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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: WillowG on Friday 21 September 18 18:28 BST (UK)
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In our search through Aylmer will we have now reached the one of Thomas Aylmer of 1500 :)
It is my hope that it may throw some light as to how the following are related:
Edmund Aylmer and his wife Elizabeth Tyrrell, parents of Frances (d. 1540) and Anne.
We have Thomas and Robert Aylmer, gentlemen, sons of ? Aylmer and his wife Elizabeth de Wood, sister of John at Wood, whose widow was Margaret.
Robert Aylmer's son Alexander married Anne. Alexander was the father of William, Frances - who married Christopher Thetford, Bridget - who married Stephen Rookwood, Elizabeth, Honour, Ursula and Mary.
Frances Aylmer the Elder mentions the child Frances Aylmer the Younger in her will of 1540 and refers to her as 'cousin'.
There is great overlap in the social circles of Frances Aylmer the Elder and Bishop John Aylmer, the tutor of Lady Jane Grey.
Edmund Aylmer, Roger Aylmer and Thomas Aylmer are mentioned together in about 1486 - Brothers?
'Plaintiffs: Edmund Aylmer, esquire. Defendants: William Paston. Subject: Detention of bonds between Roger and Thomas Aylmer and complainant of the one party, and Harry Straunge, Thomas Drury, and John Sharnburgh, of the other.'
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7452975
Laurence Ailmer, John Ailmer and Thomas Ailmer are mentioned together in 1488 - Brothers?
'1488 [...] 4 Henry VII County of Essex [...] 33. Mich. Laurence Ailmer, John Ailmer, Thomas Ailmer, John Barley, Robert Godewyn and William Hampton, pl. Richard Pake and Elizabeth his wife, def. 1 messuage, 24 acres of land, 3 acres of meadow and 18d. rent in Eisonham. Def. quitclaimed to pl. and the heirs of Laurence. Warranty as in 10. Cons. 201.'
http://esah1852.org.uk/images/pdf/ffines/F1400000.pdf
We know that Sir Laurence Aylmer's father was Thomas Aylmer of Ellesnam/Allesham/Elsham in Essex, and that Sir Laurence also had a brother named Thomas Aylmer, gentleman.
Could the John Ailmer mentioned above be brother of Sir Laurence and Thomas Aylmer, gentleman?
Could we here have the father (or grandfather?) of Bishop John Aylmer, whose father is said to have been called John?
Could Sir Laurence's brother Thomas Aylmer have married Elizabeth de Wood and the brothers Robert and Thomas have been their children?
I am hoping that this will might give the answer to some of the questions above :)
The full will can be found here:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39Z-49JP-Z?i=363&cat=278818
Thank you so much in advance! :) :) :)
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Snippet #1
In the Name of god Amen I Thom(a)s Ayleme(r)
of Norwich Grocer the xiiij day of ye moneth of August
In the yer(e) of o(ur) lord god a ml and CCCCC in my good and
hole mynde god be lawdyd at Norwich forsaid make
my testame(n)t in this wyse ffirst I co(m)mend my soule to
god allmyghty our Lady seint mary and all seintes and
my body to be buryed in the church of seint Andrew in
norwich by my kynred It(e)m to the rep(ar)ac(i)on of the said...
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Snippet #2
...church of seint Andrewe forsaid and for brekyng of the
grownd xls It(e)m to the heygh auter of the same churche
iij s iiijd It(e)m to the heygh auter of the church of seint
petyr of mancroft in Norwich iijs iiijd It(e)m to the rep(ar)ac(i)on
of the same chuch xx s It(e)m to iche of the iiij orderes of freres
in Norwich vjs viijd It(e)m to the holy Trinite of the
Cathedrall church of the holy trinite in Norwich iijs
iiijd It(e)m to Iche Anker and Ankeres of Norwich xij d
It(e)m to ev(er)y Suster of Normans hospitall in Norwich
iijd It(e)m to ev(er)y Sykeman and woman at iche of the...
heygh auter = high altar
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Thank you so much, HD! :) :D :) Wonderful work, as always!!! :) :) :) Especially this one, I can barely make out a word!
to be buryed in the church of seint Andrew in norwich by my kynred
That is lovely ❤️
Snippet #2
...church of seint Andrewe forsaid and for brekyng of the
grownd xls It(e)m to the heygh auter of the same churche
iij s iiijd It(e)m to the heygh auter of the church of seint
petyr of mancroft in Norwich iijs iiijd It(e)m to the rep(ar)ac(i)on
of the same chuch xx s It(e)m to iche of the iiij orderes of freres
in Norwich vjs viijd It(e)m to the holy Trinite of the
Cathedrall church of the holy trinite in Norwich iijs
iiijd It(e)m to Iche Anker and Ankeres of Norwich xij d
It(e)m to ev(er)y Suster of Normans hospitall in Norwich
iijd It(e)m to ev(er)y Sykeman and woman at iche of the...
heygh auter = high altar
Again these incredibly impressive charitable donations! When you see what people actually had to leave behind (not much) it becomes more impressive still.
And there we have our old friends the anchorites and anchoresses again :) The family was clearly big fans!
