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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: robertvillesearch on Monday 17 September 18 11:07 BST (UK)
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A house called Robertville on Harolds X Rd holds the key to my GGF's family. All the numbering on Harolds X Rd has now changed and there is a new road in Dublin called Avondale Tce (threw me off the scent for a while). In the early 1900's 321-347 Harolds X Road was called Avondale Tce and Roberville was part of that terrace. Can anyone help me to find out who may have lived there between 1900 - 1909? There are only 13 houses. Avondale Tce is listed on 1911 census but I have no way of knowing which house on the census was Robertville. Can you look up deeds anywhere online ?(I am living in Dubai). The person living in Robertville was writing to my GGF's mother in Australia who had left him in Dublin with his aunt Smyth. I have documentary proof of this. Any help or ideas would be much appreciated.
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Hi, Try this...…….
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
1901 and 1911 Census, it's free, search by Dublin and the address.
Maggsie
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Thanks Maggsie
Have been through the 1911 census with a fine toothcomb but can't identify which house is Robertville. It just give nos 1-13. I know from newspaper articles that Robertville was part of Avondale Terrace in the 1900's and I think may be nos 1-2 but cant verify. I dont know the name of the person living there so that doesnt help. But if I could find out the name then I might be able to make some progress finding my GGF mystery family....but your reply is much appreciated :)
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I see a Rose Smyth with her daughter Lucy.
She has boarders there. But this is on Arran Quay
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Avondale_Avenue/42007/
Maggsie
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Ok, I got this...SMITH
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Rathmines___Rathgar_West/Avondale_Terrace/56041/
Maggsie
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There are a lot of Smyths in Dublin! The only actual link I have is to Robertville so trying to unravel that at the moment. I know that my GGF William's father was called George Smyth and was a car owner as listed on Williams marriage certificate in 1876. Just got your new post. Gertrude Smith is Catholic and the Smyths were CoI so I am keeping an open mind on this as could be a misprint but think it unlikely. If I could be sure that no 1 was Robertville I would try to research her further. Thanks for your time and help ... :)
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Rathmines___Rathgar_West/Robert_Ville/
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Dathai
Thanks a million. Cant believe I didnt look under Robert ville in the census. I was looking in Avondale Terrace....So off to research Josephine Smyth now fingers crossed. :) :) :)
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William was C O I but his family appear to be catholic
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Wood_Quay/Longwood_Avenue/1308573/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Wood_Quay__part_of_/Longwood_Avenue/83009/
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Yes it is a long story! William was left in Dublin by his mother who called herself Dorothy Pennefather and left him with his aunt Smyth as she sailed for Australia pregnant with Williams brother in 1855. Her children by her second marriage were all brought up Methodist. I knew someone in Robertville was writing to Dorothy to tell her news of her son as I have the letter. I assumed that aunt Smyth was going to be CoI as William considered himself CoI tho he married a catholic so need to do a bit more digging. I am now building out Josephine Smyths tree and making good progress. It is interesting because William Smyth went on to become asst supertendent of the GPO (retired in 1915) but there is not one obituary for him in any newspaper. I think he was trying to hide his background.... many many thanks again. I have been battling with this for weeks and you sorted it out in a few minutes. I am very grateful and very excited to be getting close now to Dorothy's real family in Dublin..... ;)
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2 death's that dont seem to be registered when entering Longwood Avenue into address box on Glasnevin index
Jane Smyth 1906 age 50 most likely William's wife
Mary Smyth 1925 age 65 might just be coincidence
https://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/index.xml
you may have already found these
Josephine 1893 father James a Coachman
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02305/1864485.pdf
marriage 1886 James a policeman son of George
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1886/10851/5962162.pdf
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Jane Smyth husband of William died in the Isle of Man suddenly of a heart attack in 1906. I dont know who Mary Smyth is...
Yes got James as father of Josephine married to Mary nee Carroll. Also found George Smyth father of James on his marriage cert in 1886 to Mary Carroll(which fits in with William Smyths marraige certificate to Jane Fegan in 1876 so I think they were cousins). I also found aunt Smyth is Mary Smyth married to George (from James baptismal record) but records then are thin on the ground. If I could find Mary Smyth (mother of James's) maiden name I may be able to find her sister? Dorothy Pennefather ...I doubt Pennefather is Dorothy's real name. You are so kind to help me with this.. I really really appreciated you time and effort.
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As James Smyth was a policeman at Green Street Station in 1886 at time of his marriage
number 11 Green St
https://www.libraryireland.com/Dublin-Street-Directory-1862/647.php
you may find him here difficult to search
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=786784.0
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Ahhh. I was wondering why he was living at 17 Merrion Sq when his son John was born in July 1866 and then Green Street in Oct 1866 when he married. (John born out of wedlock). Green Street is very close to where my GGF William Smyth lived in Upr Dominick Street and where his wife Jane Fegan lived in Jervis Street as noted on their marriage certificate so I thought that perhaps Green St was the family home. Co incidentally one of my other GF's was an inspector in the DMP so I have been all over the DMP records before! I have a copy of the service record book which is now on the FindMyPast website so will have a look and see if I can find James there. I still cant find any of James siblings. I have tracked all his children's baptismal sponsors hoping to find a brother or sister acting as sponsor but no luck so far. However enough excitement for one day and I know this game is all about being patient and trudging on. So grateful for a helping hand though! :D
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Hmm a bit of a bogey
I think there are 2 couples by the names James Smith/Smyth and Mary Carroll
see Anne 1898 daughter of a van driver Denzille Lane
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02096/1799013.pdf
Charles Joseph 1898 son of D M P sergeant,Sandwith St his sponsor was George Smyth
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02063/1788658.pdf
his baptism notated with Bridget Doyle,Bray,10th Feb 1948 wife ?
