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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: RobinRedBreast on Monday 03 September 18 11:38 BST (UK)
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Hello There,
The above people were my 7x great grandparents.
They had a Clandestine marriage at The Fleet Prison. On the original image on Find My Past, it states that John was a Weaver of Stepney, and was a Batchelor. It also states that Mary was a minor.
There are a few family trees on "Ancestry" that give John's father as Robert Fleetwood and Jane Perry, married in 1713. They have John being baptised in 1720, at St. Andrew Undershaft, London. This Robert was baptised on the 7th of March 1685, in London. That Robert was the son of another Robert who was baptised in 1659 in Chalfont St. Giles. His father George was a Regicide in the Civil war, and was knighted in 1656 by Oliver Cromwell.
Anyway, regarding the origins of John Fleetwood who was married in 1742, I have come across a few queries:
The John Fleetwood baptised at St. Andrew Undershaft, in 1720 may well have been a son of Robert Fleetwood who was a Glass Seller. And on both Find My Past, and on Ancestry, there is the original image and transcriptions of John Fleetwood in 1735 becoming an apprentice glass seller:
"Apprentice year 1735
Livery company Glass-seller
Details Fleetwood John, son of Robert, citizen and glass seller (deceased), to John Fleetwood, 19 Jun 1735, Glass-sellers' Company
Father's occupation citizen and glass seller":
"London Apprenticeship Abstracts, 1442-1850 Transcription": Find My Past.co.uk: © Cliff Webb.
This John's father, Robert was buried in 1721 at St. Andrew Undershaft.
If this is the same John Fleetwood who married Mary Mucklow in 1742, it just seems strange to me that his occupation would have been put down as a Weaver. Unless of course he decided to not finish his apprenticeship/ came upon hard times and then became a Weaver?
There is another baptism of a John Fleetwood on Find My Past, who was a son of another John Fleetwood who was a Weaver of Cinammon Street, Wapping. This is right near to Stepney.
But the only problem I have found with that is this John's full name was put down as: John Eaton Fleetwood. Also, he was baptised in 1729, and I think the transcription on Find My Past, gives his age as being 16 days at the time of his baptism.
If this was the same John Fleetwood who married in 1742, you may think that on the original image, they would both be put down on the register as minors would they not?
John and Mary's first child John Fleetwood, seems to have not been baptised until three years after their marriage. He was baptised in Whitechapel on Christmas day, 1745.
So this may give some weight to the fact that Mary Mucklow was indeed a minor when she married in 1742.
The only Mary Mucklow that I can find was a daughter of a William Mucklow, and Alice baptised in Holborn. The first one was baptised in 1730. And then according to the transcription on Find My Past, there was another one baptised with the same parents names in 1732 in Holborn.
This would mean that Mary Mucklow would have been 10/ 11 years old at the most when she married John Fleetwood in 1742.
Does anyone please know if 10 or 11 was around the age that some girls may have had a Clandestine marriage at? I can't seem to find any statistics regarding ages for these times.
Any information regarding this would be gratefully accepted.
Thank you very much. :) ;)
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Hello
Have you seen the settlement certificate for John Fleetwood in London Lives for 1789.
He says 13 years ago -1776 he was in Spitalfields lodging at Flower de luce Crt Spitalfields and now he is at St Botoplh Aldgate with no settlement since.
Frustratingly there is no mention of his occupation.
There is a baptism of a John Fleetwood at St Botolph Aldersgate 10.10.1715 s of Miles and Ann Fleetwood.
Miles and Anna seem to have moved to Shoreditch for the baptism of their daughter Frances 26 Dec 1728.He is described as a Gent of Moorfields.
Also on the site is the PCC Will of John Fleetwood glass seller in 1760 who presumably is the son of Robert.(Full entry on Ancestry mentions son Robert and nephews and nieces).
ps there is a Mary Muckle d of John a baker of Ratcliffe baptised at Stepney 22.3.1722 .
Could that be her?
Ciderdrinker
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I researched the Fleetwood family of Glass-Sellers carefully about six years ago (looking for a connection to my own Fleetwood line, which turned out not to exist.). Extensive research had been done on the family by others before me.
