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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Steve Mc on Thursday 13 September 18 12:16 BST (UK)
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I am researching Charles Silvya Flower (1857 - 1914, Victualler) and family. In the British Newspaper Archive I found the following story regarding Charles Silvia Flower; Reynolds's Newspaper, August 9th 1896: Charles Silvia Flower, of The George, George Street, Christchurch was fined £30 for diluting beer.
All of Charles Flower's adult and family life seems to have been in and around London. In the years prior to and after 1896 the Flower family was living in St Lukes, East London and Leyton, London.
Can anyone tell me where Christchurch (George Street) in London is?
Any assistance appreciated
Steve Mc
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I am researching Charles Silvya Flower (1857 - 1914, Victualler) and family. In the British Newspaper Archive I found the following story regarding Charles Silvia Flower; Reynolds's Newspaper, August 9th 1896: Charles Silvia Flower, of The George, George Street, Christchurch was fined £30 for diluting beer.
All of Charles Flower's adult and family life seems to have been in and around London. In the years prior to and after 1896 the Flower family was living in St Lukes, East London and Leyton, London.
Can anyone tell me where Christchurch (George Street) in London is?
Any assistance appreciated
Steve Mc
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This page seems to show a number of options:
http://www.census1891.com/streets-g.php
In Marylebone, Southwark or Whitechapel. Will need to investigate further to see if there is a pub 'The George' in those areas.
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Duplicate post
posts now merged
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It is at 1 George Street, as per the link I put on other thread
https://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs/SouthwarkChristchurch/GeorgeTavern.shtml
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You can see George Street, Christchurch nicely on this parish map (click on the map a couple of times to enlarge it) http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mpx/
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I wonder if The George was where the PH is on this map:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=19&lat=51.5048&lon=-0.1040&layers=163&right=BingHyb
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Many thanks Ruskie. The Public House shown on that map is the 'White Hart' which is still functioning as a pub. If the numbering of the street is still running the same direction I assume the George being at No.1 is then at the western end of George St on the corner of Blackfriars road. That map is a great research tool.
Regards and thanks
Steve Mc
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Many thanks Ruskie. The Public House shown on that map is the 'White Hart' which is still functioning as a pub. If the numbering of the street is still running the same direction I assume the George being at No.1 is then at the western end of George St on the corner of Blackfriars road. That map is a great research tool.
Regards and thanks
Steve Mc
Yes, that is the one I was thinking might be The George. (I didn't see the other PH on George St cnr Gambia, nor the one which is now The White Hart) :) You might expect the numbering to have started at Number 1 from Blackfriars Rd.
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Many thanks Ruskie. The Public House shown on that map is the 'White Hart' which is still functioning as a pub. If the numbering of the street is still running the same direction I assume the George being at No.1 is then at the western end of George St on the corner of Blackfriars road. That map is a great research tool.
Regards and thanks
Steve Mc
Street numbers are shown on this map https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/531768/180127/13/101329
The street has been renamed by 1916
Stan
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Looks like there are three in George St and the White Hart on Great Suffolk Street (and George St). I’m thinking The George is the PH to the left hand end (west end) of George St
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Looks like there are three in George St and the White Hart on Great Suffolk Street (and George St). I’m thinking The George is the PH to the left hand end (west end) of George St
The numbering is on this map. You can see number 1 at the western end of Dolben Street (which used to be George Street)
https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/531713/180132/13/101329
Edit Between my reading this thread and posting Stan had edited his posting to include the same map. When I looked at it it simply said 'deleted' :)
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Looks like there are three in George St and the White Hart on Great Suffolk Street (and George St). I’m thinking The George is the PH to the left hand end (west end) of George St
The numbering is on this map. You can see number 1 at the western end of Dolben Street (which used to be George Street)
https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/531713/180132/13/101329
Excellent map JenB. That also shows The White Hart is on Great Suffolk Street rather than George/Dolben. Pub on cnr of Gambia is not there (yet).
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Some pictures of the George Inn Southwark on Collage:
https://collage.cityoflondon.gov.uk/quick-search?q=george%20inn%20southwark&WINID=1536844219267
Oh hang on, it's not that one is it? I am getting confused now haha!
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Some pictures of the George Inn Southwark on Collage:
https://collage.cityoflondon.gov.uk/quick-search?q=george%20inn%20southwark&WINID=1536844219267
Oh hang on, it's not that one is it? I am getting confused now haha!
No that's not the one. Too many George's ;D
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George Inn is a different pub. George Inn is still in existence in Southwark
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I wonder if The George was where the PH is on this map:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=19&lat=51.5048&lon=-0.1040&layers=163&right=BingHyb
The link shows a George St, off Blackfriars Road.
South London Press, 23 Jan 1897
"John Putt (37), basket maker, was charged with assaulting C.S. Flower, licensed victualler, of the George, George Street, Blackfriars Road"
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Good find.
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I don't know about George Street. But there was a civil parish of Christchurch Southwark which was abolished in 1902. Might help with general location. See here ....
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/southwark.html
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Duplicate thread with replies and location maps :)
Topics now merged
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In his court appearance on 30 Jan, John Putt mentioned he was playing "coddam" which, I think, is known as "tip-it"?
Charles Flower's pub was described in court as "properly conducted" and he'd held the licence for a year - which ties in its being advertised as available in Jan 1896.
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Thanks hanes teulu, was that court appearance in 1895 (one year before selling)?
regards
Steve Mc
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John Putt's appearance in court for assaulting Charles was reported in the paper on 23rd Jan 1897- remanded on £10 bail. On his second appearance in court, on remand, the paper reported on 30th Jan 1897 that Putt was ordered to pay a fine of 20s or go to prison for 14 days.
Charles appears to have taken over the pub early 1896.
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Many thanks hanes teulu.
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Historical Directories
http://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/digital/collection/p16445coll4/id/27508/rec/7
Click on the blue box with the 2 arrows to zoom.
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Thanks hanes teulu
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Hi
My Great Grandfather and Great Grandmother ran the George from 1898 'til it was demolished in 1911. I have quite a lot of information if you are still looking. I'm researching all the licensees of the George going back as far as I can. Any info you have about Charles Flower would be appreciated.
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Hi Malcolm A,
your Gr Grandparents may have taken over the George from my relatives. Apart from the information already provided in the above links to this conversation, I have copied two newspaper reports in the time Flower was at the George;
Reynolds's Newspaper, August 9th 1896: Charles Silvia Flower, of The George, George Street, Christchurch was fined £30 for diluting beer
South London Press, 23 Jan 1897
"John Putt (37), basket maker, was charged with assaulting C.S. Flower, licensed victualler, of the George, George Street, Blackfriars Road"
John Putt's appearance in court for assaulting Charles was reported in the paper on 23rd Jan 1897- remanded on £10 bail. On his second appearance in court, on remand, the paper reported on 30th Jan 1897 that Putt was ordered to pay a fine of 20s or go to prison for 14 days. Charles appears to have taken over the pub early 1896.
In 1899 Charles Flower was listed as being at the "Red Lion & Key, 9 Mill Lane, Southwark St Olave, Surrey, London”, and
In the 1901 Census - "The Prince's Arm”, 20 Theobald Street, Newington.
I would be most interested to receive anything further you may have to this.
Regards
Steve Mc
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Hi
If you are happy to put your email address on this forum I'll send you all I've got, e.g. history of all the licensees I've found so far, some photos etc.
Malcolm
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Thanks Malcolm,
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