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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: plug44 on Wednesday 12 September 18 07:32 BST (UK)
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Hello,
I am trying to ascertain if I have the correct person on my tree. I have a William Moore b.1857 d.1946 in ilkatshall st Andrew his grave is there and hs says he was 89. Looking at 1861 census I have him born at Hempnall yet future census say he was born winfarthing. Seems to be many Moore's born Hempnall in very small villages my only facts are his headstone and 2nd wife's grave next to his even having problem trying to ascertain 1st wife Eliza and her final resting place she was only 47 anybody with any ideas will be much appreciated I've spent too much time here, thanks
I
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Do you have his marriage certificates as they should confirm his fathers name
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Presumably this is him in 1881 born Winfarthing living at Gissing
RG11/1967 f45 p17
William Moore 25
Eliza Moore 23
Wm. Arthur Moore 2
Frederick Moore 8 mths
William bn Winfathing rest bn Gissing
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If I've got the right William Moore in 1861 - RG9/1233 folio 43 page 9 - then his parents are Robert and Sarah. Looking at the birth registration for brother David, registered 1860 in Depwade, then his mother's maiden name was Francis. There is a marriage in Depwade District in December quarter 1855 between Robert Moore and Sarah Ann Francis.
Have you looked at the parish registers for baptisms of the children?
There is a baptism at Hempnall on 4 January 1857 for William, son of Robert and Sarah Ann Moore.
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William's birth was registered in December quarter 1856 in Depwade District - Volume 4b, page 222. Mother's maiden name is Francis.
To verify his date of birth - purchase the birth certificate. You can currently obtain a pdf file for £6.00 from GRO website. www.gro.gov.uk
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If your William is the one who married Eliza, the marriage certificate would show his father’s name.
Census information shows a couple of options so it is best to start with what you know and if William and Eliza are your ancestors, I would start there.
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If he died in 1946, he should on 1939 register.
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Presumably this is him in 1881 born Winfarthing living at Gissing
RG11/1967 f45 p17
William Moore 25
Eliza Moore 23
Wm. Arthur Moore 2
Frederick Moore 8 mths
William bn Winfathing rest bn Gissing
Looks like Eliza's maiden name is Francis as well.
added
married Q1 1877 Depwade district. William's name as Moor without e on index
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William's birth was registered in December quarter 1856 in Depwade District - Volume 4b, page 222. Mother's maiden name is Francis.
To verify his date of birth - purchase the birth certificate. You can currently obtain a pdf file for £6.00 from GRO website. www.gro.gov.uk
If he was born late 1856, he should only be 24 in 1881 not 25 as census would be taken before his birthday
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If I've got the right William Moore in 1861 - RG9/1233 folio 43 page 9 - then his parents are Robert and Sarah. Looking at the birth registration for brother David, registered 1860 in Depwade, then his mother's maiden name was Francis. There is a marriage in Depwade District in December quarter 1855 between Robert Moore and Sarah Ann Francis.
Have you looked at the parish registers for baptisms of the children?
There is a baptism at Hempnall on 4 January 1857 for William, son of Robert and Sarah Ann Moore.
A comprehensive published tree but no marriage details other than indexes, shows this William married to Sarah Hardingham in 1881 and then in later censuses.
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as u can see I am newcomer on here, again surprised with so many replies, thank you. I will try to address all, firstly Heywood I have on my tree just what you have posted. lizzie I do have his birth certificate it shows 14th November 1856 with Robert and Sarah as parents but as I mentioned before on Williams headstone clearly says he was 89 when he died making his birth 1857, there is a baptism 4th Jan 1857, so don't know if this is the same William Moore because of the difference in year. I have the 1939 register, confirms his birthdate as 1856 still not sure if its the right person just thinking if age on headstone incorrect. looks like he could have been born in winfarthing not hempnall but means he was born in 1856, doesn't seem to make sense! the only facts I have is the gravestone, family photos of children and names even his 1st wife eliza I have one photo only and have to assume its her other photos have names of children written on them but they are the only evidence available.