I can guarantee that your weaver is not related to the Glass-Sellers of St Andrew Undershaft.
I apologize for stating this baldly without providing evidence to back it up, but my memory of the family is now hazy. I do recall that one John Fleetwood of the Glass-Sellers family married Barbara Wynne in 1754.
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Hello
Have you seen the settlement certificate for John Fleetwood in London Lives for 1789.
He says 13 years ago -1776 he was in Spitalfields lodging at Flower de luce Crt Spitalfields and now he is at St Botoplh Aldgate with no settlement since.
Frustratingly there is no mention of his occupation.
There is a baptism of a John Fleetwood at St Botolph Aldersgate 10.10.1715 s of Miles and Ann Fleetwood.
Miles and Anna seem to have moved to Shoreditch for the baptism of their daughter Frances 26 Dec 1728.He is described as a Gent of Moorfields.
Also on the site is the PCC Will of John Fleetwood glass seller in 1760 who presumably is the son of Robert.(Full entry on Ancestry mentions son Robert and nephews and nieces).
ps there is a Mary Muckle d of John a baker of Ratcliffe baptised at Stepney 22.3.1722 .
Could that be her?
Ciderdrinker
Hello there,
I haven't seen the will of John Fleetwood dated 1760. I don't subscribe to Ancestry. I did not see the baptism of John son of Miles either. Thank you.
I will look at the baptism of Mary Muckle, Stepney in 1722.
I must admit though, I'm edging more towards her being the daughter of William baptised in either 1730 or 1732: If she was that age at marriage it may explain why there were no baptisms of children between the pair (that I can find anyway), before three years into their marriage.
And also, if Mary was aged 20 at the time of marriage would she still have been put down on the register as a minor?
Thank you. :) ;)
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I researched the Fleetwood family of Glass-Sellers carefully about six years ago (looking for a connection to my own Fleetwood line, which turned out not to exist.). Extensive research had been done on the family by others before me.
I can guarantee that your weaver is not related to the Glass-Sellers of St Andrew Undershaft.
I apologize for stating this baldly without providing evidence to back it up, but my memory of the family is now hazy. I do recall that one John Fleetwood of the Glass-Sellers family married Barbara Wynne in 1754.
Okay, that rules those out then. Thank you. I don't suppose you remember coming across a Miles Fleetwood who married an Ann/ Anna do you? :)
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I don't suppose you remember coming across a Miles Fleetwood who married an Ann/ Anna do you? :)
Sorry, I don't have any knowledge of that marriage. It's not a Glass Seller family marriage.
Generally speaking, the first name Miles is associated with the Fleetwoods of Aldwinckle in Northamptonshire.
If you would like, I can send an email to a Fleetwood researcher with whom I have corresponded over the years (but not recently) to draw her attention to your thread. She has an interest in all known Fleetwood lines.
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I don't suppose you remember coming across a Miles Fleetwood who married an Ann/ Anna do you? :)
Sorry, I don't have any knowledge of that marriage. It's not a Glass Seller family marriage.
Generally speaking, the first name Miles is associated with the Fleetwoods of Aldwinckle in Northamptonshire.
If you would like, I can send an email to a Fleetwood researcher with whom I have corresponded over the years (but not recently) to draw her attention to your thread. She has an interest in all known Fleetwood lines.
If you could do that please that would be fantastic.
Thank you very much. :) ;)
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I have sent the email with a link to your thread.
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I have sent the email with a link to your thread.
Much obliged. :)
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It appears I have just found out that Mary Mucklow was not the child of William and Alice Rogers.
There was a Mary Mucklow of St Andrew's Court, Holborn who was buried on the 28th of February 1735:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBOR/COLB/1213/029608
I think last time I went to the library and viewed the baptism of Mary from 1732 on "Ancestry" St. Andrews Court was the address given.
These are the baptisms of children of John Fleetwood and Mary Mucklow that I found:
John - baptised Christmas day 1745 in Stepney.
