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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: panished on Monday 10 September 18 20:14 BST (UK)

Title: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Monday 10 September 18 20:14 BST (UK)
 Hi everyone

I am at present looking for all the records related to the Old Gipsy Family named Heron Hurn Hearn Young Herrings and evan more ways of spellings, I am at present trying to connect the written records of all the Gipsy Families of Britain to the stated Census reports and see how the Genealogy of both match up, in turn learning as much as I can and helping everyone who as an interest, many people have down through the years wrote of, and about, Gipsy Families, I will try in my own way to collect also the history of the Genealogy and times of all the Gipsies, it is well known that the Heron Hearne’s are a very Old Romany Family, I was told that many of the northern Gipsy Families have their roots linked to the Herons, I was also told that the Hurns and Dark Young’s are of the same People, I do not know what is true but the People I listened to, I would say were telling the truth, I want to find records of all the Gipsy Families of Britain and share them with everybody who as a love for the People I write about, I know not every Family line as in a direct way, would have been the ones who landed in this Country along with Families like the Boswells and the Smiths, there will be many, maybe most who’s Families joined with the original Romany Gipsies, and there is nothing wrong with that, i think all Gipsy People who came out of the Gipsies are Gipsies, I will try my best and find the truth for everybody. If anybody who reads these words would put on here any related Census reports or records of the People I write about I would appreciate your kind efforts in bringing the truth to all, this below is the first record I have wrote, it is a great record of the times of the mid 1800s if you read into the record there are many truths, if anyone as found records of the People below i would be grateful if you would post them on this thread, I will put everything on that I find in the following pages of this thread about these stated Peoples, i have found many records of Herons Hearnes, some may not connect to the Gipsy People and be just locals, i have found it is best to collect everything, you can then work through the information, do not let evan the name of a magistrate or town hall go astray, records of names like this i have found turn up again in other storys connecting People, it is best i have found to write the full accounts up of all the many records that you may come across while researching, this is what i will also do from now, after this research I will again try my best and search for another Family, i also hope to find every Gipsy Family in Britain, i know this will not be possible so also hope that someone one day will carry on when i am gone, i believe all the Gipsy Families of Britain are Related, in some way they will all connect, the wrong message i think as been wrote down through the yeares, everybody as had their say, this is just me having my own talk, i want to learn as much truths as i can and inturn share the truth, so everybody then may have respect for All of the long Dead, for how could you not respect all of them if the truth came to you.
 
Stamford Mercury
Lincolnshire
Friday 15 May 1857

Wellingborough Petty Sessions
May 11, before C. Sergeant ( Chairman). F.U.Sartoris, J.Young, and H.M.Stockdale. 
Edw, Hearne, marine-store collector, a swarthy son of the Gipsy tribe, was charged by Superintendent Chambers with camping by the roadside and making a fire near the roadside, contrary to the Act. Constable Cowley said he was on duty at Easton on the 19th inst., about 4 in the morning, when he saw a Gipsy camp, near which a fire was burning and a child amusing itself close to it, he apprehended the prisoner, who had been in the lock-up since. Defendant said his usual residence was at Buckden, in Huntingdonshire, and had nine children to maintain, which he did by buying and selling bones, and although his mode of getting a livelihood for himself and family was thought by some to be not of the most respectable kind, his opinion was if persons were honest in their dealings his was equal to any other. When away from home sometimes it was necessitated to rest for the night by the wayside, but he was not in the habit of camping after the Gipsy fashion. A young woman lit a little straw to dry some baby-linen, and which was all the fire that was made. He had never been in custody before. Mr. Chambers stated that farmers of the locality complained of the frequent depredations commited by gangs of itinerant prowlers, and were anxious the mischief should be stopped. Mr. Coleman and Mr. York, farmers. On tendering defendant a good character, he was discharged with a caution on payment of 3.s.6.d. Costs. The wife of the Gipsy stepped forwards and exhibited a shinning sovereign, from which the expenses were taken, and the defendant after a polite bow and thanks to the Magistrates, made his exit.
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 23 September 18 20:51 BST (UK)
Hi everyone 

 This is another record of the Herons that i came across while researching, there is much information that is within the writing that may be used to help people in their research, i will myself return to this record in my later researches, it is full of the most important historical knowledge, i will put more up soon, if any one as any records to help in my research of these Herons i would appreciate your help.

 

Saturday 12 September 1936
Hull Daily Mail
Yorkshire

                                                  THE PASSING OF A GIPSY

                                                 Age-Old Ritual at Bridlington

The ritual which as been going on by the fraternity throughout the centuries was observed at Sewerby, near Bridlington, yesterday, when the funeral took place of Gipsy William Heron, who died at Sewerby at the age of 74. Yesterday afternoon the cortege left Sewerby for Hull, where the internment took place at Chanterlands-Avenue Cemetery.
Gipsy Heron was well known in Hull, and was properly the best-known horse dealer at the annual horse fairs which precede Hull fair. Among his own people he was looked upon has a “King”, and the mourners yesterday included some who had travelled from Scotland Ireland and the South of England to pay their last tributes.

Gipsy Heron was a native of Yorkshire, being born at Foxholes. Since the commencement of the season he had been living in his caravan on a camping field in Sewberby, and had been in in-indifferent health for the past two years. He lived in retirement for the past four or five years.

                                                      CARAVAN BURNED

Prior to the internment, Gipsy Herons caravan, in which where placed all his possessions and personal belongings, was burnt in accordance with the custom of his Race. Before the coffin was borne to Hull, only the ashes and the wheels of the caravan remained.  A special tent had been set up in which Gipsy Heron lay in state from Wednesday until Friday morning. During that time his relative also remained besides the tent. The tent was also burned yesterday afternoon.

The principal mourners were Mr Oscar Heron ( brother), Londonderry: Mr and Mrs F. Pickles. Son-in-law and Daughter: Mr and Mrs Oscar Heron. Son and Daughter-in-law: Mr and Mrs Nelson Pickles (Scotland). Mr and Mrs Herbert Boss. Son-in-law and Daughter: Mr and Mrs Amos Heron. Son and Daughter-in-law. Mr and Mrs E. Gray. Son-in-law and Daughter: Mr and Mrs E. heron. (Son and daughter-in-law), Blackpool: and the following Grandchildren; Ruebin, Amos, and Annie Heron. Dempsey, Victoria and Lewis Pickles. Clones and Alice Heron. Ezra and Zuby Boss. Frampton, Sanie, and William Pasty.
Others present included Mr Herbet Watnel. Mr William Watnel. Mr Tom Fisher. Mr and Mrs E. Boswell. Mr Albert Starr. Mr and Mrs A. Patison. Mr Brown. Mr Noah Heron. Mr Dover Heron. Miss Annie Heron. Mr and Mrs Freer. and Mrs Johnson Hull.
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: whiteout7 on Tuesday 25 September 18 10:30 BST (UK)
I can see a marriage to Nelson Pickles by Sibby Herron in 1922 at St Nicholas Church in Aberdeen. Herron seems to be a common surname in Aberdeen in Scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Nelson Pickles (born 1892) seems to have been living in Dalkeith, Midlothian as a young man.



Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Tuesday 25 September 18 20:10 BST (UK)
Hi

I have not tryed to look for you but would you tell me your first name, i would like to thank you for your kind help, it is received with gratitude behond dout, first i do hope life is keeping you fine, and do you know you will have the greatest of Luck for your Family, you yourself will be remembered down in the many yeares to come, i have read through what you have just wrote and i find your finding very interesting, i must try and stay true to my research, truthfully i just want to go with the wind, but some people dont like the way i write and it is hard for me to understand what they mean, so i now write like this, i will go back later for the search for the Familys connected to the Herons, i will only put the many records of them on now, then Fine People as yourself will put the great writings on you find, that means you can speak for me, the writings you find are now apart of history, well done , i will never forget you, ever, if we never speak again remember i say this in the most honest way forever, i to have came across many many many records of the Herons, lots from Scotland and Ireland to, most if not nearly all are of the locals, but then i come across some that i think are from the Proud Gipsies, i want to help all Gipsy Peoples, the ones who are long out of Their People and the ones who have stayed strong, i think lots of writers were fooled by the Old Gipsies, people think the writers fooled the Gipsies and stole their Truth, but i have been reading thousands of writen accounts of the older times and now i think the Gipsies did a number on the scholors of the past, the trouble is the Old Gipsies are now gone to this world and only left is the writings of the scholors so history only tells us what they thought the Old Gipsies were saying, when i put many records on i will try to decifer the real truth, i believe i know it already, but again i thank you for your kind time in searching as you have, i hope you may find more and never be ashamed or think nothing in a bad way, in writing what you have just wrote you are of a rear kind, never forget that to do a good turn before a bad one is the kindest thing.

michael

now look at this, i found this tonight, just a few minutes ago, i wonder what to make of things, the Pickles are with the Greatest of them all, Well to-do Romany of the Highest Order, do you know the Boswells the fine Lady below desends from round Yorkshire, The Pickles Wed with the Herons and Boswells to name but Two, i wonder who they are.

Gloucester Citizen 1 October 1927
Gloucester Journal 8 October 1927
Market Harborough and Midland Mail 7 October 1927
 
AN OLD GIPSY RITE.

An old rite of the tribe, the burning of her caravan was carried out after the death of Mrs. Pickles (78), a Scottish Gipsy well-known in the Lothians.


                                                     Shield Daily News 1 October 1927
                                                                 Northumberland

                                                                CARAVAN BURNED


                                                Ancient Rite of a Noted Scottish Character.

Following the old-time custom among the Gipsy tribes the caravan of a well-known Scottish Gipsy Woman has been destroyed by burning. The Woman was Mrs Pickles-“Madame Victoria” as she was known; she carried the business of character reading of the hand. She had been a familiar figure to the public of the Lothians and other parts of Scotland for more than thirty years, and for about a quarter of a century had made her headquarters in a caravan near the promenade at Portobello. Edinburgh’s seaside resort. She was the eldest member of the Boswell tribe being 78 years of age, and originally from Yorkshire.
The Lothian’s has been one of the principal centres of the Gipsies ever since these nomads are first reported in Scotland during the sixteenth Century.

Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: whiteout7 on Friday 28 September 18 20:45 BST (UK)
Newspaper reports are good. I think the surname Boss is actually Boswell.

Riley Boss had three wives, Charlotte Hammond, Lucy Boswell and Shurensi (sometimes Susannah) Smith.

Some of Riley Bosses children married Herons and Youngs

http://www.gypsygenealogy.com/showarticle.php?article_id=83

Mel

Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Thursday 04 October 18 20:15 BST (UK)
 Hi Mel

Thank you for the Link to the Gypsy Genealogy Web Site, Eric Trudgill and Anne-Marie Ford are setting the bar with their outstanding contributions in their honest attempt to be as pragmatic as is humanely possible in that desire to learn and share, which is to them I am sure a great passion, they both find themselves in uncharted waters that as yet to be sailed, they are both very lucky indeed to live in this time that will bring great discovery’s  that in turn will be of the greatest benefit to many, I do enjoy reading through their writings, Eric Trudgill writes in a very numerate solid foundational tone, hinged with the slightest of pessimism that all great Historians must cloak themselves in, it is not right to just be a know all, so His wiliness to acknowledge that his own writings though of the highest of standards may well be corrected in a way that they are not false but of the learning curve that was born on the cusp that is the changing of the day and the bringing of the night, how great it is to see through darkness.  Anne-Marie Ford I think as the flow of a poetic Flower, I do not need to say no more, well done and good luck to them both in their future endeavours, and again Mel thank you for being so kind as to send me the Link about Riley Boswell and the connections to the Heron Young’s, who I am at present trying to research and learn about here on roots chat, I am trying to stay with the Herons and not go of in a tangent to much but I to have been finding records of the Boss Boswells that are connected to the Herons Hearne’s Young’s, I will put just a few on my next post to show people who like me try to understand and find more of their real life as in living, what I want to achieve is a way for a researcher to match names up, I truly think all Gipsy People will be connected, there as bean I think a false attempt to separate the Gipsies, this attempt as worked in what I have listened to down through the years’ since the internet brought many people together from many locations and different kinds of lifestyles, I have listened to people from the biggest of the Gipsy names of the past, people from names that many never have known, evan in the slightest way, or evan been wrote about, people with well-known names who think that just be course they have a name that is known from the older writers, well they think this carries something, how strange is that, I have listened to the stories of people whose name as only been wrote about in a derogatory way yet they tell of great Gipsy truths in their talk, any way I am trying to find many records on this thread so that in the stories I find more names or clues will link up and show the connection that binds all Gipsy Family’s, not with the chains that were weaved by the false narrative of the ignorant, for truly many people only wrote in the style of their own day, their own life, their own teachings, and they never evan new this, they never new they were only analysing the life they had lived, often I have read into their writing and it was truley themselves and their own teachings, there are many writers who are and have been searching throughout time, they should have just looked in a mirror and saved themselfs a long journey, they were lost, but the trouble was they may well have found themselves in that tangled vine that is truly trapped in the glizening web, intising is the lure of genealogy history, but their legacy is surely only now in my mind a dirty mess, for every record that a person may find themselves in, represents only maybe just one percent of the times and the doings of that said record, many many times there will be no recorded history, you have to know how to read records, to read that which was never wrote is to learn the real truth, there will be clues, this is where a researcher must transcribe every detail of every account, once you start to learn how to understand you will start to read the unwriten, all Gipsies of the past were switched on, they all new in my mind what is what, they have been underestimated and not given full credit, this separation talk that makes its way in to our time is not right, true many thrive on such talk, they write in supple ways.