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I am assuming from your reply that you don't have the marriage certificate for him. You really do need this to confirm his fathers name
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I'm not sure why you are seemingly confused by the baptism date of January, when the child was born in the previous November :-\ It seems fairly reasonable to me. :)
You also have to remember that the information on William's headstone was NOT provided by William himself :o That information was provided by someone else!
As rosie99 says - his marriage certificate/s will go a long way to settling the confusion.
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I do have his birth certificate it shows 14th November 1856 with Robert and Sarah as parents but as I mentioned before on Williams headstone clearly says he was 89 when he died making his birth 1857,
when in 1946 did he die? If earlier than 14 Nov he wouldn't have had his 90th birthday yet.
Did he have daughter Lily?
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Someone born in November 1856 and died in March quarter 1946 would indeed only be 89!
However, as has been said, that William Moore married a Sarah Hardingham and he died in 1944.
Are you positive 'your' William Moore is the one who married an Eliza?
Can you tell us your line of descent from William so we can ascertain that you are indeed on the right trail?
Annette
PS I've just seen a tree that's clearly wrong on Ancestry - it shows a William Moore born 22/3/1856 Winfarthing married to Eliza Francis and that he died 14/9/1918?? Not so - this William was still alive and kicking in 1939!! So, knowing how you connect to William Moore is important for us if we are to help you and ensure that you are following the right man. It's a common name and too many possibilities to be sure.
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If 'your' William Moore is indeed the one who married Eliza Francis I think I've sussed out his birth registration/baptism.
According to Winfarthing baptisms (on FreeReg) a William Garrard was baptised 5/4/1856, illegitimate son of Mary Ann Garrard.
Mary Ann Garrard married a Henry Moore in June quarter 1856 Guiltcross Regn. District - FindMyPast has a copy of the banns at Diss, Norfolk (not actual marriage entry) which states Henry Moore was of the parish of Diss and that Mary Ann Garrard was of the parish of Winfarthing.
In 1861 Henry and Mary Ann are living in Diss with William 'Garrod' aged 5, and Arthur Moore aged 2.
Thereafter William is William Moore.
Found a William Garred (original index page states Garrod) birth entry in March quarter 1856 Guiltcross - ref. 4b 249 - and so looked on GRO's own site to check the mothers maiden name which I was expecting to see as blank as he was born illegitimately. Not there on any variation of the name Garrod. I then looked under Moore and there he was - exact same reference number - but no mothers maiden name shown indicating illegitimacy.
This situation has come up before on Rootschat - an illegitimate birth is registered correctly (as here) in mothers maiden name and yet when you go to the GRO's own site - even quoting all the exact details of district, qtr., year and reference nothing comes up at all. If knowing the father's surname you enter the details again - as Moore - up it pops. When GRO have been adding mmn's to birth records one can only assume that William's original birth certificate in name of Garrod has details of his father on it and when they have produced their new site index they have recorded the birth as Moore but left mmn blank indicating illegitimacy (if parents were married her name should show as Garrod (or Garrard) whatever the correct spelling was).
I find this action of GRO very confusing - a copy of their original index page correctly shows a childs surname at the time of their birth (their mothers if illegitimate) and yet when you go to the listing now on their own site they are now showing said child, as in this instance, with the fathers surname of Moore. Anyone using just the new GRO index would look at that entry of William Moore with no mmn shown and believe that he was the son of a 'Miss' Moore when that is simply not the case.
Annette
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I should have added that it certainly looks as if the William born at Winfarthing was born 22/3/1856, bp.5/4/1856 (and correctly) as William Garrard (as parents not married at that time) but if you want to now confirm this you will need to apply for his birth certificate from the GRO own site and apply for it with the name William Moore which is how they now have it listed.
What a palaver they are causing.
Annette
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Annette, I think you may have solved it as we do have a Garrod somewhere and we were trying to slot her in , I will go away and write it down and see if it all makes sense, this tree (as the futters you commented on) is my wife's and her cousin in the states, who is pulling her hair out trying to get to the truth!