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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Shropshire => Topic started by: BronwenS on Monday 17 September 18 01:34 BST (UK)

Title: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: BronwenS on Monday 17 September 18 01:34 BST (UK)
Kia ora

I am looking for the 1841 etc census for these people.  I am not sure that what I have is in fact correct and whether in fact they had only one child.  Any help appreciated.

Best wishes
Bronwen Summers
Christchurch, NZ

Richard Jones husband of Ann Edwards
b.1790 Feb 21 Condover, Shropshire, Eng.
m.1807 Jan 1 Eyton upon the Weald Moors, Shropshire, Eng (reg.)
d.1880?
O:Nailer
Census
1841
1851 Ag.Lab. House named Hook-a-gate (still married) (aged 62)  NOT SURE
Residence: New Street, Wellington

Ann Edwards wife of Richard Jones mother of Emmanuel Jones
b.1789 May 31 baptism, All saints, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng.
m.1807 Jan 1 Eyton upon the Weald Moors, Shropshire, Eng.(reg.)
d.
Children 1
1813 Jan 13 Emmanuel Jones, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng. (1812)
Census
1851 Ann Edwards 72, Welshampton House, pauper late Ag Lab. Wife  DOUBTFUL
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: maddys52 on Monday 17 September 18 02:20 BST (UK)
There are some other baptisms at Wellington to a Richard and Anne JONES, though there is a 9 year gap, so not sure.  :-\

1813  Emmanuel
1822  Sarah
1824  Emma
1827  Richard

There is a Richard JONES (nailor) with son Richard in the 1851 at New St Wellington
Richard JONES    71    married      Salop   (nailor)  - so born c 1780
Richard JONES    24                      Salop  (nailor)

HO107/1997 / 174 pg 56

Where did you get your Richard's occupation?

Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: maddys52 on Monday 17 September 18 02:51 BST (UK)
A possibility for the family above in 1841 at Dark St Wellington

Richard Jones        60     Shropshire
Ann Jones         57    
Emma Jones      15
Richard Jones     10    
William Jones     5    
Joseph Jones     3    

HO107/907/17 pg 27
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: BronwenS on Tuesday 18 September 18 10:39 BST (UK)
How odd I replied to this and attached a few things yesterday but it seems to have disappeared.
I am sure this is them.

1813  Emmanuel
1822  Sarah
1824  Emma
1827  Richard
There is a Richard JONES (nailor) with son Richard in the 1851 at New St Wellington
Richard JONES    71    married      Salop   (nailor)  - so born c 1780
Richard JONES    24                      Salop  (nailor)

I thought he was an ag labourer as I had found that on what I thought was the '51 census for them which clearly isn't correct.

I still can't find them on any of the census on Genes Reunited which is the site I pay for.  Nor on Freecen.

Regards Bronwen

Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 18 September 18 11:33 BST (UK)
A possibility for the family above in 1841 at Dark St Wellington

Richard Jones        60     Shropshire
Ann Jones         57    
Emma Jones      15
Richard Jones     10    
William Jones     5    
Joseph Jones     3    

HO107/907/17 pg 27

I canít see Richard and Ann being the parents of all here, but grandparents maybe.

Jamjar
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: Jamjar on Tuesday 18 September 18 11:54 BST (UK)
Here is Emmanuel on the 1851 and 1861, in NEW St:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGDR-489

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7BG-GTX

Wonder if this is him on the 1841 with wifeís name mistranscribed?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQRV-MML

Jamjar
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: Millmoor on Tuesday 18 September 18 14:11 BST (UK)
No I do not think that 1841 is a mistranscription. Emmanuel seems to have married twice

1st marriage to Harriet Mansell 23 August 1835 in Eyton upon the  Weald Moors (this parish is adjacent to Wellington).

(There is a burial showing in Wellington Sept 13 1843 for a Harriot Jones age 26.Address given as Street Lane).

2nd marriage 28 July 1844 All Saints, Wellington Emmanuel Jones ,widower,tailor-residence Chapel Place Father Richard Jones, nailor to Hannah Duckitt spinster,Walker Street, Father John Duckitt, butcher.