Thank you again Mel for the fine link to the Gypsy Genealogy Web Site, I do recommend everybody who as an interest in the ongoing truth to read through the many many thoughtful pages of this vast knowledgeable Web Site by two very good Researches of high calibre. I will put a few things on about the Boss Boswells then I will carry on with my Research for the Herons

michael
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Friday 05 October 18 06:48 BST (UK)
Hi Mel

Thank you for the Link to the Gypsy Genealogy Web Site, Eric Trudgill and Anne-Marie Ford are setting the bar with their outstanding contributions in their honest attempt to be as pragmatic as is humanely possible in that desire to learn and share, which is to them I am sure a great passion, they both find themselves in uncharted waters that as yet to be sailed, they are both very lucky indeed to live in this time that will bring great discovery’s  that in turn will be of the greatest benefit to many, I do enjoy reading through their writings, Eric Trudgill writes in a very numerate solid foundational tone, hinged with the slightest of pessimism that all great Historians must cloak themselves in, it is not right to just be a know all, so His wiliness to acknowledge that his own writings though of the highest of standards may well be corrected in a way that they are not false but of the learning curve that was born on the cusp that is the changing of the day and the bringing of the night, how great it is to see through darkness.  Anne-Marie Ford I think as the flow of a poetic Flower, I do not need to say no more, well done and good luck to them both in their future endeavours, and again Mel thank you for being so kind as to send me the Link about Riley Boswell and the connections to the Heron Young’s, who I am at present trying to research and learn about here on roots chat, I am trying to stay with the Herons and not go of in a tangent to much but I to have been finding records of the Boss Boswells that are connected to the Herons Hearne’s Young’s, I will put just a few on my next post to show people who like me try to understand and find more of their real life as in living, what I want to achieve is a way for a researcher to match names up, I truly think all Gipsy People will be connected, there as bean I think a false attempt to separate the Gipsies, this attempt as worked in what I have listened to down through the years’ since the internet brought many people together from many locations and different kinds of lifestyles, I have listened to people from the biggest of the Gipsy names of the past, people from names that many never have known, evan in the slightest way, or evan been wrote about, people with well-known names who think that just be course they have a name that is known from the older writers, well they think this carries something, how strange is that, I have listened to the stories of people whose name as only been wrote about in a derogatory way yet they tell of great Gipsy truths in their talk, any way I am trying to find many records on this thread so that in the stories I find more names or clues will link up and show the connection that binds all Gipsy Family’s, not with the chains that were weaved by the false narrative of the ignorant, for truly many people only wrote in the style of their own day, their own life, their own teachings, and they never evan new this, they never new they were only analysing the life they had lived, often I have read into their writing and it was truley themselves and their own teachings, there are many writers who are and have been searching throughout time, they should have just looked in a mirror and saved themselfs a long journey, they were lost, but the trouble was they may well have found themselves in that tangled vine that is truly trapped in the glizening web, intising is the lure of genealogy history, but their legacy is surely only now in my mind a dirty mess, for every record that a person may find themselves in, represents only maybe just one percent of the times and the doings of that said record, many many times there will be no recorded history, you have to know how to read records, to read that which was never wrote is to learn the real truth, there will be clues, this is where a researcher must transcribe every detail of every account, once you start to learn how to understand you will start to read the unwriten, all Gipsies of the past were switched on, they all new in my mind what is what, they have been underestimated and not given full credit, this separation talk that makes its way in to our time is not right, true many thrive on such talk, they write in supple ways.

Thank you again Mel for the fine link to the Gypsy Genealogy Web Site, I do recommend everybody who as an interest in the ongoing truth to read through the many many thoughtful pages of this vast knowledgeable Web Site by two very good Researches of high calibre. I will put a few things on about the Boss Boswells then I will carry on with my Research for the Herons

michael
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Monday 15 October 18 20:35 BST (UK)
 I have been reading the great story of George Youngs and Newcombe Boss stated as being Gipsies, in the year 1818 1819 they were charged with stealing an Horse, they were sentenced to death but reprieved you will see the fate of Newcombe on the Riley Boss page on the link from the Gypsy Genealogy web site, the interesting information i found was that in 1846 on the 22 May, stated on a Friday, in the Lincolshire Chronicle

At the Petty Sessions.
" held on saturday last, two Gipsies, named John Herring and Newcombe Boswell, were convicted before Henry Rogers, Esq; as rogues and vagabonds and commited to prison to hard labour for a month."

So the two Newcombes are Boss and Boswell, pluss the Youngs and the Herrings are with them, then i read the story below of how the Gipsies are also known as Bossils, the Boss the Boswells must all be Bossils who are Gipsies, or Gipsies are Bossils who are Boss and Boswell, Either way they are all Gipsies. If anyone wants all the full accounts up of the whole story of Newcombe Boss and George Youngs from 1818 1819 i will write everything up for you incase you may find information that is hidden within the storys, it is no bother at all, you only have to ask, no problem.
I do know that many people know many things, but i do not, thats why i am trying to learn through researching, i have read what some people have said or claimed, but i am just trying to look for myself, there will be many people like me to, i want them all to learn through my learning.

Friday 18 May 1849
Lincolnshire Chronicle

Magistrates Clerks Office, 11 May, before Hy. E. Smith, Esq;
Riley Boss, Agnes Boss, and Jno. Jackson, of the tribe of Bossils, or Gipsies, were commited to Kirton to hard labour as Rogues and Vagabonds.

Below i found the record of death of William Boss from the Riley Boss page on the Gypsy Genealogy site, i did not find anything else about him yet though but while looking i found the marridge record below in the same year and County, just a few months apart, it was sad how William was said to be dead, but we can finnish on a Wedding to lighten the mood.

Friday 27 January 1843
Stanford Mercury
Lincolnshire
Died
Wm. Boss, one of the Gipsy tribe. His remains were intered at Burton.

Friday 31 March 1843
Lincolshire Chronicle
Married
At Ryhall, on Monday,
Dives Smith to Sophronia Smith, Grandchild to the late Wisdom Smith, the noted Gipsy.

 I will put more storys on next with more information about the Gipsies known as Boss, i will evan look for the Jacksons for there with them and will not be unlooked for,  then i will be back to my research in looking for the Herons, i think they are all the same Family though or very close. I  am trying to learn what i do not know about the bigger picture of the Genealogy of the History of the British Gipsies, if anyone can help in my research i would welcome your input.
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: whiteout7 on Tuesday 16 October 18 10:23 BST (UK)

The principal mourners were Mr Oscar Heron ( brother), Londonderry

There is an interesting article here about a Mrs Oscar Heron's passing January in 1966

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1259100?Search=yes&resultItemClick=true&searchText=oscar&searchText=heron&searchUri=%2Ftopic%2Ffunerals%2F%3Ftopic%3Dfunerals%26amp%3BQuery%3Doscar%2Bheron&seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

When I look up her death entry in Ireland it says her first name was Ada (she was 87 years old)

I wonder if she was the wife of the Oscar Heron (famous horse dealer) that passed in 1953 and is buried at Dundonald cemetery in Dublin?

I can not find his death recorded in civil registration, could be in an Irish newspaper.
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Tuesday 16 October 18 19:36 BST (UK)
 Thank you very much Mel, a great story for people to read, i see you have found dates to, i will take everything in and learn from such information, thank you, all of this informational research will now stay here and then other people may look at the hard work that you have done and then they to may also learn facts that may let them form a bigger picture, you know many people have wrote down the years about such things and offten in books, yet times moves on and books go out of print, we here on rootschat are doing our bit for the people like me who want to learn, sure there is nothing wrong with starting at the begining, every road must start somewhere. There is no dout in my mind we a looking at the Romany Gipsies of the old times in these story's, there may be many more Gipsies as old, we will see where the road leads, you never rearly know what may lay ahead, all you can do is set of and have ago, there will be many who went under the radar and just evolved without so many of the older ways, i am sure in what i am finding and what i have learned from listoning to others who have a close connection to old time family storys from past down oral talk, well i am sure the Herons have been about for a long time. I am cooking the dinner tonight so i will have to wait to write back in a day or so, with more story's, i am learning all the time, when this research is done the whole thread will be best read as one, and now Mel, you are the Star researcher, if you was here with me i would give you one of my chops, i,m cooking eight of them and mash potatoes, i will let the missus have two of them, merrm, well i don't want her to put to much weight on, the way i look at it i,m doing her a kind deed. I was going to write more on the Bosses next but seeing what you just found i will first show you more about the Herons in what i have found, then i will go back to the Bosses and write what i was going to put on next, then i will return to the Herons and more connecting names.

Thank you again for the great information about the times and history of these Great Gypsies i am sure their relatives who ever chance this way in the future will be most gratefull for you kind efforts and noble deeds in contributing too this ongoing research.

michael
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Thursday 18 October 18 20:34 BST (UK)
 
 The Glove inn Yard Beverley i am almost sure should be the Globe Inn. Below is another record of the past that people like me who have an interest in learning from the past will now learn from reading of the past accounts of Gipsies who though now gone will teach us the things we need to learn, this is how i see things, everyone must write as how they see things, that will be their truth, this is just my truth.

Hull Daily Mail
  Tuesday 15 April 1949
                                                   CARAVAN BURNT
                                                         AT GIPSYS
                                                           FUNERAL

THE OLD ROMANY RITE of “ going away,” in which all the dead man’s possessions are burnt, was carried out in Beverley today before the interment at Spring bank cemetery, Hull, of Polie Heron a well-known member of the English Romanies.
His valuable caravan, clothes, furniture and all the Widows possessions, except the clothes in which she was wearing, were taken to a field outside the town early today and there in the presence of nearly 100 mourners, some of whom had come from all parts of the Country, were destroyed by fire.

                                                    THE VACANT CHAIR.

In the middle of the morning, the cortege, the biggest seen in Beverley for a great many yeares, left the Market Place, watched by large numbers of the townspeople. Following the flower laden hearse was an open car filled with flowers and carrying the Widows tribute of “the vacant chair,” a wreath of flowers in the form of an armchair which later was deposited at the head of the grave.
This was the first year he had gone into winter quarters at the Glove Inn Yard Beverley. He died in a Hull nursing home on Thursday, after a painful illness.

r.i.p to all the Peoples i write of.

In this link below i think this is the Old Inn that is spoken of above
https://www.flickr.com/photos/erarchives/25408763685

In this link below schroll down to the Globe Inn and read of its vast history, then schroll down to the link at the bottom of the writing to see the old layout of the buildings from longago
https://www.paul-gibson.com/pubs-and-breweries/beverley-pubs-g-to-j.php
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: whiteout7 on Saturday 20 October 18 07:30 BST (UK)
Polie Heron, do you think he may have been "Polius Heron" that Seraphim_angel published here?

http://www.geocities.ws/seraphim_angel_2002/HeronPedigree2.html

Can't find a death registration for him at the GRO for Polius Heron for 1949 but there is one for a Pooley Heron in 1950.

Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: whiteout7 on Saturday 20 October 18 07:40 BST (UK)

Saturday 12 September 1936
Hull Daily Mail
Yorkshire

                                                  THE PASSING OF A GIPSY

                                                 Age-Old Ritual at Bridlington

The ritual which as been going on by the fraternity throughout the centuries was observed at Sewerby, near Bridlington, yesterday, when the funeral took place of Gipsy William Heron, who died at Sewerby at the age of 74. Yesterday afternoon the cortege left Sewerby for Hull, where the internment took place at Chanterlands-Avenue Cemetery.
Gipsy Heron was well known in Hull, and was properly the best-known horse dealer at the annual horse fairs which precede Hull fair. Among his own people he was looked upon has a “King”, and the mourners yesterday included some who had travelled from Scotland Ireland and the South of England to pay their last tributes.

Gipsy Heron was a native of Yorkshire, being born at Foxholes. Since the commencement of the season he had been living in his caravan on a camping field in Sewberby, and had been in in-indifferent health for the past two years. He lived in retirement for the past four or five years.

                                                      CARAVAN BURNED

Prior to the internment, Gipsy Herons caravan, in which where placed all his possessions and personal belongings, was burnt in accordance with the custom of his Race. Before the coffin was borne to Hull, only the ashes and the wheels of the caravan remained.  A special tent had been set up in which Gipsy Heron lay in state from Wednesday until Friday morning. During that time his relative also remained besides the tent. The tent was also burned yesterday afternoon.