Then the rest appear to have all been baptised in Bethnal Green:
Charles - baptised 19th of June 1747.
Elizabeth - born in Bethnal Green on 10.12.1748. She married Charles Thurston Stanley in Shoreditch on the 23rd of August 1770. Charles died in Whitechapel on the 1st of May 1819, three days after stabbing himself in the stomach with a knife. He was also a Weaver. Elizabeth died in Whitechapel earlier that same year. These were my 6x great grandparents.
Sarah - bap. 17.09.1752
William - bap. 08.12.1753
Thomas - bap. 23.10.1758
Mary - bap. 23.01.1760
Henry - bap. 13.05.1761
Ann - bap. 02.01.1764
Thanks. :) ;)
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I have been following your conversation with great interest! Having researched the Fleetwood Glass Sellers for quite a while I can confirm that there is no connection.
Having had a look at both records for the marriage of John and Mary I think that they do not state that Mary was a minor, but a spinster - spr. She could have married below the legal age of 12, but equally she could have married against her family's wishes.
As a weaver, John would not have been well off and i suspect would not have married until he had completed his apprenticeship, which would make him at least 21, under the usual arrangements. He could have been a lot older.
Have you made any progress with finding the burials of John and Mary?
That is such a sad story about your 6 x great grandparents. It must have been quite a shock when you made the discovery about how their lives ended.
Good luck!
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P.S. John Fleetwood bap. 10 October 1715 St Botolph Aldersgate, son of Miles and Anna, was buried 13 October 1715 St Giles Cripplegate.
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P.S. John Fleetwood bap. 10 October 1715 St Botolph Aldersgate, son of Miles and Anna, was buried 13 October 1715 St Giles Cripplegate.
Okay, thank you. So that rules him out then. :)
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I have been following your conversation with great interest! Having researched the Fleetwood Glass Sellers for quite a while I can confirm that there is no connection.
Having had a look at both records for the marriage of John and Mary I think that they do not state that Mary was a minor, but a spinster - spr. She could have married below the legal age of 12, but equally she could have married against her family's wishes.
As a weaver, John would not have been well off and i suspect would not have married until he had completed his apprenticeship, which would make him at least 21, under the usual arrangements. He could have been a lot older.
Have you made any progress with finding the burials of John and Mary?
That is such a sad story about your 6 x great grandparents. It must have been quite a shock when you made the discovery about how their lives ended.
Good luck!
Hello there,
I looked at the original image on Ancestry, and to me I thought it did say minor originally, sorry. I just had another look and it says "at (somewhere?)" or it may have been the initials of the Curator/ Vicar?. I haven't been able to find a burial for either John Fleetwood, or for Mary.
I see that some trees on Ancestry have John Fleetwood's year of burial as being 1788. I haven't managed to look into this, or where those trees got that information from.
Well, it's a shame I haven't been able to find a link to the Fleetwood Glass - Sellers of London:
On one line of their ancestors, Katherine Denny, wife of George Fleetwood, you can trace a line back to King Edward I.
Also, Bridget Spring, wife of Sir Thomas Fleetwood (1518-1570), was an 11x great granddaughter of King John.
Oh well, you win some you lose some! :) ;)
Ragarding the birth of Mary Mucklow:
I believe now that she was baptised: "Mary Muckle" in Ratcliff, Stepney, London in 1722.
The father was John, a Baker.
A Jane Muckle was baptised in Stepney in 1720. Her father's name was John and I think her mother was a Margaret.
A John Mickloe was baptised in 1742 in Stepney. The father again was a John and the mother was a Mary Ann. The father's occupation was put down as a: "Barber."
There are transcriptions of Clandestine marriages in London for people with the surname of "Mickle" or "Mickloe". Not many for "Mucklow" between 1730-1750:
Elizabeth Mickle in 1737 had a Clandestine marriage and married Frank Bollott. He was a Weaver of Spitalfields.
John Mickloe, a Weaver of Spitalfields had a Calndestine marriage in 1744.
Charles Mickloe, a Weaver of St. James, Dukes Place (which is near Stepney again) had a Clandestine marriage in 1750 and married Sarah Brown.
