RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Lisajb on Saturday 08 September 18 14:57 BST (UK)
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Are there any online searchable lists of WW1 casualties from the USA?
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Not as far as I know but there are WWI service records compiled for several states [Florida, Louisiana, North Carolina and Texas] at FamilySearch:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mob/
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If you know where they were from.
http://www.honorstates.org/index.php?page=wars&war=World+War+I&do=states
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New York originally. My man looks to have enlisted in Chenango - there’s a registration report dated Sept 1918 (that’s pushing it a bit for WW1 service).
He appears in the 1915 NY census, then apart from the enlistment, I can find no further trace of either him or his wife.
He is George Woodman, middle name Walter according to registration report, born 1875 in New York, and wife May (or Mae), maiden name Woodworth, born 1884.
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Not a casualty, but in 1920 there is a George W Woodman aged 44 widower, born New York, living in Clover Hill, Appomattox, Virginia, occupation Carpenter
ADDED - or maybe not, although Mae's birth is 1863?
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/86867506
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Hi Jomot, yes I did find that one, and wrote it off due to Mae’s age...
The date for George’s death on the stone seems to be incomplete, damaged, knocked off - where did you find 1920, and the findagrave entry has the death date as unknown?
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The 1920 can be viewed via Familysearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MJNN-8GT
I also found the headstone puzzling, but perhaps worth investigating further if only to rule it out.
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If that Mae died in 1948 she should appear on 1930/1940 census - I can’t find her! ???
I find US records such a struggle, the country is so big, and so many places!
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The draft registration card that you saw was not an enlistment - all men of a certain age were required to complete them. It doesn't necessarily indicate that they ever served in the military. There are links to lists of NY casualties from WWI here - https://www.militaryindexes.com/worldwarone/index.html - but I didn't see your guy in any of them.
The nearest relative listed on his draft registration card appears to be his mother. To me, that sounds like his wife was probably deceased by then.
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There is a Mae Woodman aged 66 in New York on the 1930 census, so born c1864. Husband shown as William G born around 1878, so I guess the headstone could be them?
Bottom of page:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRHB-8NJ?i=1&cc=1810731
In 1940 she is recorded as Mary Ann aged 75 (1865), and William is 65 (1875)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89MY-2KTP?i=7&cc=2000219
Looks like they married in 1922 - Mae Sutliff (nee Spatzer) & William G Woodman.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FFRL-MKF
The age difference broadly tallies with the headstone, and Google Maps tell me that Charlotteville NY is only about 10 miles from Harpersfield, but if it's them I don't understand why he is showing as George W when everything else has him as William G.
Either way, I think we can probably rule it out as being 'your' Mae due to the year of birth.
That 1920 census in Virginia is still intriguing though.
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There seem to be various mentions of George Woodman & Mrs. George/Mrs. May Woodman in the South New Berlin Bee of Chenango Co. at www.nyshistoricnewspapers.org. The last mention I see of George in that paper is from 14 June 1919 - http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn92061740/1919-06-14/ed-1/seq-8.pdf
There are some mentions from 1918 of Mrs. George Woodman seeing a doctor or being in the hospital, so maybe he didn't include her on the draft registration card because she was sick?
This one from 1920 mentions Mrs. May Woodman of Rome - http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn92061740/1920-10-02/ed-1/seq-6.pdf This one from 27 May 1921 mentions a Mrs. May Woodman of Utica - http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn92061740/1921-08-27/ed-1/seq-7.pdf This one from 1932 mentions Mrs. May Woodman of Oneida - http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn92061740/1932-08-25/ed-1/seq-4.pdf A 1934 mention also puts her in Utica - http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn92061740/1934-08-17/ed-1/seq-1.pdf
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Hi there
Thanks for all this, will look into them.
According to the censuses (is that a word?) with George and May/Mae together, (1910 US, 1905 and 1915) they are in New York (New Berlin, Chenango) in all three, and give New York as their birthplace.
Thanks for the info about registration cards, I learn something every day!
