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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: BronwenS on Tuesday 25 September 18 07:45 BST (UK)
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Hi
Can anyone tell me what the 'notes' pertain to on this register. I get this information from Genes Reunited. Not all of the registers I look at have notes but I am curious whether this gives the first name of her husband?
nga mihi nui
Bronwen Summers
Christchurch
NZ
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It may not be relevant but Edward Bankes married Ann Steele in Cowfold 26th April 1607. The w probably means wife of Edward.
There is a further marriage for an Edward to Mary Beard in 1613.
What is the Gillam bit of her name?
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Image of the parish register here. Says wife of Edward
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DRTV-T1?i=31&cat=144074
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Okay that makes sense. I am in fact looking for an Ann Gillam who married Nicholas Bancks. And I thought that was probably what the notes meant so I can rule that one out. However any idea as to what (Agnis) is about, what it means?
many thanks
Bronwen Christchurch, NZ
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I am in fact looking for an Ann Gillam who married Nicholas Bancks.
They married at Ardingly in 1574
FamilySearch has indexed an Elenor being baptized at Ardingly 1575, father Nicholas Bankes
And a Mary at Wivelsfield in 1578
There are no burials indexed at Ardingly?
But a Nicholas Banks was buried in Lindfield in 1614.
There is a will for this chap, proved in the Deanery of South Malling, 28 May 1614. He was a tailor.
We can see it online (is in very good condition!)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-D1M3-N3W?i=772&cat=173636
Names wife Joane, one of his daughters is Elenor, who is married.
Was Joan a second wife?
Potential marriage on the SMI, 19 Sep 1603, Lindfield, Nich Bancks + Jone Pollard.
Sussex Burials has an Agnes Bancks buried at Lindfield in 1601.
Now does that say wife of Nicholas? Perhaps someone will let us know. And could it be the lady who married as Ann?
By the way, SMI says Ann Gillam was a widow.
Image of PR here, left hand page, second entry
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DBT7-4K4?i=36&cat=229142
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That burial in 1601 does say wife of Nicholas.
John Gillam to Agnes Beldame at Ardingly in Feb 1571/2 but she was a widow then too. This could be complicated!
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Thank you, Sillgen.
Looks promising!
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I cannot see an earlier Beldame marriage to an Agnes but it is getting very early for parish records online. (Edited earlier post)
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Thanks to all of you - this is indeed very complicated it appears. I was thrilled to see those two documents on line, the will which is indeed in such great condition and the Gillam one. I assume I can buy them from the two different Sussex places that have them?
But I could be up the wrong tree - and I note none of you mention Mary as one of the daughters of Nicholas Banckes and Ann Gillam - and the gap between her birth and her siblings is rather large.
I am looking for this family - and whilst it says Mary Bancks background (she is the person I am following)
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/2MP2-M5J
However how likely that she was born in 1594 and marries in 1606 and has her first child in 1608?
1548 BANCKS
Nicholas Bancks husband of Ann Gillam
b.1548c
m.1574 Jan 19, Ann Gillam (a widow), Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
d.1614 Lindfield, West Sussex, Eng.
O Tailor
1555 GILLAM
Ann Gillam wife of Nicholas Bancks mother of Mary Bancks
b.
m.1574 Jan 19, Nicholas Bancks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
m.Joane? Will names Joane as wife and daughter Elenor who is married, potential marriage SMI 19 sept 1603 Lindfield, Nich Bancks + Jone Pollard?
d.
Children 2
1575 Oct 23 bc Elenor Banks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
1578 Mary Bankes Wivelsfield
1594 cJune 8 Mary Bancks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
Mary Bancks wife of John Potter mother of Thomas Potter
b.1594 cJune 8 Ardingly, Sussex Eng.
m.1606 Aug 10, John Potter, Worth, Sussex, Eng.
d.
Children 6
1608 c.Nov 6 Thomas Potter, Worth, Sussex, Eng.
1611 Aug c.Aug 25 Francis Potter m.1631 Oct 23 William Russell c.
1613 Feb 6 c.Feb 6 -1643 John Potter c.1644 William Potter
1619 Nov 21 c.Nov 21 – 1626 Mar 18 George Potter
1623 Sept 28 Charles Potter
1645 Dec 28 c.Dec 28 Bridget Potter SEEMS LIKE A RATHER LARGE GAP here too.
Regards Bronwen
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Hi
I have now discovered this but it is also confusing -
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/changelog/2MP2-M5J
But it does have Mary's birth as
1576 cJune 18 Mary Bancks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng. So not a child bride after all.