William
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: BronwenS on Tuesday 18 September 18 20:35 BST (UK)
Hi

I do have all that information, yes Emmanuel was married twice.  It is not the Dark street family.

It is Richard who I am trying to find the census details of.  He lived in New Street and was a nailor.

Many thanks
Bronwen
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: maddys52 on Saturday 22 September 18 07:49 BST (UK)
I'm pretty sure the Dark St family in 1841 is yours, as it looks like Richard snr is a nailor.
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: BronwenS on Saturday 22 September 18 09:36 BST (UK)
I am not sure why you think it is the Dark st family.

I am looking for the family of Emmanuel Jones - is there an Emmanuel in the Dark st family?

regards Bronwen


Richard Jones husband of Ann Edwards
b.1790 Feb 21 Condover, Shropshire, Eng.
m.1807 Jan 1 Eyton upon the Weald Moors, Shropshire, Eng (reg.)
d.1880?
O:Nailer
Census
1841
1851 Richard Jones nailor living at New Street, aged 71
1861
1871
1881 census died?

Ann Edwards wife of Richard Jones mother of Emmanuel Jones
b.1789 May 31 baptism, All saints, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng.
m.1807 Jan 1 Eyton upon the Weald Moors, Shropshire, Eng.(reg.)
d.
Children 1
1813 Jan 13 Emmanuel Jones, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng. (1812)
1822 Sarah Jones
1824 Emma Jones
1827 Richard Jones (nailor in 1851 census living at New St)
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: Millmoor on Saturday 22 September 18 14:31 BST (UK)
Have to say that I agree with Maddy that the Dark Street family is likely to be  the correct one.

Given that Emmanuel married his first wife in 1834 it is not surprising that in the 1841 census he is recorded with his wife and children, living in Cottage Row, Wellington.

Emmanuel Jones 25 Tailor
Harriet Jones 25
Emmanuel Jones 2
Maria Poole 9
Maria Jones 0

I know modern Wellington well, having lived in the area for a long time. I will endeavour to establish exactly where Cottage  Row and Dark Street were and will get back to you . The names are no longer used. Cottage Row must have been in Central Wellington as the 1841 census entries are sandwiched between those of Church Street and Walker Street. Dark Street in the 1841 census follows on from New Street.

William
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: BronwenS on Saturday 22 September 18 21:26 BST (UK)
Thanks William - if you are correct I need to find an Emmanuel in that family.

This is Emmanuel's details - I do have all the information about his two marriages and their children.
Harriet died in 1843.  I haven't managed to find Emmanuel's death.

Emmanuel Jones husband of Harriet Mansell & Hannah Duckett
b.1813 Jan 13 All Saints, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng. 
m.1835 Aug 23 Harriet Mansell, Eyton upon the Weald Moors, Shoprshire, Eng.
m.1844 Hannah Duckett, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng.
d.1881 (census no longer alive?)
o:Tailor
Census
1836 Dec 18 New Street, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng.
1838 Aug 7 Duncow Lane, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng.
1839 Feb 27 Duncow Lane, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng.
1841 June 6 living in Cottage Row, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng. Emmanuel 25, Harriet 25, Emmanuel 2, Maria Jones 1 month and Maria Poole aged 9.
1844 Chapel Place, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng.
1851 101 New street, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng. Emmanual Jones 39, his wife Hannah 28 (John Duckettís daughter), Harriet & Emmanualís son Emmanuel 12, Hannah and Emmanuelís children: Thomas 5, Sarah 3, Richard 1.  A visitor, John Duckett a Day labourer who was a widower and William Thomas a 34 year old Wheelwright (reg.) (photo 101 New St, St Georgeís, Telford)
1861 101 New Street, Wellington, Shropshire, Emmanuel & Hannah their children Thomas 15, Sarah Ann 13, Richard 11, Elizabeth 9, John 6, Henry 3, Hannah 1 (reg.)
1871 Emmanuel, Hannah, Richard 21 (puddler), John 17 (labourer), Henry 14 (labourer), Hannah 11 (scholar), George 8 (scholar), William 4 (scholar) living at 114 Christ Church Road, Wellington, Shropshire
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: maddys52 on Monday 24 September 18 03:22 BST (UK)
I haven't managed to find Emmanuel's death.


