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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: serra on Sunday 16 September 18 12:59 BST (UK)
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Dear Chat.
I am looking for a relative Edwin Arnold born 1871/72 Chatham Kent. He was married to Elizabeth merchant and appeared on 1901 census Chatham with Elizabeth and his children with her.
This is a long and complicated story which involved Elizabeth putting most of her possible 12 children in Barnados - then to Canada. Children have different Fathers. She was already married when she married Edwin. She claims to Barnado's that Edwin had drowned in the Thames, but she was known to tell lies. I do have a death for Edwin January 1914 Malling
I am looking for any information regarding his whereabouts between 1911 and 1914. Why was he is Malling, and was there any truth that he drowned?
Any Information on Elizabeth Merchant after 1911 also welcomed. She would sometimes use the Surnames Brown, Arnold Barnes and Smith.
Serra xx
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I do have a death for Edwin January 1914 Malling
Do you have the death certificate as that would give the cause of death?
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Not yet I am going to order one xx
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I am puzzled as to why he would be in Malling?
He was fairly young when he died.
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That's why you need the certificate.
If you order from the GRO you can get a PDF one on line for £6.00 rather than the paper one for £9.25.
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How do you know that the Edwin who died in Malling Registration District in 1914 is the one you're looking for?
Where was Edwin in 1911?
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I am looking for a relative Edwin Arnold born 1871/72 Chatham Kent. He was married to Elizabeth Merchant
Starting with the basics:
Edwin Arnold, mmn Broadwood, birth reg Dec qtr 1871 Medway
Baptised 31 Jan 1872 Maidstone - parents Edwin & Keziah.
Married Jun qtr 1899 Medway to Elizabeth Merchant Barnes
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Looks like the family had broken up before 1911. Keziah Elizabeth Arnold (mmn Barnes) b Mar qtr 1901 Medway (entered on the 1901 census as “Jessiah” aged 1mo) was sent to Canada courtesy of Dr Barnardo’s aged 9 on the Tunisian, 5 August 1910.
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The son Elijah Arnold birth reg Mar qtr 1896 Medway (mmn Marchant) had gone to Canada aged 11 in 1907. For some reason on his Canadian marriage he gave his mother’s maiden name as Elizabeth Oliver.
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It would probably be best if Serra came back to fill in known information between 1901 and 1911 so that we don’t spend unnecessary time trying to find the last known sightings of Edwin & Elizabeth.
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Yes, it seems she must know where they both were in 1911, since she is looking for sightings of them after that date. But at the moment I can't spot either of them in 1911.
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Thank you for looking into this, I do already have the information you have found. There is so much information on this story and i refer you to these links
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=503981.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=505704.0
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=695402.9
There has been some quite extensive excellent research already done which is where i have gained much valuable information. I found this entry for Edwin in Malling and its not confirmed , which is why I am trying to ascertain his movements between 1901 and 1914. I cannot find him anywhere on a 1911 census. In fact i cannot find him anywhere at all. I cannot find Elizabeth Merchant after 1901 - mainly because she would use various alias surnames.
As you can see from the links, there are so many twists, its quite confusing mainly because there were alias names used and people jumping from place to place.
Serra
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Looks like the family had broken up before 1911. Keziah Elizabeth Arnold (mmn Barnes) b Mar qtr 1901 Medway (entered on the 1901 census as “Jessiah” aged 1mo) was sent to Canada courtesy of Dr Barnardo’s aged 9 on the Tunisian, 5 August 1910.
The son Elijah Arnold birth reg Mar qtr 1896 Medway (mmn Marchant) had gone to Canada aged 11 in 1907. For some reason on his Canadian marriage he gave his mother’s maiden name as Elizabeth Oliver.
Extensive and rather complex thread here http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=502537.msg3593916#msg3593916
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I tend to think life’s too short for ploughing through lengthy old threads to arrive at the starting information for a new query. I have had a quick look, however, and a key piece of information which we haven’t seen on this thread yet is that apparently Elizabeth is with a Frederick Oliver in Chatham in 1911.
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Another piece of the chronology: the final Arnold child is Arthur Thomas Arnold, mmn Merchant-Barnes, birth reg Sep qtr 1903 Medway.
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apparently Elizabeth is with a Frederick Oliver in Chatham in 1911.
1911 census,
6 Coronation Cottages, Manor Street, Old Brompton, Chatham.
Althenia Welch, Daughter, 24y, single, Laundress. Born Notting Hill, London. 1887
Living with her Mother Elizabeth, age 50 & Frederick Arthur Oliver, age 29 & half-brother Thomas Arthur Arnold. Elizabeth had parted from Edwin Arnold and claimed to have been married 9 years and had 1 child.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWDK-XSL
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Since Elijah Arnold gave his mother’s name as Elizabeth Oliver when he later married in Canada, it is probably fair to infer that Elizabeth was not just boarding with (the much younger) Frederick Arthur Oliver. I wonder whether she was in a relationship with him or a relative of his, and whether the relevant Mr Oliver might have been the natural father of Arthur b 1903?