But where does it leave this one which one of you gave me.
1578 Mary Bankes Wivelsfield
Nga mihi nui
Bronwen, Christchurch, NZ
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I cannot find the 1576 baptism in the book I have of Ardingly registers so I wonder where that information came from originally. Are you a member of the Sussex Family History group? They have online records for members which you would find helpful.
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No I am not a member but given the proliferation of family in that area I will probably join that group. I have just joined the Shropshire group where I have many forbears.
This is all it says:
Reason This Information Is Correct
wivelsford, sussex, england
I assume this is meant to be Wivelsfield?
Many thanks for your help
Bronwen
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I may be wrong but I think that Nicholas named his daughter Mary as executor. And that probate was granted to Mary Banks.
In which case his daughter Mary was unmarried when he died.
John
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Thanks for that, according to what I have he had two daughters called Mary?
The middle one is the one I am following.
1575 Oct 23 bc Elenor Banks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
1576 cJune 18 Mary Bancks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
1578 Mary Bankes Wivelsfield
Nga mihi Bronwen
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But did Nicholas mention a daughter Potter in his will?
Two Mary Banks married within a month in Worth in 1606
Image of parish register here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XKP3-DNL
Bit of luck, the first available BT for Worth is 1606
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-698W-WW5?i=304&cat=75601
What about Mercy Ban(c)ks, bap July 1586, Worth, daughter of John? Different spellings on various transcripts.
Image here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2QQ-9BGK
A John Banks of Worth died in 1609, buried there, left a will (Archdeaconry of Lewes). I can't find the original. Either I missed it, or it hasn't survived. There is the copy will (is indexed on The Keep website)
But another John Bancks was buried in Worth in January 1592/3 - no info on that one.
John
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Mary Bancks wife of John Potter mother of Thomas Potter
Hi
A will of Thomas Potter of Worth, 1681. Is it the same one?
http://www.thekeep.info/collections/getrecord/GB179_PBT_1_1_35_362B
Original will here. Nice and easy to read!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6D39-FJ9?i=759&cat=685691
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Thanks for that, according to what I have he had two daughters called Mary?
The middle one is the one I am following.
1575 Oct 23 bc Elenor Banks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
1576 cJune 18 Mary Bancks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
1578 Mary Bankes Wivelsfield
Nga mihi Bronwen
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Is this research you have done yourself or is it from another source? Banks and variants are common names in the area so it would be easy to confuse two families.
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For what its worth it would be uncommon (not impossible) to have two daughters named Mary. The inference is that the first Mary (bc 1576 Ardingly) which is the one you are following died prior to the birth of the second one in 1578 Wivelsfield.
What is the likelihood that i) they are actually one and the same Mary or ii) the one b. 1576 did die - have you looked for a burial?
Pheno
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Hi
This just research I have done myself but not of course set in concrete. I had read somewhere that very occasionally people had the same first name in one family. I have looked for the death also and if she died then I am looking at the wrong one, and perhaps they are one and the same - see below the one I want. Some of it came from 'family search' and I will have used Genes Reunited. I have just joined the Sussex society so may be able to sort this out through that site.
many thanks to all of you
Bronwen
1555 GILLAM
Ann Gillam wife of Nicholas Bancks mother of Mary Bancks
b.
m.1574 Jan 19, Nicholas Bancks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
m.Joane? Will names Joane as wife and daughter Elenor who is married potential marriage SMI 19 sept 1603 Lindfield, Nich Bancks + Jone Pollard?
d.
Children 2/3?
1575 Oct 23 bc Elenor Banks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
1576 cJune 18 Mary Bancks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
1578 Mary Bankes Wivelsfield
In Nicholas will suggests Mary the executor is unbmarried
Mary Bancks wife of John Potter mother of Thomas Potter
b.1576 cJune 18 Ardingly, Sussex Eng. (Wilvesford?)
m.1606 Aug 10, John Potter, Worth, Sussex, Eng.
d.1594
Children 6
1608 c.Nov 6 Thomas Potter, Worth, Sussex, Eng.