Thank you. :) ;)
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French Protestant Church/ Spitalfields
Jeanne Fleetwood born 12 February 1744 bap 11 March 1744, parents Jean Fleetwood and Marie Mucklow. (read John and Mary)
ref Non Conformist Church listed on ancestry.
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John Fleetwood's marriage took place at Viner's.
I like the Mary Mucklow (variations) bap. 1722 Stepney. Working on how old Mary was likely to be when her last child was baptised, I had a provisional date of 1725 give or take 5 years.
The French church connection is interesting! If this is the same John Fleetwood, I have him being baptised three times - twice as an infant and again as an adult!
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John Fleetwood's marriage took place at Viner's.
I like the Mary Mucklow (variations) bap. 1722 Stepney. Working on how old Mary was likely to be when her last child was baptised, I had a provisional date of 1725 give or take 5 years.
The French church connection is interesting! If this is the same John Fleetwood, I have him being baptised three times - twice as an infant and again as an adult!
Thank you,
So John Fleetwood and Mary Mucklow/ Muckle were married at Viners.
Where else do you have this John Fleetwood being baptised please?
Regarding John Fleetwood senior:
I have disregarded the baptism in 1729 of John Eaton Fleetwood being the same one who married in 1742. He would have been too young. I can now rule out the one baptised in 1720. And the one baptised in 1715.
Thank you. :) ;)
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French Protestant Church/ Spitalfields
Jeanne Fleetwood born 12 February 1744 bap 11 March 1744, parents Jean Fleetwood and Marie Mucklow. (read John and Mary)
ref Non Conformist Church listed on ancestry.
Thank you. I'm just wondering why they would have Mary's maiden surname on the register? Cheers. :)
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I researched the Fleetwood family of Glass-Sellers carefully about six years ago (looking for a connection to my own Fleetwood line, which turned out not to exist.). Extensive research had been done on the family by others before me.
I can guarantee that your weaver is not related to the Glass-Sellers of St Andrew Undershaft.
I apologize for stating this baldly without providing evidence to back it up, but my memory of the family is now hazy. I do recall that one John Fleetwood of the Glass-Sellers family married Barbara Wynne in 1754.
Thank you,
According to a search result on Ancestry, the John Fleetwood who married Barbara Wynne on the 24th of February 1754, was John Fleetwood junior:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/?name=John_Fleetwood&gender=m&marriage=1704_london-england-united+kingdom_5274&spouse=Anne_Bird
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I have been following your conversation with great interest! Having researched the Fleetwood Glass Sellers for quite a while I can confirm that there is no connection.
Good luck!
Do you know what became of the John Fleetwood, son of Robert who was baptised in 1720 please?
The John Fleetwood who married Barbara Wynne in 1754, was a John Fleetwood junior.
I am beginning to think now that my John Fleetwood may have been quite a bit older than Mary when he married in 1742:
There was a John Fleetwood, born April 1706 in Finsbury. Finsbury is only around 2.5 miles from Stepney. This John was baptised at Charter House Chapel. He was a son of Anne Bird, and John Fleetwood who were married in 1704.
I was able to find siblings of this John.
There are only two other baptisms that I could find on Find My Past, in London for a John Fleetwood:
Son of a Robert and Mary, baptised in 1707. I could not find any more siblings for this pair though.
The last one was from a pair who were married at Holy Trinity Minories in 1689:
Son of William Fleetwood and Elizabeth Barrell(?), baptised in 1700.
Thank you. :)
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French Protestant Church/ Spitalfields
Jeanne Fleetwood born 12 February 1744 bap 11 March 1744, parents Jean Fleetwood and Marie Mucklow. (read John and Mary)
ref Non Conformist Church listed on ancestry.
Thank you,
There may possibly be something in this French protestant connection regarding Mary. That may be why the surname over a short period of years was often spelt so differently.
I found this on the internet, which may suggest there could be French origins. This statement on that forum caught my eye:
"It seems to be spelt variously as MICLO, MICLOS, MICKLOE, MICLOX, MEEKLOE as the years pass, I'm sure through Anglicising and mis-transcribing."
