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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Matherino on Wednesday 12 September 18 10:37 BST (UK)
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Hi
I'm relatively new to all this. Can anyone give me some general pointers to finding burial records. Short of trailing round every cemetery in Northumberland, would a visit to the archives at Woodhorn (20 mins away for me) be beneficial? I would add that I've never visited an archive before. The information I have for some ancestors is the year they died and roughly where they lived at the time of death. Would I need to order and see the death cert to get the exact place and date of death. Places I have are the Rothbury area, Cowpen and Alnwick. Finding a grave of some of these individuals may help trace dates of death for certain spouses for whom I've been unable to trace a date of death.
Any help greatly appreciated.
Paul
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Yes, the archives would be a good bet for the information, but unless you are near enough and have the time to visit regularly I'd advise doing some groundwork first to have an idea of which records to look at.
What sort of time frame are you talking about?
If you can give us an example, (name, age, year of death, any census info etc you have to show where they were living) we can perhaps help with where and how to search for that time frame and area.
Boo
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Hi, thanks for your response.
An example would be James Robert McLaren, died 1952 aged 81, living in Alnwick as per the 1939 Register. Have physically searched Alnwick Cemetery and found no trace of his grave. Not to say its not there but I just haven't been able to find it. A burial record would hopefully confirm confirm these details.
Thanks
Paul
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Hi, thanks for your response.
An example would be James Robert McLaren, died 1952 aged 81, living in Alnwick as per the 1939 Register.
Do you definitely know that he was actually living in Alnwick when he died? His death is registered in Northumberland North Second registration district which comprised a huge number of parishes
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/northumberland%20north%20second.html
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Not easy online this recent. Though you have looked around the cemetery, there may not have been a gravestone at all, so as you say not finding one doesn't mean he isn't buried there and you'd need to check the burial registers.
Okay, so first thing I did was check FreeBMD and there is a death registered in Q1 Northumberland North Second District for a James R W McLaren, aged 81. So that looks like his death registration and tells me where he died. UKBMD gives me the places covered by that registration district
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/northumberland%20north%20second.html
Which is quite a long list and you need to bear in mind that, at his age, he may well have been living with a son or daughter who could have lived anywhere in the area and therefore may have been buried elsewhere in a civil cemetery or even in a churchyard (so you may need to check Parish burial records too)
A date and place of death, plus home address at time of death (if, for example he died in hospital) is very useful when searching for a burial - in any decade and in any register/newspaper/ database. A death cert from the GRO (or the slightly cheaper .pdf option) would give you that info. For me, the budget is limited and unless its my direct line I look for alternate sources of that info.
So I checked to see if there was a will or grant of administration for his estate (may/may not have been one) which would give me his exact date of death and, at that time, usually where he had been living, where he died and who did the probate/admin.
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
Unfortunately there is no entry in the probate calendar for him - but its always worth a shot.
Then I checked the available online newspapers for the Alnwick area, to see if there is a death announcement which would mention funeral arrangements, but there isn't yet anything in the database for that area this recent. The only one they currently have for that decade is the Alnwick Mercury for 1950.
Another good source of free info is https://www.gravestonephotos.com, which do have 80% of the existing gravestones in Alnwick in their database - but sadly no Mclarens
Alnwick Library may have old copies of the local papers if you can get there - I have no experience of either the local libraries or the archives at Woodhorn but others may help with info. The Woodhorn site has info on their holdings and details of what to expect if you visit and opening times. Research will most likely involve using a microfilm reader so I'd tell them in advance to ask them to reserve one if possible.
The Northumberland council site says on this page
http://www.northumberland.gov.uk/Registration/My-Northumberland-Wedding/Copy-certificates.aspx#searchingforgraves
That says if you are searching for a grave post 1900 to contact the cemetery you think they may be buried in - again a date and address would greatly help - though do be aware that there may be a charge and in some councils the charges can be hefty. Shy bairns get nowt though so email and ask. If they say there is a charge you don't have to proceed if its too expensive.
http://www.northumberland.gov.uk/Registration/Deaths/Crem.aspx
contact details are there.