1611 Aug c.Aug 25 Francis Potter m.1631 Oct 23 William Russell c.
1613 Feb 6 c.Feb 6 -1643 John Potter c.1644 William Potter
1619 Nov 21 c.Nov 21 – 1626 Mar 18 George Potter
1623 Sept 28 Charles Potter
1645 Dec 28 c.Dec 28 Bridget Potter SEEMS LIKE A RATHER LARGE GAP
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1645 Dec 28 c.Dec 28 Bridget Potter SEEMS LIKE A RATHER LARGE GAP
27 Dec 1645
Bridgett the daughter of Thomas Potter & of Mary
Image here (first entry)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XKP3-6QS?i=95&cat=275785
Is Mary an error in the register? Should it say Sara?
There was a daughter Bridget mentioned in that will of Thomas Potter.
John
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1623 Sept 28 Charles Potter
1645 Dec 28 c.Dec 28 Bridget Potter SEEMS LIKE A RATHER LARGE GAP
It's an impossible gap. No woman born in 1576, first child born in 1608, would still be having children in 1645 when she would have been 70!
Even the last one in 1623 stretching it a bit, but not impossible.
Nell
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Thanks John
I am not quite with you, why would it say Sara?
Thanks for the register for Bridget - does seem like a rather large gap between Bridget and her siblings?. I haven't sited the two documents properly yet to be able to read them thoroughly but now that I am in the Sussex heritage group I should be able to do that.
Many thanks
Bronwen on a beautiful fine sparkling morning in Christchurch.
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Point taken Nell, need to re-look at who is whose children.
thanks
Bronwen
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All the other baptisms were to Thomas and Sara
Just that one saying Mary
Bridget is daughter of Thomas, according to the will.
So you have attributed Bridget to John and Mary, but the father was Thomas (and mother Sara perhaps?)
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This is Elenor daughter of Nicholas and Ann (Gillam) born when Ann was 17.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/find/name?search=1&birth=West%20Sussex,%20England,%20United%20Kingdom|1578|0&self=Elenor|Bancks|0|0&_=1538079719791
it has here that Mary was born when Ann was 36, of course I know these connections are not necessarily correct.
So the will is Thomas' will not Nicholas?
Many thanks Bronwen
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This Mary Bancks and her parents and her husband.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/find/name?search=1&birth=West%20Sussex,%20England,%20United%20Kingdom|1590|0&self=Mary|Bancks|0|0&_=1538080257228
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So the will is Thomas' will not Nicholas?
Hi
I think I've given you two wills
The first was Nicholas Banks, 1614
and the second one was Thomas Potter, 1681
You can't download them, but you can save them by using print screen, snipping tool, etc, or just taking a photo!
John
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Thanks John. I do use snipping tool but not print screen - the real issue is it shows such a small amount at a time. But I will now get on to the records via the Essex history group.
Good to hear you have sited both wills. I need to go backwards from Mary (Bancks) Potter to see that I have the right person.
Kind regards Bronwen
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I would be quite interested to know how you got back to Mary Banckes Potter as looking last night at the various links you gave it did all seem very complicated and I was not at all clear on the correct line of progression.
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I hope this is clearer, it is difficult because once I put the text in here it doesn't hold the bold or colour I have highlighted things in. The ones I am directly following are in bold in my sheets, but above each female name it gives the name of the husband and her child who is the exact line I am following.
Happy to send privately if you wish me too. It is certainly much easier to understand it if it is printed out.
Regards Bronwen
Thomas Potter husband of Margaret ?
b.1561
m.1580 Margaret ? Worth, Sussex, Eng.
d.
Margaret ? wife of Thomas Potter, mother of John Potter
b.1560?
m.
d.
Children 1
1581 Feb 15, John Potter
John Potter husband of Mary Bancks
b.1581 Feb 15 c.Feb 15, Worth, Sussex, Eng.
m.1606 Aug 10, Mary Bancks Worth, Sussex, Eng.
d.
Nicholas Bancks husband of Ann Gillam
b.1548c
m.1574 Jan 19, Ann Gillam (a widow), Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
d.1614 Lindfield, West Sussex, Eng.
O Tailor
Ann Gillam wife of Nicholas Bancks mother of Mary Bancks
b.
m.1574 Jan 19, Nicholas Bancks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
m.Joane? Will names Joane as wife and daughter Elenor who is married potential marriage SMI 19 sept 1603 Lindfield, Nich Bancks + Jone Pollard?
d.