St Peter Mancroft - St Peter Mancroft is a parish church in the Church of England, in the centre of Norwich, Norfolk. After the two cathedrals, it is the largest church in Norwich and was built between 1430 and 1455.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Peter_Mancroft
From another source - Located in the market place in the heart of the medieval city of Norwich, St Peter Mancroft is the largest of the city's 31 (!!!!!!!!!) surviving medieval parish churches
https://www.stpetermancroft.org.uk/page/25/history
Thank you so much again, HD!!! :) :D :) I really love pre-reformatory wills!
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Snippet 3
v yates* in Norwich ijd It(e)m I Will have a trentall**
to be Sunge for my soule and my ffrend(es) soules upon a
Day w(i)t(h) in a Senyte*** aft(er) my berying xs It(e)m I Will have
an honest secular prest to syng and pray for my soule
and all my ffrend(es) in the church of seint Andrewe forsaid
by the space of iiij yer(e) It(e)m I gefe to John Aylemer my nevy****
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* 5 gates
** a series of 30 requiem masses
*** within seven nights
**** nephew
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Snippet 4
the seke mens houses with the gret close therto p(er)tey(-)
nyng at west Wyk gate to hold to the said John his
heir(es) and his assignes for ev(er) more whan he com(m)yth
to thage of xxj yer(e) It(e)m I bequeth to iche of ye p(ri)soner(es)
in the Castall and in ye yelde hall* of Norwich jd
It(e)m I Will that my close lying at the gates of west Wyk
adioynyng nexte the grounde of Nicholas Appilyard
esquier and my Land with ought seint Gyles yates** be
sold be myn executo(u)rs and the money y(er)of*** cum(m)yng be
disposid in p(er)formannce of this my testament and last
=====
* Guildhall (?)
** without St Giles’ gates (?)
*** thereof
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John Aylemer my nevy
!!!!!!!!!
And there we have a John Aylmer :) :D :)
Thank you so much, Bookbox!!!!!!!!! This is wonderful! :) :) :)
Snippet 3
v yates* in Norwich ijd It(e)m I Will have a trentall**
to be Sunge for my soule and my ffrend(es) soules upon a
Day w(i)t(h) in a Senyte*** aft(er) my berying xs It(e)m I Will have
an honest secular prest to syng and pray for my soule
and all my ffrend(es) in the church of seint Andrewe forsaid
by the space of iiij yer(e) It(e)m I gefe to John Aylemer my nevy****
=====
* 5 gates
** a series of 30 requiem masses
*** within seven nights
**** nephew
I loved this entire part. The requiem masses! So beautiful.
They were very concerned with honest (!) priests, weren't they?
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Snippet 4
the seke mens houses with the gret close therto p(er)tey(-)
nyng at west Wyk gate to hold to the said John his
heir(es) and his assignes for ev(er) more whan he com(m)yth
to thage of xxj yer(e) It(e)m I bequeth to iche of ye p(ri)soner(es)
in the Castall and in ye yelde hall* of Norwich jd
It(e)m I Will that my close lying at the gates of west Wyk
adioynyng nexte the grounde of Nicholas Appilyard
esquier and my Land with ought seint Gyles yates** be
sold be myn executo(u)rs and the money y(er)of*** cum(m)yng be
disposid in p(er)formannce of this my testament and last
=====
* Guildhall (?)
** without St Giles’ gates (?)
*** thereof
Nicholas Appilyard - What a lovely name! :)
I think 'his land outside of the gates of St. Giles' must be exactly the right interpretation. It makes a lot of sense!
Thank you so much again, Bookbox!!! :) :D :) This has been a lovely will so far! And we found John Aylmer!!!
Well, a John Aylmer, anyway :) But it does fit very well so far that he at the very least is the same one as the one from 1488.
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Snippet #5:
...will It(e)m to Iche of the Nu(n)nys of [Carhows?] by nor
wich xiijd It(e)m I bequeth to margaret knyve wydowe
my Cosyn vj s viijd It(e)m I bequeth to Thomas Alman of
leystoft my Cosyn xiij s iiijd And to Edmu(n)d Alman of
leystoft forsaid other xiijs iiij d It(e)m I bequeth to Thom(a)s
Groos my godson xx s whan he co(m)myth to thage of xvj
yer(es) It(em) to Joh Joone Groos sist(er) to the said Thom(a)s Groos
vj s viijd at her maryage or at the age of xvj yer(es) It(e)m
to dame [magaret?] parker of leystoft myn(e) awnte xx s
It(e)m I bequeth to John Alman of Jermuthe xiij s iiij d...
Notes:
Carhow? - last letter unclear
dame ma?aret parker - middle letter or letters unclear
Jer?the - middle letters unclear
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Snippet #6:
...It(e)m to John Alman the yong(er) vj s viijd It(e)m to Cristofer
Alman his Brodyr vjs viijd It(e)m to margaret Alman
Syster to the said John and Cristofyr vjs It(e)m to Joone
Alman vjs viijd It(e)m to Roberd Alman of Norwich
Goldsmyth xs And to Iche of his children xijd It(e)m to
the wyfe of Richard p(ar)trych of Norwich Grocer xiij s
iiijd It(e)m to James moor of london vj s viijd [It(em)?] his
Brother Robert vj s viijd to Thom(a)s moor of Skottowe
vjs viijd to will(ia)m moor vjs viijd It(e)m I gyf to ev(er)y por
man Bedred and Blynd man and woman in Norwich...
CORRECTION:
I now think Thom(a)s moor is of Skottowe. Amended above.
