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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Caithness => Topic started by: RobertaRTD on Thursday 20 September 18 16:38 BST (UK)
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My proven 3rd g-grandparents are John Campbell b. 1786, d. 31 Oct 1868 in Lyhaid, Latheronwheel, Caithness; and Janet Sutherland b. 1795, d. 17 Jan 1873 in Ramscraigs, Dunbeath
John's parents are William Campbell and Isabella Gow; Janet's parents are Robert Sutherland and Janet Sutherland.
Can anyone extend these lines for me--it would be so appreciated.
Roberta Dodge
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Have you checked www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for the marriages of William & Robert, if so when were they married?
Did John and Janet have any siblings that might help to establish a naming pattern for their parents parents.
In Caithness alone there are some 30 + births for William & Robert.
Colin
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Because there are so many listed, I gave up on Scotland's people. There is no way to know for certain which one is which. The main reason I have proof so far is from death certificates naming the parents. Otherwise, I can't seem to get anywhere very fast.
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Do you have any other information on John & Janet other than their death record, such as census returns, marriage or children's births?
Colin
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Roberta, is this Laidhay where the Crofting Museum is?
Skoosh.
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John Campbell b. 1786 Latheron Parish, Berriedale, Caithness, d. 31 Oct 1868 Lyhaid, Latheronwheel, Caithness, m. Janet Sutherland b. 1795, Latheron Parish, Berriedale, d. 17 Jan 1873, Ramscraigs, Dunbeath, Caithness.
1841 Census: 1841 Latheron Parish, Berriedale, Caithness, Scotland census, p. 8-9, Lower Borgue. John Campbell 45y, fisherman; Janet 46y, Janet 18y, George 15y, all b. Caithness. Also living with them is George Grant 12y, agricultural laborer, b. Caithness.
1851 Census: 1851, 38, p. 2, #5, Bualglass: John Campbell 65y, farmer of 4 acres, Janet 68y, son George 24, unm., ploughman, all b. Latheron, Caithness.
Children:
Isabella Campbell b. 25 Dec 1814, Latheron Parish, d. 6 Sep 1900, Ramscraigs; m. 18 Jan 1836, Latheron Parish, to John Murray, b. 13 Apr 1809, Kildonan, Sutherlandshire, d. 1875. 1851, 1861, 1871 censuses.
Janet Campbell b. 28 Jan 1820, Latheron Parish, d. 9 Dec 1901, Borgue, Berriedale, m. 2 Jan 1846 to Robert Gunn b. c. Feb 1813, Caithness-shire, d. 15 Oct 1897 Borgue, Berriedale.
1851, 1871, 1881 censuses.
George Campbell (my 2nd g-grandfather) bp. 5 Dec 1823, Latheron Parish, Berriedale, d. 2 Jul 1889, Berriedale, m. 26 Dec 1851 to Catharine Bain bp. 29 Nov 1822 Latheron Parish, Berriedale, d. 29 Jun 1900 Berriedale
1861, 1871, 1881 censuses.
John Campbell's death certificate:
Parish of Latheron in the County of Caithness, Scotland, p. 29.
John Campbell, pauper (formerly a crofter & fisherman), m. to Janet Sutherland; d. 1868, October Thirty-First, 5h 30 min P.M., Lyhaid, Latheronwheel. Male, aged 82 years
Father: William Campbell, farmer (deceased)
Mother: Isabella Campbell; maiden surname Gow (deceased)
Cause of death: Asthma, 2 years, no regular medical attendant.
Informant: Robert Campbell, brother, present.
Registered: 2 Nov 1868 at Latheron, Alex. Gunn, Registrar
Janet Sutherland's death record: Parish of Latheron in the County of Caithness, Scotland, p. 3.
Janet Campbell, pauper (widow of John Campbell, crofter & fisherman).
Died 7 Jan 1873, 1h. 0 min, A.M., Ramsanaigs, Dunbeath, aged 94 years.
Father: Robert Sutherland, crofter & fisherman (deceased).
Mother: Janet Sutherland, maiden name Sutherland (deceased).
Cause of death: Debility from old age.
Informant: John Murray, son-in-law, present, Alex. Gunn, witness, Registrar.
Registered: 14 Jan 1873 at Latheron, Alex. Gunn, Registrar.
The 1871 Census for Latheron Parish:
1871 Scotland Census, Latheron Parish, ED: 17; Line: 2, Page: 16, HH #90.
Very large household with occupants listed alphabetically. No Campbells. Includes: John Murray 63y, Isabela Murray 55y, Thomas 25y, Betsey 22y, Robert 18y, Isabella 16y, & James 13y. [This family of Murrays contains Isabela and her family which are Janet's daughter, son-in-law and grandchildren.] 29 Sutherlands including Catherine 94y and Janet 93y.
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Latherton Old Parish Records on SP
Births 1740 - 1854 Marriages 1755 - 1854 Deaths 0
An interesting baptism on Freereg for William Campbell 11 Apr 1767 father John abode Berrydale. The record is also on SP same date. However he would only be 16 if the birth below is correct?
Also for Isabell Gow 21 Jan 1761 father Kenneth abode ?? Sohachurn, Latherton, on SP but only the year,
Sadly no marriage record for the above.
Several possible births at Latherton on Freereg for Robert & Janet but no marriage.
Most likely record for John on SP. This may be a birth date for there is a baptism on Freereg 6 Nov 1783 the abode is noted as Plontich, Latherton.
CAMPBELL JOHN WILLIAM CAMPBELL 12/02/1783 Latheron
No record for Janet in the county or elswhere, age at death varies greatly from census so I checked a wide period. No marriage record for John & Janet.
Hope some of this helps.