Good luck with it, come back if you need further help.
Boo
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Thanks for your advice. Clearly, a copy of the death cert may well narrow down the search. He's great grandfather so cost is probably worth it. Thanks again.
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Sorry I couldn't give more specific help, but hopefully the general pointers will help with others.
As he is a direct line ancestor it 'is' good to document them in as much detail as possible and the death cert is one of those things which is on my 'definite' wish list. (though sometimes it has to wait a while till the budget allows)
Good luck with it and if you get a specific place of death it may well be worth posting back as someone may have access to the burials in that area.
Boo
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I notice that you have burials for the Cowpen area. There's not much in the way of churchyards in that area so the first place to look would be Cowpen civil cemetery.
Have you got any names?
Christine
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Hi
I thought I would post back with an update following my initial post and all your helpful posts in response. I have visited for the first times the Archives at Woodhorn.
Boo, by shear chance I discovered the actual date of death and burial place of the person I detailed, James McLaren. The lady archivist at Woodhorn was showing me things there and it so happened she had a printed transcript for Spitalford Cemetery near Embleton. I mentioned the surname McLaren and she opened a page to display numerous McLarens including the said James. I had actually visited the cemetery previously as I was aware of various relatives of James buried there but hadn't seen a grave for James. I knew he lived in Alnwick so assumed, wrongly, that he was buried there. The transcript for Spitalford showed he was buried there, the date of burial, the actual date of death and place of death. From FreeBMD I was only aware of the year of death. I'll have to re-visit the cemetery to see if I can find his grave.
Christine, in answer to your question about Cowpen, I had in mind one individual, Mark Allan (possibly spelt Allen), born Monkseaton 1854. I am unaware of his date of death but had him on the 1911 Census living in Cowpen. I guess I was wondering if he died there and was buried at Cowpen Civil Cemetery. As I said above, I have just visited Woodhorn and managed to find a printed transcript for Cowpen Cemetery. There was no trace of a Mark Allan or Allen being buried there. This ties in with finding no trace of him dying in the area on FreeBMD. The only Mark Allan that leaps out from that site, based on his date of death, is of someone dying in Sunderland in 1923. There are 2 Mark Allens showing, one dying in Auckland 1915, the other in Leicestershire 1936. My guess is the Sunderland person but I am wondering on how to confirm this. I've never requested a death cert from GRO but have seen examples. If memory serves they do not show parentage, only place and date of death and informant. The informant if a relative may confirm things but it seems a long shot. Not sure if anyone has any tips on how to proceed here. The 1921 Census once it becomes available may confirm things if it shows him living in Sunderland. Few years to wait for that though.
Thanks
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Boo, by shear chance I discovered the actual date of death and burial place of the person I detailed, James McLaren. The lady archivist at Woodhorn was showing me things there and it so happened she had a printed transcript for Spitalford Cemetery near Embleton. I mentioned the surname McLaren and she opened a page to display numerous McLarens including the said James. I had actually visited the cemetery previously as I was aware of various relatives of James buried there but hadn't seen a grave for James. I knew he lived in Alnwick so assumed, wrongly, that he was buried there. The transcript for Spitalford showed he was buried there, the date of burial, the actual date of death and place of death. From FreeBMD I was only aware of the year of death. I'll have to re-visit the cemetery to see if I can find his grave.
Pleased you found more information.
According to this page:
https://www.northumberland.gov.uk/Registration/Deaths/Crem.aspx#cemeteries
Spitalford Cemetery is managed by the Embleton Joint Burial Committee. That page has both a phone number and an email address for them. If you contact them they may be able to tell you if a headstone was erected on the grave and give you an idea of where in the cemetery the grave was - I have no idea of the size of the cemetery but even if they can give a rough idea that would help you locate it.
Boo
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The only Mark Allan that leaps out from that site, based on his date of death, is of someone dying in Sunderland in 1923.
