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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: RodEast on Wednesday 26 September 18 13:39 BST (UK)
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I am seeking information about the parents of Eliza E Quilliam. I know that she was born in the 1st quarter 1918 in West Derby and that the mothers maiden name was given as Risley. She went on to marry Anthony Patrick Feeney, who may have been born in Ireland, in the 4th quarter 1935 in Liverpool North. Any help would be appreciated.
Rod Eastham
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There’s another Eliza E Quilliam marriage in Liverpool, Sep qtr 1940 to Cyril Cottam. Are you sure the 1918 birth is for the same person as the 1935 marriage?
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Births registered QUILLIAM mmn RISLEY (GRO):
(Modified to include deaths)
Dec qtr 1898 West Derby Samuel James Edward
Jun qtr 1903 West Derby William Charles (died Sep qtr 1904 West Derby)
Jun qtr 1905 West Derby John Henry (died Sep qtr 1905 West Derby)
Jun qtr 1906 West Derby Joseph
Sep qtr 1909 Wirral George Ernest
Sep qtr 1912 West Derby Emma Jane
Mar qtr 1915 West Derby Alexander
1911 census 42 Conway Street, West Derby
John QUILLIAM, head, 48, ship's painter
Emma QUILLIAM, wife, 33, married 13yrs, 3 children born alive - 3 living
Samuel QUILLIAM, son, 11
Joseph QUILLIAM, son, 5
George QUILLIAM, son, 2
Samuel DISLEY, father-in-law, 64, widowed, metal planer - iron foundry
Margaret Ann DISLEY, sister-in-law, 19
(all born Liverpool)
If this is your QUILLIAM family the parents are John (born c1863) and Emma (born c1878) and Emma's father was Samuel (born c1847)
Philip
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FreeBMD gives the surname as Quillian. I cannot find a Quilliam/Quillian and Risley marriage anywhere.
Emeltom
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FreeBMD gives the surname as Quillian. I cannot find a Quilliam/Quillian and Risley marriage anywhere.
Emeltom
Nor can I. I had a look for John QUILLIAM (fuzzysearch) marrying Emma (blank) just in case she was a widow but found nothing.
Philip
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1935
QUILLIAM Eliza E
FEENEY Anthony
Kirkdale, St. Athanasius Liverpool
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1891 CENSUS
4 Grove Place Kirkdale
Samuel Risley aged 44 metal plainer born Stockton Heath Cheshire
Margaret wife aged 40 born Liverpool
Mary E aged 17 born Liverpool
Emma Jane aged 9 born Liverpool
Samuel aged 4 born Liverpool
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Emma Jane Risley
born 24th June 1881
baptised 25th September
father Samuel a engineer
mother Margaret
abode Kirkdale
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Emma Jane Risley father Samuel,married William Harrison
Kirkdale 28th November 1898
so something happened before 1901
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Thanks for everything so far. There is a marriage between Emma Jane Harrison (Risley) in 4th qtr 1920 in West Derby to John K Quilliam and the 1939 census confirms this and lists 2 sons George E and Alexander. When you check this back to the 1911 census it says John and Emma have been married for 13 years but I cannot find a marriage reference. It also lists a father in law as Samuel Disley. Now I am even more confused. Any Further advice?
Rod
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Here are John and Emma in 1901 3443/23/38
John Quilliam 39 yrs House Painter b Isle of Man
Emma Quilliam 22 yrs
Samuel Quilliam 3 months
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Here are John and Emma in 1901 3443/23/38
John Quilliam 39 yrs House Painter b Isle of Man
Emma Quilliam 22 yrs
Samuel Quilliam 3 months
But Samuel's birth was registered 1898 ??? Unless it was a different Samuel.
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Unless it should read 3 years and not 3 months
Emeltom
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Thanks for everything so far. There is a marriage between Emma Jane Harrison (Risley) in 4th qtr 1920 in West Derby to John K Quilliam and the 1939 census confirms this and lists 2 sons George E and Alexander. When you check this back to the 1911 census it says John and Emma have been married for 13 years but I cannot find a marriage reference. It also lists a father in law as Samuel Disley. Now I am even more confused. Any Further advice?
Rod
Search for a death of Emma's 1st husband anytime between her 2 marriages. Not an easy task with a common name William Harrison. Try divorce records too. Look for a prior marriage of John Quilliam as well.
1st marriage must have been extremely short-lived. Perhaps it was a marriage of convenience or a "shotgun weddding". Maybe Emma wasn't sure which man was father of Samuel and she married the wrong one. It would be interesting to see Samuel's birth certificate to find out exactly what's on it, when he was born and if John Quilliam was named as father.
Look for prior connections between John Quilliam and Emma's family and William Harrison and Emma's family and between John Quilliam and William Harrison.