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Re. snippet 5. As possibilities:
1 Carhow = Carrow Priory is place of nunnery (Carrow where the Canaries sing?), and Carrow Road is where the Canaries (Norwich City FC) play their home matches.
2 Lestoft = Lowestoft. I have seen plenty of spelling variations. And my friend calls is Lowstof.
3 jer..th.. *** perhaps this is Yarmouth. There are plenty of Almans in both Lowestoft and Yarmouth (plus other places) around 1500.
Just thoughts.
francoso
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https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/norf/vol2/pp351-354
Houses of Benedictine nuns: The priory of Carrow.
Just for info/background:
Quote
"There was also given to the anchoress of Carrow 40d.
¶This anchoress was a woman of great celebrity, whose religious 'revelations' have been several times published. Though never canonized, she was usually known as Saint Juliana of Norwich. She was termed indifferently the anchoress of Carrow and the anchoress of St. Julian, because her ankerhold was in the churchyard of St. Julian-, Norwich, a church appropriated to the priory. Very possibly she had been a nun of Carrow in her youth."
regards
francoso
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Re. snippet 5. As possibilities:
1 Carhow = Carrow Priory is place of nunnery (Carrow where the Canaries sing?), and Carrow Road is where the Canaries (Norwich City FC) play their home matches.
2 Lestoft = Lowestoft. I have seen plenty of spelling variations. And my friend calls is Lowstof.
3 jer..th.. *** perhaps this is Yarmouth. There are plenty of Almans in both Lowestoft and Yarmouth (plus other places) around 1500.
Just thoughts.
francoso
I'm pretty sure you are right, francoso.
Therefore, I have removed the uncertainty from Jermuthe in the text.
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Re. snippet 5. As possibilities:
1 Carhow = Carrow Priory is place of nunnery
Agreed. In any case, we've already had Carrow in an earlier Aylmer will.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=799398.msg6568616#msg6568616
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I agree with everyone about Carrow.
Thank you so much!!! :) :D :)
Dame Margaret Parker of Leystoft/Lowestoft - This must be the Margaret Parker that John Strype seems to think is the grandmother of Matthew Parker, Queen Elizabeth's first Archbishop of Canterbury :)
https://archive.org/stream/historicalcollec00stryuoft#page/n149
Matthew Parker (6 August 1504 – 17 May 1575) was Archbishop of Canterbury from 1559 until his death in 1575. He was born in Norwich, in St Saviour's parish, as the eldest son of William Parker and Alice Monins. She may have been related by marriage to Thomas Cranmer, Archbishop of Canterbury during the reigns of Henry VIII, Edward VI and - for a short time - Mary I.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Parker
John Strype also speaks of the possibility of John Aylmer, Bishop of London, and Matthew Parker, Archbishop of Canterbury, being kindred in his biography The Life and Acts of Matthew Parker, the First Archbishop of Canterbury in the Reign of Queen Elizabeth (https://books.google.no/books?id=Dr8NAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=Matthew+Parker+Aylmer&source=bl&ots=T9_ZtUEblO&sig=9v30ZMf4Oqi9I-O0GiMDV221QNo&hl=no&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjtz_jO-NDdAhXQs4sKHanoADIQ6AEwA3oECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=Matthew%20Parker%20Aylmer&f=false).
I really wish we were researching the Alman family, now, lololol :) ;D :)
And I really wish I knew if Margaret Parker was an Aylmer! :) :) :)
Thank you so much again!!! This is really fascinating.
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Snippet #7:
...Jd It(e)m to iche p(re)st being at my derige and at my berying
iiijd and to ev(er)y clerk ijd and ev(er)y pore man woman and
Childe that come to my deryge [ob?] to the su(m)me of v.li
It(e)m I will have ev(er)y yer(e) a masse and a deryge to be
sunge for me and my ffrendes by the space of vj yer(es)
It(e)m I will have a man to goo for me to our blessed
Lady of walsyngh(a)m on pilgrymage Barfoot* and he...
The amount in line 3 has me stumped for the moment.
* Barfoot - easy for him to say.
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deryge [?]
From Dirige – first word of the Office of the Dead (Dirige, Domine, Deus meus ... viam meam – Direct my path ... O Lord my God). Hence the English ‘dirge’.
* Barfoot - easy for him to say.
;D
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Thanks Bookbox, but my problem wasn't with deryge itself but with the amount to be paid to those poor men women and children who attended.
Looks like ob?
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So sorry, HD, I overlooked the space before [?].
The mystery word looks like ob. I wonder if the sense is ... up to the su(m)me of v.li (= an expenditure ceiling of 5 pounds?). Just a guess.
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Thanks - I also read it as a ceiling of 5 pounds.
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Snippet #8 (#7 repeats #6)
You are of course entirely correct. How curious! So dreadfully sorry. I have now amended my post.
Thank you so much, HD and Bookbox! :) :D :)
Your back-and-forth was very fascinating! :)
deryge [?]
From Dirige – first word of the Office of the Dead (Dirige, Domine, Deus meus ... viam meam – Direct my path ... O Lord my God). Hence the English ‘dirge’.
I do so love these pre-reformatory wills. With their dirges and requiems :) Sometimes I think a little something was lost ...
* Barfoot - easy for him to say.