Also from that forum there was Ann, baptised 10th of March 1702 at Thread Needle Street. Interestingly for me also she was born in Stepney and her father was a Weaver:
"Anne, daughter of Jacob Miclo, Weaver and Elizabeth his wife in Frying Pan Alley, Stepney parish, Spitalfields parish. Born 29 April.":
https://www.familytreeforum.com/archive/index.php/t-96452.html
:) ;)
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You are correct that the John Fleetwood who married Barbara Wynne is identified as being John Fleetwood Junior of the parish of St Andrew Undershaft.
So he isn't the John son of Robert.
I think John son of Robert is the John Fleetwood whose PCC will was made on 27 December 1759 and proved 17 Jamuary 1760 (& mentioned earlier by ciderdrinker).
He is identified in the will as being Citizen and Glass-Seller of London.
His will doesn't mention either a wife or children - just Nephews (sons of his late brother Robert), Nieces and Grand-Nieces.
As I said earlier, my memory of the different lines in this family is now over six years old. However, Suziq2 should be able to confirm whether this is correct.
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Yes, the information from horsleydown86 is correct.
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Yes, the information from horsleydown86 is correct.
Thank you. :)
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Clarification re the Glass Sellers!
George the Regicide (1623-1672) had a son, Robert (1659-1712), Robert had a son, Robert (1686-1721) and another son, John (1691-1760). Robert (1686-1721) had a son John (1720-1788). This last John was apprenticed to his uncle, John (1691-1760), who died unmarried and left a will. John (1720-1788) married Barbara Wynne, had 7 children died at Walcot Place, Lambeth and was buried in St Mary's Lambeth. All these Fleetwood men were glass sellers.
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Re the baptisms of John Fleetwood jnr, i was getting a bit carried away!
I think he was baptised twice - in 1745 and then again 24 July 1811 at St Matthew, Bethnal Green. The entry states 'John son of John & Mary Fleetwood Born 20th November 1746.' The only John I could find anywhere near that date, whose parents were John and Mary was the John baptised at Whitechapel in 1745. I think that this John went on to marry Mary Ann Read 25 December 1819 St Matthew, Bethnal Green.
John's brother, William, was buried Christ Church Spitalfields 20 October 1806, aged 54 and again, it is the age that seems to prove this one. Whether this link with Spitalfields indicates a connection to the 1789 settlement certificate is something to ponder!
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Clarification re the Glass Sellers!
Robert (1686-1721) had a son John (1720-1788). John (1720-1788) married Barbara Wynne, had 7 children died at Walcot Place, Lambeth and was buried in St Mary's Lambeth. All these Fleetwood men were glass sellers.
Hello thank you,
I thought the John who married Barbara Wynne was also son of a John Fleetwood.
Cheers. :)
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Re the baptisms of John Fleetwood jnr, i was getting a bit carried away!
I think he was baptised twice - in 1745 and then again 24 July 1811 at St Matthew, Bethnal Green. The entry states 'John son of John & Mary Fleetwood Born 20th November 1746.' The only John I could find anywhere near that date, whose parents were John and Mary was the John baptised at Whitechapel in 1745. I think that this John went on to marry Mary Ann Read 25 December 1819 St Matthew, Bethnal Green.
John's brother, William, was buried Christ Church Spitalfields 20 October 1806, aged 54 and again, it is the age that seems to prove this one. Whether this link with Spitalfields indicates a connection to the 1789 settlement certificate is something to ponder!
Thank you. :)
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No, his parents were Robert (1685-1721) and Jane née Perry.
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No, his parents were Robert (1685-1721) and Jane née Perry.
Aha! Yes I had forgotten that couple.
They were the pair I had on my tree on Ancestry before I scrubbed them off after finding this out here.
Did you manage at all to trace these Fleetwood's back to King John, and King Edward I?