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You might also want to try search for them (and any other family members you know of) at www.fultonhistory.com or www.fultonsearch.org. Those sites haven't been working for me lately and I have heard others complaining of the same issue, but it may be at least partially computer-related. I know they require Adobe Flash, so maybe I need an update or something.
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According to the obituary for George's father William - http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn92061740/1917-03-10/ed-1/seq-1.pdf - George has a sister named Dema Sherman.
According to Dema Sherman's obituary from 3 Sept. 1946 in the Binghamton Press and Sun-Bulletin, she was survived by, among others, brothers Eugene Woodman of Schenectady and George Woodman of Schenevus.
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I found an obituary for a William George Woodman who lived in Titus Lake (which is about a 20 minute drive from the aforementioned Schenevus) and gives his date of birth as 16 Jun. 1875, which is one year off from the date on the WWI draft registration card.
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/23580403/william_george_woodman_obituary
The New York death index lists this man as William G Woodman, age 84, died Harpersfield, Delaware Co., New York on 21 Mar. 1960, Certificate Number 17428.
???
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I found an obituary for a William George Woodman who lived in Titus Lake (which is about a 20 minute drive from the aforementioned Schenevus) and gives his date of birth as 16 Jun. 1875, which is one year off from the date on the WWI draft registration card.
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/23580403/william_george_woodman_obituary
The New York death index lists this man as William G Woodman, age 84, died Harpersfield, Delaware Co., New York on 21 Mar. 1960, Certificate Number 17428.
???
Obit states his burial will be in the Charlotteville Cemetery, which possibly makes him the one on Find-a-Grave and probably married Mae Sutliff (nee Spatzer) in 1922. I think!
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Perhaps its the same man married to two different women named Mae ???
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Have done some more research - George’s May was a Woodworth when they married.
Dema looks to have started life as Lodema. According to census other siblings are Ida, Clara, William David (sometimes reversed), Eugene, and Elizabeth.
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Perhaps its the same man married to two different women named Mae ???
Oh heavens I hope not! Finding George’s and May’s death is difficult enough as it is!
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Looks like they married in 1922 - Mae Sutliff (nee Spatzer) & William G Woodman.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FFRL-MKF
Looking at the image, that was William's 2nd marriage and he was a widower. It gives his birthplace as England, which doesn't fit with the guy in question, and his parents' names as Charles Woodman and Mary Baird as opposed to William Woodman and Harriet Baird. Different guy or same guy confused or trying to deceive?
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Eugene C. Woodman, age 79, died 3 Sep. 1948 in Schenectady, New York. I can't find an obituary for him yet, but maybe that would be revealing on where his brother was.
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Looks like they married in 1922 - Mae Sutliff (nee Spatzer) & William G Woodman.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FFRL-MKF
Looking at the image, that was William's 2nd marriage and he was a widower. It gives his birthplace as England, which doesn't fit with the guy in question, and his parents' names as Charles Woodman and Mary Baird as opposed to William Woodman and Harriet Baird. Different guy or same guy confused or trying to deceive?
Different guy I think/hope!
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This appears to be the obituary for the May Woodman who died in 1948 - https://www.newspapers.com/clip/23590937/woodman_obit/
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Different guy I think/hope!
I'm really not so sure, there are just too many coincidences.
He married Mae Woodworth in 1904 as George W Woodman, and appears in the census with her as George until 1915. Then in 1918 he becomes George Walter Woodman and lists his mother as his nearest relative on the WW1 Draft Registration, implying Mae Woodworth is deceased or they have separated.
He then potentially turns up as a widower in Virginia in 1920, still as George W, then in 1922 marries Mae Sutliff in Otsego - which is where Eugene married 10 years earlier - this time as William G but again claiming to be a widower. As well as his own name being switched his parents forenames don't match (Charles & Mary instead of William & Harriet), but his mother's maiden surname of Baird does. Also, on various records including the draft card his mother is Harriet M - could the M be Mary & he's simply switched to her middle name too?