The principal mourners were Mr Oscar Heron ( brother), Londonderry: Mr and Mrs F. Pickles. Son-in-law and Daughter.

Mr and Mrs F Pickles might have been "Frampton Pickles married to Annie Heron". Which would make Annie's parents William Heron and Jane Boswell. Her sister was Sibby Heron (born c 1888) married to Nelson Pickles (born c 1885) which would match the newspaper article


http://www.geocities.ws/seraphim_angel_2002/HeronPedigree2.html

Wonder where Frampton Pickles and Annie Heron wed? And what year? A private ceremony or a church one??
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: whiteout7 on Saturday 20 October 18 08:07 BST (UK)
Frampton Pickles appears in the 1891 census as living in Salford Lancashire on Familysearch

(father) John Pickles   38   Lancashire, England
(mother) Sarah Pickles   40   Yorkshire, England
Frampton Pickles   6   England
Subey Pickles   4   England
Nelson Pickles 0 England.

Frampton Pickles born in 1885 is listed as passing in 1956 in Holderness, Yorkshire, England.

Nelson Pickles baptism:

Baptism: 16 Jul 1891 St John the Baptist, Burnley, Lancashire, England
Nelson Pickles - [Child] of John Pickles & Sarah
    Abode: Gannow Lane
    Occupation: Earthenware Dealer
    Baptised by: W. J. Gerratt
    Register: Baptisms 1887 - 1893, Page 59, Entry 468
    Source: Original Parish Register

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 21 October 18 19:22 BST (UK)
Hi Mel
 
The web site you put on with the Heron Pedigree as the Hammons as relatives of theirs.

This is what i wrote below on the Dan Boswell Thread

 
Nottinghamshire Guardian-Thursday 10 January 1861

Shire Hall,  Nottingham.

Sat.-(Before R Birkin, S.B.Wild, W. Needam, and  W.Hannay, Esqs.)

Radford. Life in the Gipsy Camp.-A gipsy named John Gray, of sombre cast of contenance, appeared in answer to a charge of assaulting a woman named Charlotte Hammond, whom he had espoused in conformity with “the marriage laws and customs of gisydom.” The complainant, a fortune-teller by profession, stated that on Tuesday night, the defendant struck her and injured her very much about the head, she was living with him at Radford at the time of the assault. The defendant commenced beating the woman's daughter very violently,  wherest the complainant became irritated and declared she would not stand by to see him brutally ill-treat her own child in that manner. The complainant gave satisfactory proof of defendant's ill-usage, and said he had behaved to her like a demon. He denied the charge, but the bench placed to much reliance on the woman's testimony to doubt that considerable violence had been inflicted upon her, and the defendant was fined 16s, 6d. Including expenses.

Nottingham Journal Monday 7January 1861

Disturbance among the Gypsies.

John Gray was charged with threatening language to Charlotte Hammond, on Tuesday evening last, at Radford. The parties were of the gipsy tribe, and during the disturbance one with another in their camp, the defendant threatened to murder complainant. After hearing the case, the magistrate ordered the defendant to be bound over in his own recognizances
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 21 October 18 19:27 BST (UK)
 


http://www.galleriesofjustice.com/

click on this link above to learn of the Old ShireHall now the Galleries of Justice Museum





Nottinghamshire Guardian Thursday 21 October 1858

The  Zingari.—A  curious  scene transpired at the ShireHall on Saturday last. An athletic fellow, standing very little short of six feet, named John Gray, was charged before the right hon. Lord Belper, and a full Bench of Magistrates, with assaulting Levina Lee, another member of the Zingari or Gipsy tribe. The complainant stated that Gray, who had been in their camp three yeares, had been reproved for walking out at night with her sister, and in consequence of this he attacked Levina and lacerated her arm. Witness showed several marks of blows, and gesticulated violently. It appeared from the evidence of another witness who was called, that Gray had grasp of a bill hook in his hand and threatened to do murder with it, is menaces being directed towards Levina Lee. Gray prayed the Magistrates to remand him till Saturday in order to bring witnesses for his defence, which was accordingly done.-Vashti Lee, the sister who had been the cause of all this violence, was then put in the dock on a charge preferred by her own mother of stealing a valuable ring. She had the aquiline nose, chiselled features, and expressive face, which are generally the characteristics of this wandering race; dressed with great taste, wearing a feathered hat. Her mother said she was her own child, adding with some feeling, I would not hurt she. The Bench, who appeared to be greatly interested in the case, demanded the particulars, which the old woman declined to give, repeating, she my own child, I would not hurt she. The daughter then gave an account of how she became possessed of the jewel. It originally belonged to her grandmother, whom she tended in her last sickness, but no one was present at her death. She left no will, dying in the middle of the night. The ring was pledged at pawnbrokers in Lincoln, and redeemed by herself, for 8s.6d. As complainant declined to press the charge, she was set at liberty, and the mother demanded the ring. My ring, no gentlemen my ring if you please, my ring! Exclaimed the black eyed daughter; and as it was handed to her at the noble Chairman's request, she burst into tears, and shaking her finger at her mother, said you want to punish me, but  ya can't. Never mind Vashti, never mind, exclaimed the rebating voice of her dark adorer as he was conveyed to his remanded cell.

 
 
 
 

 
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 21 October 18 21:09 BST (UK)
Nottingham shire Guardian Thursday 28 October 1858

The Gipsy Again- At the ShireHall, on Saturday last, John Gray was charged on remand with assaulting Levina Lee, who did not appear in support of the charge. He had been a prisoner a week on this accusation, having requested the Magistrates to remand him for that period in order to procure witnesses for the defence. Another charge was also made against him-that of breaking the peace in an assault upon Jacob Kirk, with a bill hook, at Bulwell, on Friday week, but the complainant appeared and said he did not wish to press the charge, but merely sought to have the prisoner bound over. As he did not enter into the particulars, the bench said Gray would be dismissed on promising not to offend again.- Gipsy; I will. I'll say nothing to him no more. I don't blame dis gentleman.-Lord Belper: There is 12s. to pay-Gray said he had not got the money, but his mother, a wizened frightful- looking old jade, came forwards and produced a sovereign from the inner folds of a vile dirty handkerchief, and the prisoner was then discharged.

  So the Hammonds are relatives also, on the records above the Grays are related to the Hammons to, they are also in the pedigree that you sent me, i found this record below with both familys on.

Friday 9 May 1845
 Stamford Mercury
Lincolnshire

— lsaac Hearn and Edw. Hearn, two Gipsies, were convicted of an assault upon Pyramus Gray, another Gipsy, and fined 10s. each and costs, amounting to 14s. fined in default of payment, they were committed to prison for 14 days. On the following day they paid the fine and costs, and were discharged.

Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: whiteout7 on Tuesday 23 October 18 07:36 BST (UK)
Charlotte Hammond being the mother of Vashti Lee and Levina Lee both born about 1833-35, in Norfolk (the girls father was Zachariah Lee)

Vashti Lee was espoused to a John Gray.

Charlotte Hammond was the ex-wife of Riley Boss (Alias James Heron?)

http://www.gypsygenealogy.com/showarticle.php?article_id=175

Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Wednesday 24 October 18 22:50 BST (UK)
Thanks again Mel

More for me to learn from, The Gypsy Genealogy web site as so much great information in. Thank you for everything, When i first put the article record on about Charlotte Hammond i noticed how it was stated Radford Nottingham, i am from Nottingham, i have been tracing the Old Camping Grounds, so a while back i looked for one at Radford this is some of what i found, i will not divert to much, i think though that such things as this will be of help to others who read these words.

 I have read that Radford derived its name of the "red ford" from the Mottled Bed Sandstone in the high cliffs, where the Alfreton Road crossed the Leen by a ford.   
https://maps.nls.uk/view/101603268
 
 There was an Old way from Lenton to Radford the Marsh Road or Radford Marsh.  Radford used to be in the priory of Lenton so sometimes Radford is talked about as Lenton in the Old writings, in the early 1900s i think it was then that the name changed to Faraday Road where the Worled famouse Raleigh bikes were made, now in this time next to this Road is a new housing estate, the road named as Radmarsh Road, i think from what i have read from many Old refferances there was once an Old Camping Ground at Radford, in the Fields around the area known as Radford Marsh. Another bit of information for others is that there was an Old Lane known as Outgang Lane. Outgang Lane is wrote about in 1488  known as the Outgoinges of Radford and Lenton leading North toward the Linges, the Lings was the Old name of the Forest, meaning where the heather grew, so look out in the census or other records for names like Radford Marsh or Outgang Lane. below i read this record, i do not know if it is corect, it as Gipsy People stated as staying around the area that i now write of.
 
1881 
Name David ALLEN
Relation Head Marital Status M Gender Male Age 42
Birthplace pworth, Lincoln, England
Occupation Hawker In Earthenware
Name Harriett ALLEN
Relation Wife Marital Status M Gender Female Age 33
Birthplace Sheffield, York, England
Occupation Hawkers Wife
Name George ALLEN
Relation Son Gender Male Age 9
Birthplace Dronfield, Derby, England
Occupation Assistant Hawker
Name James ALLEN
Relation Son Gender Male Age 5
Birthplace Glossop, Derby, England
Name James KNIGHT
Relation Relative Marital Status U Gender Male Age 19
Birthplace Sheffield, York, England
Occupation Hawker
Dwelling Radford Marsh Caravan Census Place Lenton, Nottingham, England

Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Saturday 16 February 19 15:21 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone

  I am researching the best I can, on here it is dedicated to the Herons, Hearns, Young's and all their name spellings, I want to learn and share, mostly though to show the respect for the dead Gipsies, this is the most important thing, I will try through my research to make them feel that their truth is important, their life was real, their truth was real, I am also doing another research about WW1, well I have been looking for story's about the Herons on here when I came across these records, does any one know if this Rueben Heron below from the Manchester papers is from the Herons me and Mel write about.



Tuesday 02 July 1918
  Manchester Evening News
  Lancashire

PRISONERS OF WAR
  Pte. Watson, Machine Gun Corps,  Lower Broughton. Pte. Reuben Heron, Manchester Regiment,  Pte. James Potts. Machine Gun Corps, Altringham.
   
Wednesday 05 May 1948
  Manchester Evening News
  Lancashire 

The Family of the late Mr. REUBEN HERON, sincerely Thank relatives, friends and neighbour's.     
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Saturday 16 February 19 15:28 GMT (UK)
I write these words on the record below to try and help people who know evan less than me, and I really only know I little and must often get things wrong but a person should at least try. 

 My Mother would talk about finding my way back from a journey by turning my cloths inside out, she would look at me and laugh as she talked, she would say “ just look at you, you look like you’ve been dragged through an hedge backyard's" the bad spirits she said would not be able to see me, this is why below the turf was on Major Boswells chest, it was to trick the bad spirits, they would think He was already buried and the grass had grown over His grave, I learned all these things, my Mother also taught me ways how to reverse evil things, send them back to the Sender, you have to do something, like a ritual, and from the very beginning the Mokody, people don't really understand that word, you must not read it, it is to be felt, you really feel it, its real, I suppose a man can turn his back on such things, but that would be up to yourself, you must never forget that good Spirits you may talk to, my Mother would say this with the most conviction, Good Luck to Everyone, these below and above are just extracts to help you understand how hard it is to find the right names on records and also look for the Strangest of things, if its the truth you seek.


Staffordshire Advertiser Saturday 21 May 1870

DEATH OF A PATRIACHAL GIPSY-Major Boswell who for the last seven years has made a tent on the Stone Road, Longton, his principle place of abode, died on Sunday at the advanced age of 108 years. The body was “laid out” in caricature Gipsy style. He lies “instate” on a bed on the ground, covered with a white sheet, and a tuft of grass on the chest. The part of the tent where the body lies is lined with white, decorated with flowers, a picture of the Saviour, and wax candles on either side.
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Saturday 16 February 19 15:44 GMT (UK)

In this story below about William Young's, well the story does not always go in a way that a persons mind as been possessed down through the yeares by the so-called writers who have thought of themselves as the passers of Gipsy truth, you just would not believe all the things I have read through hundreds of yeares of pure real undiluted lies and fabricated nonsense of the most high order from many so-called people of little intellect for that which they have no comprention in the least of leasts of evan the nano mathematics of to-days scientific thought process, void of evan a soul they are, there is also some good educated thoughts, well worth reading, anyway the Herons kept it strong, as you have read through this research of Mels and mine, they may well like everyone else be of mixed ancestry and evan joined older Gipsies from say the 1400s, but the thing is they kept it strong and this is what to me is a Romany Gipsy, there is to much talk from most people about them claiming to be of the true Romany, why is this, well I think its mostly a style thing, Lee would write yeares back about the “Black Face's" well lots of Gipsies would class them as low class or not as good as the more moved on Gipsies who had got more of a whiter face and lost some of the meanings of the older Romany Gipsies, its true years back to be a modern Gipsy would meen you was the real deal, i have listoned to a few Gipsy people state this and i believe there words, now some people just go on saying look at me I am a Romany, but truthfully and with respect in manners I do not think they are, Respect to the Herons with all my thoughts I think they are what the Romany Gipsy is in all its essence , of course there are more familys to, they may well have the d.n.a of France or Spain, these things are all good, they may derive from Indian lands as in the men folk as people have talked of as of that meaning you're the greatest, I think though that they carried the language and customs of the very old Gipsies and stuck with it right up until the times I speak of, I know no truths of this day to say more for them, never forget, people who have not wrote right in the past still passed on their words that shape peoples thoughts of today, i remember that Lee once wrote the words of the old Gipsies who he listened to when he was small, these are Gipsy people talking about Gipsy people not strangers trying to talk of their talk, well Lee said long ago lots of the old family's were travelling about together and meeting up and they had a get to gether at a camp, they were all around a burning fire just being social, I suppose this is what it was like all over but all the old family's were talking in the Romany language of the day, there was lots of what you would be right to call big names, respectfull names, they would be all related to, like one big Gipsy family, then all of a sudden the Herons took to talking to themselves for some reason or other, well the camp just went quiet, it was deep deep deep old Romany talk, it had a style and flo that unless you was born straight into them you no matter your name and knowledge well they left everyone just feeling like wow, Lee said he listened to people saying how everyone just got up and left the fire side, left the Herons to talk among themselves in the oldest of fashion, Lee had great respect for such things and I learned from his teachings, I do not know how many yeares or generations the story comes from, I hope that others not tainted by lies will learn also from evan me.


