RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: CelticMom on Friday 07 September 18 18:17 BST (UK)
-
My grandfather was born in 1924 and died in 1977.
I can't find him on the 1939 register. I am guessing his record isn't open, but i'd really love to apply to see it to try and get some info on where he was at the time.
He was fostered from a young age (never adopted).
The only issue is I have no idea where he was living at that time. Is the a way to access his record with limited info?
Thanks in advance.
-
Hi Shevy
It's a tricky one - if the system thinks that the man in question is still alive his name will not even show up in a search. Once the person turns 100yrs + 1 day on FindMyPast that person is 'unlocked'.
However, always worth a search as his death may have been 'matched' up on the system given he has been gone so long.
If using FindMyPast you could try a search using minimal information. For example: tick male and then use his surname and birth date. This should only return men, with that surname born on that day. So, even if was in an odd place this could locate him. However, if the system still thinks he's alive he wont turn up.
Or, if you know the name of the couple who fostered him - look for them. If you don't know their names you can always search on address.
Hope this make sense.
Good luck
CD
-
to add to california dreamin's helpful advice:
There are two ways to tackle this - forwards and backwards
When and where was his last known location before 1939? If you know which school he attended they might be willing to check their records. f you have an address (or a town) and the names of foster parents, they might be traceable on the 1939 Register. If there are closed records at the address you would need to see if they are accounted for by foster parents' children.
When and where was his earliest known location after 1939? His place of marriage might help (but many servicemen didn't go back to their home towns after demob and others moved around to find work) His service record (if he was in the Armed Forces) should give his address when he enlisted.
As far as I know (I've not used it) FindMyPest has a facility for unlocking a record (if you know which one!) but you would need to supply a death certificate.
If you post the details you have, we may be able to help with the search.
Philip
-
I'm somewhat surprised this record is not open seeing as he died in 1977. My parents died in the 1990's and both their records are open without any input from me.
Did your grandpa die in the UK or abroad?
-
My grandfather died in Scotland. So this could be why he doesn’t show up on there?
Sadly I have no idea where he would of been living at that time other than it was possibly London/Middlesex area. In fact we knew very little about his life before he met my grandmother. Most was uncovered when I started my research in 2003 wanting to know more about him and where he came from.
We only know he was in care from a young age and joined the Navy when he was 16. A couple looked out for/fostered him while he was in the navy, but he wasn’t with them in 1939.
-
If he was in Scotland in 1939 then no, he won't appear on the 1939 as that was England and Wales only.
The fact that he died in Scotland doesn't mean he was living there in 1939. Are you willing to share his name with us? If so the Rootschatters can have a go and see if they can find him. We love a challenge. ;D
-
I'm somewhat surprised this record is not open seeing as he died in 1977. My parents died in the 1990's and both their records are open without any input from me.
Both my parents died in London. My mother died in 1974 and her record was open. My father died in 1958 and his record was closed.
I had to send a copy of his death certificate to Find my Past before they would open it.
I still cannot understand the logic. I assume some people fall through the net.
-
Hi Shevy
If he was in the Military in 1939 he will not appear in the 1939 Register.
With regard to people who have passed away - the system does try to match up deaths however it doesn't pick up everything. The register was maintained by hand until the mid 1990s. Also for example my mum died in another country. The system has no way of knowing this. I could submit the d/c if I wanted however I do not feel the need to do this.
CD
-
If he was in Scotland in 1939 then no, he won't appear on the 1939 as that was England and Wales only.
The fact that he died in Scotland doesn't mean he was living there in 1939. Are you willing to share his name with us? If so the Rootschatters can have a go and see if they can find him. We love a challenge. ;D
Just to clarify. The 1939 Register covered the whole of the UK. The procedure for access to the Scottish part of it is explained here:
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/nhs-central-register/about-the-register/1939-national-identity-register-and-how-to-order-an-official-extract
Imber
-
Hi
I have struggled to find some of my ancestors in 1939 register but I have found some of them by putting just the forename or surname and date of birth.
John
-
He definitely wasn't in Scotland in 1939, he didn't move there until later after he met my Gran and married her. He did die in Scotland though in 1977.
I also don't believe he was in the Navy until he was 16, he was 15 in 1939.
thank you for your help and replies.
-
Hi
I have struggled to find some of my ancestors in 1939 register but I have found some of them by putting just the forename or surname and date of birth.
John
I tried that too, but sadly no luck. I did find another ancestor though by doing that. It's useful you can search by date of birth. (if you know it of course)
-
I found quite a few people missing from the 1939 Register who should be there if they are deceased and it is frustrating.
