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Independent Islands => Isle of Man => Isle of Man Lookup Requests => Topic started by: mattfrombann on Thursday 13 September 18 17:52 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am trying to determine if the Henry Sinclair and Ann Gray who married in Braddan 27/8/1816 and had a son Henry baptised 14/6/1818 are the same Henry and Ann Sinclair who the had children Mary Ann 1820, John 1823, Esther 1824, Robert 1827 and William 1829 all baptised in Liverpool. Henry was a blacksmith and is probably the Henry who died in a Liverpool workhouse in 1838, aged 45. That is all I presently know about him and the spacing of the children makes me think it highly likely that the two couples are one and the same. What details are given for Henry in the marriage entry. All help much appreciated
Regards
Matt
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If you go to Familysearch and enter the marriage details one of the records that comes up show the page from the parish register.
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9396-CYWW-R?i=174&cc=1784428
Hope this works!
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Many thanks. For some reason I was on a different part of the Family Search website showing "no image available"
Anyhow, my theory remains unproven as no profession is listed for Henry, who unfortunately is probably the Henry who died in 1838 therefore missing the 1841 census. The baptismal entries for the children of a Henry and Ann Sinclair in Liverpool show his profession as "Smith", confirmed by the marriage registration of his son Robert, also a Blacksmith. Back to the drawing board
Once again many thanks for your speedy response
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Are you already aware of this marriage?
13.11.1837 St John Liverpool
Henry Sinclair - widower - occ blacksmith father Henry occ Blacksmith
Elizabeth Williams widow father John Williams occ butcher
Son Henry was born 1818 so a bit young to have been married/widowed by 1837
However - 1841 has a 23yr old Henry & Elizabeth Sinclair with a 2yr old daughter Ann but Henry is shown as born in county and occ is anchor smith which is the same on daughter Ann's baptism
At 23 Elizabeth also appears to be too young to have been married and widowed by 1837
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Baptisms at St Matthews Scotland Rd - parents Henry & Ann Sinclair
Margaret 23.6.1839
Elizabeth 10.1.1841
Both births are on freebmd and both have mmn of Lawson
In 1841 Margaret aged 2 is with Alexander (60) & Rebecca (50) Sinclair both b Ireland
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Carole.
Yes I am aware of that 1841 entry and the frustrating "in county". I believe it is Henry Junr but we will never know...
For the avoidance of further confusion, I am working backwards from Robert Sinclair , blacksmith, who married Jane Addison in Liverpool on 17th April 1852. His father was Henry, a Blacksmith. Robert was baptised in Liverpool 23rd April 1827 to Henry and Ann Sinclair. Henry is shown as "Smith " on the baptismal entry, His age bracket fits the Henry who died in the workhouse 1838, aged 45. Anyway......Just now I have had another clue that I am on the right track. A search of the newspaper archives on the Manx Museum website for Henry throws up a tantalising article in the Manks Advertiser ,Sat Feb 18 ,1804. The snippet they allow you to see without a subscription reads "the auction begins at 12 o'clock in the forenoon near Henry Sinclair's Smithy on the quay"
Matt
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In 1851 Henry Sinclair b 1819 IoM occ anchor smith is with children Jane 9 and John 6. Shown as married but no wife recorded. No death for Elizabeth
Both John & Jane's birth reg show mmn Harris
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That newspaper item is certainly looking good
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1861 for Liverpool
Henry Sinclair 65 occ blacksmith b IoM
Elizabeth 63 b Liverpool
Esther 20 dtr b Holywell - shown as Cheshire - general servant
RG9 Piece 2657 Folio 151 Page 35
So the 1837 marriage was the above couple
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And just to really confuse everybody
1871 Liverpool
Henry Sinclair 75 blacksmith
Anne 62
Both born Ireland
RG10 Piece 3772 Folio 35 Page 25
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I have Kelly ancestors who moved between the Isle of Man and Liverpool. They are a nightmare to connect. Where did you find the workhouse record?