Nottinghamshire Guardians Thursday 25 November 1852

SHOCKING DEATH OF A GIPSEY. - On the 18th inst. Mr Coroner Swan held an inquest on the body of a man unknown at the Seven Stars Arnold. William Young's, who stated he was 70 years of age and had been a Gypsey all his life, said he had seen the man many times. He went by the name of Robin Woods, and was also a Gypsey, Sometimes he travelled about the Country by himself and sometimes he joined a company of Gipsies and travelled with them for a time, then he left them to join another company. He often took the name of the party with which he joined and consequently was called by different names. He was last with witness on Monday night at his camp in Lime lane, Arnold. On Tuesday witness moved his camp to Basford Lane.
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Saturday 16 February 19 15:49 GMT (UK)
I put this record on below to show people what you will be up against when you try to research through the Census reports or other records, you must know that every single family line will be wrong, never be like some who claim these are mine and those are yours, remember the Gipsies are Gipsies, it is strange to how many of the myths have some truth to them, I have read many records of Gipsy family's taking in people and bringing them up as their own, these records from long ago to, these people inturn would have had children who again had children, what of d.n.a then, what of the so-called records, lots of times I have read of records of trouble or no trouble where Gipsy people have had others children like it was not your wife, or husband, what of these so-called records then, remember that if you see beautifully trees growing in the countryside you are looking at nature and you feel nature, you are a good person, if you go round just seeing and talking of this flower is the greatest in the forest well your eyes are deceived to the beauty before you, it is right to talk of the truth and say what is the truth, but to just be conned into the peddle, is to talk the talk of truth unreal, remember none is higher or none is lower, but the truth must still be spoken.


Daly Gazette for Middlesbrough Thursday 2 December 1915

TRACED BY FINGER PRINTS-Charges preferred at Stockton to-day against James Allen 22, John Boswell 22, and also James Smith 21. The defendants were further charged under the Aliens Restriction Act. On enquiries being made to Scotland Yard it was found that Allen's proper name was Lowther, Smiths real name was Wilshaw, and Boswell was Wilkinson. Defendants were natives of Sheffield and were strangers to the Town; they had very bad Police records.
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Saturday 16 February 19 15:53 GMT (UK)
I put this record on below to show respect, to show all who will try to learn about their relatives that they were not a comic strip fantasy caricature going around on a donkey singing some old song, sure there would of been a few soft ones who just kept out of the way, that's the law of mathematics, the law of averages, but if the Gipsies of the past were in any way soft as in general they would have been swept away by the tide that sweeps through all the lanes of Europe, it's a strong tide, remember that king who it is wrote about as him saying how he could hold back the sea for he was the mighty king Canute, I think that was his name, well the Gipsies could read the flow and ebb, roll with it, sometimes you had to battle hard, and maybe not get far, but you was still alive, other times you could sail along with the wind from the sound of the bird.



Monday 04 March 1878
  Daily Gazette for Middlesbrough
  Yorkshire


GIPSIES AND THE POLICE
     

THE POLICE.
On Saturday, five rough-looking gipsies, named Edward Young, William Gray, Harris Gray, Goliath Young, and Reuben Heron, were charged at the Durham (County) Petty Sessions with assaulting P.C. Lewis and P.C. Tears. The gipsies had pitched in their tents in a field near Durham. On Saturday forenoon P.C's Lewis and Tears found the men of the tribe engaged on the highway in a large gambling school, pitch and toss and cards being in full swing. The officers demanded their names, but whilst doing so P.C Tears was felled to the ground by Harris Gray, who struck him behind the head with an iron bar, and at the same time Edward Young stabbed him on the arm with a large clasp knife, which penetrated through  his clothes, but just grazed the skin. The other men then commenced to kick the prostrate constable, and 
Lewis had considerable difficulty in forcing his way to him. Eventually both officers got away, after P.C. Lewis had also been knocked down, and on returning to the camp with reinforcements   
 they apprehended the prisoners. The Bench sent Wm. Gray, Goliath Young, and Reuben Heron to gaol for six weeks' hard labour, whilst the other two prisoners were ordered to undergo three months' hard labour, the whole of them to be incarcerated for an additional fourteen days in default of paying costs.
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Saturday 16 February 19 15:56 GMT (UK)
 



  I put this record on to learn about the Herons and learn real truths, I hope everyone who reads these records will also learn and if anyone may find more records in these researchers I would be gratefull if you would contribute anything that you may know or find. 

Tuesday 29 March 1955
 Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer
  Yorkshire
 
Gipsy Rite of Fire Proceeds Funeral

From our Blackpool correspondent In keeping with the Romany custom, all his personal belongings had been burned before the Funera! yesterday of Mr. Reuben Heron, aged 41, a man of Gipsy stock and boardinghouse keeper, of Albert Road. Blackpool.The Funeral at careton near Blackpool was proceeded by a service at St. Stephen's Church, North Shore, there was a procession of more than 30 cars carrying the 200 mourners. Gipsies from all parts of the country had travelled to Blackpool to attend. The Funeral cortege stretched for a quarter of a mile Mr Heron was the son of  Mr and Ms. Oscar Heron, of Hemingway. Blackpool, his Mother being a wellknown Palmist on Blackpool's Central Beach.


Monday 08 October 1956
  Lancashire Evening Post
  Lancashire 

Mr. Reuben Heron, of 76. Albert road. Blackpool, son of Oscar Heron, retired amusement caterer, 93 Hemingway. Blackpool, left £3.403 gross. £129 net.
   
 
Wednesday 22 July 1931
  Skegness Standard
  Lincolnshire
 
Reuben Heron, young Skegness amusement attendant, admitted riding a bicycle without a light.   
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Saturday 16 February 19 16:26 GMT (UK)
So on a final note

 When you get into your research in a more in-depth way, well you may want to know the reasons of why, not just that plain fact of this or that, why, well you will just have to try, the old Gipsies it is said came from far away, in these far away lands it is said they had customs that may be of a religious type or cultural way of going on, the Humans as of me and you developed our inner being, they say this is the soul, we then often asked ourself questions like who are we, who made us, this as been going on a long time, try to reseach the history of mankind, it's a good read, well there are these inner-soul customs that we have learned and taken on, they have become a part of every culture in the whorled, all having all kinds of difference's but still descending back to the time we started to use our brain, they say we are still only using a minute part of it to, that's true, then you have the things that are not customs or suspicions, you have inner things that everyone had from the long times of evolution, natural protection ways, things that you are born with, you get that sense sometimes things are not quite right, you can almost smell it, I was reading about the things below to help me understand the truth of the records i find and story's i was told, did you know it is wrote that it may take the dead sometimes three days maybe to omit the death smell, maybe this is why in some cultures they lay the body in state for a few days, you have to maybe wait for the right moment to release the spirit, there are many such death rituals in cultures, I think the answer does not belong to just one answer, the answer is not right just saying this is what the old time people did for supperstions and rituals, then the answer is not just science teaching saying we are hot wired from birth to follow the flight or fight scenario, I think the answer is all of it, to emit one is to putrefy the truth, if it's the truth you seek you must first seek it, try and research these things below to help you understand more.
 
Research from the McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, published in the journal Evolutionary Biology.
Evolutionary biologist David Rollo of Canada found in his research   
that he thought for over 400 million years nearly all animals or insects emit the same stench when they die, to recognise and avoid the dead could reduce the chances of catching a diseases, or be eaten by other things that were higher up the food chain, oleic or linoleic acids are released through death, wild animals would also smell death so this is why people would be buried or burnt, or possessions burned.

One of the most bizare facts i have been learning is the oleic acids that insects and animals release at death which inturn triggers a responce in the things alive, well the acids are found in soap to, do you see the contradiction, but is it a contradiction, you have to think about that one, in nature and science all the answers are there, for every action there is a reaction, and did you know the old time fishermen from over the sea would tow a dead shark behind thier boat to stop sharks attacking their nets full of court fish, to the sharks  the stench of a dead shark spelled danger so off they would go, if you do real research as in more in-depth than this you will correct my writings and find more truths.

Read also about the research of sociologist and ecologist E. O. Wilson, there is some great reading.
If you go on the internet just type in about all the buring customs of the lands of India, then Romania and those Country's will show many of their customs along the roads that the Gipsies travelled, that evan I have talk about over these few posts, I think lots of things were picked up and  Incorporated by the Gipsies on the long road to you, people have wrote of whitcraft, vampires, the devil himself, all of these things, the truth is Gipsies are just Gipsies, when you know you will know, but how will you know when you don't first know, and if you don't first know how will you ever learn to know.

 I may not write again on this research if no one answers me, I have tried my best for the Herons, tried my best for all there relations, I have many many records of your family through the generations, but I think this is a good place for you to start your research, go to the Newspaper Archive web site I have often wrote about it, log on and join up, I have left out many clues in the extracts I have wrote, you may find untold story's of your people, the Newspaper Archive web site is not expensive join up and learn yourself of the Romany Gipsy Family, The Herons.
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 17 February 19 14:32 GMT (UK)
If anyone does go on the Newspaper Archive Web Site, remember there are many things that may take you months or yeares to find out, you may not be on long, so just Liston to me for this advice, remember sometimes in the papers they get printed more than one time in a single day, and a very big piece of advice is you must look through all of the recorded stories, from several papers, the story changers and evan the names change, information gets left out and updated, if i was you i would sign up for a full year, you get unlimited access to everything, you must check all the accounts, so much is left out of some and if you just say "har"  look i just found this, and off you go, well you will miss out big time, look at these below, the more you look the more you find, what you find may be wrong but the more you do find the more you may make a considered judgment.



Monday 17 September 1894
  Hull Daily Mail
  Yorkshire

 
 GIPSY FUNERAL AT WITHERNSEA.
(FROM A SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT.)

 A Gipsy funeral took place at Withernsea on Saturday, and was attended by a large number of residents and visitors, to whom the deceased was well known. The coffin was of pitch pine, with brass  fittings, and was carried by the deceased's relatives from the encampment to the church, where the Church of England  service was read by the Rev C. Day, J.P., vicar, and much sympathy was shown to the widow (Mrs Young), who has visited Withernsea regularly for many years. In accordance with custom, the caravan and everything belonging to the to the deceased was burnt after the funeral, the unusual sight being, of course, the subject of considerable attention.
   

Monday 17 September 1894
  Hull Daily Mail
  Yorkshire



  The death of Gipsy James Young, 60 years of age, has been a great attraction this week. The Gipsies order is that all deceased's belongings should be destroyed and burnt, their belief being that should any of the deceased's property not be destroyed, his spirit would return and haunt them. Consequently deceased tent and belongings were engulfed by a huge fire. The sight was truly interesting, still pathetic, seeing that the widow would have nothing left but the clothes she stood in. The funeral was attended by a large number of gipsies, that had come from all parts of the Country. 



