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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: theolddear on Monday 10 September 18 11:13 BST (UK)
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I am looking for any information on Thomas Alfred Patrick FLEETWOOD. I have a marriage certificate between his son Alfred Fleetwood and Elsie May Bowthorpe, other than that I can find no mention of him at all. He was supposedly born in 1874 and died in 1947. I cannot as yet find his birth or death.
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Where and when was his son Alfred Fleetwood born?
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If all you have is a mention of him on his sons marriage cert - then where do the birth and death years come from?
Start with the son - when was he born? Have you found him on censuses? On 1939 register? etc. Once you are sure of his birthplace and year, then can he be found on a census with his parents?
One step at a time!
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The son married as Thomas A Fleetwood, Sep qtr 1935 Norwich, did he not?
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Marriage
Jul/Aug/Sep 1935
Norwich
THOMAS Alfred Fleetwood / Elsie May Bowthorpe
(snap avm! we are following the same path!)
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yes thats the one!
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Thomas Alfred Fleetwood born 20/10/1911 died Jun qtr 1993 Norwich.
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Is this his birth? -
Oct/Nov/Dec 1911
Birmingham
6d 246
Thomas Alfred Fleetwood mmn Lees
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What is the occupation of Thomas Alfred, and also his alleged father Thomas Alfred Patrick, from the marriage cert? Also, names of witnesses?
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Other children bn B'ham, Fleetwood mmn Lees
Henry Ap/May/Jun 1909
Leonard same (twins)
Howard Oct/Nov/Dec 1906
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Other children bn B'ham, Fleetwood mmn Lees
Henry Ap/May/Jun 1909
Leonard same (twins)
Howard Oct/Nov/Dec 1906
Parents of this lot are George Henry and Sarah Ann, who seem to have stayed in Birmingham.
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Yes - just saw that and was about to post.
So - "our" Thomas Alfred not the Birmingham birth? That's the only one that would relate to his 20th October birthdate ………….
We need olddear to come back and fill us in with some answers to our questions!!
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Thomas alfred Patrick Warom married Sarah Lees in Birmingham. She was either married or living with George Henry Fleetwood before that. He either died or she left him and when she married Thomas she said she was a spinster. Thomas Alfred Fleetwood was the product of a liason between Sarah and Thomas Alfred Patrick. I think he must have taken the Fleetwood surname as that was the name of all the other children and he didn't want to appear to be illegitimate.
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Thomas Patrick Warom & Sarah Ann Lees, Dec qtr 1913 Birmingham.
Marriage was 4 Oct 1913 at St Stephen’s, Birmingham - both resident at 98 Elkington St.
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Interesting. How did you find that?
He may have been born Thomas Patrick Wareham, Sep qtr 1878 Birmingham.
Died as Thomas P Warom aged 68, Dec qtr 1946 Birmingham.
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I found all that from talking to my friend who had neglected to tell me!
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I found all that from talking to my friend who had neglected to tell me!
:D
Interesting that the child was born in 1911, but she didn’t go off with Mr Warom until 1913.
I don’t think Sarah Ann was actually lawfully married to George Henry Fleetwood, but she appears to have had at least 6 children with him (not including Thomas Alfred).
George went on to marry Ada E Everill in 1920, and died aged 89 in 1965.
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I agree. I don't think she ever married him! Maybe she passed Thomas off as a Fleetwood until she actually married the father! The information came from Thomas Alfreds gr8 grandson. He seemed to think that Thomas Alfred Patrick was Irish but there have been so many things passed down ińcorrectly that that could be a myth but worth investigating.
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Baptism:
Thomas Patricius Woram
Birth 26 July 1878
christening:
11 August 1878
Birmingham, Warwick, England
residence:
1878
Birmingham, Warwick, England
father:
Thomae Woran
mother:
Marie Annae Kelly Woram
Possible marriage:
Marriages Dec 1875
GREEN Thomas Birmingham 6d 445
KELLY Mary Ann Birmingham 6d 445 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
LAMB Mary Ann Birmingham 6d 445
WAREHAM Thomas Birmingham 6d 445 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Link to 1891 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W2KB-P3Z
Link to 1901 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSZY-42W
Death:
Two possibilities for Mary:
Deaths Dec 1898
Warom Mary Ann aged 44 Birmingham 6d 54
Deaths Mar 1899
Warom Mary Ann aged 46 Birmingham 6d 78
Deaths Jun 1905
Warom Thomas aged 53 Birmingham 6d 69
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Thank you for your information which I found most interesting. Do you have a link to the baptism info that you sent. As to the marriage of Thomas, he married Sarah Lees on Oct. 4th 1913 in Birmingham. He gave his occupation as Brass Finisher which tallies with his given occupation in the 1901 census.
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Baptism link: (Note surname spelt Woram not Warom)
https://tinyurl.com/y7xdqvwu
Kate:
Catherina Elizabetha Warham
Name Catherina Elizabetha Warham
Gender Female
Christening Date 06 Jun 1880
Christening Date (Original) 06 JUN 1880
Christening Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Birth Date 28 Apr 1880
Father's Name Thomae Warham
Mother's Name Mariae Annae Kelly Warham
Florence:
Florentia Werom
England Births and Christenings
Name Florentia Werom
Residence Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Gender Female
Christening Date 05 Apr 1885
Christening Date (Original) 5 Apr 1885
Christening Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Birth Date 16 Mar 1885
Father's Name Thomae Werom
Mother's Name Mariae Annae Kelly Werom
Ellen:
Helena Warom
England Births and Christenings
Name Helena Warom
Residence Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Gender Female
Christening Date 19 Sep 1889
Christening Date (Original) 19 Sep 1889
Christening Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Birth Date 05 Sep 1889
Father's Name Thomae Warom
Mother's Name Mariae Annae Kelly Warom
Emily Mary:
Aemelia Maria Warom
Name Aemelia Maria Warom
Residence Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Gender Female
Christening Date 28 Jul 1887
Christening Date (Original) 28 Jul 1887
Christening Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Birth Date 14 Jul 1887
Name Note May
Father's Name Thomae Warom
Mother's Name Mariae Annae Kelly Warom
another child possibly William James:
Name Gulielmus Jacobus Wareham
Residence Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Gender Male
Christening Date 29 Apr 1883
Christening Date (Original) 29 Apr 1883
Christening Place Birmingham, Warwick, England
Birth Date 14 Apr 1883
Father's Name Thomae Wareham
Mother's Name Maria Anna Kelly Wareham
Added:
link to 1881 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27N-C4JM
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Thanks very much for that info and links. Interesting spellings of names.
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Possibilities!
Thomas born c1851 in 1861 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7V5-MWR
Mary Ann Kelly in 1871 census:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD8T-R8V
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Thanks. I will look into this later today.