A man in my FT died 6 weeks after he married Ann Bonney in 1824. 10 years later his younger brother married a woman called Ann Bonney. No further information so I don't know if it was the same woman.
My grandparents also misrepresented facts about their marriage on 1911 census. They'd both been married before and each had a child from 1st marriage who were on census with my GF's surname.
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Here are John and Emma in 1901 3443/23/38
John Quilliam 39 yrs House Painter b Isle of Man
Emma Quilliam 22 yrs
Samuel Quilliam 3 months
But Samuel's birth was registered 1898 ??? Unless it was a different Samuel.
I had checked already but had another look.
March quarter 1901
Samuel James Edward Quilliam mmn Risley
I can’t see a birth for 1898 ???
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28th November 1898 St Mary’s Kirkdale
William Harrison 22 yrs 14 Summers Gardens, Miller, father James Harrison, Labourer
Emma Jane Risley 18 yrs, 6, Summers Gardens, Father Samuel Risley, Metal Planer
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-896B-T3QL?i=367
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Births registered QUILLIAM mmn RISLEY (GRO):
(Modified to include deaths)
Dec qtr 1898 West Derby Samuel James Edward
Jun qtr 1903 West Derby William Charles (died Sep qtr 1904 West Derby)
Jun qtr 1905 West Derby John Henry (died Sep qtr 1905 West Derby)
Jun qtr 1906 West Derby Joseph
Sep qtr 1909 Wirral George Ernest
Sep qtr 1912 West Derby Emma Jane
Mar qtr 1915 West Derby Alexander
I was just going by the Samuel James Edward registration above.
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I see.
Perhaps just an error in recording -it is the same year and quarter as the marriage.
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Thanks for everything so far. There is a marriage between Emma Jane Harrison (Risley) in 4th qtr 1920 in West Derby to John K Quilliam and the 1939 census confirms this and lists 2 sons George E and Alexander. When you check this back to the 1911 census it says John and Emma have been married for 13 years but I cannot find a marriage reference. It also lists a father in law as Samuel Disley. Now I am even more confused. Any Further advice?
Rod
My wife's grandparents (in Catholic Peru) managed to keep their lack of a marriage secret for nearly 40 years before they finally "made it legal".
So, maybe John and Emma did the same.
Philip
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As has already been said, perhaps too many William Harrisons to check but there is this death
March 1919 West Derby 8b pg 593
William Harrison 44 yrs (abt 1875)
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Thanks for everything but I think I am now out of my depth. The birth certificate of Eliza Ellen Quilliam (27 Nov 1917) Shows the father as JOHN KELLY QUILLIAM which is confirmed on her marriage certificate (21 December 1935) to ANTHONY FEELAN (25 years) with JOHN KELLY QUILLIAM'S profession stated as Decorator. JOHN'S profession is confirmed on the 1939 census as House Painter Retired. The only JOHN KELLY QUILLIAM that I can find has his profession as Gas Fitter. There is a marriage between JOHN KELLY QUILLIAM and EMMA JANE HARRISON {RISLEY) in the 4th qt West Derby 8B 98 (presumably now William Harrison has died) but that is where my trail goes cold.
ELIZA ELLEN QUILLIAM'S marriage certificate shows ANTONY FEENEY'S father as WILLIAM (deceased) (Marine Fireman) and is witnessed by Samuel James Edward Quilliam and Hannah Whittaker but I cannot find any trace of ANTHONY's family open the 1911 census.
Any further advice and help is needed and will be greatly appreciated.
Rod Eastham
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ELIZA ELLEN QUILLIAM'S marriage certificate shows ANTONY FEENEY'S father as WILLIAM (deceased) (Marine Fireman) and is witnessed by Samuel James Edward Quilliam and Hannah Whittaker but I cannot find any trace of ANTHONY's family open the 1911 census.
Have you tried Finny or Finney? Since it's an Irish name search 1911 Irish census too for Antony's family. According to his age at marriage Antony was born by 1911.
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Thanks for everything but I think I am now out of my depth. The birth certificate of Eliza Ellen Quilliam (27 Nov 1917) Shows the father as JOHN KELLY QUILLIAM which is confirmed on her marriage certificate (21 December 1935) to ANTHONY FEELAN (25 years) with JOHN KELLY QUILLIAM'S profession stated as Decorator. JOHN'S profession is confirmed on the 1939 census as House Painter Retired. The only JOHN KELLY QUILLIAM that I can find has his profession as Gas Fitter. There is a marriage between JOHN KELLY QUILLIAM and EMMA JANE HARRISON {RISLEY) in the 4th qt West Derby 8B 98 (presumably now William Harrison has died) but that is where my trail goes cold.
Heywood found John & Emma & Samuel on 1901 census reply #10. John's p.o b. was Isle of Man.
You said in your reply #9 that you had John & Emma & family in 1911. Edit. Philip posted 1911 census in reply #2.