I made a list of the ancestors of Katherine Denny who was the grandmother of the regicide George Fleetwood. Katherine was the wife of Sir George Fleetwood, an MP (1564-1620). She was the granddaughter of Sir Anthony Denny. He was king Henry VIII'S most trusted servant. Anyway, Katherine's ancestors can be traced to King Edward I. Via: the Denny's, the Champernowne's (or Champernon's), the Courtney's, and then Margaret de Bohan (or Bohun) wife of Hugh de Courteney, Earl of Devon. Margaret was the daughter of Princess Elizabeth (1282-1316). Princess Elizabeth was the daughter of King Edward I (1239-1307), and Eleanor of Castille.
Bridget Spring, the wife of Sir Thomas Fleetwood, was a granddaughter of Sir William Waldegrave. Her ancestors can be traced from the Waldegrave's, through the Wentworth's, and then the Howard's, then de Cornwall's (Earl's of Cornwall), to a Sir Richard Earl of Cornwall (1209-1272). Sir Richard was a son of King John (1166-1216), and Isabella (1188-1246).
Haha! I found it really interesting finding out all of this. :) ;)
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Yes, apparently a large proportion of the English can trace their ancestry back to Edward I!
Back to your Fleetwood ancestry:
John Fleetwood bap. 2 May 1706 Charterhouse Chapel, Finsbury, also recorded in St Botolph Without Aldgate register, spent a lot of time in Italy, inherited Tadworth Court in 1725 and lived there until he died in 1752. He was buried Banstead, Surrey, 27 February 1752 - not a weaver!
John Fleetwood bap. 4 January 1700/1701 St Andrew, Holborn - his father, William, was a carpenter, so I doubt that John would have been a weaver.
John Fleetwood bap. 4 December 1707 St Anne & St Agnes, London, son of Robert and Mary is a mystery as I have no further information about him or his parents. One to chase up!
Good luck!
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Yes, apparently a large proportion of the English can trace their ancestry back to Edward I!
Back to your Fleetwood ancestry:
John Fleetwood bap. 2 May 1706 Charterhouse Chapel, Finsbury, also recorded in St Botolph Without Aldgate register, spent a lot of time in Italy, inherited Tadworth Court in 1725 and lived there until he died in 1752. He was buried Banstead, Surrey, 27 February 1752 - not a weaver!
John Fleetwood bap. 4 January 1700/1701 St Andrew, Holborn - his father, William, was a carpenter, so I doubt that John would have been a weaver.
John Fleetwood bap. 4 December 1707 St Anne & St Agnes, London, son of Robert and Mary is a mystery as I have no further information about him or his parents. One to chase up!
Good luck!
So the one baptised in 1706 is definitely not mine.
I will chase up the ones baptised in 1700 and 1707:
It could still be the one baptised in 1700, but he just went into another occupation, although he would have been 42 when he married Mary. I think that John's mother was an Elizabeth. John went onto have children called William and Elizabeth. I know that's not saying much at all but at least it's a start, haha!
When I briefly looked up the 1707 baptism, that was the only baptism between a Robert and a Mary
of a child of theirs that I could find. They may possibly have come from another county.
If it is not either of those two, I will probably have to look for baptisms outside the area of London.
But there is another alternative: He could have been possibly born illegitimate, and then adopted the name of Fleetwood later in life.
As I mentioned earlier, there was a John, son of a John Fleetwood who was baptised a few days old in 1729, in Wapping right near to Stepney. He was baptised John Eaton Fleetwood. His father was also a Weaver. If it were not for his age being so young at marriage, I may have plumped for that one. Also if it was him, would he have been put down as a "minor" at the time of marriage?
Regarding a burial for John Fleetwood:
A search result on Ancestry gives two burials for a John Fleetwood:
One in 1763, and one in 1780. I have a family tree on Ancestry, but do not subscribe to it. So I can't view it to view the area where those burials took place, unless I go to the library and view it on their edition for free. I viewed the Clandestine marriage of John in 1742, on Find My Past.
I downloaded the image from Ancestry, from the Library of Elizabeth Fleetwood, and Charles Stanley. They were married in 1770 in Shoreditch. They were both put down as being: "of the parish."