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633507#page/101/mode/1up
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Manor_Street/1335173/
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died in the street 1905
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1905/05579/4567206.pdf
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James Smith the Coachman and Mary Carroll 1880
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1880/11050/8042095.pdf
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Strange that the priest should write Bridget Doyle,Bray 1948 on Charles Joseph's bapt as C J died 1904
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1904/05612/4578168.pdf
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I think I have them muddled up....well spotted! I will have to go back to basics.
My link is with Josephine who was living at Robertville aged 17 in 1911. I have a letter stating that someone was writing from that address.
The only Josephine who would have been about 7 in 1910 and living in Dublin is the daughter of James and Mary Carroll living in Sandwith Terrace South Dock. There are 6 children on the 1901 census but I checked the 1911 census and it states that 10 children were born on which 8 are living. I have today found two more children James 1884 and Mary Margaret 1882 born before 1886 so I think the marriage cert for James Smyth policeman is not right and the one for James Smith coachman is correct. I think Anne was born just before Kathleen and CJ is from the other couple. The marriage date of 1800 would make more sense with no children born out of wedlock. However my GGF William Smyth put his 'father' name on his birth cert as George Smyth. This was not his birth father but his 'adopted' family but the coachman has Luke as his father which blows my nice link apart......oh well.... maybe the next round of searching will throw up some Smyth siblings or a link to Dorothy Pennefather. Thanks for all the links. I have used the NLI and Glasnevin index but there are others I was not aware of so all good intelligence. Go raibh mile maith agait!!! :) :) :) No idea what Bridget Doyle Bray 1948 means unless he put it on the wrong line...
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For what its worth if you can make a connection Thomas Duffy Parsons died at 2 Robert Ville age 37 in October 1898 informant was Ethel Jameson a Niece, 26 Upr Sherrard St
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05814/4645892.pdf
may have married in Birkenhead 1885
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DY3-FN4
his widow
Barbara Jameson
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Pembroke_East___Donnybrook/_Part_of__Tritonville_Road/1286550/
he was also executor of the will of Robert Cassidy Pike in 1897
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014910/005014910_00207.pdf
Jameson Family
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Rotunda/Sherrard_St__Upper/1331914/
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Gosh you have set me thinking.... ???So good to have another head at this stage. My logic was that whoever was writing from Robertville to Australia knew my GGGF had become asst superintendent of the GPO and that happened about 1899 so I made the assumption that they were living there after 1899. The letter was written in 1945 from my GGGGM daughter to one of her nieces. She mentioned Robertville as being the last known address but no name of the correspondent. The letter also tells that my GGGF William was left with his aunt Smyth who changed his name. Once I saw the name Josephine Smyth on the 1911 census I thought that's it and once I had found the (incorrect) marriage cert for James Smyth and Mary Carroll showing George Smyth as his father I was convinced I was on the right track but that document says George Smyth was a farmer and my GGGF's marriage cert says George was a car owner so I should have been suspicious. I don't recognise any of the names mentioned in your mesage but then I don't know what Dorothy Pennefather's real name was. She certainly doest seem to exist anywhere that I can find. I have had my DNA tested on Ancestry so I may look to see if I can find any DNA links to Parsons or Jamesons (I found the Pennefather connection through DNA) . Interesting that they were CoI. I was convinced that I was looking for someone who was CoI or had a CoI marriage in their background. My logic was if you left a baby with a Catholic family in Dublin then they would bring that child up Catholic with their other children. William considered himself CoI and was married in a CoI church. Family lore has it that he was disinherited because he married a catholic. He certainly did not have any family or relatives and my grandmother was the only one of his children to marry. So we have no cousins to question and all the family papers appear to have been thrown away. I did find a family called Fehan who lived in Robertville from 1928- 1932 approx. My GGGGM died in 1909 but I dont know how long the correspondence kept up. sorry for the long message and thank you for reading and your interest in this mystery. Still I have made a start and some progress (with your valuable help) and I am determined to crack this. :) :)
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Think I got a bit carried away with my GGG's there! Should be William was my GGF and Dorothy my GGGM!!!
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Just in case anyone else is looking for Robertville in 1901 Census I have had clarification of the position and numbering with huge thanks to Jim Curtis and the Rathmines Historical Society. See below:
There are now thirty houses at the Terenure end of Harold's Cross Road, numbered 291-349, and these were originally in two separate terraces, Abercorn Terrace built around 1868, and Avondale Terrace (with bay windows) built around 1885. The small gap between these two terraces was filled-in around 1890 with two houses, called 1 and 2 Robert-ville. Initially, this locality was in the Rathmines Township, and after 1930 was controlled by Dublin Corporation, at which stage the two Robertville houses were listed as 321 and 323 Harold's Cross Road.
In the 1901 Census, this area was listed as "Harolds Cross Road (part of)", and No 1 Robertville was listed as House No 28, and No 2 Robertville was listed as House No 29. in the 1911 Census, No 1 and 2 Robertville are specifically listed.
And so it turns out my GGF William Smyth was living there in 1916. Cant believe I missed that as an option. Many thanks to all for your help particularly Dathai.... It was much appreciated.