You should be able to trace him from voting registers once he was old enough to vote but that would be after the war not in 1939, I found my great-grand father that way (he separated from his wife and everyone thought he had moved away from his family but it turned out he was living just around the corner).
-
Have you applied for his service records? You say he was in the Navy so you should be able to obtain them.
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records
Read the information and decide if you wish to apply for the records. It costs £30.
-
Hi
Just been doing some research today and I had another one missing in the register, I tried all my tricks and ten I found her with her married daughter. They had a bad transcription of the name but the date of birth was right but they had the wrong year, it was 2 years out.
Did the hospitals and orphanages use the full names or did they just use initials?
John
-
As the register was used for ration books/identity cards I would think full names would be required.
-
Have you applied for his service records? You say he was in the Navy so you should be able to obtain them.
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records
Read the information and decide if you wish to apply for the records. It costs £30.
Hi wasn't in the Navy till aged 16, he would of been 15 in the 1939 register. I do have a copy of his records already and sadly they gave very little info.
-
Such a shame that his service records give so little information. :(
I take it that you are not willing to give us his name so that we can try looking for him as well?
-
I can give his name - it was Francis William Clarke born 30 March 1924
-
I'm just wondering if he hasn't been opened because he died in Scotland and FindMyPast don't have access to Scottish death records.
A quick look on Google suggests that Scottish deaths are not picked up on by Find My Past. Does anyone agree with that or have I got that wrong?
Shevy did you say that you found the people that he lived with in the 1939? If so were there any closed records with them?
I'm not sure how you open a closed record for someone for whom you have a death certificate but don't know where they were in 1939.
-
I don't think Scottish deaths are on FindMyPast.
It might be useful to contact them and explain your problem...you have a date of death but not sure where he was living.
-
Hi
I have found a record for an ancestor in the 1939 register that died in Scotland.
John
-
I have several living relatives (less than 100) who are visible on the register (as is a friend’s dad who is 93), and a number who should be shown but aren’t. And of course there are those unaligned records where the name doesn’t tie in with the rest of the info. And those with the wrong date of birth.
Have tried my usual tricks but can’t find Francis sorry ☹️
-
Thanks everyone for all your help it’s appreciated.
-
Did the hospitals and orphanages use the full names or did they just use initials?
As the register was used for ration books/identity cards I would think full names would be required.
Correct. Someone I know found his older half-sister recorded with full name and date of birth - then realised that she'd been put in the local orphanage.
Elsewhere my great-aunt, a nun, was listed at the convent under her 'civilian' name. Nuns have to eat just like the rest of us ;D
Carol
-
As the register was used for ration books/identity cards I would think full names would be required.
I have found full names used for people in mental instututions, so they were standard.
Though I have not checked personally, I understand that even the royal family appear (and had identity & ration cards).
-
Though I have not checked personally, I understand that even the royal family appear (and had identity & ration cards).
They are listed under Buckingham Palace
His Majesty The King
Her Majesty The Queen
Stan
-
No one seems to mention Ancestry.com. 1939 Register is on there too.
-
No one seems to mention Ancestry.com. 1939 Register is on there too.
thanks, I've searched the 1939 register on both sites
-
May I suggest that you do as Nanny Jan said in her reply#20?
Write to Find My Past, explain that you have a death certificate for your grandfather but you can't find him on the 1939 Register. Can they help? If you can give them any idea of where he may have been living that would be helpful.
Mention the names of his foster parents as that may help. You never know, he may have been registered under his foster parents surname.
If he didn't join the Navy until after the 1939 Register was taken, then, in theory, he should be on there.
-
May I suggest that you do as Nanny Jan said in her reply#20?
Write to Find My Past, explain that you have a death certificate for your grandfather but you can't find him on the 1939 Register. Can they help? If you can give them any idea of where he may have been living that would be helpful.
Mention the names of his foster parents as that may help. You never know, he may have been registered under his foster parents surname.
If he didn't join the Navy until after the 1939 Register was taken, then, in theory, he should be on there.
thanks, yes I am going to give that a try. It's worth a shot. Just be interested to see where he actually was at that time.
-
Though I have not checked personally, I understand that even the royal family appear (and had identity & ration cards).
They are listed under Buckingham Palace
His Majesty The King
Her Majesty The Queen
Stan
Record of Elizabeth, elder daughter is still closed, I assume?
-
I also don't believe he was in the Navy until he was 16, he was 15 in 1939.
Are you sure he was 16 when he joined up? You could join at 15 I believe - which may explain why you can't find him