A John Fleetwood, who may have been Elizabeth's older brother/ Elizabeth's father, left his mark.
So there is a POSSIBILITY that John Fleetwood was buried in Shoreditch/ in the area of Shoreditch.
P.S. I since looked into the John Fleetwood baptism in 1706: I think that the John Fleetwood baptised in 1706, may POSSIBLY have been descended from Oliver Cromwell's oldest daughter Bridget: Bridget Cromwell married Henry Ireton. Henry Ireton died, and then Bridget married a Charles (I think his name was Charles), who was a general in the Civil War. This is all according to "hints and suggestions" on Ancestry.com anyway, haha! He may have been Oliver Cromwell's grandson/ great grandson. There was some link with Clerkenwell anyway. And Finsbury is in the area of Clerkenwell also.
Thank you. :) ;)
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Charles Fleetwood married Bridget Ireton née Cromwell. They had 5 children. 2 boys survived childhood to marry. Cromwell Fleetwood (1653-1688) married Elizabeth Nevill and died without issue. Smith Fleetwood (1644-1709) married (1) Mary Hartopp (2) Anne Lechemere and had 11 children. Only one of Smith's sons married and had issue. Smith Fleetwood (c1674-1726) married Elizabeth Athill and they had one daughter, Elizabeth (c1711-1732). This means that no-one with the surname 'Fleetwood' has descended from Oliver Cromwell!
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Charles Fleetwood married Bridget Ireton née Cromwell. They had 5 children. 2 boys survived childhood to marry. Cromwell Fleetwood (1653-1688) married Elizabeth Nevill and died without issue. Smith Fleetwood (1644-1709) married (1) Mary Hartopp (2) Anne Lechemere and had 11 children. Only one of Smith's sons married and had issue. Smith Fleetwood (c1674-1726) married Elizabeth Athill and they had one daughter, Elizabeth (c1711-1732). This means that no-one with the surname 'Fleetwood' has descended from Oliver Cromwell!
Yes, thank you.
I stand corrected. But please not that I typed: "POSSIBLY". If it was not the case, then it was not the case. People can make mistakes. :) ;)
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It is a common misconception! I thought you might like to have the facts at your fingertips, so to speak.
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John Fleetwood bap. 4 December 1707 St Anne & St Agnes, London, was buried at the same church 13 August 1710. A search between 1700-1720 found no further Fleetwood baptisms or burials.
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John Fleetwood bap. 4 December 1707 St Anne & St Agnes, London, was buried at the same church 13 August 1710. A search between 1700-1720 found no further Fleetwood baptisms or burials.
Okay, thanks.
So the only one that leaves me with in London at least, is the baptism of John Fleetwood, in 1700, the son of a William . There may be an extremely thin chance that it could be the John Eaton Fleetwood baptised 1729 in Wapping, the son of a Weaver. But I'm not too confident about that John being mine due to what would have been his low age of 13 at the time he married.
Much obliged.
:) ;)
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The William Fleetwood, who married Elizabeth Barrett 21 March 1688/9 at Holy Trinity Minories, Stepney was a member of the Aldwinkle line, trained in the Middle Temple. William was not a carpenter!
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The William Fleetwood, who married Elizabeth Barrett 21 March 1688/9 at Holy Trinity Minories, Stepney was a member of the Aldwinkle line, trained in the Middle Temple. William was not a carpenter!
So this just was probably the son of another William if that is the case then. If not, then the only other one in London, was the 1729 baptism. :)
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I've been to the Library today and looked at Ancestry and Find My Past.
Regarding possible parents of John Fleetwood son of a William and Elizabeth, baptised in 1700, the closest I could find to Fleetwood was this Clandestine marriage, 24 of July 1692:
"William Flethed (or Flethod), and Elizabeth Roberts."
The original image looks like "Flethed/Flethod" to me.
I could not find any people with baptisms of this surname. So possibly could be a misspelling of "Fleetwood"?
Regarding possible parents of the John Fleetwood baptised in 1729, at Wapping, near Stepney, I came across this Clandestine marriage in 1725:
"(Joh?)n Fleetwood of St. George's, and Mary Symson."