He then seems to stay as William George, but the death index obit that shellyesq found gives a DoB identical to the draft registration for 'George Walter' (16 Jun 1875) and says he was to be buried at Charlotteville Cemetery, which matches the find-a-grave entry with the older Mae (Sutliff). The corresponding death index gives an address of Harpersfield, Delaware County, which is where William & Mae Sutliff were living in 1930 & 1940 (the 1922 marriage certificate and both census give Mae's PoB as Pennsylvania and put her as 10-14 years older, as does the find-a-gave headstone, so I'm satisfied it's the same couple).
Shellyesq asked "Different guy or same guy confused or trying to deceive?" and on balance I currently think the latter.
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Off topic, but this seems to be a photograph of William & Harriet:
https://smdlocalhistoryblog.blogspot.com/search?q=woodman
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Shellyesq asked "Different guy or same guy confused or trying to deceive?" and on balance I currently think the latter.
I'm kind of on the fence, but there are a lot of coincidences if they are a different guy. The DOB on the obit and WWI draft registration card were off by a year, but that's still pretty close as things were in those days. It doesn't seem like George/William would have had many close relatives at the time of the 1960 death, so it wouldn't have been terribly surprising if the year of birth was bungled in the obit. I agree with Jomot that there may have been a separation/divorce from May #1, especially if those later newspaper mentions I found were her. Maybe keeping that past quiet would have been a motivation for an informal name change.
I don't know if this will be at all helpful in straightening out these issues, but I found a likely marriage of May #2 to Francois Sutliff in 1887. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VF9J-19P Possible census matches for them with son Allison in 1900 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M39Y-K22 and 1910 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MG32-FJ7 Francois died in a mining accident on 11 Feb. 1918 in Shamokin, Northumberland Co., Pennsylvania. May & Allison were in Pennsylvania for the 1920 census - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MFTQ-QL5 In the 1940 census, Allison was in an almshouse near where May and William/George lived - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KQL8-248 Allison died in 1971 - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VMLF-N2Q
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The DOB on the obit and WWI draft registration card were off by a year
One of us is going blind, as I've checked them four times and I see 16 Jun 1875 on both ;D
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A lot to think about.
My big doubt is May - census records put her birth around 1885, yet the gravestone shows 1863, almost 20 years. I just don’t know.
Edit. May 1, that is - assuming George/William married again the 1863 May would be May 2.
Confuzzled!
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I meant to add that there is no birth in England 1870-1880 of anyone called Woodman with the mother's maiden surname of Baird, so the details on the 1922 marriage and later census don't add up.
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I meant to add that there is no birth in England 1870-1880 of anyone called Woodman with the mother's maiden surname of Baird, so the details on the 1922 marriage and later census don't add up.
I think on earlier census, George/Williams father William, who marrued Harriet Baird, gives his birthplace as England. Deliberate or accidental mistake with 1922 marriage and the census, maybe?
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I'm voting deliberate.
For me the mother's maiden name of Baird plus the matching date of birth on the 1960 obit and the 1918 draft card are too much to overlook. And although he's William George after 1922, the headstone reverts to George W.
Finding out what happened to 'Mae 1' seems to be the key, and its odd that I can't find any trace of her before her marriage.
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There is an Oct. 1920 newspaper mention of Mrs. May Woodman of Rome coming to town to move her goods from one house to another and visiting her sister in Pittsfield. That might fit with George running off to Virginia circa 1920 and her needing to get her stuff out of his house. :-\ http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn92061740/1920-10-02/ed-1/seq-6.pdf
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There is an Oct. 1920 newspaper mention of Mrs. May Woodman of Rome coming to town to move her goods from one house to another and visiting her sister in Pittsfield. That might fit with George running off to Virginia circa 1920 and her needing to get her stuff out of his house. :-\ http://nyshistoricnewspapers.org/lccn/sn92061740/1920-10-02/ed-1/seq-6.pdf
From another paper with the Holmesville local gossip. It does appear they went their seperate ways.
