rosa Tomkins Mark New
regards Val
-
Hi Jan,
found some info on her via papers
PERSONAL
The late Rosa New, who died in Charters Towers at the week-end was born Rosa Tomkins, daughter of an English Gentleman in Cheshire, England. She came to Australia at the age of nineteen and settled in Cooktown. Here she married and reared half of her family in the bush outside Cooktown. Later she took up residence at Thursday Island and was well-known in business to everyone around for over thirty years. She was predeceased by her husband in 1930. At the beginning of 1942 she was evacuated from the north and settled in Charters Towers to await the time when she would one day return to her Island home. She was loved by all who knew her and is sadly missed by those who survive her.
Mark & Rosa had 8 children on Qld BMD.
Qld BMD - Marriages
1888 C492 Rosa Tomkins Mark New
regards Val
Death: 1930 C1968 Mark New parents John and Emma Upward
Jamjar
-
Thank you Val, so interesting to read about Rosa, obviously due to the 2nd World War, she was brought back to the mainland.
Having looked at the marriage details, and the name of her husband Mark New, don't think this would be the family we are looking for. Our New family seemed to be consistent with naming their children after their family members. Mark does not stand out anywhere ! Also that is interesting the name of Marks parents.
Oh well we will eventually find out who the son was of Charles William & Harriett New. Will keep on searching. Thank you so much.
Jan
-
Now to find the death details, with BDM, not found yet !!
Hi Jan,
If you purchased the death Certificate for Charles William NEW is should (hopefully) have the children from the marriage if the informant knew of the details.
Just for interest my Great grand parents lived in Kirkbride Road Charters Towers at the same time Charles and Harriet New.
Gerry
-
Which death details on QLDBDM, can’t you find?
Jamjar
-
Sorry, probably confused you now, am thinking if we get Charles William New's death certificate, for 1937, maybe we might find out who his son was, hopefully anyway.
Jan
-
Found information now, have ordered death certificate, and hopefully this will provide the information we need now.
Jan
-
Jamjar,
You quote death for Harriett New in 1957, wondering does it indicate whereabouts for the death?
Gordonvale or maybe Walkerston Cemetery, Mackay?
Jan
Marriage: 1886 C805 Harriet Brown to Charles William New
Added: Death - 1957 C3587 Harriet New parents Frederick Brown and Mary Motley
I’m not seeing births of children.
Jamjar
-
No, Jan. You’d need the death certificate for that one. 😉
Or, to find her on a cemetery index.
Jamjar
-
Thanks Jamjar, just received the death certificate of Charles William New, does not show any issue from his marriage to Harriet Brown, Informant is a nephew.
Wow to start searching again.
Jan
-
Hi Jan,
Surprised by the result because the notice re his death in the Cairns Post mentioned a 'grown up son' .
What was the name of the nephew informant?
Gerry
-
The name of the Informant was Nephew, Edward John Greening of Mulgrave Road, Cairns, Builder.
Have found him married to Hannah Johnson, who is daughter of Maria Brown (sister to Mrs. Harriett New) married to William Gosling Johnson.
Can only imagine that maybe Charles William New had a son in London before he migrated to Australia. Probably will never get to the bottom of this.
-
Hi Jan,
Starting to look like he had a son before he left England, maybe if we could find him on the 1881 England Census to see if there was a child or the 1891 Census to see if the child was with grand parents. Maybe the mother took the child which would make searching more difficult though.
Gerry
-
Yes I am tending to agree with you now Gerry.
I will look through any New family members, but doubt that we will ever find out.
I was hoping that we might find some New relatives living in Australia.
Thanks for your help anyway.
Jan
-
The son may have been Harriett’s, before marrying Charles.
Her death certificate should have his name. Yes, I know costly. 😉
Or, the paper got it wrong. 😉
Jamjar
-
Yes, you could be right Gerry, have thought that maybe Harriett got pregnant while on board ship, to Charles W. New, but she didn't marry him until 3 years later. She was only 15 years of age when she came to Australia.
I have been through all census information for Charles' parents, and no sign of a child. Maybe he fathered a child in Townsville or Charters Towers, but child registered in the Mother's name.
Lots of questions to answer, I have contacted Gordonvale Museum (Musgrave) and Cairns Council, to see if they have any records, but the prospect of finding this son is pretty remote now.
Guess what we want to see is someone come up with a DNA match, we are slowly finding some interesting family connections, skeletons coming out of the cupboards, quite surprising !!
My new found second cousin, e.g. is from a New family relationship, not long after they arrived in Australia.
jan