Philip posted birth registrations of Quilliam children until 1915 in reply #2.
You have John's marriage to Emma in 1920
You have found John Quilliam on 1939 Register.
That seems to be a well-defined trail. What is it that you cannot find?
Other records between 1911-1939 may be war service, electoral registers, ratepayers lists and trade directories. Edit. Emma should have been eligible to vote from 1921.
Who was the John Quilliam, occcupation gas-fitter; where and when did you find him?
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I can't find Antony Feeny with father William on 1911 Irish census. Neither can I find an Irish birth registration for Antony Feeny within 3 years on 1910. There was an unnamed Feeny but he died same day he was born.
If Antony is on 1939 Register his country of birth should be stated if he was born outside Britain.
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With regards Anthony Feeney I am looking for any material other than his marriage certificate which I have. I cannot find him on the 1939 census but this may be because he was at sea.
With regards to Emma Jane Risley I have a possible scenario which I am trying to unravel. John Quilliam married Agnes Mary Hall or Briggs on 28 Sept 1891 in St Simons Church Liverpool. They appear on the 1891 census where John is given as a Gas Fitter. I can't find any further reference to John born 1858. Agnes, however, appears on both the 1901 and 1911 census with her daughter and although she is stated married there is no husband. Emma married William Harrison in 1898 but there are no further references to them. The possibility is that John and Eliza were living together unable to marry until 1920 when both William Harrison and Agnes Mary Quilliam had died. Just a thought.
Rod Eastham
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Thanks for everything but I think I am now out of my depth.
Slow down, take a deep breath (as long as your head is above water ;D ;D) and let the information float around in your mind. It will settle into a pattern.
Philip
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I second Philip's advice.
Your enquiry was about the parents of Eliza Quilliam. Her parents have been identified. documentation has been located which proves connections. You have a time-frame of key events for Emma, her mother. You have a likely scenario of John & Emma's life together. There are gaps to fill but some information may never be known.
John Quilliam's occupation was consistent as painter/decorator from 1901 until old age.
When searching for him before 1901 keep in mind that:
a.) there may have been several men named John Quilliam;
b.) there may have been more than one man named John Kelly Quilliam; after all, your man was born in the Isle of Man and there's a song about "Kelly from the Isle of Man";
c.) spelling of Quilliam may have been incorrectly recorded/ transcribed in some sources; it might not even begin with Q!
d.) you know he crossed the water once; it might not have been the only time he travelled.
John Quilliam, the gas fitter and the other John Quilliam marriage may be red herrings.
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With regards Anthony Feeney I am looking for any material other than his marriage certificate which I have. I cannot find him on the 1939 census but this may be because he was at sea.
I suggest that if you need help with Anthony Feeney that you start a new thread with his name in title. This might attract people who know something or can suggest lines of enquiry. A surname like Feeney may lead back to Ireland. Put a link from your new thread to this one and vice-versa.
Concentrating on Elizabeth Quilliam's parents and Quilliam and Risley families on this thread makes it easier for people to follow. Otherwise you won't be the only person feeling out of their depth. :)
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there may have been more than one man named John Kelly Quilliam; after all, your man was born in the Isle of Man and there's a song about "Kelly from the Isle of Man";
I've just looked up John Quilliam name on census 1841-1891. Predominantly Isle of Man. Therefore more than one John Quilliam having middle name Kelly after mother or grandmother to differentiate them is plausible. They wouldn't always need to use the middle name after they left the island. Another possibility is that they were illegitimate, born to a Kelly mother and that Quilliam was name of father or stepfather. Alternatively, the mother was Quilliam and father was Kelly, mother hoping to marry Mr. Kelly and intending to drop Quilliam in favour of Kelly as child's surname. Oh what fun! Hopefully your John Quilliam won't be as complicated as that.
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Thanks for the advice. Time to take a break and regroup.
Rod Eastham
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John Kelly Quilliam was born in 1858 in Liverpool the son of Joseph Quilliam (born in the Isle of Man) and Eliza Kelly (born in the Isle of Man) who were married on 06 May 1847 in Braddan, Isle Of Man,England. At the time of his marriage he was listed as a widower but as yet I have not unravelled his marriage history.
Emma Jane Risley married William Harrison on 28 Nov 1898 in Walton on the Hill his father being James Harrison and Emma's father being Samuel Risley. I do not know what happened between 1898 and 1920 but William Harrison died March 1919 1st qtr West Derby, Lancashire, England 8B 593.
Emma Harrison (Risley) married John Kelly Quilliam on 05 December 1920 in Kirkdale, Lancashire, Emma (widow), John (widower). John's father is Joseph Quilliam and Emma's father is Samuel Risley.
I have posted a new topic regarding Joseph Quilliam.
Thank you for your guidance and help.
Rod Eastham