NORWICH SUN
Monday , January 5th, 1920
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Superb finds shellyesq and RJ! :)
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Superb finds shellyesq and RJ! :)
I agree!
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So the question now is, what happened to May Woodworth - May 1?
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Potentially interesting find in the Social Security applications -
Mary Nash Coffey
born 18 Sep 1884 in Holmesville, New York
Parents - Watson Woodworth & Helen Lamphere
Claim Date - 1 Jul. 1958 (the claim may be related to retirement, widow's, or death benefits, but unfortunately it doesn't say in this case)
Seems like it would fit her birth and maiden name. I can't find any Mary/May on the census records that fit this family, but the parents seem to be on Find a Grave - https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/160151458
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I think that Mary is a match.
Brother Sidney Woodworth's WWI draft registration card has May Woodman as his nearest relative - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-L16T-9C6J?i=3496&cc=1968530 Here is their family in 1880, which would have been before May/Mary was born - https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZZD-KZD
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There is an entry in the NY state marriage index for Erwin Nash who married Mary Woodworth/Mary E. Coffey on 7 Mar. 1935 in Utica.
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I’m a bit lost now - where does the name Coffey fit in? Should there be a Mr Coffey, after Woodman but before Nash?
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I haven't found that marriage, but I assume it happened in between Woodman and Nash.
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A Mary Woodworth marries a John N Coffey on 25th June 1934 in Shenectady.
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No mention of the Woodman name on either of those marriages - assuming it is her, did she abandon he name entirely. Or maybe not properly divorced and trying to hide it?
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Shellyesq, just wanted to say wow, great sleuthing!
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Thanks to everyone for all the searching you’ve done, your considered opinions, and look ups. I’d never have worked all this out myself.
:D :D
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There is an entry in the NY state marriage index for Erwin Nash who married Mary Woodworth/Mary E. Coffey on 7 Mar. 1935 in Utica.
There is an Erwin L Nash in Utica born about 1877 according to various records
Residence code for Utica is 3202.
These deaths could be them. The ages match up as well as location
YOD File No. First Name Last Name Age Gender Date of Death Residence Code
1966 44452 MARY NASH 81 F 6/24/1966 3202
1965 5162 ERWIN NASH 87 M 1/25/1965 3202
https://health.data.ny.gov/Health/Genealogical-Research-Death-Index-Beginning-1957/vafa-pf2s
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I read that fultonhistory.com (which has a lot of Utica papers, as well as many other upstate New York papers) was attacked by a virus, so it will take some time to be rebuilt. Too bad, as I wouldn't be surprised if there was some info about these folks there.
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Just adding Mae/May/Mary in 1900... William, Harriet & George Woodman are the next but one family on the page:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MS6L-2DV
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I read that fultonhistory.com (which has a lot of Utica papers, as well as many other upstate New York papers) was attacked by a virus, so it will take some time to be rebuilt. Too bad, as I wouldn't be surprised if there was some info about these folks there.
I had a look yesterday - the page will load but it doesn’t seem possible to perform any searches through it.
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There is an entry in the NY state marriage index for Erwin Nash who married Mary Woodworth/Mary E. Coffey on 7 Mar. 1935 in Utica.
There is an Erwin L Nash in Utica born about 1877 according to various records
Residence code for Utica is 3202.
These deaths could be them. The ages match up as well as location
YOD File No. First Name Last Name Age Gender Date of Death Residence Code
1966 44452 MARY NASH 81 F 6/24/1966 3202
1965 5162 ERWIN NASH 87 M 1/25/1965 3202
https://health.data.ny.gov/Health/Genealogical-Research-Death-Index-Beginning-1957/vafa-pf2s
Fulton History seems to be back to being functional. I found an obit for that Erwin Nash, but it includes no mention of a wife. http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newpapers%20Disk2/Utica%20NY%20Daily%20Observer/Utica%20NY%20Observer%201965%20pdf/Utica%20NY%20Observer%201965%20-%200699.PDF
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A step closer confirming some of the details.