;D
;D ;D ;D
Alright, I might have had to opt out of the barefoot pre-reformatory pilgrimages. *coughs* *g*
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Snippet #8:
...for to have for his Labo(ur) iijs iiijd Item I will have a
man to go on pilgrymage for me to seint Antony of
Caumbirston in Suxsex and I will that he hath ev(er)y
day for his Labo(ur) and his costes xijd It(e)m I bequeth to
Thom(a)s Sewall drap(er) vjs viijd It(e)m I will have an
other Trentall to be sunge for me and my ffrendes upon
a day in the Blake ffreres of norwich and they to have
x s It(e)m to Iche s(er)v(a)nt and Childe in my Brotheres house
xld It(e)m to Kat(er)ine Collys s(er)vant w(i)t(h) mastre Osbern
vjs viijd It(e)m to Joone [Bro(w)nn?] in the same place xld...
The place associated with seint Antony has 5 minims in the middle. I'm not sure how to interpret them.
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The place associated with seint Antony has 5 minims in the middle. I'm not sure how to interpret them.
Me neither, but I found somewhere an online reference to the shrine of St Anthony of Cambirston, which is said to be Camber in Sussex, but now can't find it again.
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Me neither, but I found somewhere an online reference to the shrine of St Anthony of Cambirston, which is said to be Camber in Sussex, but now can't find it again.
Thanks - that would give us Caumbirston, which is quite acceptable.
Is that related to Crawley, which was the only shrine to St Anthony in Sussex which I could find?
ADDED:
Sorry, dumb question - miles away.
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Me neither, but I found somewhere an online reference to the shrine of St Anthony of Cambirston, which is said to be Camber in Sussex, but now can't find it again.
Thanks - that would give us Caumbirston, which is quite acceptable.
A reference here to Cambirston/Camber in 1490 ...
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=zeKoCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=cambirston+camber&source=bl&ots=Su4a0xCWB5&sig=8X2cPnI74Viuyp1Z_-VSVq1ka2k&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjoxc2U0dHdAhWLC8AKHQixDuUQ6AEwAHoECAAQAQ#v=onepage&q=cambirston%20camber&f=false
Also, in Norman P. Tanner, The Church in Late Medieval Norwich, 1370-1532 (1984), referring to numerous small shrines popular with Norwich testators, including ‘St Anthony of Camber in Sussex’ (p. 86).
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Excellent, thank you. I shall update my text with Caumbirston.
ADDED:
Willow, I have also changed the label on the first Snippet #8 to Snippet #7 and added the [ob?].
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Thank you so much HD and and Bookbox!!! :) :D :) This was wonderful!
So fascinating about St. Anthony of Caumbirston!
And all those pilgrimages! How many sins had this guy committed? *g*
Of course, we are all sinners 😇 ;D 😇 *coughs*
Snippet #8:
It(e)m to Iche s(er)v(a)nt and Childe in my Brotheres house xld
... This is the first mentions of this brother, right? *sigh* These people ... :-\ Honestly.
The place associated with seint Antony has 5 minims in the middle. I'm not sure how to interpret them.
Excellent, thank you. I shall update my text with Caumbirston.
ADDED:
Willow, I have also changed the label on the first Snippet #8 to Snippet #7 and added the [ob?].
Excellent, HD! :) :) :) I still have no idea how I managed that ... ::)
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Re reply #23:
The Franciscan Friary of St Anthony of Padua at Camber Sands near Rye, East Sussex.
francoso
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Thanks francoso.
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Snippet #9:
...It(e)m to Thom(a)s p(ar)trych vjs viijd The Resydue of all
my goodes I co(m)mitte in to the handes and disposic(i)on of
myn(e) executo(u)res in dedes of Pete and mercy to the most
plesur of god and p(ro)fite to my soule whome I make
and ordeyne Executours of this my testament and
Last will my mother Elizabeth Thursby my Broder
Richard Aylemer Geffrey Styward Grocer and Richard...
Pete = could mean either Piety or Pity
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Snippet #10:
...partrych and I bequeth to Iche of my said executeres for
ther(e) Labor(e) iiij [m(a)r(kes)?] yoven und(er) my seall day yer(e) and
Place a bove wretyn And I make and ordene sup(er)vyso(ur)
of this my testament and Last will Elizabeth Osbern
wedowe and I geve to the same Elizabeth for his [sic] labo(ur)
xx s
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Hi Willow: Norfolk Record Office:
NROCAT: NCC Will register Gylys 97
1518 Elizabeth Thursby, late husband Robert Aylmer, widow.
From Will of Thomas Aylmer 1500 - Elizabeth Thursby his mother.
So Robert Aylmer married Elizabeth Thursby and they had a son Thomas Aylmer. You may have this already but if not ....
francoso
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Thank you so much, HD, this is brilliant work!!! :) :D :) I am so deeply grateful for this!
Thanks francoso.
*******************************************************************************
Snippet #9:
...It(e)m to Thom(a)s p(ar)trych vjs viijd The Resydue of all
my goodes I co(m)mitte in to the handes and disposic(i)on of
myn(e) executo(u)res in dedes of Pete and mercy to the most
plesur of god and p(ro)fite to my soule whome I make
and ordeyne Executours of this my testament and
Last will my mother Elizabeth Thursby my Broder
Richard Aylemer Geffrey Styward Grocer and Richard...
Pete = could mean either Piety or Pity
!!!!!!!!!!
