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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kerry => Topic started by: Suemagoo on Friday 31 August 18 22:43 BST (UK)
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I have been given help in the past regarding my GG Julia (Leary), however, further research proved I had the wrong Julia Leary!!! After checking my research I am 100% confident my Julia Lawlor married a Michael Leary (labourer) in 28 Feb 1871. They were RC and found the marriage record. Michael's father was Cornelius but I don't know where he came from. They had 8 children (7 girls and 1 boy). Griffiths valuation for Scartaglin, Co. Kerry shows a Michael Leary on plot 1 and plot 2a where it appears he has a lot of land, house, office and a bog. Then I find in 1901 the same family with Michael, Julia and the 2 youngest girls (Julia Anne-my GG and sister Hanna) living still in a house in Bawnaskehy, Scartaglin,Co. Kerry but they appear to be in a small 2 room house with a cow barn and piggery. To go from having so much to so little seems strange and I have no idea how this could have happened?
In 1902 Julia leaves from Queenstown and by herself at 17, heads for the United States where she is meeting her two oldest sisters, Nellie and Mary in New York. After 1901 Michael and Julia Leary seem to disappear and I have no clue how else I can search for what happened to them. Would it have been common for the parents to travel to the US or would they have just encouraged their children to leave for the prospect of a better life.
It is also strange that although they were RC, only the youngest girl was recorded in the Church Records, where all the others were civil birth registrations. Why? Checking the RC Church records, I can't find any marriages for the girls where their Father is listed-and death records, I'm just getting nowhere. My question is have I done all I can to trace this family or is there something else I can check. Michael was born around 1847 and Julia Lawlor in 1851. If most of the children left and or some died, and they were very poor, I am also wondering if they ended up in a workhouse due to illness . I hate to give up but I may have no other choice and I guess I just need someone to advise me if there is something I have missed.
Thank you in advance for any suggestions and or opinions.
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They might have had nothing.....
...except rental of a Farm!!
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Why not start with
Party 1 Name MICHAEL LEARY
Party 2 Name JULIA LAWLOR
Date of Event 28 February 1871
Group Registration ID 2757247
SR District/Reg Area Tralee
Image https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1871/11340/8162596.pdf
and then search for children
If you find them, include Links in subsequent postings....
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When did Cornelius die? Informant?
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I found the marriage record for Michael Leary and Julia Lawlor and all the children's baptism dates on www.irishgenealogy.ie. Only the marriage record and the last child Johanna were from the RC church records and all others I found under civil birth records . I only have the name of Cornelius as the Father listed on the marriage record and have no clue where he came from or what happened to him. The marriage record said Michael was from Scartaglin, Co.Kerry and I found on Griffiths Valuation a entry for Michael Leary, and the last thing I found was the 1901 Census showing him still living in Scartaglin with Julia and the 2 youngest girls. Sorry I'm not computer "smart" and don't know how to post links etc.
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Yes but you give no names/dates for their children which means anyone trying to help would have to waste time looking for what has already been found in order to be able to look for them!
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Michael Leary from Scartaglin marries Julia Lawlor from Castleisland on 28 Feb 1871. Fathers: Cornelius Leary and John Lawlor. NO further info on the Fathers.
Children:
Ellen Leary- 08 Jan 1872- Gortglass-
Mary Leary- 26 June 1873- Firies-
Bridgett Leary- 29 March 1875- Firies
Honora Leary- 13 January 1878- Caheragh
Catherine Leary- 10 October 1880- Scrahan
John Leary- 27 August 1882- Coolnageragh
Julia Anne- 21 June 1885- Scrahan
Hanna or Johanna O'Leary-(entered in RC church records) 8 July 1888- Castleisland
1901 Census-
Bawnaskehy, Scartaglin, Kerry
Michael Leary- 54 years
Julia- 50 years
Julia-16 years (Great Grandmother)
Hanna-13 years
Griffiths Valuation- Scartaglin, Kerry
Plot 1- 89 Acres (bog)
Plot 2a- 89 Acres- house office land.