Durham Records online have a transcription of the burial record for Mark Allan died 1923 and is buried in Sunderland Cemetery.
Buried 17th August 1923, Mark Allan, of 9 Randolph Street, age 68, steward
Not much to go on, though the age is about right, but perhaps the occupation may help to confirm or discount this entry?
Boo
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Mark Allen, who died in 1936, has a an entry in the probate calendar.
Can be viewed for free at https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
ALLEN Mark of Barwell-road Kirkby Muxloe Leicestershire died 19 June 1936. Probate Leicester 11 August to George Edward Allen joiner and Emma Marshall widow. Effects £1059 1s 10d
NB the two people named were his executors, not necessarily the main beneficiaries,
That info may help to confirm/discount this death being the Mark you are looking for.
Boo
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Back to Sunderland and the Mark Allan who was buried there
Sunderland Daily Echo and Shipping Gazette
15 August 1923
Deaths
ALLAN at 9 Randolph Street, on August 14, aged 68 years, Mark Allan beloved husband of the late Mary Allan, to be interred Sunderland Cemetery on Friday. Cortege to leave residence at 2.30. R.I.P.
and
ALLAN At 9 Randolph Street, on August 14, Mark Allan, son of the late Mark and Ann Allan. Deeply mourned by his two sisters, Mrs E Bramley and Mrs E Johnson.
Boo
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Hello Boo
Amazing the details you found. They do however confirm that the Sunderland Mark Allan is not the person I'm looking for (parents don't match). I don't think the Leicester Mark Allen is him either. On the 1891 Census, there is a Mark Allen living at Kirkby Muxloe with various children, among them a Edward G Allen and an Emma Allen. I'm guessing that these are the 2 mentioned in the Probate entry. Am going to go back to FreeBMD and will play around a bit with the date of birth (it certainly varied on the census') and will also try and tie possibilities to the Census'. This may help narrow things down.
Thanks again for all your help.
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Pleased it helped - sometimes even knowing which registration it 'isn't' is a step in the right direction.
Come back if you get more registration options, I'm afraid that age at death on a death cert is an inexact science, even if the informant knew them well.
Boo
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If his age could have been out, there is
June 1915 Gateshead 10a 1271
Allan, Mark
age 65
Buried at Saltwell Cemetery, 3 June 1915.
Labourer. 13 Morrison Street.
Image here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L96W-KQZW?i=596&cat=825084
Do you know when and where Ellen died?
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Hello jonw65
This is great information as I think this is the person. Yes the age at death is tricky but 2 things stand out. One, from looking at the last 2 census' (1901 and 1911) I can find no other Mark Allan that would be an obvious candidate. And two, the burial record shows his occupation as labourer. This was my ancestor's occupation on the those last 2 census'. I would also add that his age has been all over the place on the census', the 1911 one had his age about 2 years older than his actual age.
You also ask about his wife. One of the things I had when starting out on this research was a scrap of paper written by Mark's grandson (no longer with us) stating that Ellen was knocked over and killed by a car in Warkworth. Very specific but no date. FreeBMD shows an Ellen Allan died in 1920 Alnwick District that covers Warkworth and with an age that ties in exactly with her date of birth in 1857. No other candidates show so my assumption is that this is Mark's wife. At this stage I have no other details such as place of burial. Was she buried in Saltwell along with Mark. That would certainly confirm things.
I would add that I'm not too familiar with the FamilySearch site so haven't been able to trace anything for her. One of the things I did notice however was that a general search on Mark Allen showed an entry matching my ancestor save that it had his date of death as 1895. This is patently wrong as he was still alive on the 1911 Census. Not sure why this would be. Clearly the Mark Allan dying in 1895 is another Mark Allan but not my ancestor. Unless there were 2 Mark Allans born in Tynemouth District in 1854 but of course FreeBMD only shows the one, my ancestor as confirmed by the mother's maiden name.
Thanks again
Oh and Boo I whole heartedly agree with you in that eliminating any particular possibility is always a big step in the right direction. As has certainly been the case here.