Children 2
1575 Oct 23 bc Elenor Banks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
1576 cJune 18 Mary Bancks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
1578 June 18 Mary Bankes Wivelsfield, Sussex, Eng.
Mary Bancks husband of John Potter mother of Thomas Potter
b.1576 cJune 18 Ardingly, Sussex Eng. (Wilvesford)
m.1606 Aug 10, John Potter, Worth, Sussex, Eng.
d.1594
Children 6
1608 c.Nov 6 Thomas Potter, Worth, Sussex, Eng.
1611 Aug c.Aug 25 Francis Potter m.1631 Oct 23 William Russell c.
1613 Feb 6 c.Feb 6 -1643 John Potter c.1644 William Potter
1619 Nov 21 c.Nov 21 – 1626 Mar 18 George Potter
1623 Sept 28 Charles Potter
1645 Dec 27 c.Dec 27 Bridget Potter
Thomas Potter husband of Sarah Comber
b.1608 c.Nov 6
m.1637 May 18 Worth, Sussex, Eng. Sarah Comber
m.1606
d.
Sarah Comber wife of Thomas Potter mother of Roger Potter
b.1610? Worth, Sussex, Eng.
m.1637 May 18 Worth, Sussex, Eng. Thomas Potter
d.
Children 5
1635 Mar 11 John Potter, Worth, Sussex, Eng.
1641 c.Apr 11 – 1643 William Potter, Worth, Sussex, Eng.
1641 c.Apr 11 Thomas Potter, Worth, Sussex, Eng.
1644 May 3 c.May 5 Roger Potter, Worth, Sussex, Eng.
1647 Feb 10 c1649 Feb 10 Henry Potter
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My problem is that some of this cannot be substantiated. I have already told you that there is no baptism in Ardingly in 1576 for Mary Banckes - nor any spelling variant. I cannot see a marriage for Thomas Potter in Worth in 1580 to a Margaret either. Where have you found this information?
There are burials for Potters in Worth which you may find interesting. John Potter's baptism is Feb 28th in 1583/4. Not 1581. There are too many discrepancies here for comfort.
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Hi
Thanks for that, I have left Mary Banckes in there with that date but know it is something I need to follow up. Family search had some of those dates which is where I will have found them. But he has changed the date of her birth back to 1590+ which would make her a child bride but maybe the wrong family. I suspect Thomas Potter was found in the same source.
I was looking at the Potters last evening on the Sussex website.
many thanks
Best wishes
Bronwen
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That will of Nicholas Banks of Lindfield was proved 28 May 1614 by daughter Mary.
The Sussex Marriage Index then has a marriage at Lindfield on 13 June 1614
Thomas Bruck + Mary Banks
So that may be said daughter. Not sure whether Bruck is going to be the usual form of the groom's name?
John
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Great thanks John - I am just on the Sussex (impressive) website looking at Potters.
Regards Bronwen
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1575 Oct 23 bc Elenor Banks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
1576 cJune 18 Mary Bancks, Ardingly, West Sussex, Eng.
1578 June 18 Mary Bankes Wivelsfield, Sussex, Eng.
I think you need to look at all these 'facts' and assess them very carefully.
In the above, there are two baptism dates of 18th June, two years apart but in two different places. Have you checked the original registers or are you relying on secondary sources, like transcriptions or online trees which are relying on transcriptions?
The gap between the baptisms of Elenor and the first Mary looks impossible - less than 40 weeks, especially if both children survived and were born full-term. I would urge great caution and question absolutely everything.
Nell
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Thanks - yes indeed I will be combing over all of this, I have joined the Sussex family history group and will hope to sort it out by spending some time on there.
Best wishes
Bronwen
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Another will!
Jone Bancks of Lindfield, widow, proved 28 January 1617 (or 1618 new calendar), South Malling
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-D1M3-FCZ?i=932&cat=173636
Looking through it - Godmans get a mention
Elenor + Robert Turner (she being daughter of Nicholas, according to his will)
Bit more to go yet!
John
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Great thanks John.
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A helpful hint re the SFHG site. It is a wonderful resource but it does not search on name variants so you have to put in each one separately. eg Bankes will not show Banks etc.
Have fun.
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Yes quite correct a wonderful resource but even though it says 'name variants' it seems to only give the one you have put in. I have found some interesting things today. It is an amazing website - the best of any of this type that I have seen.
many thanks
Bronwen