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The 1838 burial record for Henry Sinclair aged 45 shows abode as Workhouse
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Thank you
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the IoM born Henry is probably son of Henry Sinclair and Eleanor Cretney bapt Douglas St Matthews 11 Nov 1795
Henry + Eleanor had quite a large family with youngest son George in 1816 - but never found their marriage
- they don't appear to have owned any property
nor can I find any burial or marriage of them or their children
there is also a 1794 marriage of a Henry Sinclair (a very unusual name on Island) to Ann Woods - noted as both of parish but no children found
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Carole
The marriage of Henry Sinclair to Elizabeth Williams in St John's Liverpool Nov 13th 1837 was the second for both parties. Henry's father was , guess what , Henry Sinclair, Blacksmith. I think, but have yet to confirm that Henry senior died in 1838 and his wife Ann Gray in 1837, leaving their surviving children orphans (daughter Esther died 19 months in 1825, William#1 died aged 2 in 1831, and a William#2 was bap 9/10/1832, Mary Ann married William Martin 3/6/1838). After marriage Henry and Elizabeth took themselves off to Isglan, Flintshire, Wales where the1841 census shows then with John aged 18 (almost certainly Henry's brother baptised Liverpool 22/6/1823), Robert aged 15 (the future husband of Jane Addison), William (highly likely William #2 above), and little Peter aged 2 months. It is interesting to note that Henry and Elizabeth appear to have a son John Henry baptised in St Peter's Liverpool Sept 26 1837 several months before their marriage in St John's. No sign of him in 1841 census entry. With successive generations of Henry's being smiths of one form or another it is challenging at times to separate them
Frances
I tend to agree with you about Henry being the son of Henry and Elinor Cretney. Their marriage (according to my scribble ) is in Kirk Braddam Register of 8/12/1794 with Henry junr baptised 11/11/1795 (there are several online image files for various Braddam registers and you have to hunt through all of them to find both above entries). To muddy the waters slightly there are two (?) Elinor Cretneys procreating at the same time in different parishes. The second (?) is having children by a William Connel (St Matthews I think, but I have lost my note)
I am at a loss as to how to go back another generation from Henry and Elinor. The path will inevitably lead to Scotland as the Sinclair friend for whom I am doing this research would be delighted to prove. He has rather a bee in his bonnet about the Highland Clearances....
Matt
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I ordered the death certificates for the two Henry Sinclairs who died in Liverpool in 1838. They reveal that the one who was aged 68 is quite possibly the spouse of Elinor Cretney. Details:-
Death registered Islington District of Liverpool. Died Jan 22nd, Shaw's Barn. Age 68 yrs. Profession Blacksmith. Informant; William Sinclair, Blacksmith, Wakefield St , Son. This William could be the child of Henry Sinclair and Elinor Cretney who was baptised in St Matthews Braddan 18/9/1797.
I have been frustratingly unable to locate William in any 1841 online census, but there is a possible candidate for him in 1861 census for IOM - a William Sinclair, widower, age 63, born Douglas, man servant to the Hampton family in Braddan parish.
The remaining children of Henry and Elinor also remain stubbornly elusive:- Thomas #1 1799,David 1802, James 1804, Elinor 1806, Thomas#2 1809, John 1812, Elizth 1814, and George 1816.
The other Henry Sinclair who died in 1838 in the workhouse , aged 45 , was a Mariner , eliminating any possibility that he was the Henry , spouse of Ann Gray who almost certainly remarried to Elizabeth Williams 13/11/1837 and whose son Henry married Elizabeth Harris 24/10/1836
Matt
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Thomas 1 is possibly the Thomas Sinclear bur Braddan 2 Aug 1804
William is I think bur braddan age 77 22 Feb 1871
there might be more details on www.imuseum.im - I don't have a copy of Braddan burials post 1800 and Museum library not open until Weds
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There is a will for a William Sinclair of Kirk Marown Parish , drawn up 22nd March 1827. He has no connection that I can determine with Henry Sinclair, but it contains a wealth of genealogical detail which may be of interest to other readers. You can view the original on line on LDS microfilm 0106427 starting image 76.
William was a farmer on the Estate of Craigbeg, quarterland of Ballaglioney, which he purchased from William Gellin.
Brother Alexander, a mason, of Newton Stewart Wigtonshire, married Margaret Martin. They had a son James, a tanner
Sister Jane of Glenluce, Wigtonshire married Thomas Dalrymple
Sister Isabel of Stranraer married William Douglas. They had a son James who in turn had a daughter Agnes
Sister Helen of Newton Stewart married William McIlwraith. They had a daughter Margaret.
Nephew John Sinclair (no spouse given) was a merchant in Newcastle upon Tyne
Also mentioned is Anne Bell spouse of George Maxwell, Prior's Linn , Canoby, Dumfries. Son George.