GIPSY'S FUNERAL AT WITHERNSEA
 
  Tuesday 18 September 1894
  Lincolnshire Echo
  Lincolnshire 


 A GIPSY FUNERAL.  A singular scene was witnessed at Withernsea on Saturday. On the previous Tuesday a party of gipsies encamped on a piece of ground near the promenade, and included amongst their number was John Young, better known as Fiddler jack,  who was exceedingly ill, and who died on Thursday. There was much lamentation in the  camp, and on Saturday the strange ceremony of burning his effects took place in connection with his funeral. The deceased was interred in the parish graveyard, and owing to the rumour afloat as to the after proceedings many persons gathered to witness the event, and there was much excitement. It is stated that some of the personal afects of the dead man were burnt on the night before the funeral, but the principal destruction of the property took place on Saturday afternoon near the camp, a short time after the return from the burial. The waggon that had belonged to Young, and which was said to have cost £40, was set on fire, and the clothes, bedding, and other effects of the deceased, including a set of china and a fiddle, were thrown onto the flames and consumed.
It was rumoured that the horse that had been owned by the deceased would be shot and cremated, but this was not done. This strange  custom, which is of great antiquity, is said to have  originated in order to prevent quarrelling amongst the relatives, and also that the widow might not be wooed for the property she night possess. It is also stated that the widow will for a period of three months have to depend entirely upon herself for sustenance, and in no way participate in any of the earnings of her relatives. The woman is said to be well known to the inhabitants of Withersea.
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 17 February 19 16:55 GMT (UK)
 

Just something to look out for, in the record of Eva Heron up in court at Nottingham, look how she as the same solicitor as Emily Bacon on the record below hers, i have found many records by just researching Mr. R. A. Young, he has been associated with many court proceeding involving several Gipsy names, he has evan prosecuted them to, this is another way of researching, if you just find the name say of a Street or a Yard, go hard on researching just that name, information does turn up.

 
 Tuesday 13 March 1883
  Bolton Evening News
  Lancashire 

A BLACKPOOL GIPSY AT BRADFORD
 
 At Bradford on Monday, before Colonel Pollard and other magistrates, Delia Young, a gipsy, of whom it was stated that her family had been gipsies for 'generations, coming originally from Bohemia, was charged with fortune-telling. For some weeks prisoner, with a number of other gipsies, had been staying at a village named Wyke, and hundreds of persons, had visited her. Her fees ranged from 1s. to 5s., the latter sum being charged when a planet was ruled. She told the wife of a police-sergeant that it would not be safe to elope with a man to America unless he married her first, and to a servant she gave a written warranty, and told her that she was suffering from a discontented mind. It was given in evidence that her earnings must average several guineas a day for many weeks. For the defence it was noted that prisoner and her family had told fortunes at Blackpool during the season for twenty years. She was fined £5 and costs.

Ps. In the Newspaper the st James Gazette  Monday 12 March 1883 County London,  it was stated that the alternative to paying the fine was two months in prison, the fine was payed.
 

Monday 05 February 1923
 Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire

 CROSSED GIPSY'S PALM
         WITH PAPER.
 NOTTINGHAM HOUSEWIFE
      “UNDER A SPELL.”

 POLICE COURT SEQUEL.

The sequel to a vanished £1 note, was heard at the Nottingham Guildhall to-day. when Eva Heron. 21, described as a caravan-dweller, was charged with stealing from a woman by means of a trick. The defendant, came to see her on January 26th, telling her that her sister said there was a big event in her life that she ought know of. Witness replied that she did not wish to know, but accused  persisted in telling her. and asked her put a piece silver into her (witness) own hand. When witness replied that she had no 'silver but only notes, defendant offered to change some. Going into the front room the young woman followed her. and told her to lay a 10s. note on her hand. Again witness complied. Proceeding to talk about witnesses husband, who was in hospital, defendant suggested that the 10s. should be replaced by a £1 note, telling witness to look into her eyes when she spoke of her husband.  When accused left the house the £1 note went with her. It was her intention to give her 6d. as she was so persistent, but she never meant to part with the £1 as it was housekeeping money. Answering Mr. R. A. Young, who defended, witness denied that defendant said "if you give me £1 I will tell you everything.”
'' TRUTH IS TRUTH.''
P.s. dunkerley, who traced accused to a gipsy encampment near the Shoulder of Mutton Inn, Basford. said that when questioned the woman replied, I will tell the truth. I did have the £1 note, but will pay it back. “I took to buy clothes for my unborn  baby. Do the best you can for me.” At Hyson Green police station, in answer to the charge, she said. “Truth is truth . I did take the money and I am sorry and I will pay it back if you will let me. But the Lady was willing.”
Mr. Young said there was nothing previously against defendant, and argued that complainant  parted with her money willingly. If accused paid the money back, he suggested the Bench should put her on probation, with the additional understanding that she did not indulge in fortune-telling. The. Chairman (Ald. J. E. Pendleton, who was accompanied by Mrs, Dowson) considered the charge proved and that defendant exercised a spell over the woman. Who was evidently highly strung. As however, there was nothing against her previously, defendant would be placed on probation for three years, in addition to refunding the £1. and paying 10s. costs  Accused told the magistrates she would never tell fortunes again.

Small extracts below to show the same Solicitor as above, this Solicitors old records may hold many hidden records, he as represented several Gipsy family's over the yeares, there must be in Nottingham an archive of the family history of Youngs Solicitors.

Monday 14 October 1901
  Sheffield Daily Telegraph
  South Yorkshire 

FORTUNE-TELLING NEAR NOTTINGHAM
  WOMAN'S EXTRAORDANARY GULLIBILITY.  A remarkable case of fortune-telling stated at the Nottingham Shire Hall when an old gipsy-woman, named Emily Bacon, was charged 

Saturday 24 April 1909
  Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire 

FORTUNE TELLING “WORKING THE PLANETS”
  A charge of pretending and professing to tell fortunes, was preferred at the Nottingham Police-court to-day against a woman aged 60, named Emily Bacon, hawker, of no fixed abode. Mr. R. A. Young, defended. 
 
 Saturday 01 December 1894
  Leicester Chronicle
  Leicestershire 
FORTUNE-TELLING AT WOODTHORPE
 WOODTHORPE. AMUSING EVIDENCE. IN LEAGUE WITH THE DEVIL A 19th CENTURY SORCERESS.   Emily Bacon, hawker, of no fixed residence. RULING THE PLANETS.
   
 
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: daisydew7 on Wednesday 15 May 19 22:35 BST (UK)
Hi Mel

Thank you for the Link to the Gypsy Genealogy Web Site, Eric Trudgill and Anne-Marie Ford are setting the bar with their outstanding contributions in their honest attempt to be as pragmatic as is humanely possible in that desire to learn and share, which is to them I am sure a great passion, they both find themselves in uncharted waters that as yet to be sailed, they are both very lucky indeed to live in this time that will bring great discovery’s  that in turn will be of the greatest benefit to many, I do enjoy reading through their writings, Eric Trudgill writes in a very numerate solid foundational tone, hinged with the slightest of pessimism that all great Historians must cloak themselves in, it is not right to just be a know all, so His wiliness to acknowledge that his own writings though of the highest of standards may well be corrected in a way that they are not false but of the learning curve that was born on the cusp that is the changing of the day and the bringing of the night, how great it is to see through darkness.  Anne-Marie Ford I think as the flow of a poetic Flower, I do not need to say no more, well done and good luck to them both in their future endeavours, and again Mel thank you for being so kind as to send me the Link about Riley Boswell and the connections to the Heron Young’s, who I am at present trying to research and learn about here on roots chat, I am trying to stay with the Herons and not go of in a tangent to much but I to have been finding records of the Boss Boswells that are connected to the Herons Hearne’s Young’s, I will put just a few on my next post to show people who like me try to understand and find more of their real life as in living, what I want to achieve is a way for a researcher to match names up, I truly think all Gipsy People will be connected, there as bean I think a false attempt to separate the Gipsies, this attempt as worked in what I have listened to down through the years’ since the internet brought many people together from many locations and different kinds of lifestyles, I have listened to people from the biggest of the Gipsy names of the past, people from names that many never have known, evan in the slightest way, or evan been wrote about, people with well-known names who think that just be course they have a name that is known from the older writers, well they think this carries something, how strange is that, I have listened to the stories of people whose name as only been wrote about in a derogatory way yet they tell of great Gipsy truths in their talk, any way I am trying to find many records on this thread so that in the stories I find more names or clues will link up and show the connection that binds all Gipsy Family’s, not with the chains that were weaved by the false narrative of the ignorant, for truly many people only wrote in the style of their own day, their own life, their own teachings, and they never evan new this, they never new they were only analysing the life they had lived, often I have read into their writing and it was truley themselves and their own teachings, there are many writers who are and have been searching throughout time, they should have just looked in a mirror and saved themselfs a long journey, they were lost, but the trouble was they may well have found themselves in that tangled vine that is truly trapped in the glizening web, intising is the lure of genealogy history, but their legacy is surely only now in my mind a dirty mess, for every record that a person may find themselves in, represents only maybe just one percent of the times and the doings of that said record, many many times there will be no recorded history, you have to know how to read records, to read that which was never wrote is to learn the real truth, there will be clues, this is where a researcher must transcribe every detail of every account, once you start to learn how to understand you will start to read the unwriten, all Gipsies of the past were switched on, they all new in my mind what is what, they have been underestimated and not given full credit, this separation talk that makes its way in to our time is not right, true many thrive on such talk, they write in supple ways.

Thank you again Mel for the fine link to the Gypsy Genealogy Web Site, I do recommend everybody who as an interest in the ongoing truth to read through the many many thoughtful pages of this vast knowledgeable Web Site by two very good Researches of high calibre. I will put a few things on about the Boss Boswells then I will carry on with my Research for the Herons

michael
Riley Boss and his wife Lucy are my 3rd great grandparents but I am also related to the Hearn, Heron/ Young Family.....this is interesting. Eric Trudgill has been very helpful too as well as Anne. I find your posts here informative. Most my research has been found on my family after arriving in the USA. My great great grandfather Frampton Young came to America from England in 1855. My gg grandfather Samson Boss ( Son Of Riley and Lucy Boss) came to America as well as his Mother in the 1860’s . Thank you for posting this information.
Here is a marriage certificate of My gg grandfather Frampton’s youngest son Nathan and Pinkney, married in the USA.
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Tuesday 21 May 19 20:29 BST (UK)
Helo Daisy, wow that's a great name, you are related to the Gipsies alright, you should write up a story of your thoughts and put in on here for your Relations of tomorrow, you should do it, no need to think just write, let your soul talk, one day you will be gone and only strangers will talk for you, tell of your life, tell of all who you ever listened to, just say anything, it will be your words and true words, in hundreds of yeares time people will talk of Daisy, i have tryed my best to be right by your People

 
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 26 May 19 20:49 BST (UK)
Hi Daisy

 Thank you for the p.m, I will carry on trying to learn and share what i know and find about your Familys, there are people who know much more than me in their Family history, maybe one day someone will p.m. you or write on here, i will look for more information of the genealogyical times of your Familys Family
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Friday 31 May 19 22:28 BST (UK)
Hi Daisy   

William died in 1843 in the report I put on a few pagers back, I also found this report from 1845, this William could be a relative, it may be a false clue but do not be put of by the word tramp, I have been writing about fake writings long before the American President, nearly every one of the writers of Gipsies over hundreds of years either hated them or used them to write a kind of fiction, i put a few records on to show you some real stories to help you to understand
 
Friday 07 February 1845
  Stamford Mercury
  Lincolnshire 
 
On Tuesday last, before Major Warrand, Inspector Caldwell charged Wm. Boss (a tramp) with passing base coin : he was discharged for want of evidence

Friday 05 June 1868
  Derbyshire Advertiser and Journal
Derbyshire

Uriah Sheriff and Dinah Boswell, both tramping mendicants, were brought up in custody having been found sleeping in an outhouse at Duffield, at three o’clock in the morning, and not having any visible means of subsistence, and not giving a good account of themselves.— They were each committed to gaol for 14 days
 
Mendicant
Depending on alms for a living; practicing begging.
  Of or relating to religious orders whose members are forbidden to own property individually or in common and must work or beg for their living
mendīcāre, to beg, from mendīcus, needy, beggar, from mendum,  Middle English: from Latin mendicant- ‘begging’, from the verb mendicare, from mendicus ‘beggar’, from mendum ‘fault’.

 Saturday 03 February 1866
 Rugby Advertiser
  Warwickshire 

Henry Boswell. Eli Boswell, and Thomas Boswell, three brothers, tramping tinkers, were charged with sleeping in an outhouse at Barby. P. C. Adkins said about twelve o'clock Sunday night last, I found the prisoners  sleeping in some outhouses at Barby. Thomas Boswell bit his hand, and resisted me. It appeared Henry had very recently left prison, where he had been for two years. There were several convictions against him. Eli had been once before convicted
 
Tuesday 04 March 1879
  Daily Gazette for Middlesbrough
  Yorkshire 

There has just died at the Doncaster Workhonse a pauper, named Elijah Lee, who is believed to have been 104 years of age. Deceased, who had been a gipsy hawker
   
Wednesday 14 June 1899
 Derby Daily Telegraph
  Derbyshire 

James Lovell, a little lad, was charged with wandering abroad and lodging in the open air without having any visible means of subsistence 
   
Wednesday 16 August 1899
  Derby Mercury
  Derbyshire 

James Lovell (16), who has neither parents nor home, was charged with wandering abroad on the Burton Road shortly after mid-night
   
 
 Wednesday 21 June 1899
  Derby Mercury
  Derbyshire 

James Lovell was charged with wandering abroad in St. Peter's Street late last night   
     
Wednesday 12 July 1899
  Derby Mercury
  Derbyshire 

 James Lovell, a lad, was charged with vagrancy in Full Street early on Sunday morning, Police-constable shickell found the lad, who is a gipsy without any parents. He was before the Court on the 14th. Lovell now said he had been working sorting scrap iron, but had not been fit on Saturday, and had not gone to work. He said he would go to the workhouse for a while and was discharged on that understanding
 

 Wednesday 21 March 1928
Yorkshire Post and Leeds Intelligencer
 Yorkshire

Gipsies Life Yeadon Moor.
Six Children who cannot read or count.
Jumping like a Fox.