Julia Leary- Queenstown- left 08 May 1902, arriving Ellis Island 15 May 1902-Teutonic
Meeting sisters Ellen (Nellie) and Mary of 40 Park Avenue, New York.
That is all I have.
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Both Michael and his father Corneilius are labourers on the marriage cert,
not farmers so the Michael in Griffiths isn't likely to be your Michael. That Michael has a big farm he wouldn't be called a labourer.
The address on marriage Certs is where the couple were living at the time of the marriage which isn't necessarily where they were born.
The place names where the children were born keeps changing which shows this family were constantly on the move to wherever Michael got work.
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Thank you Sinnan. I now understand the difference from farmer and labourer, so I'm comfortable removing the Griffith valuation record from my thoughts. I also didn't realize that on marriage records they put where they were living at the time of marriage compared to "where they were born", so that now means I have no idea where they were born. As you also said because they moved around a lot when the children were born but stayed in the same basic area just south of Castleisland, Kerry.
Can you offer a opinion on why being they were Roman Catholic, only one child, the youngest had her baptism record in the Church records, where the other children I found their birth records in the Civil Birth records. Maybe because they were always on the move the areas didn't always have a Catholic Church??
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You know they were in Firies, so why not check that Parish Register?
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Can you offer a opinion on why being they were Roman Catholic, only one child, the youngest had her baptism record in the Church records, where the other children I found their birth records in the Civil Birth records. Maybe because they were always on the move the areas didn't always have a Catholic Church??
It's a bit baffling, no civil birth cert but baptised wouldn't raise and eyebrow but not baptised would be very unusual.
I had a quick look this morning and there are two parishes bordering Castleisland that are not on the NLI site, depending on where a family lived their nearest church might be in a neighbouring parish even in a neighbouring county so I think the first thing to do is map where each child was born and see where their nearest church was.
I'd usually use the OSI mapviewer to do this but they changed it lately and frankly it not nearly as good
http://map.geohive.ie/
but still it works
little video on how it works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhUIDhpeR74
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Thanks everyone. Will continue on. Once again very much appreciated your kindness and efforts to help me.
Cheers.
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Gortglass nearest church is Scartaglin, and looking at the Castleisland parish register I can see both names on other baptisms so either we a both need our eyes tested, Ellen was never baptised or for some reason some of the baptisms are missing.
RCC Roman Catholic Church
Ch. Church of Ireland
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Hi Sinann,
I just re-checked the Church Records on irishgenealogy.ie and I could only find a birth record with parents Michael and Julia Leary for a Johanna Leary- 08 July 1888- Castleisland?? As mentioned before all other children I found in the Civil birth section. After researching further today, I found that some of the family emigrated to America via Ellis Island, so that would explain the sudden disappearance of the family after the 1901 Census. It would appear that one by one the daughters went over, worked, then sent money back for another sibling to leave Ireland. My GG left in 1902 and then I found Michael, Julia and the youngest child, Hanna came together in 1903.
Thank you again for all your time and effort in helping me. I have a map with the areas where the children were born attached to my research thanks to you!!!
Cheers.
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Great that you found the parents, and great they got to join their children in America so many parents grew old alone in Ireland with their children scattered to the winds. Not having land would have made it easy for them to leave.
My next question was going to be did you know what happen to Hanna so that's sorted. The baptisms is rather odd but at least you have the birth certs.
Thanks for letting us know.
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Found one ;D
I'd only looked for Ellen before
Number 16
Honora 1878
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634270#page/116/mode/1up
It's better to look through the register yourself rather than rely completely on other people transcripts.
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Number 118 Mary 1873
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634270#page/48/mode/1up
Number 56 Bridget 1875
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634270#page/74/mode/1up
Number 137 Catherine 1880
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634270#page/149/mode/1up
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NIL site stops at 1880 but Irish Genealogy has transcripts for later
John O'Leary 1882
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mn1/
Julie 1885
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mn2/
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Just a matter of looking for them.