I think I know who Thomas is, as we have encountered him before!!! :)
More precisely in the will of his father here:
Will of Robert Aylmer 1493
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=799398.0
Robert Aylmer (d.1493), Grocer, Sheriff of Norwich in 1471, Alderman of Norwich in 1480, Mayor of Norwich in 1481 and 1492. He was married to Elizabeth, and had two sons, Richard (d.1512) and Thomas, and two daughters - Cecile and Elizabeth (d. 15th of September 1493). After his death his widow Elizabeth was involved in a suit with Sir William Knyvett - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_William_Knyvett.
Hi Willow: Norfolk Record Office:
NROCAT: NCC Will register Gylys 97
1518 Elizabeth Thursby, late husband Robert Aylmer, widow.
From Will of Thomas Aylmer 1500 - Elizabeth Thursby his mother.
So Robert Aylmer married Elizabeth Thursby and they had a son Thomas Aylmer. You may have this already but if not ....
francoso
At some point after this suit, Robert Aylmer's widow Elizabeth remarries, to a Thomas Thursby!
I think there can be little doubt that our testator, this Thomas Aylmer, is the Thomas Aylmer from Robert Aylmer's will of 1493 :)
Robert Aylmer's son, Richard Aylmer (d.1512), Grocer, Sheriff of Norwich in 1501, Mayor in 1511. Married firstly to Joan, and had by her two sons and two daughters. After Joan's death he remarries again to an unknown second wife and has by her four daughters.
However, Thomas Aylmer's nephew John is an entirely new twig on this branch :)
The interesting thing is that he is therefore almost certainly not the same John Aylmer as the one mentioned in the document from 1488.
That means we have two John Aylmers were we previously had none in the right age to be Bishop John Aylmer's Father!
Furthermore, thanks to francoso in the other thread, http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=800382.54, we have this incredibly useful bit of information:
Norfolk and Norwich Archaeological Society Collection
NNAS G1-2 (originally Bookcase G, lockers 1-2)
Deeds relating to property in Mendham and Harleston
CatalogueRef: NNAS G2/1/3
Title Grant, Thomas Mene of Harleston, John Sayer of Pulham St Mary, William Mene of Weybread, and John Gerrard of Harleston, to Alan Fuller of Harleston, Margaret his wife, William and Thomas their sons, and John Aylmer of Pulham St Mary: property as in last
Date: 17 Apr 1520
Repository Norfolk Record Office
http://nrocat.norfolk.gov.uk/DServe/DServe.exe?dsqServer=NCC3CL01&dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=Show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=93&dsqSearch=%28%28text%29%3D%27Aylmer%27%29
Again, according to francoso in the other thread, Pulham St Mary is just the other side of the A140 at Tivetshall.
Tivetshall St. Margaret is traditionally where Bishop John Aylmer is said to have been born in 1521 :)
Thank you so much again! This is splendid!!! :) :D :)
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Probatu(m) fuit p(re)scriptum test(amentu)m In Capella s(an)c(t)i leonardi
p(ro)pe Norwicu(m) xj die mens(is) decembr(is) Anno d(omi)ni
mill(esi)mo Quingentesimo Cora(m) M(agistro) Rogero Church &c
off(icia)li &c Et com(m)issa fuit adm(in)istrac(i)o Ric(ard)o Aylemer(e) execu(tori)
in d(i)c(t)o test(ament)o no(m)i(n)at(o) [...?] d(i)c(t)i def(uncti) h(ab)ent(is) du(m) vix(i)t & mort(is)
sue tempore bona in div(er)s(is) dioc(esibus) Cant(uariensis) p(ro)vi(n)c(ie) in for(ma) iur(is)
Jurat(o) Res(erva)ta p(o)t(est)ate si(mi)lem com(m)issione(m) faciend(i) alijs co(e)xec(utoribus)
in h(uius)mo(d)i test(ament)o no(m)i(n)at(is) cu(m) ven(er)int in for(ma) Jur(is) admiss(uri)
In cui(us) rei testi(m)o(n)iu(m) &c Dat(um) &c
The aforewritten will was proved in St Leonard’s Chapel near Norwich on the 11th day of the month of December in the year of the Lord one thousand five hundred before Master Roger Church etc., official etc., and administration was granted to Richard Aylemer, the executor named in the said will [...?] of the said deceased, who whilst he lived and at the time of his death held goods in diverse dioceses of the Province of Canterbury; sworn in form of law; power reserved of making the like grant to the other co-executors named in this will when they shall come to be admitted in form of law. In witness of which etc., dated etc.
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"Excursions in the County of Norfolk" by Thomas Kitson Cromwell.
p.11: the first stone of Norwich cathedral was laid by Bishop Herbert commonly know as Herbert de Losinga in 1096.
p.12: the justly celebrated pile was not completed until the year 1430, under the Presidency of Bishop Aylmer, 346 years after its commencement.
So there was another Bishop Aylmer besides John Aylmer (1521-1594)) of Aylmer Hall, Tivetshall St Margaret, Bishop of London.
You probably know this already but I didn't.
And Aylmer seems to go back at least to Ailmaric de Berriles or Beziles who was granted Beziles, or Boylands Manor in 1272. Sir Aylmer or Ailmaric, died in 1279. Boyland's manor (the one in question as there are 3 in Norfolk) is in Morningthorpe, which is about 2 km east of Long Stratton.
francoso
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Willow: just a few specifics.
1. https://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol4
City of Norwich, chapter 42: The Great Ward of Mancroft, St. Peter of Mancroft
(69) St. Peter of Mancroft.