A family of six Gipsy children ignorant of the alphabet, and unable to evan count, was cited in a charge of neglect, parents were Richard and ann Smith living in a tent on Yeadon Moor, it was stated that it was not a fit place to live in and described in a terrible manner, it was stated in the defence of the Mother that she did as much as she could and would go out Hawking lace and cloth-pegs, it was not suggested that the children were under-nourished, but their personal condition was filthy. Pending the hearing of this case, the children were taken to the Otley Work-House, Dr. Hislop said the condition of the hut was not fit for animals and he saw a child jumping around like a fox. In defence it was said that their manner of life could not be judged according to the ordinary standards of society, Yeadon Moor had been the resort of Gipsies from time immemorial, and according to the male defendant his father was born there. The Chairman said it was obvious that the parents could not maintain the whole family. Out of consideration to the Mother, the Bench proposed to let her still have the custody of the three younger children, and the Officer of the N.S.P.C.C. would keep an eye on their treatment. The parents would be bound over, and the four elder children would be transferred to the care of Dr. Barnardo’s Holmes.


  Friday 28 September 1894
  Derbyshire Advertiser and Journal
 Derbyshire
 
The Matlock police surprised Mr. Harry Booth and Mrs, Elizabeth Booth, by paying a visit to their temporary home at Tansley Moor, on Monday night last. The Booths, who are of the gipsy class, were sleeping on the wild moor, with the children. The police took the father and mother into costody and it is said that a charge will be preferred against them under the Prevention of Cruelty to Children Act. Some people in the vicinity kindly took the children into their homes. and gave them beds, other than cinders, for the remainder of the night
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 29 December 19 20:17 GMT (UK)
 
I hope everyone has had a merry Christmas and a good year to you all   


In my research for the Familys named Heron i came across Amos Heron, i found him below stopping on some land owned by a very interesting man named William West, the Boswells were stopping on the land of Wests to, this more than likley is one of the old stopping placers that as long since gone, they say in the information i found below that the Wests came up from Essex from the 1800s, then i found the Boswells stopping on that old stopping ground at Hale Moss, they are all around Lancashire, does anyone know if the Wests are related to the Herons and Boswells, so in these storys below i found Amos Heron and the Boswells, it was in my research for the times of world war one, then through this i found out about the Wests from Essex who own the land the Herons and Boswells stopped on, i wonder who the Wests are, then over at Hide Moss the BossBoswells are there to
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 29 December 19 20:19 GMT (UK)
  on the record for Amos it says Black Castle Inn Oswaldtwistle, it should say at the Back of the Castle Inn in Oswaldtwistle Accrington Lancashire, this just goes to show you how records from the past are wrote wrong at times by people who just make honest mistakes, through reading thousands of records like i do you get to see the bigger picture and then you may see through the mistaks, i suppose i make my own fair share of mistakes to,  through finding out about Amos Heron i then went on to find out about the land called Oswaldtwistle when i put Amos and the Boswells in the storys on the world war one posts i will talk more of these things, again if anyone can give me any information about Amos i would welcome you to write it down here same for the Boswells and the Wests and anyone in these storys, if you go back to page one and on the seconed post you may read about Amos Heron, there all the same peoples i would say the Boss Boswells Herons plus more names

if you click on the link below you will find duncan-square-oswaldtwistle it is on the Union road, the union road is were the Castle Inn was, just zoom in and out to find your bearings

https://addressesandpostcodes.co.uk/address/2WMc6Bk7/the-green-duncan-square-oswaldtwistle-accrington-bb5-0ew.html


                                      Absentees under the Military service act

Tuesday 30 October 1917
 Police Gazette
  London
 
Amos Heron age 24 trade a travling Gipsy 
last known address Black Castle Inn Oswaldtwistle
desertion 31 March 16 Accrington


Tuesday 08 January 1918
 Police Gazette
  London

 Rabbi Boswell  age 35 trade a hawker
last known address Duncan square Oswaldtwistle
desertion 7 July Accrington

Emporer Boss age 27 trade a hawker
last known address Duncan square Oswaldtwistle
desertion 27 June Accrington

Eddie Boswell age 22 trade a hawker
last know address Bck Castle Inn Oswaldtwistle
desertion 18 December Accrington

Hurbert Bass age 25 trade a hawker
last known address Duncan square green Oswaldtwistle
desertion 26 June  Accrington 
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 29 December 19 20:19 GMT (UK)


these storys below is for you all to see the bigger picture read through them and know of the times and peoples through the early mid 1900s, learn of Lancashire and the places the Gipsies stoped on, pass the information on to people related to the ones i find so they will know of the liifes of their ancesters, also does anyone know the history of the Wests 

Wednesday 19 March 1913
 Nottingham Evening Post
  Nottinghamshire

CARAVAN FUNERAL.

HEARSE DRAWN BY SIX HORSES. After spending sixty-nine years in a caravan and amassing considerable wealth Mr. W. West recently purchased land in Oswaldtwistle and it is a permanent abiding place for several of his caravans. There his death took place, and yesterday the funeral procession left Oswaldtwistle for Astley Bridge, near Bolton. The hearse was drawn by six Belgian horses, the leaders carrying postillions, and following twenty coaches containing  mourners from various towns Lancashire, Yorkshire and Durnam.  After Mr. West’s death a Union Jack was hoisted half-mast  on the caravan, which was visited by hundreds of people. Born in a caravan in Essex, Mr. West was the Son of travelling hawkers of the Romany type, and he had travelled all over Great Britain. His caravan was luxuriously furnished, and he owned considerable property in Bolton







Friday 21 March 1913
  Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
  Lancashire

 FUNERAL.

REMARKABLE DISPLAY'AT HAWKER'S INTERMENT. A funeral which for elaborate ceremonial has rarely been equalled in Lancashire took place at Astley Bridge, Bolton, on Tuesday. The remains were those of Mr. W. West, who had spent the whole of the 69 years of age in his life a caravan, and he amassed considerable wealth. The funeral procession started from Oswaldtwistle, and in the hearse were six fine Belgian horses, the leaders mounted by postillions, and following came no fewer than twenty carriage containg mourners from many parts of Lancashire, Yorkshire, and Durham. The coffin was of black oak, lead lined, with silver mountings, and the whole funeral was carried out on a most extensive scale. Mr. West was born in a caravan in Essex, his parents being travelling hawkers and dealers and he had wandered all over England, Scotland, and Wales, but during the last years had spent the greater part of  his time in Lancashire, and was often to be found in the Lake District. His caravan was luxuriously furnished and bore some  beautiful carvings upon its exterior. Some time ago Mr. West purchased a valuable piece of land at Oswaldtwistle, and there established  the headquarters for his caravan. He had also a considerable amount of property in Bolton. He had six sons and three daughters, all whom follow the  example of their parents in being van dwellers. During the time the body has lain in the coffin in the caravan, the place has been visited by hundreds of people. Attached to the caravan was a flag pole, and upon this the Union Jack was floated half-mast. It was no easy matter to trace relatives and friends who were to be invited to the funeral, and to enable this to be this to be done something like £5 was spent on telegrams alone
 

  Saturday 22 March 1913
  Burnley News
  Lancashire

 
GIPSY FUNERAL.

IMPOSING CEREMONY AT OSWALDTWISTLE. imposing gipsy funeral took place, on Tuesday, the deceased being William West, (69), who for some time had lived in his caravan on a plot of land behind the Castle Inn, Oswaldtwistle. West purchased this land at considerable cost in order that he might remain there undisturbed. He was a person of considerable wealth, owning property in Bolton, and was held in esteem by the members of the Romany tribe. There was a large gather of gipsies, for the funeral, most them being attired in black, although a few of the older men wore their working clothes. The body was enclosed in a Oak coffin, lead lined, with silver mountings. An open-air service was held near the caravan, and the coffin afterwards placed in a  hearse horses, with a postillion. Then came a open landau filled with wreaths, a prominent place being occupied by a floral crown, which symbolised the high position held by West in a particular branch of the tribe Following the landau were twenty mourning coaches, which were frequently added to by relatives and other gipsies who joined the funeral procession to Astley Bridge, near Bolton, where the interment took place. Whilst the body lay in the caravan the union Jack was flown over it at half-mast. West was a general dealer by trade, and had travelled over the Kingdom
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 29 December 19 20:20 GMT (UK)
 
Tuesday 30 September 1913
 Globe
  London

 HAWKER’S FORTUNE.

Mr. William West, described as of “Back of Castle Inn,” Oswaldtwistle, Accrington, Lancs, hawker, who had lived the whole his life in a caravan, and who in intestate, left an estate of the gross value of £4,462. His widow. Mrs. Sarah West, having  renounced administration of the property, letters of administration thereof have been granted to the heir-at-law. Mr. Samuel Gripper West, licensed hawker,   Back of Castle Inn


Friday 03 October 1913
 Shipley Times and Express
  Yorkshire
 
STRONG PASSION FOR A CARAVAN.
Described as hawker, of “the back Castle Inn,” Oswaldtwistle. Accrington, Lancashire. Mr. William West, who died on March 13 last at the ago of 69. left an estate of the gross value of £4462, and letters of administration have  been granted to the heir-at-law. Mr. Samuel Griper West, a licensed hawker, also described  as of “the back of Castle Inn,” Oswaldtwistle. During tho whole of his life Mr. West had lived in a caravan His business prospered he came tobe  one of  the best-known travelling hawkers in Lancashire, and according to reports he acquired considerable property in that county, but nevertheless nothing could induce him to desert his beloved caravan. His faithful horse and his comfortable vehicular home, with its well-polished array of stockin-trade clinging to the exterior in every conceivable position appealed to him more than any erection of bricks and mortar such he could have afforded to inhabit. He was a witty soul, and the brisk sale of his goods in market towns on market days proceeded with a joviality worthy of the happier moments of Dickens’s “Dr. Marigold.” 

 
  Wednesday 17 December 1924
  Lancashire Evening Post
  Lancashire



  Oswaldtwistle MOTOR DRIVER  Accrington, living in a caravan in Duncan aquare. Oswaldtwistle, was summoned for driving a motor van at a  speed dangerous to the public The Chief Constable said defendant came down the Manchester-road ..........hitching, pipe fitter, 46. Bold-street, said he saw the van strike something……….       Detective Clements said that when he saw defendant on December 7th he said he did not remember killing a dog, and said did not travel at a fast speed. Defendant denied that he could Have been going at more than 15 mile an hour, and called his uncle Walter West, and his father, william West, who all agreed that nothing was known of a dog being run over or of any signal being given to stop. The Mayor, imposing a fine of 40s and the costs of wltnesses, said the magistrates were much concerned about the driving of motors down the Manchester-road steep desent. and he hoped the driving public would take notice of it
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 29 December 19 20:21 GMT (UK)
read below about  Duncan-square, Oswaldtwistle, the Wests own this land the Heron Boswells stayed there in the records, it may be next to the castle inn, i found the castle inn was of or on union street 

Saturday 22 April 1933
 Lancashire Evening Post
  Lancashire 

 
POPULAR FIGURE Astley Bridge Funeral of Mr. S. G. West Van dwellers from many parts of the country attended the funeral at Astley Bridge cemetery yesterday, of Mr. Samuel Griper West, the owner of land at Duncan-square, Oswaldtwistle, which has been occupied by van dwellers for two generations. The hearse was drawn by six horses with & postillion. Wintering in Duncan-square and spending the summer in travelling about the country, Mr. West, a fine figure of a man, six feet one and a half inches tall, he had sold carpets far and wide until few years ago. He had five brothers and three sisters in different parts of the country, and a suvived widow, three sons  and four daughters. Flowers were everywhere. On the coffin was a large wreath of white  lilies and hanging from it was wreath of red and yellow roses. At the front was a chair fashioned in flowers. In an open motor coach laden with flowers was a cross of red tulips against a background of white flower. Behind the coach were the words “Peacefuly Rest ”in  blood-red tulips. Thirteen motor cars followed with mourners, almost entirely members of the West family, and near relatives
 
 
  Tuesday 19 September 1933
  Lancashire Evening Post
  Lancashire


 
  Osivaldtwistle Hawker s £2,358 Mr. Samuel Griper West, of Duncan-square, Oswaldtwistle, travelling hawker, left an estate of the value of £2.358. with net personalty nil Probate has been granted to widow. Mrs, Louisa West, of the same address and his sons. Samuel Griper West, also of the same residence and john Vincent West, of 1, Clark-street near Bolton, hawkers.
 