Several articles refer to May visiting her sister in Edmeston. That would be her sister Lula May (Woodworth) Simmons. Lula died in 1960.
Lula's obit confirms she is the daughter of Watson and Ida Lamphier Woodworth. It also mentions surviving her is a sister "Mrs. May Nash, of Utica". This confirms that May did marry a "Nash" and we are on the right track.
Middle of page at the top under "OBITUARIES"
Obit: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mqc/
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EDIT -Added
Lula's obit in the Utica paper refers to May as Mary, "a sister Mrs Mary Nash, Utica"
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There is an entry on the NY death index for a John H. Coffey who died 13 Dec. 1934 in Utica. That would fit between May's marriage to John N. Coffey and the one to Erwin Nash. Maybe the initial H or N was misread in one of the transcriptions.
There is one obit that says this John Coffey had a wife, but she isn't named - http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2018/Salem%20NY%20Press/Salem%20NY%20%20Press%201933-1935/Salem%20NY%20%20Press%201933-1935%20-%200604.pdf
Another only mentions 3 sons as survivors - http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2018/Troy%20NY%20Times/Troy%20NY%20Times%201934/Troy%20NY%20Times%201934%20-%204239.pdf
One mentions no survivors, but gives an address and says he was age 44 - http://www.fultonhistory.com/Process%20Small/Newspapers/Utica%20NY%20Daily%20Press/Utica%20NY%20Daily%20Press%201934.pdf/Utica%20NY%20Daily%20Press%201934%20-%204902.pdf
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I'm seeing an obit for a Mrs Mary Woodworth Nash for 27 June 1966 age 81.
Age,location, name, maiden name, DOD all seem to match, but it states she was married to a Robert Nash? Could that just be an error from who gave the information?
Obit in bottom left corner.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mqd/
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This is all wonderful, thank you all so much. I think you have cracked it.
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Would there be any likelihood of finding anything more about John Coffey? There is very little for anyone to go on, an approximate birth year, and I see from one of the obituaries found by RH137 that he lived in Cohoes at some point.
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Would there be any likelihood of finding anything more about John Coffey? There is very little for anyone to go on, an approximate birth year, and I see from one of the obituaries found by RH137 that he lived in Cohoes at some point.
Here's another obit For John H Coffey that was in the Utica Observer.
It give his DOB as well as POB. It also states: "He married May Woodworth who survives."
3rd column from right under - Death and Funerals for Utica.
Obit: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mqe/
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Sons names in censuses matches what was listed in obit.
John H Coffey in 1900 with wife and children.
1900 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MS63-3XX
John widowed in 1910 with sons.
1910 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M5CS-JT1
John married to May/Mary in 1930.
1930 census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4RZ-1JQ
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Good finds! All the pieces are finally fitting.
I don't think this one showed up before...
"George Woodman and Miss May Woodworth were united in marriage on Wednesday evening, at South New Berlin by the Rev. P. G. Ruckman. After spending a few days in Otego they re-returned to his father's home where they are to live. May their lives be ever bright and happy, and sunshine ever
fall upon their pathway."
http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2018/South%20New%20Berlin%20NY%20Bee/South%20New%20Berlin%20NY%20Bee%201904/South%20New%20Berlin%20NY%20Bee%201904%20-%200242.pdf
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Good finds! All the pieces are finally fitting.
I don't think this one showed up before...
"George Woodman and Miss May Woodworth were united in marriage on Wednesday evening, at South New Berlin by the Rev. P. G. Ruckman. After spending a few days in Otego they re-returned to his father's home where they are to live. May their lives be ever bright and happy, and sunshine ever
fall upon their pathway."
http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2018/South%20New%20Berlin%20NY%20Bee/South%20New%20Berlin%20NY%20Bee%201904/South%20New%20Berlin%20NY%20Bee%201904%20-%200242.pdf
Sadly that didn’t seem to be the case, with May clearing the house out, and George living elsewhere >:(
Thank you both once again