The following inscriptions are in the nave; and first of those on brass plates, beginning at the most eastern part, just by the step out of the chancel, lies a large stone, having the effigies of a mayor in his robes, between his two wives; by the first wife are the effigies of her children, two boys and two girls; and by the second four girls; it being placed here in memory of Richard Aylmer, mayor in 1511, son of Robert Aylmer, who was mayor in 1481, and 1492, and Joan his first wife; he died in 1512. This inscription is printed in Weever's Funeral Monuments, fo. 802, as imperfect, though it is legible at this day:
Aylmer Ricardus Procerum de stipite natus, Is quondam Maior Urbis, iacet hic tumulatus, Hatis cum prima atque suis Consorte Johanna, Moribus ornatus, Bonus omnibus atque benignus, Anno Milleno, D, bind, cum duodeno, Jous semtembris trino, migrabit ob orbe. O bone Christe Thesu, fons bite, spes, Medicina, Votis inclina, te quesumus aure Benigna, Ut sibi sit Requies, bibat terum sine fine.
2. Notices of the merchants' marks in the city of Norwich. Ewing, William Creasy. p.11
p.11, 8.-1494. Richard Aylmer, Grocer. (?)
p.17, 7.-1493. Robert Aylmer, Mayor in 1481 and 1492. This mark, with his initials, is in several of the South windows in the clerestory. His gravestone, dated 1493, lies under the font.
p.43, 16.-1506. Richard Aylmer, Grocer, Mayor in 1511. He was buried at the East end of the nave in 1512. On a seal to a deed dated 1506.
3. A Compleat History of the Famous City of Norwich, from the Earliest ...
p.13, 1482 William Aylmer, Mayor; 1492 Richard Aylmer, Mayor; 1511 Richard Aylmer, Mayor; 1471 Robert Aylmer, Sherriff; 1501 Richard Aylmer, Sherriff;
p.14, 1536 Thomas Thetford, Sherriff.
4. A Daring Dynasty, Conflict and Control in Early-Tudor England by Mark R. Horowitz
p. 129/130 and footnote 101.
francoso
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Probatu(m) fuit p(re)scriptum test(amentu)m In Capella s(an)c(t)i leonardi
p(ro)pe Norwicu(m) xj die mens(is) decembr(is) Anno d(omi)ni
mill(esi)mo Quingentesimo Cora(m) M(agistro) Rogero Church &c
off(icia)li &c Et com(m)issa fuit adm(in)istrac(i)o Ric(ard)o Aylemer(e) execu(tori)
in d(i)c(t)o test(ament)o no(m)i(n)at(o) [...?] d(i)c(t)i def(uncti) h(ab)ent(is) du(m) vix(i)t & mort(is)
sue tempore bona in div(er)s(is) dioc(esibus) Cant(uariensis) p(ro)vi(n)c(ie) in for(ma) iur(is)
Jurat(o) Res(erva)ta p(o)t(est)ate si(mi)lem com(m)issione(m) faciend(i) alijs co(e)xec(utoribus)
in h(uius)mo(d)i test(ament)o no(m)i(n)at(is) cu(m) ven(er)int in for(ma) Jur(is) admiss(uri)
In cui(us) rei testi(m)o(n)iu(m) &c Dat(um) &c
The aforewritten will was proved in St Leonard’s Chapel near Norwich on the 11th day of the month of December in the year of the Lord one thousand five hundred before Master Roger Church etc., official etc., and administration was granted to Richard Aylemer, the executor named in the said will [...?] of the said deceased, who whilst he lived and at the time of his death held goods in diverse dioceses of the Province of Canterbury; sworn in form of law; power reserved of making the like grant to the other co-executors named in this will when they shall come to be admitted in form of law. In witness of which etc., dated etc.
Thank you so much, Bookbox!!! :) :D :) You're a star! :) :-* :)
who whilst he lived and at the time of his death held goods in diverse dioceses of the Province of Canterbury
This is so interesting! So much money to be spent on (barfoot) pilgrimages, lol :) :) :) But that is very unusual, that the ones granting the probate actually sit up and make note of how wealthy the testator is!
The aforewritten will was proved in St Leonard’s Chapel near Norwich on the 11th day of the month of December in the year of the Lord one thousand five hundred before Master Roger Church etc., official etc., and administration was granted to Richard Aylemer, the executor named in the said will [...?]
And lots of little interesting details! How odd that he makes his brother Richard Aylmer his executor, but does not actually leave him anything in the will ... Though perhaps he and his mother (who is also mentioned) got the residue?
Are we thinking that Thomas Aylmer's nephew John is one of the two sons that we know Richard Aylmer had, or do we think that he could possibly be an illegitimate child of one of his sisters?
Perhaps of Elizabeth, the daughter of Robert Aylmer, who died on the 15th day of September in the year of the Lord one thousand four hundred and ninety three? A month or two after her father, but who is not mentioned in his will?
Or of a sister who married someone with the same last name?
I leave that question open for now.
Thank you so much again, Bookbox, this was wonderful!!! :) :D :)
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"Excursions in the County of Norfolk" by Thomas Kitson Cromwell.
p.11: the first stone of Norwich cathedral was laid by Bishop Herbert commonly know as Herbert de Losinga in 1096.
p.12: the justly celebrated pile was not completed until the year 1430, under the Presidency of Bishop Aylmer, 346 years after its commencement.