  Friday 15 January 1937
  Lancashire Evening Post
  Lancashire
 
 WEIGHTS MISSED
Story of Oswaldtwistle Man’s Visit to a Shop William West (65). a carpet hawker, living in a caravan in Duncan-square, Oswaldtwistle, was fined £2 by Accrington magistrates to-day for stealing two  weights value 1s, the property of Thomas Wilson, a herbalist, 156, Blackbum-road, Accrington. He was stated by the Chief Constable, Mr. C. H  Walters, to have entered the shop yesterday and asked for credit, which was refused, for a twopenny  purchase. The weights were afterwards missed. Evidence was called that West offered the weights for sale at another shop , and that after he had been taken to the police station with another man who was with him. the weights were found on the window ledge of the police car. Prisoner said the other man put the weights in his pocket, but this the other man denied, and and said he never entered the shop. The Chief Constable said West was a property owner and managed to live on the rent he received from that property. The Chairman. Mr, S. Wooler. said West had not told them the truth and had tried to bring a friend in, which made the matter worse
 

 


  Tuesday 26 January 1937
 Lancashire Evening Post
  Lancashire


 
  CARAVAN DWELLER’S LAPSE -Church Court Story IN Oswaldtwistle

caravan dweller, William West 68'. of Duncan-square, was fined £2 at Church-Court  to-day. for stealing from a shop, at 77, Havelock-street, Oswaldtwistle yesterday, a full set of dentures and dental articles valued at £l3 9s. 6d. Superintendent Pagett said that a Mrs. Martha Keys took the
dentures to 77, Havelock-street, the shop of Mr. John Groves, dentist, who put them in a cabinet in which were various dental articles. Later, West went into the surgery and asked for his mouth to be examined, and afterwards called at 11. Market-street, Church, and offered the teeth mentioned in the charge to Mr. Walter Barnes, a jeweller. Mr. Barnes told him they were worth nothing to him and West then went to Mr, George Edwards Parkins, who was standing outside the Commercial Hotel. West offered the teeth to Mr. Parkins, who refused them, and West then put them on the window ledge of the Commercial Hotel, and went away. The other articles were recovered from the caravan. West told the magistrates the articles were no use to him. He was silly to do such thing. Superintendent Pagett said he thought West was taking too much to drink. A further charge of stealing yesterday from the Station Hotel, Church, a pair of pince-nez glasses, value 155., the property of Emily Lee, was taken into consideration
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 29 December 19 20:22 GMT (UK)
Friday 07 November 1952
  Clitheroe Advertiser and Times
  Lancashire

Carpets! Carpets!
... Assembly Rooms,   FRIDAY NEXT, NOV. C. WEST Lice-ised Hawker 29. GREEN STREET. 


  Friday 13 February 1953
 Clitheroe Advertiser and Times
  Lancashire

   Carpets! Carpets! FINAL CLEARANCE AT THESE PRICES. SALE FOR TWO DAYS ONLY. Carpets, Rugs and Runners, Axminater ..
... 24tfe 10 a.m. to 3-30 pja. The Social Club, Westgale, Clitheroe C. WEST Licensed Hawker 29, GREEN STREET, DARLINGTON WE HAVE NO CONNECTION WITH ANY OTHER DEALERS OR HAWKERS. ...

 
 
  Saturday 08 May 1954
 Burnley Express
  Lancashire


CARPETS – RUGS – CARPETS
... CLEAR: A FEW IMPERFECT CARPETS, x 2\, from £6/10/0. RUGS from 35/- COME AND BRING YOUR CORRECT SIZES C. WEST. Licensed Hawker. 29. GREEN STREET, DARLINGTON No connection with anyone or any canvassers. ...
 

Friday 05 October 1956
 Nelson Leader
  Lancashire


 All Sizes from 3x 21 yards to x 4 yards. COME IN AND BUY A BARGAIN. Free Delivery (Anywhere). J. WEST and W. FORSTER, Licensed Hawkers. Oswaldtwistle and Beverley. ...
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 29 December 19 20:22 GMT (UK)
i have put these storys on to learn of the bigger picture i am sure the Gipsys of Lancashire link up,  below i found out lots about Hale Moss, these Gipsies below i am sure link straight with the Herons Boswells not far away at Oswaldtwistle
 

Tuesday 15 April 1919
Lancashire Evening Post
  Lancashire

 GIPSY’S FUNERAL.

The funeral took place yesterday of Mr. Boss, at Bowden Parish Church. Mr. Boss, who was in his 91st year, was one of the last in the country. For over 60 years he lived on Hale Moss, Altrincham, first on the original Gipsy encampment, and for the last quarter of a century in a wooden house  erected on land provided for him by the Earl of Stamford, at a nominal rental. Mr. Boss was born at Shipley,Yorkshire.


Friday 05 June 1908
 Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
  Lancashire


   The beneficed clergymen for the Church of England deriving, as not a few of them do, some portion of stipend revenue from the public house rents and other sources not entirely unconnected with the drink trade, may support the present Licensing Bill and other action of the so-called Temperance organisations, and justify this procedure to their inner consciousness. Though we  may naturally feel that such action savours of inconsistency and is calling for criticism, it is not for us to condemn. That a function Testing solely between the clergyman, his conscience, and the Higher Power to which he submits. Apparently, however, this very humble teacher of our Lord's doctrine, Judge not, that ye be not judged; condemn not that ye be not  condemned, arrogates himself the power of condemning the brewer and all his works. During the present summer the Gypsies will receive a good deal of attention on account of the Movable Dwellings Bill of Lord Clifford of Chudleigh and of the forthcoming conference at Berne. Mr. E. O. Winstedt has an interesting article in the current number in the Journal of the Gipsy Lore Society, in which he says: Even as regarde the settlement of Gypsies, England can compare not unfavourably with most of the other countries. The Blackpool colony is almost sedentary. The Welsh Gypsies have found two half-sedentary employments, fishing and rowing visitors on the lakes, which provide for them a comfortable and ordinary means to life. In the New Forest there is a large settlement of seven hundred Gypsies at Thorny Hill, who subsist by selling flowers; and I am told there is another colony at the foot of the Malvern Hills. Crofton mentions a settlement of five families of Boswells at Hale Moss, near Altrincham. They have been settled there for sixteen years, but lived in broken-down railway cars, vans and tents, and had not given up on wandering. They went round the fairs dealing in horses and playing the fiddle, and some travelled even as far as Blackpool. One hopes that as the Gypsies from the picturesque and romantic element in our national life they will not be civilised off the face of the earth.
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 29 December 19 20:27 GMT (UK)
 these storys below is for you all to understand the bigger picture of Hale Moss Lancshire, it is very inportant to learn the bigger picture, that Earl of Stamford who was charging the Old Romany Boss Family rent at Hale Moss in the story above from 1919 as been at such things for hundreds of years, look at him below, sure he must be a great age by now merrrm


plus look at the story below from 1844 and 1849 about the railway then look at the story above about the Boss Boswells living in railway waggons, its a good clue that links everything up


  Tuesday 21 September 1779
  Manchester Mercury
  Lancashire

belonging, lying, and being in Hale aforesaid, now in the Occupation of Robert Calley the Younger, and called by the Name of Bentley’s….  and held for three Lives, under the Earl Stamford, subject to a refereed Rent of 14s ...
 
Tuesday 23 September 1783
 Manchester Mercury
  Lancashire

Tenement now in the Occupation of Joseph Banion, as Under-Tenant thereof, and held by Leale for three Lives in the Earl of Stamford, subject to a reserved Rent of 61 Lot ad, All that and Tenement, with the Out buildings, Orchard Garden, and about twenty-one ...
 
Tuesday 05 August 1788
  Manchester Mercury
  Lancashire

……Field, or Parcel Land, situated, and being by Hale Moss. near Altrincham aforesaid, in the County, called or known by the Name of the Dirty Meadow Also, to be Sold at Auction, the House of Mr. Shaw, the Bull’s Head, in the Market place, in Manchester.
 
 Saturday 12 October 1844
  Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
  Lancashire

Closes of Meadow or  Pasture Land, called the Dirty Meadow-, situate near Hale Moss, in Altrincham aforesaid, containing by admeasurement 3a. 2r. 3ap.,  Statute  measure, or thereabouts 



Saturday 23 November 1844
 Liverpool Mail
  Lancashire

RAILWAY
... the main railway, commencing in the said Township of Altrincham, and Parish of thence passing from, in, through, or into the several parishes, townships, and extra-parochial, and other places of Altrincham, Hale, and Bowden, and terminating in the said Township ...







this story below may point to an ancient place round these moss land that were used by travelling peoples over many years long ago

Friday 04 June 1847
Manchester Times
Lancashire

DISTRICT INTELLIGENCE
 Inquest.—On Wednesday an inquest was held before Mr. Roscoe, coroner, and a respectable jury, at the house of Mr. George Hulme, at the Wool Pack, on the body of a child named Patrick Cone, aged five months. It appears that the parents of the child are Irish gipsies, and had pitched their tents on Hale Moss. From the evidence of the mother, it appeared that the child had been in a delicate state of health for some time, and on Tuesday morning she found it dead in bed. Mr. Pownall, surgeon, stated that he had examined the body, and it was his opinion that the child had died from a disease called the marasmus. Verdict accordingly.—There are three families connected with this tribe; they are of the very lowest grade of human beings, and seem to get their living by begging. This neighbourhood is much infested with such characters. One of the families pitched their tent in a hollow on the Moss, and one night, during a storm, the rain came down in torrents and flooded them out 
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 29 December 19 20:28 GMT (UK)
 
  Wednesday 01 September 1847
 Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
  Lancashire


 News of the Neighbouring Towns. ALTRINCHAM. Curious Hatch.—Mr. Massey, of Altrincham, this week observed a chicken come chirping from the horse midden. It is supposed that a hen must have laid an egg there and that the heat of the manure had hatched it ...

  Wednesday 22 September 1847
  Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
  Lancashire

General Intelligence
  A Curious Fact There is at this time to be seen Hayman's farm, Hale Moss, near Baguley, a nest of hornets, which have completely destroyed a valuble hive of bees adjacent and abstracted the whole of the honey....

   Saturday 16 October 1847
  Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
  Lancashire

 News of the Neighbouring Towns. ALTRINCHAM Monster Mushrooms.—Three mushrooms were gathered this week, in Hale, weighing unwards of a pound each, the largest measuring twelve inches across; we never saw such before

Friday 24 December 1847
  Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
  Lancashire

 A RABBIT COURSING for Fat PIG, A weight. 35 score, to be ran for at the house of Mr. Henry Lees, the sign of the Wolf, Hale, near Altrincham;   no dog to exceed 221bs.;   
 

 Saturday 08 January 1848
  Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
  Lancashire
 
THE EARL OF STAMFORD AND WARRINGTON’S BIRTHDAY
Good health of the Earl of Stamford and Warrington, and longlife to him. The toast was received with unbounded applause. The toasts which next followed were the health of the noble Earl's sister, Lady Margaret Milbank, the only near relative of the Earl

Saturday 23 June 1849
  Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
  Lancashire

 crops.-the proximity to the railway terminus, at Hale Moss, near Altrincham, renders this property desirable to any party wishing to combine a country residence with convenient access to Manchester.-Hale Lodge house, which is in good repair, is pleasantly situated ...

  Saturday 01 May 1852
  Preston Chronicle
  Lancashire

FIRES ON THE MOORS AND MOSSES
  The moss is the property of the Earl of Stamford and Warrington, who will be the only sufferer. On Monday the wind having subsided, all further danger was considered at an end. 
 



 
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 29 December 19 20:28 GMT (UK)
 
 Saturday 03 September 1853
 Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
  Lancashire


... Manchester and Altrincham turnpike-road and the Duke of Bridge water's Canal, and is in high state of cultivation. Lot 2. All that Field or Close of LAND, situate near Hale Moss, in Altringham aforesaid, called the Moss Field or Dirty Meadow, containing la. lr. Ip. of the large Cheshire measure or thereabouts, and now in the occupation of Thomas Gibbon, tenant. ...
   


Saturday 29 October 1853
  Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
  Lancashire

 THE EARL OF STAMFORD AND WARRINGTCN'S RENTS.—Notice hereby given, for the receipt of the RESERVED and CHIEF RENTS due to the Earl of Stamford and Warrington at Michaelmas Day last, for the manor and parish of Ashton-under-Lyne, in the county...........
 
  Tuesday 17 October 1876
  Manchester Evening News
  Lancashire

LOCAL AND DISTRICT NEWS
... Philological Society in London. In the course his paper Mr. Crofton computed the number of gipsies in Lancashire and Cheshire, including the permanent camp at Altrincham, to be about 300. There are several family graves in the parish churchyard at Ashton-under- .....
 
Monday 06 May 1878
 Manchester Evening News
  Lancashire 

 Mossley Road, ln Ashton-under-Lyne aforesaid, containg superficial yards or thereabouts, subject to the payment to the Earl of Stamford and a yearly chief or ground rent of £6. Is., together with the substantial and convenient Dwelling- House known as Springfield ...