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According to one of the posts in the threads "The children, date range, 1879_1904 when Arthur Thomas Arnold(Thomas) was born. He was sent to live with Charity Brown in Derby". Charity was another one of Elizabeth's Children. I'm questioning where was his father Edwin? but if you have found on the 1911 census, then he was not sent away. It has crossed my mind that Arthur may not have been Edwin's son. Still not any clearer as to Edwin's where abouts at this time.
Also Edwin's Parents (Edwin and Keziah) were still alive, getting on but still alive and I wonder why they did not intervene with the situation concerning the children. Going on research with My Arnold family it was very common for family children to reside with other relatives - who ever had room sort of thing.
I appreciate the time guys i really do
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Also it struck me that if Elijah had given his mother as Surname Oliver when he got Married - how would Elijah have known the name Oliver - was he still in some sort of contact with his mother at that time - I wonder if the brothers and sisters that were sent to Canada had contact with each other.
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Also it struck me that if Elijah had given his mother as Surname Oliver when he got Married - how would Elijah have known the name Oliver - was he still in some sort of contact with his mother at that time - I wonder if the brothers and sisters that were sent to Canada had contact with each other.
I asked myself the same question - had Mr Oliver perhaps been on the scene before Elijah and his siblings were sent away?
I noticed that when Keziah Elizabeth married in Canada (as Elizabeth Arnold) details of her father, but not her mother, were given.
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Do we have a date for when the children were sent to (or taken in by) Dr Barnardo’s?
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I will compile a list and post asap
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I also found this
Also names Edward Merchant Arnold born 19 November 1894 n 3 Sliketts Hill, Chatham, Kent. Died 1971 n Smiths Falls, Ontario, Canada, Married to a Valerie Pratt 21 Sept 1915 Brockville, Leeds County, Ontario, Canada. Edwards parents given as Edward Maggie Arnold and Brown Arnold.
The name Brown - she was living with a Thomas Brown alleged father to her Daughter Faith around 1892
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I also found this
Also names Edward Merchant Arnold born 19 November 1894 n 3 Sliketts Hill, Chatham, Kent. Died 1971 n Smiths Falls, Ontario, Canada, Married to a Valerie Pratt 21 Sept 1915 Brockville, Leeds County, Ontario, Canada. Edwards parents given as Edward Maggie Arnold and Brown Arnold.
The name Brown - she was living with a Thomas Brown alleged father to her Daughter Faith around 1892
A couple of corrections: 19 November was his baptism date, not his birthdate.
He married as Edward Ted Arnold. Parents were named on his marriage as follows:
Father: Edward
Mother: Maggie Brown
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Thanks for clarifying this for me and rectifying the mistake
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OK, so today I received a death cert confirming that the children's father Edwin Arnold died in 1914 In Kent.
We know that the final Arnold child is Arthur Thomas Arnold, mmn Merchant-Barnes, birth reg Sep qtr 1903 Medway.
Elizabeth, his wife then appears on 1911 census without husband Edwin. Living at Brompton Gillingham.
So I am looking for any information on where the children's father Edwin Arnold was between 1903 when the couple were still together and 1914 when he passed.
Serra
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Hi serra
Arthur Thomas Arnold was my husbands grandfather. I have been looking for Edwin's death for a while. Where and when did Edwin die and what off. I was told he drowned in the Thames!
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Hey, sorry for the delay in replying. I ordered a death certificate for Edwin. It stated place of death as being Medway River. There was a coroners report done but despite Kent archives searching for It, it has not been found. I sadly suspect that this may have been a suicide. Things in life was not great for him at the timevwith his marriage and children. I’m looking for newspaper reports at the moment as they would document coroner findings. I’ve just been pretty busy with work. Still the search goes on. I would live to hear a little about Arthur. Do you have a photo maybe, as I love to put a name to a face. Kind regards Sarah
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Edwin Arnold and Elizabeth Marchant are I believe my paternal great grandparents. My granddfather was William Edward George Arnold, born I believe 1897/8. He was one of many children of the union, and most of his siblings were placed with Barnados and subsequently sent to Canada. My grandfather remained in Chatham, Kent and married my grandmother Lily Lydia Arnold (maiden name) on 5 August 1920. They had 13 children, 9 surviving into adulthood.
Do you have any further information relating to the death of Edwin Arnold, who I am told by family died in the River Medway or any further information relating to Elizabeth Marchant?