So there was another Bishop Aylmer besides John Aylmer (1521-1594)) of Aylmer Hall, Tivetshall St Margaret, Bishop of London.
You probably know this already but I didn't.
And Aylmer seems to go back at least to Ailmaric de Berriles or Beziles who was granted Beziles, or Boylands Manor in 1272. Sir Aylmer or Ailmaric, died in 1279. Boyland's manor (the one in question as there are 3 in Norfolk) is in Morningthorpe, which is about 2 km east of Long Stratton.
francoso
That is very interesting! No, a third Bishop Aylmer in 1430, in addition to Bishop Ailmer in 1070 and Bishop John Aylmer (1521-1594), was complete news to me! I will have to do some digging :)
That is extremely interesting about Boylandes and that it was so long in the Aylmer family!!! :) :D :)
Do you know how long Boylandes remained in the Thetford family, or to Christopher Thetford?
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Willow: just a few specifics.
1. https://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol4
City of Norwich, chapter 42: The Great Ward of Mancroft, St. Peter of Mancroft
(69) St. Peter of Mancroft.
The following inscriptions are in the nave; and first of those on brass plates, beginning at the most eastern part, just by the step out of the chancel, lies a large stone, having the effigies of a mayor in his robes, between his two wives; by the first wife are the effigies of her children, two boys and two girls; and by the second four girls; it being placed here in memory of Richard Aylmer, mayor in 1511, son of Robert Aylmer, who was mayor in 1481, and 1492, and Joan his first wife; he died in 1512. This inscription is printed in Weever's Funeral Monuments, fo. 802, as imperfect, though it is legible at this day:
Aylmer Ricardus Procerum de stipite natus, Is quondam Maior Urbis, iacet hic tumulatus, Hatis cum prima atque suis Consorte Johanna, Moribus ornatus, Bonus omnibus atque benignus, Anno Milleno, D, bind, cum duodeno, Jous semtembris trino, migrabit ob orbe. O bone Christe Thesu, fons bite, spes, Medicina, Votis inclina, te quesumus aure Benigna, Ut sibi sit Requies, bibat terum sine fine.
2. Notices of the merchants' marks in the city of Norwich. Ewing, William Creasy. p.11
p.11, 8.-1494. Richard Aylmer, Grocer. (?)
p.17, 7.-1493. Robert Aylmer, Mayor in 1481 and 1492. This mark, with his initials, is in several of the South windows in the clerestory. His gravestone, dated 1493, lies under the font.
p.43, 16.-1506. Richard Aylmer, Grocer, Mayor in 1511. He was buried at the East end of the nave in 1512. On a seal to a deed dated 1506.
3. A Compleat History of the Famous City of Norwich, from the Earliest ...
p.13, 1482 William Aylmer, Mayor; 1492 Richard Aylmer, Mayor; 1511 Richard Aylmer, Mayor; 1471 Robert Aylmer, Sherriff; 1501 Richard Aylmer, Sherriff;
p.14, 1536 Thomas Thetford, Sherriff.
4. A Daring Dynasty, Conflict and Control in Early-Tudor England by Mark R. Horowitz
p. 129/130 and footnote 101.
francoso
Yes, I believe that this is our Aylmers of Norwich family :) I am wondering if Richard Aylmer, Grocer (d.1494), could be the father of our Robert Aylmer (d.1493), and thus the grandfather of Richard Aylmer (d.1512) and Thomas Aylmer (d.1500), our testator?
What you mention about:
1482 William Aylmer, Mayor
- is very interesting. It ties together with this that Bookbox was kind enough to translate for me:
for the souls of John and Robert Aylmer, once Mayors of the City of Norwich.
Robert Aylmer must be the one who died in 1493, the father of Richard Aylmer (d.1512), also Mayor of Norwich and Thomas Aylmer (d.1500), our testator, but this John Aylmer is a complete mystery, except that I can find a John Aylmer on a list of Freemen of Norwich.
John Aylemer Leche 16,17,&18H.VI
16 Henry VI 1 Sept 1437
17 Henry VI 1 Sept 1438
18 Henry VI 1 Sept 1439
19 Henry VI 1 Sept 1440
Calendar of the Freemen of Norwich from 1317 to 1603 (Edward II to Elizabeth inclusive) by John L'Estrange (1888)
https://archive.org/stream/freemennorwich1317#page/n25/search/Aylemer
Thanks to heywood and Bookbox we now know that: Leche - physician or healer. One who ‘leeches’; a physician :)
'Leche' - Occupation in 1437-9
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=800085.0
On the same list of Freemen of Norwich I find a William Aylmer:
William Aylmer Carter 20 Edw. IV
That would be about 1481 and matches your William Aylmer perfectly :)
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who whilst he lived and at the time of his death held goods in diverse dioceses of the Province of Canterbury
This is so interesting! So much money to be spent on (barfoot) pilgrimages, lol :) :) :) But that is very unusual, that the ones granting the probate actually sit up and make note of how wealthy the testator is!
It's not so much that they were admiring his wealth. Technically an estate containing property in more than one diocese of the Province of Canterbury should have been proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury. See here:
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Prerogative_Court_of_the_Archbishop_of_Canterbury
They are making some point relating to this, but not explaining it fully. Maybe it was a borderline case where the values didn't quite reach 5 pounds in multiple dioceses?