You can only see the last letter of the Fleetwood's Christian name unless you zoom right into the original image. And there definitely looks to me like there are three letters before the "n", the last of which looks like a "h" in the style of other "h's" on the same page.
Just as an aside, there was also a:
"John Fleetwood of Mile End New Town, a Weaver, and Jane Grocer of same, spinster." They were married 24th of April 1698 at St Dunstan, Stepney.
I didn't have much luck looking for burials of John Fleetwood:
The 1763 burial was at St. Andrews Undershaft. He was: "a child of Kensington."
I found one in 1780, but it just stated the name and no age. I forget where in London this was.
There was one buried Dec 29 1788. It just said: "of Wilcot Place."
A John Cook Fleetwood was buried Jul 24 1789, at St. Paul, Shadwell.
:) ;)
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Regarding the parents of Mary Muckle/ Mucklow:
There was a John "Muggall" (as the transcription states on Find My Past) and Margaret Simpson who were married in Stepney on the 29 of September 1719.
Jane Muckle, daughter of John and Margaret was baptised aged one month old in Stepney on the 20th of September 1720. John's occupation was put down as a baker.
When my Mary Muckle was baptised aged 10 days old on the 22 of March 1721 in Stepney, the father was also John, a Baker but no mother's name was put down. No mother's name was put down on the transcription on Find My Past anyway.
:) ;)
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Your finds are most interesting! I agree that the 1692 marriage of William Flethed and Elizabeth Roberts is a good fit for the parents of John bap. 1700. Similarly the 1725 marriage of John Fleetwood (yes, i agree it is John) and Mary Symson fits nicely with the baptism of John in 1729. I think both are unlikely to be the John Fleetwood you are looking for the reasons outlined previously, but I would be happy to be proved wrong!
These weavers could be related, you never know!
The 1763 and 1788 burials are connected with the glass sellers. So far I have no further information about John Cook Fleetwood.
I can confirm that the transcription on FindMyPast for the 1719 marriage for John Muggall is correct. He was a baker from Ratc[liffe] and was probably the John Muckle you have found. The original record in the parish register for the baptism of Mary in 1721/2 does not include the mother's name. Perhaps she was not well enough to attend the ceremony.
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Your finds are most interesting! I agree that the 1692 marriage of William Flethed and Elizabeth Roberts is a good fit for the parents of John bap. 1700. Similarly the 1725 marriage of John Fleetwood (yes, i agree it is John) and Mary Symson fits nicely with the baptism of John in 1729. I think both are unlikely to be the John Fleetwood you are looking for the reasons outlined previously, but I would be happy to be proved wrong!
These weavers could be related, you never know!
The 1763 and 1788 burials are connected with the glass sellers. So far I have no further information about John Cook Fleetwood.
I can confirm that the transcription on FindMyPast for the 1719 marriage for John Muggall is correct. He was a baker from Ratc[liffe] and was probably the John Muckle you have found. The original record in the parish register for the baptism of Mary in 1721/2 does not include the mother's name. Perhaps she was not well enough to attend the ceremony.
Thank you,
On balance I believe it may be just ever so slightly more likely that my John was the one baptised in 1729. His father was also a Weaver, and baptised in Wapping, which is also very near to Stepney where Mary was born. I originally dismissed it in favour of the 1700 baptism, but now coming around to the idea. I have also noticed that if that is correct, both of their mother's had the surname of Simpson too.
In any case there are no more left to go through in the immediate London area anyway. :)
Yes, I have a feeling that these Weavers could well be related, haha!
The 1744 baptism in Spitalfields of "Jeanne", is transcribed as: "Janne" (Jane?)on Find My Past. This was the French Protestant Church baptism. This means the John baptised in 1745 was only baptised twice, rather than three times. :) ;)
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As I see it, the only way John bap 1729 could be the one who married in 1742 is if his was a late baptism, for whatever reason.
It would be a help if we could find an apprenticeship record, but at this period father/son indentures were becoming increasingly unlikely and I have drawn a blank with the online records.
Quite a puzzle!