As wife Hannah is widowed in the 1881 census, I imagine this is probably Emmanuel's death:
Emanuel JONES (age 78) Mar qtr 1880 Wellington 6a/611

I realise the age is different, however it could be a transcription error. I cannot see another Emmanuel JONES that would be this age in Wellington at the time. I guess the death cert would clear it up, especially if the informant was someone you could identify.  :-\
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: BronwenS on Monday 24 September 18 05:35 BST (UK)
Thanks for that if it is March quarter this means Jan to March is that what you mean.

Regards Bronwen
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: maddys52 on Sunday 30 September 18 06:55 BST (UK)
Hi Bronwen, sorry for my tardy reply. Yes, the death was registered in the March quarter - so Jan, Feb or March. Here's a good explanation  :)
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/content/expert-bmd
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: BronwenS on Sunday 30 September 18 08:07 BST (UK)
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 30 September 18 10:50 BST (UK)
Hi

Just seen this thread.

Re Emanuel's death: there is a burial on 14th July 1880 Donnington Wood. No age or other information given.


Gadget 
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 30 September 18 11:04 BST (UK)
The burial doesn't fit with Maddy's civil death registration find. The only other possibility for the burial in Donnington is of a 3 year old, registered Newport, Q3, 1880  (July-Sept).
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: Millmoor on Sunday 30 September 18 12:41 BST (UK)
At that time Donnngton  Wood was a chapelry in Lilleshall Parish and part of Newport RD.

I have spent some time in Wellington Library looking at old maps and directories of Wellington. I have now established that Cottage Row was in modern day  Market Street (previously called Butcher's  Lane).

Dark Street is a bit of mystery. The only reference  I have been able to find is in the 1841 census. I have not located it on any town plans of the time or found it named in any directories. It is worth saying that New Street, which today is Wellington's main shopping street, was much longer at the time of the 1841 census, including modern day High Street and extending as far as the junction with King Street.

The description  of the ED in which Dark Street is showing in 1841 has this; " All that part of the parish of Wellington comprising the North side of New Street from the King's Head to Mr Garbutt's House including the Banyards and all the Courts and Rows adjoining".

Although I have yet to pinpoint Dark Street exactly on a map I am still very much of the opinion that the 1841 Richard Jones in Dark Street is yours.

William
Title: Re: Richard Jones 1841 & 1851 census
Post by: BronwenS on Sunday 30 September 18 20:31 BST (UK)
Many thanks to all of you for the latest information especially looking at the library at old maps etc..  I am not convinced that the Dark St family is Emmanuels because there doesn't seem to a birth of an Emmanuel in that family and it is his line that is a part of mine.  What I cannot understand is why I cannot find them on the various census?  The occupation tailor / nailor is problematic and I wonder whether I have transcribed it correctly for Emmanuel. I think it is tailor, and she was a bag mender, I assume these are cloth or felted bags?

best wishes
Bronwen

Richard Jones husband of Ann Edwards
b.1790 Feb 21 Condover, Shropshire, Eng.
m.1807 Jan 1 Ann Edwards Eyton upon the Weald Moors, Shropshire, Eng (reg.)
d.1880?
O:Nailer
Census
1841
1851 Richard Jones nailor living at New Street, aged 71
1861
1871
1881 census died?

Ann Edwards wife of Richard Jones mother of Emmanuel Jones
b.1789 May 31 baptism, All saints, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng.
m.1807 Jan 1 Richard Jones, Eyton upon the Weald Moors, Shropshire, Eng.(reg.)
d.
Children 3
1813 Jan 13 Emmanuel Jones, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng. (1812)
1822 Sarah Jones
1824 Emma Jones
1827 Richard Jones (nailor in 1851 census living at New St)
Census