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who whilst he lived and at the time of his death held goods in diverse dioceses of the Province of Canterbury
This is so interesting! So much money to be spent on (barfoot) pilgrimages, lol :) :) :) But that is very unusual, that the ones granting the probate actually sit up and make note of how wealthy the testator is!
It's not so much that they were admiring his wealth. Technically an estate containing property in more than one diocese of the Province of Canterbury should have been proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury. See here:
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Prerogative_Court_of_the_Archbishop_of_Canterbury
They are making some point relating to this, but not explaining it fully. Maybe it was a borderline case where the values didn't quite reach 5 pounds in multiple dioceses?
Ah, thank you. I did not know this. I am learning so much about this period :)
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Hi Willow. Have you checked/googled Historical Collections Life and Acts John Aylmer?
https://archive.org/details/historicalcolle00strygoog is one of several links.
The book, Chapter I and X give details of Bishop John Aylmer and his family descendants but not antecedents. He married Judith Bures/Buers and had seven sons: Samuel, Theophilus, John, Zachary, Nathaniel, Tobel, Edmund and, to quote, "two or three daughters". One daughter (no name) married a person named Squire, while a second, Mary, married a person named Lynche. The Chapter X also give some grandchildren, and mentions Bishop John's lands and to which children he left them. Pity it doesn't mention ancestors but ..
francoso
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Also this, Willow:
JUDITH BURES KING (AYLMER) 1525-1618
[Ancestral Link: Lura Minnie Parker (Stagge), daughter of Minnie May Elmer (Parker), daughter of Mark Alfred Elmer, son of William Elmer, son of John Elmer, son of William Elmer, son of William Elmer, son of John Elmer, son of John Elmer, son of Edward Elmer, son of Edward Elmer, son of Samuel Elmer or Aylmer, son of Judith Bures King (Aylmer).]
Written on monument of Judith Aylmer, Much Hadham, Herts London, England
Here lieth the Body of Judith Aylmer, the Daughter of Robert King, Esq;
she was twice married; first to Nathaniel Treherne; Esq; in Queen Mary's
Reign; afterwards in Queen Elizabeth's Reign, to John Aylmer, Bishop of London,
by whom he had eight sons and two Daughters: She lived a Widow 24 Years,
and died in the 78th Year of her Age, the 17th Day of Dec. An. Dem. 1618.
From Historical Antiquities of Hertfordshire.
Also, on Geni is a version of his ancestors: no guarantees
https://www.geni.com/people/John-Aylmer-Bishop-of-London/600000002029846a Frances1700
Gives Bishop Aylmer's father as John Alylmer and mother as a Frances. And the father, John Aylmer, as having father Richard Aylmer and mother a Margaret. This goes back further but no idea how accurate it is.
This also gives the name of another of Bishop John's daughters as Elizabeth. Which means three daughters as Judith, Mary and Elizabeth (covering both queens, eh ?).
francoso
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Hi Willow. Have you checked/googled Historical Collections Life and Acts John Aylmer?
https://archive.org/details/historicalcolle00strygoog is one of several links.
The book, Chapter I and X give details of Bishop John Aylmer and his family descendants but not antecedents. He married Judith Bures/Buers and had seven sons: Samuel, Theophilus, John, Zachary, Nathaniel, Tobel, Edmund and, to quote, "two or three daughters". One daughter (no name) married a person named Squire, while a second, Mary, married a person named Lynche. The Chapter X also give some grandchildren, and mentions Bishop John's lands and to which children he left them. Pity it doesn't mention ancestors but ..
francoso
The Bishop's descendants are actually pretty well-documented :) Some of them ended up in the New World in about 1634, so not long after the period we are researching! It is the more curious that we know nothing (nothing verifiable anyway!) about his parentage ...
Several have tried their hand at solving this mystery and I have a small hope that we might manage it yet!
There is something deeply satisfying about managing something nobody else has :)
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Written on monument of Judith Aylmer, Much Hadham, Herts London, England
Here lieth the Body of Judith Aylmer, the Daughter of Robert King, Esq;
she was twice married; first to Nathaniel Treherne; Esq; in Queen Mary's
Reign; afterwards in Queen Elizabeth's Reign, to John Aylmer, Bishop of London,
by whom he had eight sons and two Daughters: She lived a Widow 24 Years,
and died in the 78th Year of her Age, the 17th Day of Dec. An. Dem. 1618.
From Historical Antiquities of Hertfordshire.
Oh, this is quite a find, thank you so much! :) :D :) This I had not seen before! So Judith Bures was born in 1540 and married her first husband between July 1553 and November 1558. And married Bishop John Aylmer after November 1558. This is amazing! Some verifiable facts and dates! Wonderful! :) :) :)
Gives Bishop Aylmer's father as John Alylmer and mother as a Frances. And the father, John Aylmer, as having father Richard Aylmer and mother a Margaret. This goes back further but no idea how accurate it is.
The Frances is probably a result of believing that the lady of the Privy Chamber who died in 1540 could be his mother. That is what I belived until we went over her will :) The Richard Aylmer and Margaret is very interesting. I will keep my eyes peeled for them!
This also gives the name of another of Bishop John's daughters as Elizabeth. Which means three daughters as Judith, Mary and Elizabeth (covering both queens, eh ?).
francoso
If you were going to survive in those times it was best to cover all bases, lololol :)