RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: LaytonLily on Sunday 23 September 18 16:30 BST (UK)
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I wonder if someone on this impressive family history website can help me find the birth of my GGF, William Aston born 1839 in Birmingham. I have noted births of 2 in 1838 and 4 in 1839 but cannot afford to be sending for all those birth certificates to find if 'my' William Aston is one of them. It would need to say his mother was Emma. I have spent 40 years and more working out the history of this man, who changed his name when committing bigamy, which meant the searching took longer and longer ! It may be I will just have to accept I will not find him prior to the 1851 census, as I haven't found him or his mother, or his brother John born 1837, on the 1841 census. For his brother John there are 4 birth entries on BMD in 1838 and 1 in 1837. Taking one last chance to track him down !
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Could you please give details of the family in 1851. It is possible that his birth was not registered.
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That was an impressively quick reply ! I know from past experience though how excellent the help is here.
I can give you the 1851 details but then he was William Twist (you really don't want to know the long story behind it all !). He is shown as age 12yrs. with his older brother John 14yrs. His mother is Emma but although she is shown as being Twist and the 'wife' of Joseph Twist, they were not married.
I just wondered if anyone had easy access to the birth records in London and the time and inclination to take a look at the possible birth entries. Wish it was possible to go myself to the Birmingham offices to search. I did have a good relationship with the people in Broad Street years ago but it seems to have changed and be less 'user friendly'.
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William's mother Emma - do you know her maiden surname or his father's name? If we can find out Emma's surname we can check the General Register Office Index to locate family births.
Philip
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Looking at birth entries in London is not a thing anyone can do, other than looking online for index details which can be done from anywhere. Birth registrations can’t be looked up; certificates or pdfs have to be ordered.
However there’s lots of experience in the latter on here, which can be brought to bear if you provide the details you do know. We really do want to know why he’s William Twist, and how and when he became Aston or any other name.
Whom did he marry - is he the one to be found later with a wife called Ann Dora?
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Joseph Twists birth reg gives mmn as Aston
TWIST, JOSEPH mmn ASTON
1849 March Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 338
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Joseph Twists birth reg gives mmn as Aston
TWIST, JOSEPH mmn ASTON
1849 March Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 338
Ah. In that case the most likely birth would be:
Jun qtr 1838 Birmingham vol 16 p337 ASTON William - no mmn.
Philip
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There are some other posts on the Astons / Twists -
just for a start http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=746474.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=719507.0
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This is the proverbial can of worms for me !
rosie99 - yes those previous entries you will see for LaytonLily are me. Still looking!
avm228 - yes he married Anndora in 1868. He gives his father's name as William Aston, Gun maker. (so many twists (!) and turns though I don't know what to believe about him)
philipsearching - Emma died 1859 and her father is on death certificate as William Aston, watercarrier and it is under her name of Emma Aston. Joseph Twist, who she appeared to be married to in 1851 census gives this in his Will of 1883 - 'To each of my reputed children born to me by my late housekeeper, Emma Aston....' and John and William are not named, but the other children shown on the 1851 census are.
The fact of him changing his name on marriage in 1868 was a case of bigamy. So he presumably went back to his birth surname? his mother's surname of Aston.
As I say, 40 years of getting here little by little, piece by piece, by frustrating piece ! But I know I am not alone in this.
Lot more info on my search in the previous entries on Rootschat.
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philipsearching you say this is most likely to be him -
Jun qtr 1838 Birmingham vol 16 p337 ASTON William - no mmn.
but there are possibly 6 who might be him.
Dec 1838 Wolverhampton (I don't know whereabouts in Birmingham area he was born - I am presuming most likely to be Birmingham area but could be outlying districts)
March 1839 Birmingham
June 1839 Birmingham
Sept 1839 Kings Norton (Joseph Twist has some connection with Kings Norton, not saying he was the father but maybe that is where he met Emma)
Sept 1839 Wolverhampton.
So unless I can find him with a mother named Emma, who knows which one he is, or if any of them.
I'd settle for finding the birth details of his older brother John if I have to accept I will never find any more details going back on William.
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Is the 1838 birth, that Philip suggested, one of those you have already tried? It’s the only one of those you have listed that has a mother with the maiden name Aston.
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Lily M
philipsearching wrote this :
Joseph Twists birth reg gives mmn as Aston
TWIST, JOSEPH mmn ASTON
1849 March Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 16 Page 338
Ah. In that case the most likely birth would be:
Jun qtr 1838 Birmingham vol 16 p337 ASTON William - no mmn.
But the birth entry which gave the mother's maiden name was for Joseph born 1849 - the son of Joseph Twist and Emma Aston, as shown on the 1851 census.
There is no mother's maiden name given for this William June 1838 so who knows who his mother is.
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From what has been said, Emma's maiden name was Aston and although living with Joseph Twist they were never married i.e. any children born before she got together with him would have been Aston and would show as illegitimate in the new GRO index i.e. no mmn given (as is the case with the birth entry you've been given). This must be your William Aston's birth entry as none of the other 'possibilities' had a mmn of Aston.
Annette
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You say Emma Aston died 1859 and that on her death certificate her father is given as William Aston, watercarrier. I'm intrigued as fathers aren't normally stated on death certificates (unless you mean he was the informant of her death). I cannot find a William Aston on census who was a watercarrier either.
Annette
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I have noted births of 2 in 1838 and 4 in 1839 but cannot afford to be sending for all those birth certificates to find if 'my' William Aston is one of them. It would need to say his mother was Emma.
