RootsChat.Com

Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: jason 20 on Saturday 22 September 18 09:02 BST (UK)

Title: Advice needed
Post by: jason 20 on Saturday 22 September 18 09:02 BST (UK)
Hi all,

I am currently doing a colleagues family tree and his great grandfather appears to have come to the UK during the period of the great famine.

His name is Luke Kearney. I can't find him in the UK in 1841, but i have the following records

1851: Head of house, born 1829 (listed as born Salford, (is it common to hide the fact you are from Ireland during this period?) He is living in Wolverhampton with his wife Catherine, he is a Flax Dresser

1861: Head of house, born in Ireland in 1832, married to Eliza this time living in Salford, and again is a Flax & Hemp dresser

1871: Head of house, born Dublin in 1832, living in West Bromwich, a Flax dresser

What i am wondering is the following, it appears that Luke & Catherine married before they came to the UK as i can't find a marriage record for them in the UK, is there any marriage record for them in Ireland

Are there any records of when Luke may have arrived in the UK?

Are there any parish records for Luke in Ireland?

Many thanks in anticipation

Jason
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 22 September 18 09:07 BST (UK)
What birthplace does Catherine have?  Do you have a death for her?

Was he a widower when he married Eliza?

I don’t think he would have need to hide where he was from so probably just a census error or he gave the place he was living in error.

There are no passenger lists per say between Ireland and England.
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: jason 20 on Saturday 22 September 18 09:26 BST (UK)
Hi, thanks for the reply,

It states Catherine's birth place as Manchester, but i didn't take much notice of that as it also said Luke's as Salford, that along with the fact i am unable to find a marriage in the UK made me believe that they most probably came over together, although i know it's dangerous to assume things.

Also i am unable to find any death that would appear to match Catherine, but did find the marriage between Luke & Eliza Andrews, however as i've only been researching the tree for a few days i've not had time to order a cert.

That helps answer the question about when they came over then, it appears the most accurate we shall get is some time between 1841 & 1851.

Many thanks

Jason
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: scotmum on Saturday 22 September 18 11:14 BST (UK)
Your Luke seems to have been in Salford at 1851 and 1861, but do you think he moved to live in Birmingham for a time between these dates? edited as Luke was in Wolverhampton at 1851.

Given the Luke Kearney to Eliza Andrews marriage took place in Birmingham in 1859, have you ruled out the Catherine Carney death in Birmingham area in Sep quarter 1857?
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 22 September 18 11:27 BST (UK)
Quote
Your Luke seems to have been in Salford at 1851 and 1861,

He's in Wolverhampton in 1861 if I have the right one.  Listed as a lodger. 

I did wonder if maybe Catherine was a sister not a wife but it says married for Luke.
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 22 September 18 11:29 BST (UK)
Quote
have you ruled out the Catherine Carney death in Birmingham area in Sep quarter 1857?

That one is given as age 0 so I think we can rule that one out. 
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: scotmum on Saturday 22 September 18 11:35 BST (UK)
Quote
have you ruled out the Catherine Carney death in Birmingham area in Sep quarter 1857?

That one is given as age 0 so I think we can rule that one out.

I used FreeBMD, which doesn't indicate age, so thanks for checking.
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: scotmum on Saturday 22 September 18 11:38 BST (UK)
Quote
Your Luke seems to have been in Salford at 1851 and 1861,

He's in Wolverhampton in 1861 if I have the right one.  Listed as a lodger. 

I did wonder if maybe Catherine was a sister not a wife but it says married for Luke.

So, given jason 20 indicated 'his' Luke was in Salford at 1861, do you think they are following the 'wrong' Luke?

Edit:

Just re-read jason 20's original post and see Luke was in Wolverhampton in 1851 ( I had mis-read it first time).
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 22 September 18 11:44 BST (UK)
I'm getting it wrong myself now - yes 1851 is the Wolverhampton one.

