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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: heywood on Saturday 01 September 18 21:34 BST (UK)
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Hello everyone,
Please could you help me work through this.
My Ancestry results show four ‘2nd cousin matches’.
A shows 247 centimorgans across 12 segments.
B = 234 across 13
C= 228 across 13
D= 210 across 12
B is a known child of a first cousin and therefore shares ancestry with me through both paternal grandparents
C and D are known second cousins (first cousins to each other) and share ancestry with me through one paternal grandparent (their grandparent being a sibling to mine)
A is a shared match to B and D but not C.
I am told that one of A’s parents was adopted.
Is this right?
A is connected through both my paternal grandparents.
A is either my second cousin or 1st cousin once removed.
I hope you can follow this.
Thanks
Heywood
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Heywood, The 'rule' in DNA matching is to find MRCA - most recent common ancestor/s.
B shares grandparents with you, first cousin once removed.
C and D share common great grandparents with you (not one common grandparent), second cousins.
A, B, C and D all share broadly similar amounts of DNA with you, but A and C do not match at all, though they are obviously related (are you sure they don't match at 5th to 8th cousin level, which ancestry won't necessarily show)?
For guidance, refer to Shared cM project -
https://thegeneticgenealogist.com/2017/08/26/august-2017-update-to-the-shared-cm-project/
It is impossible to say what the relationship is, could be as you have suggested, or closer, or more distant.
Sorry to have not been more helpful, bit it will be a question of finding out whether A is older or younger than you, generation wise, what they know if anything about their family tree, etc etc.
Regards Margaret
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Thanks for your reply, Margaret.
I am happy with the known ones.
It is the unknown one. Their parent is my generation and unknown family origins which cannot be traced.
As you can tell, my view of this is very simple and I can see that it is more complex than I thought.
There is no problem - I will continue to try to understand (slowly. :)
Heywood
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If their parent is your generation, it is more likely perhaps to be the first cousin once removed, i.e.A's 'unknown through adoption' parent is your cousin. Or similar relationship.
Less likely perhaps to be 2nd cousin relationship or similar.
Which opens up a minefield really. If you have any cousins who could possibly have given birth to or fathered a child at approximately the time A was born, will you ask the cousin or will you say nothing? You may be able to work it out for yourself, but what are your responsibilities to A and what to your cousin?
Difficult one.
But don't forget, could be, using averages at Blaire Bettinger's site -
Half 1st cousin once removed
1st cousin twice removed
2nd cousin (unlikely, due to generation)
Or more combinations of removed and halved!
A would ideally find closer matches to confirm relationship, at the moment it's a guessing game.
Regards Margaret
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I agree it is a guessing game and I do not think it is my business really to do anything further.
If it is a first cousin, they would most likely be deceased.
That does not mean, I can’t speculate in my own mind but I am not going to share this with any remaining relatives as there is no real evidence and we are all getting older ;)
In addition, my family births are spread over quite a span so there can be several years difference in cousin ages so who knows!
Thanks for your replies.
It is an interesting topic. :)
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Have you looked at your shared matches, which often indicate a common surname amongst them.
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Nova67, Heywood knows how he is connected to 3 of them. The 4th one has no names in common in his/her tree due to adoption.
All 5 of them will find the same surnames in their matches if they are descended from the same great grandparents. All 5 will also have different surnames, depending upon their descent.
It is only A who is perhaps 'looking for answers' and will find common surnames in his/her other shared matches. I would think that Heywood has no access to this information.
Regards Margaret
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Thanks Margaret.
Nova67
A is only following one parental line which can easily be traced.
Our connection has been revealed through DNA but cannot be followed.
Regards
Heywood
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Okay. I have been able to help other’s find parentage through their shared matches. Admittedly, a number of my close family have tested. The common surname became very obvious.
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A will perhaps be able to find answers in shared matches, as you say, Nova67.
Heywood will not be able to find anymore info than he already has by looking at his own shared matches.
My 5th and 7th closest matches, managed by the same person, is very obviously connected to about 10 other matches of mine, descended from the same couple. Predicted 4th cousin.
This test manager has given me no information about her family tree, other than that none of my surnames match with hers, especially the suggested surnames I have given her.
Another very good match came up last week, related to all the others and these two.
I would dearly love to know how they are connected to me and the others, but it is up to her whether she wants to look into it all all.
In Heywood's case, A does appear to want to look into it, so he/she may have more luck, but A will have to do the work, not Heywood, as far as I can see.
Regards Margaret
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Just to say, I know the likely shared names as they are fairly close generations.
The adoption gives no information because the adopted person does not want to search or give information. Nothing has ever been mentioned in my family about such circumstances.
The child of the adopted person is researching the other parent.
I was just curious to know if my conclusions were accurate/possible.
I am not pursuing A’s line at all.
Thank you for your helpful comments.
Heywood
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I found these charts really useful.
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Have you done a 'shared matches' with each of the 4 separately? If so, are there any matches that don't match with the others - particularly those of A and C?
Gadget
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Have you done a 'shared matches' with each of the 4 separately? If so, are there any matches that don't match with the others - particularly those of A and C?
Gadget
I’m trying ::)
Firstly, doing this exercise Gadget, has shown me I was jumping to a big conclusion re A ‘belonging’ to my paternal line through both grandparents as I had matched A to a wrong person. However -now sorted.
I don’t want to bore everyone with this and apologise if I have not done this correctly.
Shared Matches with me.
‘2nd cousins’ as before
A shares B and D
B shares A, C and D
C shares B and D
D shares A, B and C.
I know that B is my first cousin’s child and links to both paternal grandparents
I know that C and D link to one paternal grandparent and are first cousins to each other.
‘3rd cousins’
I have 15 matches showing.
6 share with A,B,C and D
2 share with just B
2 share with A and B
2 share with A, C and D
1 shares with B, C and D
1 shares with just C
1 does not share with this group so presumably my other parent’s side.
I haven’t gone into 4-6 cousin matches for here but there are variations and also common matches.
Looking at the above, I assume that , A must have a similar connection to me.
I haven’t contacted majority of 3rd cousins and there are no trees.
I think I prefer my ‘magic’ theory of DNA. :)
Heywood
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I think I prefer my ‘magic’ theory of DNA. :)
It's getting the right spells that we need . Maybe it's algebra that we need:
A2 = ((C +D)3-B4)x ;D
It took me a couple of months to work out that little group that I told you about but eventually I got there, even re-doing some hair raising trees! Some matches hadn't linked their trees to their DNA either, so I had to go to the ones that were listed in their profiles!
Let us know when you work it out - it's fascinating :)
Gadget
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I think I prefer my ‘magic’ theory of DNA. :)
It's getting the right spells that we need . Maybe it's algebra that we need:
A2 = ((C +D)3-B4)x ;D
Gadget
If somebody had told me that a year ago, I could have saved myself a lot of trouble.
Back to DNA results this evening to see if it works. You deserve an award for that. I'll nominate you tomorrow. :D
Regards Margaret