All you do is fill out the birth certificate order form, say 'no' to having a reference number, and fill it out like my example below.
If you are unable to trace or do not have the index reference you may still apply online for any event which took place on or after 1st July 1837 to 6 months from the current date (for marriages this period is extended to 18 months) provided you have sufficient information to identify the entry. A 3 year search for the index reference will be carried out. You should supply the exact date of event if you have it. If you don't have the exact date, enter 01/01/YYYY and we will search the specified year and one year either side. If you do not provide an index reference number, your application will take up to 15 working days to process.
If none of the births in those years 1838-1840 have a mother named as Emma then you will receive a refund and no certificate.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/app_select.asp
Debra :)
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I feel I am missing something here that folks are trying to tell me !
Annette7 You say: This must be your William Aston's birth entry as none of the other 'possibilities' had a mmn of Aston.
Which William Aston birth ? Because none of the 6 that I gave have a mother's maiden name.(taken from FreeBMD). And wasn't it some years after 1837 before the mothers maiden name was given anyway ?
You say about the odd fact on Emma's death certificate her father is listed - that is another long tale that a professional researcher discovered ! Nothing is straight-forward or easy with this William Aston !
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The Jun qtr 1838 birth registration which has been suggested to you is the only one with no separate mother’s maiden name listed; the only surname on the registration is Aston. This implies that the birth is an illegitimate one to a mother whose surname is Aston.
All the others are indexed with mother’s maiden names other than Aston, which are not a match for his brother’s birth which tells you that Emma’s maiden name was Aston.
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avm228 It sounds as if I am missing something significant here - where are you finding this information that gives the mother's maiden name ? Because in FreeBMD website, as I say, there is no mmn given for any of the 6 possible births.
Thank you to Dundee Debra for her helpful information on sending for certificates.
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The index information comes from GRO Online, which indexes mother’s maiden name from 1837 (in contrast to FreeBMD, which begins to do so only from 1911).
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
It is free to use, but registration is required.
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Well that is very significant ! Doing this FH research for over 40years and still so much to learn. But then I have not been doing very much on my FH over recent years so have no doubt lost touch with what is now available. Your information on William Aston June Qtr 1838 might just be what I have been looking for and failing to find all these years - I will let you know. !
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Hope it provides the answers you seek. I’d recommend ordering the £6 pdf from GRO Online rather than spending £9.25 ordering a certificate by post - it’s cheaper, quicker and provides exactly the same information.
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Yes I will order the pdf - and now back home, am about to do it right now. Didn't know that was available. Had learnt that ordering a paper copy from Birmingham Register Office they charge £6 admin fee on top of cost of certificate, so to pay £6 for the actual copy is excellent.
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I have ordered a pdf copy of the birth certificate for William Aston - will GRO-online e-mail me when it is ready to download ? I cannot see anywhere on the website where it gives me the option to download the pdf birth certificate.
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Yes, it'll take a few days and you'll get an email when it is ready.
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Yes, it'll take a few days and you'll get an email when it is ready.
I've just looked back at my emails and, for what it's worth, it took a week last time I ordered one.
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Many thanks. Thought I would get a quicker reply from this website - and so it proved!
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So today I have received the birth certificate as I requested for William Aston. At first sight I thought 'Oh no more disappointment' but I don't know, it might be 'the one'. See what folks think on this very knowledgeable site.
It does give a father's name, which is William Aston - so far so good! The mother's name given is Jemima Standfield. Now does that mean they were not married ? Although I have his mother as Emma, I suppose Jemima could easily be shortened to Emma.
I am not deciding one way or other at the moment, it needs further exploration, if that is possible to get to the answer.
The pdf was too big to send (and I don't know how to make it smaller) so I have 'cut' the main section and pasted it into Word document. Hope it gives you what you need to help.
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Well that was a short lived hope ! Looking on Family Search for anything on Jemima Standfield I find the death of William Standfield in July 1838 age 0yrs. So although presumably named at birth for Aston, died as Standfield
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The mother's name given is Jemima Standfield. Now does that mean they were not married ?
The short answer is no, it doesn't. The heading is for "Name and maiden surname of mother", so there is no way to tell from the birth cert whether or not there was a marriage.
Philip
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What a pity. It looks like William’s birth wasn’t registered then. So frustrating.
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The mother's name given is Jemima Standfield. Now does that mean they were not married ?
The short answer is no, it doesn't. The heading is for "Name and maiden surname of mother", so there is no way to tell from the birth cert whether or not there was a marriage.
Philip
If they were married I would expect it to read Jemima Aston formerly (or similar word ) Standfield.
The birth certificate does not give the baby a surname it just names him as William. It then names his parents who don't happen to share the same surname. Sometimes birth registrations like this are indexed under both surnames.
Shame he is not yours though.
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Hi, Am trying to contact you re a separate post (possibly quite old and which I've now lost!) re the Layton family and a possible burial at Dolefield Cottage. We live in what was the barn to Bank Farm, mathon, whioch was owned by the Layton family, and Dolefield Cottage (to be precise 'Cottages' as they are now two) are next door. I have more information on the family but most is derived from the work of June Harwood who may well be known to you. Feel free to reply via this site Regards, David (Robertson) High Grove Barn.
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Hello David,
Your other topic is here
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=507929.0
I am trying to help you connect with the member but I am a bit unsure on who you are trying to make contact with ? If you can let me know their username I can see what I can do.
Regards
Sarah :)