Colin
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PS: I wonder if this could be the marriage of Robert & Janet (Janet, Jean, Jane is possible)
SUTHERLAND ROBERT JEAN SUTHD./ 08/02/1784 Latheron
Colin
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Thanks for your response. You can see why I gave up on Scotland's People.
I just realized that I have children for Robert and Janet Sutherland: Robert Sutherland b. c. 1792 d. 6 Nov 1858, Westerdale, Caithness, m. Elizabeth McKenzie; and Catherine b. c. 1811 who was on the 1871 census with Janet.
There is possibly another clue. John Campbell and Janet Sutherland's daughter Janet m. Robert Gunn in 1846 as stated in my last posting. Robert Gunn's parents were John Gunn b. 1788, d. 16 Sep 1861 and Henrietta Sutherland b. 1794, d. 8 Apr 1878, both d. in Ramscraigs, Dunbeath, the same place that Janet Sutherland d. in 1873. Are Janet and Henrietta somehow related?
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There are 3 possible birth records in Latherton on SP for Robert Sutherland born around 1792 father Robert, mother not named. Although the is no Janet there are two unnamed records father Robert 1789 & 1793 and a lot of named children only father Robert noted.
Birth
SUTHERLAND HENERITA JOHN SUTHERLAND/ 06/09/1795 Latheron
Marriage
SUTHERLAND HENERITA JOHN GUNN/ 21/05/1812 Latheron
By strange coincidence there is a record on A…..y which shows an Henrietta Sutherland death age 84 in 1878, her father was William McKay, the entry below is Henrietta Gunn widow of John, father John Sutherland a Chelsea Pensioner Deceased.
Colin
PS: Remember death/.census records are not always accurate.
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I found another site that also showed Robert Gunn as son of John Gunn 11 Jan 1787, Latheron Parish-16 Sep 1861 Ramscraigs, Dunbeath, and Henrietta Sutherland. It showed John's parents as William Gunn 1754-1791 and Margaret Sutherland m. 15 Jan 1769 in Latheron parish.
It also showed Henrietta's parents as John Sutherland and Ann Sutherland m. 6 June 1785.
However, none of these showed a Janet Sutherland m. to Robert Sutherland, parents of my Janet Sutherland, among the list of their children.
I am amazed at how many Sutherlands married each other. No wonder searching is so difficult.
I guess the best thing to do is try to find death certificates for Robert Sutherland and Janet Sutherland, knowing they both died before Janet' death in 1873; and John Campbell's parents, William Campbell and Isabella Gow, both deceased before John's death in 1868.
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The information on Henrietta Gunn nee Sutherland 1794, was from an SP death record attached to an A…y file.
Regarding Robert & Janet Sutherland.
I guess from your notes this is the family in 1851?
Town of Houstry in the Parish of Latherton, Caithness. Abode Payingag
Farmer Of 6 Arces
Robt Sutherland 80
Janet Sutherland 67
Cathine Sutherland 40
Grandchildren.
Alexr Sutherland 16
Robt Sutherland 14
Ann Sutherland 12
George Sutherland 5
Ellen Sutherland 3
Janet is also noted as 67 on the SP census, therefore could have been born around 1784 and Robert about 1771. depending which is correct this census or the death record.
So it is possible that they died after 1855 when Statutory Registration began.
For Janet there are a number of deaths after 1861.
There are two possible deaths for Robert indicating he was born 1777, so that narrows down the births between 1771 & 1777 to 3, my guess he was born 1771 father Robert as that was the name of their eldest son.
SUTHERLAND ROBERT 82 MCKENZIE 1859 Latheron
SUTHERLAND ROBERT 83 SUTHERLAND 1860 Latheron
Colin
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That census will not work for Janet's parents, Robert Sutherland and Janet Sutherland. Janet, wife of John Campbell, shows as aged 94 at death in Jan 1873 in her death certificate making her birth date 1778.
The Robert Sutherland in that 1851 census shows as 80 years of age, making his birth year about 1771.
On Janet's death certificate, it shows her deceased father, Robert Sutherland as a crofter and fisherman, same as her husband, John Campbell. Her son-in-law John Murray was present.
On John Campbell's death certificate, his brother Robert Campbell was present.
Another item I found: Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 shows Isobell Gow chr. Jan 1761, Latheron, Caithness, Scotland, dau. of Kenneth Gow.
I am attaching the 1871 census that needs looking at.
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It would not accept the attachment, so go to this site:
https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=1871Scotland&indiv=try&h=1285706
If you click on each person, it will show the relationship to the mother, Catherine Sutherland. Otherwise, I have spelled it out in an attachment that already shows the relationship.
Why won't it accept the attachment of 13 KB when the limit is 500 KB? I will change it so it is more readable. Still didn't work.
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Luckily I am a member of Ancestry so I was able to open your link.
Good Luck with your research.
Colin
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Can you tell me more about the Dunbeath estate. That 1871 census involves a lot of people and I am having trouble figuring out who belongs to whom. Especially since so many show Catherine Sutherland as their mother!
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http://portal.historicenvironment.scot/designation/GDL00150
Colin
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Yes, I thought it was part of the castle. I am pretty sure they were all employees at the time. Looks like the Sinclairs were the owners at that time.
Any chance you looked at that 1871 census? It shows Catherine Sutherland, 94y as the mother and there are 40 in the list that show Catherine as their mother, some as young as 3 years of age. I am assuming they are children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. I would love to find out who was her husband and who are her children.
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I did look at the 1871 census and found it very confusing. Each family is a separate schedule number so it looks like Ancestry has lumped all the crofts on one page which is unusual. If you see the original census on SP I guess you will find Catherine is on her own. Janet is noted as mother in Law to John & Isabella Murray & family.
Colin
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Well, thanks for all your help. You can see that this is an impossible task and someday a reliable source will pop up giving me the information I need. Irish records are even worse!