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: scotmum on Saturday 22 September 18 11:45 BST (UK)
 ;D

Yes, we were both having an 'off moment'  methinks.
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 22 September 18 11:47 BST (UK)
Ireland was part of the U.K. so no records were kept for people travelling between Ireland and England, Scotland, Wales.

The marriage certificate for Luke & Eliza should list his father's occupation.

To find records in Ireland you need a more exact location- parish if not actual townland.

Were any children from either marriage born in England? if so please give us their details do we can try to find mother's maiden names.
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 22 September 18 11:49 BST (UK)
There's a death on the Lancs site of a

Catherine Kearney age 29

1 Mar 1857

Salford

Age about fits with the 1851 census of 22
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 22 September 18 11:56 BST (UK)
Quote
Were any children from either marriage born in England? if so please give us their details do we can try to find mother's maiden names.

Ruth Margaret Kearney born Sep 1860 Aston has mothers maiden name Andrews

which ties in with the marriage Jason has found.

Luke 29
Eliza 25
Ruth 9 months

are together in 1861 again as lodgers
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: scotmum on Saturday 22 September 18 21:02 BST (UK)
A marriage for further checkng (albeit on west coast):


11 Jan 1850
County Mayo
Luke Carney to Catharine McNicholas

https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000632342#page/1/mode/1up
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: scotmum on Saturday 22 September 18 21:11 BST (UK)
Another few records to check, this time  births:

Quote
.    Baptism: 8 Apr 1855 Cathedral Church of St John the Evangelist, Salford, Lancashire, England
Thomas Kearney - [Child] of Luke Kearney & Catherine (formerly Thorney)
Born: 10 Jan 1855
Godparents: Mary Ann Kearney

and

Baptism: 22 Mar 1857 Cathedral Church of St John the Evangelist, Salford, Lancashire, England
Edwardus Kearney - filius Lucae Kearney & Catherinae (formerly Hurley)
    Born: 7 Oct 1856
Godparents: Jacobus Regan; Margarita Kearney
 

see. http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 22 September 18 22:22 BST (UK)
There is a Thomas age 6 grandson in 1861 with grandparents Thomas & Ann both born Ireland.

Possible marriage in 1826 Dublin but unless we can find this family with a Luke  :-\

They have eldest children born Dublin and youngest children born Salford

Children are Thomas 1831 - Mary Ann 1833 - Peter 1835 - Dublin

Margaret - 1839 - Catherine 1841 - Richard 1844 - Salford
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: heywood on Saturday 22 September 18 23:36 BST (UK)
Luke baptised 1828, Dublin parents Thomas and Anne

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mrf/
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: heywood on Saturday 22 September 18 23:38 BST (UK)
Thomas 1830 parents Thomas and Anne - Godparents are Masterson as with Luke.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mrg/
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: heywood on Saturday 22 September 18 23:44 BST (UK)
These baptisms fit with the birth of Richard Kearney 1844, Salford mmn Masterson.

Marriage Thomas Kearney and Anne Teresa Masterson 1829
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.mary%27s-pro-cath_mf_1800-1862_ma_0216

According to Irish Genealogy, Luke was baptised 1828 but no date and no record to be viewed.
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: heywood on Sunday 23 September 18 00:03 BST (UK)
This family were in England in 1841 - can’t see them though in census.

You really do need to check the marriage certificate for Luke’s father.

This family may not be the right one as Milliepede pointed out earlier.
Title: Re: Advice needed
Post by: scotmum on Sunday 23 September 18 00:03 BST (UK)
Re my reply #14, child, Edward, sadly died young:

Quote
Death: 1 Jun 1857 Cathedral Church of St John the Evangelist, Salford, Lancashire, England
Edward Kearney -
 Cause of Death: Whooping Cough

I think both children were possibly to same couple, but mother's maiden name possibly mis-transcribed in one entry. Still no obvious marriage, though.