Friday 15 November 1878
  Manchester Evening News
  Lancashire

FREEHOLD PLOT of LAND, situate near Hale Moss, Altrincham aforesaid, part whereof is fronting the Altrincham Gasworks, commonly called Dirty Meadow, containing 2a. 3r. and 10p., statute measure or thereabouts   

  Monday 25 October 1880
 Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
  Lancashire


.. Saturday afternoon, Mr. Joseph Gaskaith, mayor of Altrincham, opened a new park at Altrincham, in the presence of an immense number of people. The park consists of a piece of ground formerly known as Hale Moss, and consisting of 16 acres land, which has been ...


Friday 11 October 1901
  Manchester Evening News
  Lancashire


MANCHESTER AND ITS SUBURBS
... obtaining a quid pro quo in respect of freeholders' rights Hale Moss, which has been enclosed by the trustees. They are also endeavouring to arrive at a settlement of the question on whether the roads on the moss are highways repairable by the inhabitants............. 


  Tuesday 07 August 1906
 Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
  Lancashire

EARL OF STAMFORD'S WELCOME. PRESENTATION OF ADDRESSES. To morrow the Earl Stamford takes up his residence at Dunham Park, Bowdon. The occasion naturally will give rise to celebrations on a considerable scale, and in addition to the festivities usual at ...
 

   
   Friday 28 February 1908
  Manchester Courier and Lancashire General Advertiser
 Lancashire


 Altrincham Urban District Council, twenty-six dwellings having been erected, at a cost of £4,260, on a site reclaimed from Hale Moss. The houses, which have all been let, are semi-detached, and the rents range from 3s. to 4s. 9d. weekly. ...

if you look at the story above and see how it cost £4,260, to build twenty-six dwellings in 1908 then go back a page on here to 1913 to the death of William West and see how he left an estate of the gross value of £4,462. it just goes to show how wealthy a person he had become, this is how you use the storys to educate yourself to the bigger picture, read into the storys they all come alive

 
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Sunday 29 December 19 20:36 GMT (UK)
   
click on this web site  "Friends of Stamford Park" you will read of the old history of Hale Moss,
read  about the Gipsies of Hale Moss

small extract

"Gypsies in Hale had well-known leaders Charles and Emperor Boss. In 1871 a Boss family on the Moss consisted of Uriah, his wife Sinai, and Uriah’s father Joseph. A second Boss family was Charles, his wife Lyari and children Eli, Walter and Emperor. In 1881 the Boss family on the Moss consisted of Charles, Emperor, Uriah, Eli, Lyari, Walter, Sinai, Agnes, and children Annie, Famie and Rhoda".
http://www.friendsofstamfordpark.org.uk/history/

remember Emporer Boss age 27 trade a hawker last known address Duncan square Oswaldtwistle  on the previous page, it must be the same Family, maybe its the same person

 look at this below, its like the advert the Wests had on above from the fiftys to, just look at the posts above now the names have changed from West to Douglas and their selling up Scotland i dont know what to think, i could have the lot wrong 

Wednesday 03 November 1954
  Hartlepool Northern Daily Mail
  Durham   

 ... CARPETS DIRECT FROM MILLS AND PRINCIPAL WAREHOUSES TO USER. H. DOUGLAS A SON (Licensed Hawker), Duncan Square, Accrinton. Lancs, OWING TO COLOSSAL DEMAND ANOTHER GREAT SALE of CARPETS and RUGS AT THE PALACE HOTEL, MAINSFORTH TER., WEST H’POOL, 
 

Friday 10 October 1958
Arbroath Herald and Advertiser for the Montrose Burghs
Angus
Scotland
 
CARPETS LARGE CARPETS AT BANKRUPT PRICES
... TO GIVE HARD WEAR. PLEASE NOTE: We have positively No Connection with any other firm. H. DOUGLAS (Licensed Hawker). Duncan Square. Oswaldtwistle. 
   
Friday 26 September 1958
Arbroath Herald and Advertiser for the Montrose Burghs
Angus
Scotland
 
FRIDAY ...CARPETS CARPETS DIRECT FROM MILLS AND PRINCIPAL WAREHOUSES TO USER OWING TO COLOSSAL DEMAND ANOTHER GREAT SALE ..
... TO GIVE HARD WEAR. PLEASE NOTE: We have positively No Connection with any other firm H. DOUGLAS (Licensed Hawker), Duncan Square, Oswaldtwistle. ...

Wednesday 06 April 1955
Aberdeen Evening Express
Aberdeenshire
Scotland

PLEASE NOTE: have positively no connection with any other  Licensed Hawker. DOUGLAS DUNCAN SQUARE. ACCRINGTON


 
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Saturday 20 February 21 21:53 GMT (UK)
Hi

 I am trying to locate the Heron tree that is offten wrote about i have seen it on-line several times in different formats, i am d.n.a related to a Heron Lady in this day who was born from the people below i have at present found over three hundred Gipsy related match's in my d.n.a that all hold clues if you take the time to read into them, this Lady who was born a Heron shares with me over eighty d.n.a related match's with other people who all are in or from the Gipsy Family as a whole it covers the whole range of my ancestry as regards the cousin sequence from first to eighth i wish to see how these people below join up to the wider  Boswell and Heron trees, i know there are these Boswell lines that have been the topic of much conversation and research over many years by literally everyone who dips their foot into the vast ocean of genealogy to quote a noted researcher who wrote to me long ago "they have been done to death" truthfully i have several Boswell d.n.a ancestral connection's that spans the globe and unlike the called lines i think and know through researching my own unique d.n.a to me that all the clusters interlink through the mingling of family's as a whole there is no such thing as a distink line, you can make a family look that way by writing in a format that may confuse the natural evolution to the learning's of a persons mind and hoodwink generations into a false belief that a mirage is a actual scene, truthfull a mirage is an actual scene yet is it no more than a Shakespearean wordplay that went on to rock the literal world true the mirage is in front of you so it is true yet to look beyond that which your eyes see is the focus that should and is sort by myself, so in this family below that connects to me and over eighty of my d.n.a match's that span the full range of the Gipsy's like the Lovell's Bucklands Lees and Smith of the well known names that are interspersed throughout my d.n.a in clusters and also names unknown yet they to contain all the noted peoples and family's that are wrote about throughout the history's of the written times of the people known to us in these lands as the Gipsy's, in this Heron family below i find them to be a kind of Mother ship that may be through my own personal d.n.a research well they could turn out to be proof that these family's that cross the cluster sequence and interlink several cluster are a founding family in Britain that then went also across the globe as my own d.n.a shows, there will be several of these founding family's i am sure if a person looks into their d.n.a in an honest manner they will evolve honest thought, you do not have to wring something dry to extract that which you seek, just look at history in whatever tapestry and see beyond the mirage i think there was founding family's and maybe only a few that contained clusters that roamed Europe by looking for founding family's in your d.n.a the way i do you may be able to get closer to these Europeans who themselves came out of older clusters from lands further afield, i am sure i am right in how i am researching my own genealogy through the cousin sequence in my d.n.a, if anyone can put up family trees of these people below i would be grateful, other people who hold far more cousin d.n.a that runs into the thousands may not be able to see through such a stocked yard, so by myself in being a person who is at the end of his line and also not noted in any way by the scholars of this day, for truthfully to i am bound to no man and kneel before no one, i could never sell myself out for the want of perage adulation never mind to cast my eyes to the strangers gaze in the hope of being loved, only a fool from the thought and times of long ago who chanced and danced around their local village to the drum beat of the jingled three pointed belled hat dofted from their low held head in admiration to their masters bidding and who then craved and longed for a crown that could never unfree the unchained yet the belled jingled tongue suited more their station in life in this day as also the past, it is far easier for the truth to appear in front of my own eyes, others may not see things but i tell the truth the Stanley's in my own d.n.a are also a interlinking founding cluster, this is only the truth that i have found at these present times you can see below how the Young's evolve out of the Herons in this tree, i have several Young's in my d.n.a in closer times than the Herons yet the Herons hold more family interlinking names than the Young's, to me this is evidence to which i have wrote of here, all you have to do is look with honest eyes
 
 

________________________________________

Clones Heron 1918–1973 r.i.p
came out of Amos Heron and Elsie Bosswell  Amos Heron came out of William Heron it is not shown on the free bits who Williams Mother and Father were, Elsie Bosswell came out of William Heron and Jane Boswell
no more is shown freely on this line, this is my dna match's Fathers line of descent, on the Mothers line it starts with Edith Pattison
1928–2011 r.i.p who came out of a male who's name is just shown as private, her Mother was Martha Young, the unknown male came out of Helen Welch and Thomas Pattison, Martha Young came out of  Rhoda Boswell and Noah Heron, no more is shown on this tree, i could write to my dna Cousin match but i do not really do that kind of thing, i just like to learn of things in my own way 
 
Title: Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Youngs
Post by: panished on Monday 04 October 21 06:46 BST (UK)
Hi Daisy,  (daisydew7)

Through dna testing I have several Young/Heron matches, two of them come down through Frampton, one through Nathan and the other through Joseph who both are the sons of Frampton many of the Young's seam to have connection's themselves to Scotland plus the far lands to the East, these are distant Cousin matches to me that must predate them going to America, all the names you write of are in my matches tree that they put up for me to see, you have to match first though, see if you can find me on Ancestry my profile name is (michael Leahcim) we may match for I have male and females dna matches from America who are straight descended down from Frampton plus several more American Young's they are all connected to the Palmer's Robinsons Williamsons Lovell's and everyone you could think of, another of the Young's who I match to comes out of the Blackpool Young's, its hard to find everything out though for just as the many that let you see free bits well others put up nothing, they make you write to them evan though you dna match, so i will just have to rely on what i find, this is what you wrote below.

Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
  Friday 01 October 21
 
“Hello, I’ve known my whole life that I had Romany, however I never heard my dad or my granny use that term…it was always Gypsy. My dad and granny spoke their Rom language fluently. Some people find Gypsy derogatory but it was used in my family. My granny was 100% Rom. Her dad was Joseph Young son of Frampton Young( Heron). Her mother was Delilah Boss daughter of Sampson Boss who was son of the infamous Riley Boss.

Myself, my brother, my niece and my cousin all are matching DNA on Ancestry to lots and lots of cousins that we can trace and prove are all Romany  full or otherwise.  With that said I am only a 1/4 ROM. My Dad 1/2 and my granny full. Look at your DNA match and check who their matching. I guess if you are researching and not sure if you have Rom or not it could be more challenging for sure.

  Re: Hurn Herons Hearns Young's
  Wednesday 15 May 19
 
 “michael
Riley Boss and his wife Lucy are my 3rd great grandparents but I am also related to the Hearn, Heron/ Young Family.....this is interesting. Eric Trudgill has been very helpful too as well as Anne. I find your posts here informative. Most my research has been found on my family after arriving in the USA. My great great grandfather Frampton Young came to America from England in 1855. My gg grandfather Samson Boss ( Son Of Riley and Lucy Boss) came to America as well as his Mother in the 1860’s . Thank you for posting this information.
Here is a marriage certificate of My gg grandfather Frampton’s youngest son Nathan and Pinkney, married in the USA”.


Daisy, if you go on this link below it shows you information about everything, you have to keep clicking on (next) or (back) at the bottom of each page to see more pages, I use these pedigrees shown on this web site to trace back the Family's that I dna match to, I know things may have been wrote wrong and outdated but most will be about right, I have lots of Boswell matches well several but just one straight down the line Boss but lots have the Bosses in them anyway like the ones I match to from Framptons lot, I will find and put up here more information about the Heron Young's I hope I have been of help to you, I have no idear how I connect to the Heron Young's Hearnes Herrings, not a clue but in this day I share dna with the descendant's of these Family's, in life you can only carry that which you hold, plus Ancestry are updating their Ethnicity in peoples profiles, i have noticed several Gipsy Family's now have connections to the Bengal region,this placers their travels further East, i wonder what will the science make of this, the Heron Young's offten show the Eastern lands in their Ethnicity, you just have to look at their Family history in what i have read through my dna clusters and you know that they are one of the Old lot, some names i have found to are from a very old time yet i have seldom heard their name mentioned, i do not think though that such things would be of trouble to them, in my mind Daisy you was right about the word Gipsy, its a proud word, when i came on the internet i met many people and listened into many conversations, then i listened how they downgraded the word Gipsy for the proper word was Roma, now i wondered what were people talking about, sure Romany is a good name but how can you be a Romany without being a Romany Gipsy, no one can be a Gipsy or descend from them unless you are a Romany Gipsy, it would be like walking around with no legs, that's the way of the lands round these British isles in my mind and that's the way of it, well that's just what i think, i am just a scrag end but the whole bit of scrag once came of some good stuff, i,ll wear my Gold Coins till i die.

http://www.geocities.ws/seraphim_angel_2002/HeronPedigree.html
http://www.geocities.ws/seraphim_angel_2002/HeronPedigree2.html
http://www.geocities.ws/seraphim_angel_2002/HeronPedigree3.html