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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Wiltshire => Topic started by: kingpettey on Saturday 01 September 18 21:32 BST (UK)
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John King 1803 born on sea lived in Tetbury. Quite possibly parents (William 1767 Langford and Mary 1774 Downton) and ancestors lived in same places. So seeking thoughts why he would be born on sea?
Thanks
Ray
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Where does that information come from "born on sea"
Maybe his father had a barge or sea faring occupation.
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He is on the 1851 in pencoyd Herefordshire with wife and family, occupation labourer.
Pencoyd is near the navigable river wye, which joins the Severn at Chepstow, there may be a connection to the sea there.
Mike
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A few threads on this.
Mike
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1841 census gives born on sea.
I can understand his father being on the sea but why his mother?
Ray
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1841 census gives born on sea.
I can understand his father being on the sea but why his mother?
Ray
Honestly,all I can do is speculate.
Born on a canal barge or river boat (technically not "at sea", but it could be stated as such)
Born on a passenger vessel (may be unlikely unless the family had money for fares and were moving around)
Born on a deep-sea fishing boat (very unlikely)
Born on a coastal fishing boat or coastal trader (quite possible)
The wife may have been helping the husband earn a living up to the last days of pregnancy.
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At least 2 trees on Ancestry have him 02 Jan 1801 born Limburg Netherlands, but neither give their source. They have a baptism 08 Feb 1801 in Landford, Wiltshire - father William and mother Mary. Maybe he was born on the voyage from the Netherlands to the UK?
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1841 census gives born on sea.
That's not something I would expect to glean from the 1841 census. Do you mean 1851?
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He was born during Napoleonic Wars. Men were conscripted/encouraged to join army, navy, militia. A percentage of ordinary soldiers were allowed to take their wives who acted as cooks, washerwomen (kept lice at bay) and nurses. The wars went on for a long time. Quite a few babies were "born at sea" or abroad or in Ireland during this period.
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I may have read the original post with a different view?
"Born on sea" immediately made me think it may have been a place name as I've heard of e.g. Clacton 'on Sea' & Southend 'on Sea', I'm sure there will be others?
Born 'at sea' would be something different i.e. do we know which is correct?
Annie
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I agree with you Annie. That was my first thought as well. I wondered if the word 'Born' should be a place name. :-\
Possibly an error on the census, or an error in interpreting the place name written on the census?
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It certainly is an unusual way of phrasing it, people would usually say “ born at sea.”
Was he still alive in 1861, what does that say?
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I think he died in 1854. There are two John King deaths in Ross RD in the June quarter per the GRO index, one age 65 and the other aged 54. Wife Mary Ann is a widow in the 1861 census.
Confusingly there's a death announcement in the Hereford papers (6 and 10 May 1854): "At Pencoyd, in the 50th year of his age, Mr John King, much lamented by his family and friends".
In the 1841 census he's not born in county and not born in Scotland Ireland or Foreign Parts.
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I agree with you Annie. That was my first thought as well. I wondered if the word 'Born' should be a place name. :-\
Possibly an error on the census, or an error in interpreting the place name written on the census?
Wonder if it could have been Burnham on Sea - in Somerset and just south of the mouth of River Severn. The "on Sea" bit was added to the name of Burnham, certainly by 1868 but possibly earlier.
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How about Burnham on Sea 🤔
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Looking at the 1851 census there's many folk 'born on sea' and variations such as -
On the Sea
Born on the Sea
On the Sea British Subject
On the Sea Near, Gibraltar
On Board Ship at Sea
On the High Sea
as well as those listed as 'born at sea' and 'at sea'
M
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Ray has been searching since 2008 for this elusive direct ancestor without any luck :)
I am still thinking “born on the high seas”. as a possibility, but maybe his mother did not know she was pregnant when she left these shores, or, as has been suggested, her husband was in the army.
In which case she may have returned but the child’s father may have been killed in the war and she married a King after her return.
Since all we can do is speculate I am wondering if his mother was a lady’s maid accompanying her mistress on the “grand tour” and gave birth on the way home.
My thinking is that johns move to pencoyd, and his descendants working as gardeners on large estates suggests that he was influenced by his employer.
Either way he may not have been born a King, would a husband and wife set out on a sea voyage knowing that a child was on the way.
Mike
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It could be worth contacting the owners of the trees I mentioned earlier as they give a date and place of birth - 02 Jan 1801 born Limburg Netherlands, but also have him as born on sea.
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Apologies - yes 1851 census ( I put 1841).
Thank you for all your thoughts. Even if you confine King just to Tetbury and later Pencoyd it's a very popular name as is William and Mary.Thus which is the right one. Add in other areas and John King seems to be everywhere.
As mentioned in another thread (somewhere here, Pencoyd? - only have mobile access ) I mentioned male King tan very easily so born overseas connection seemed likely, but I'm not so sure.
Another thought is a criminal record so he wanted to hide his birthplace thus chose born on sea?
It's not knowing or at least a high probability that bugs, but such is life.
Once again thanks.
Ray
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Sadly not on ancestry (except library) at the moment so can't contact tree owners.
Indeed yes was he a King or just chose a common name to hide his real name?
Ray
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Since all we can do is speculate I am wondering if his mother was a lady’s maid accompanying her mistress on the “grand tour” and gave birth on the way home.
I doubt a member of Quality would have been embarking on a "grand tour" of Europe at war. Battlefield tours? Although the lady may have been an army or navy officer's or diplomat's wife. Holland was an ally of Britain.
Another birth I recall during this period was variously "at sea" or "Dublin". Father's militia regiment was stationed in Ireland for 2 years prior to son's birth. I imagined the poor woman having labour pangs as she boarded the ship at Dublin and giving birth before it docked at Liverpool.
Other incidents from same era were troop ships wrecked with several women & children among those drowned. I think one ship was in a harbour waiting to depart when a sudden, violent storm occurred.
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It could be worth contacting the owners of the trees I mentioned earlier as they give a date and place of birth - 02 Jan 1801 born Limburg Netherlands, but also have him as born on sea.
May be worth a request on the Europe board for a look-up for that birth date/place?
Annie