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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: Airdriehunter on Friday 28 September 18 14:59 BST (UK)
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I am searching for an Edith/Ada/Edia Grant, possibly illegitimate. I don't know who her mother was and I can not find a birth anywhere that would fit her profile. Born abt 1903 re 1911 census mentioned as grand daughter - house 25 in Maphoner (Latbirget, Armagh). I have her death date and know that she was brought up by her aunt Lizzie also in census.
I have found 6 Grant children of Patrick Grant and Margaret Hanratty, some are not mentioned on either census. the couple had 8 children and 4 survived according to 1911 census. Any help would be appreciated. :)
Mary 1881
Catherine 1884
Ann 1886.
Elizabeth 1889
James 1891
Thomas 1897
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LINK
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Latbirget/Maphoner/303652/
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LINK TO Maphoner WITH 4 GRANT HOuSEHOLDS
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Latbirget/Maphoner/
Have you checked the others to see if there is a child missing from one of them??
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Doing this search gives 0 results
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Civil Reg Birth results for Grant from 1903 to 1904 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ms8/
Checked those at the 6 Districts for Armagh... don't see her!
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Here is the 1901 census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Latberget/Maphoner/1033366/
Elizabeth Hanratty is the head of the household with the others being nephews and nieces (Although some would be in law and other great nephews and nieces)
Patrick Grant married Margaret Hanratty in 1881
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1881/11000/8021873.pdf
According to the 1911 census, they had 8 children , 4 still living - and only 3 living with them on the census
Have you found all 8 children?
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Latbirget/Maphoner/303656/
There is a nephew Arthur Grant living with this couple - could this be a brother of Edia?
There is a Mary Grant, aged 21, single living in Waterloo, Lancashire in 1911 from Meighfoner, Armagh
Census: Class: RG14; Piece: 22310
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Thanks everyone, I have only found 6 children. I found a few documents on proni registered in Newry
I think their church parish would have been Forkhill. Yes one child is missing from the 1911 census so perhaps Edith's mother or father is working elsewhere. Any ideas why there would be no birth records on proni for the two other children and the grandchild Edith? Or is it a case of looking harder? They were married in 1881 and lived at same address -Cargin Silverbridge. Thanks
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I did a search for the children
Mary - 21 Sept 1881
Catherine - 13 March 1884
Ann - 20 Apr 1886
Elizabeth - 21 September 1889
James - 15 July 1891
Thomas - 22 June 1897
of which we have Lizzie, James and Thomas in the census
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I do know the grand daughter Edia/Edith was looked after and brought up by Lizzie Grant. She was burried with them as well. It's possible that she could have been born in England but no family stories of a brother or England. I think this girl was alone with her Grandparents. Are there parish records on roots ireland, NLIor elsewhere for the years 1891-1904? I'm not sure what parish, would it be Mullaghbawn. ::) regards
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Thanks Cwellan, that leaves Mary,Catherine or Anne to be the mother of Edia or one of the two children I don't have?
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I do know the grand daughter Edia/Edith was looked after and brought up by Lizzie Grant. She was burried with them as well. It's possible that she could have been born in England but no family stories of a brother or England. I think this girl was alone with her Grandparents. Are there parish records on roots ireland, NLIor elsewhere for the years 1891-1904? I'm not sure what parish, would it be Mullaghbawn. ::) regards
And never married??
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If Lizzie Grant was 21 in 1911 and Edith 8 - then she could actually be Lizzie's daughter?
she would be very young, but theoretically possible
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Have you looked for Marriages for any of the others, to see if she is a Witness at any??
I know Witnesses aren't always relatives! But you might get clues....
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Cwellan, the missing child on census must be one of the first three girls, Ann,Catherine or Mary but could also be one of the two children missing? Hallmark, I will check out the other Grants in the area but I don't think Edith had anyone as she was taken from the farm in later yearsto livenwith her aunt Lizzie. Lizzie couldn't have been the mother either as she was very young - 12. I have no idea? They lived in Cargin, silverbridge I presume this is the same place as the census. Would this be the Mullaghbawn parish? The couple Margaret and Patrick Grant married in 1881 in the same parish and had their first child the same year so I think they always lived at the same address. Perhpas they never registered all their children but don't know why the baptisms are not there. I tried searching for marriages but couldn't find any just Elizabeths.
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In Ireland, the place of residence will usually just be a townland, so Cargin, isn't a house or a street but an area, so will have more than one family in it
Here is the details of the parish of Mullghbawn (Forkhill)
http://www.igp-web.com/armagh/civilparishes/ForkillCP.htm
Unfortunately marriages and baptisms are only available until 1878/1879 online
Here is the death of Margaret Grant -
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1918/05175/4428345.pdf
Have you looked for deaths for the children?
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Daughter Catherine died 1897, aged 13
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1897/05859/4660717.pdf
This is most likely Ann dying in 1903, aged 16
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05665/4595512.pdf
This could be her in 1901 - http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Tandragee_Rural/Terryhoogan/1021124/
I would look for a death and maybe a will for Patrick Grant?
Also - do you know if Lizzie and Edith were living in Carrigans on 1939 - if you know where the house is you can ask for the details of them and other household members - and the DoB for Edith which could help you find her?
If Edith was illegitimate, she may have been born in a workhose, but it probably be Newry, maybe Castleblayney so you should still see the birth
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Thanks Cwellan, that leaves Mary,Catherine or Anne to be the mother of Edia or one of the two children I don't have?
Only if they didn't marry and had a child....
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Hi Hallmark, Elizabeth Grant did marry in 1919 and had children. I doubt she was the mother of Edith.
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Cwellan, I only found the death for Margaret and I also know thT Elizabeth Hanratty died in 1912. Haven't started looking for the others in the household yet. I will search for the boys first as the girls may have married. Thankyou
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Cwellan, that's amazing. That is definitely Annie's death. Yes I will have to cipher through them one by one for marriages and death. I thought it was just me that couldn't find Edith's birth. I also had a good look on proni to no avail. I have Hanratty's will but haven't looked for Patrick Grant's yet that I can remember. Thankyou for all the help.
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Cwellan, that's amazing. That is definitely Annie's death. Yes I will have to cipher through them one by one for marriages and death. I thought it was just me that couldn't find Edith's birth. I also had a good look on proni to no avail. I have Hanratty's will but haven't looked for Patrick Grant's yet that I can remember. Thankyou for all the help.
Yes....you need to investigate Marriages etc see if she is a Witness at any!!
Might point to correct family etc etc
You don't know if she was illegitimate or not!!
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Hi again Cwellan, I don't know where Carrigans is? Do you mean on the same farm. I know Edith lived in Newry with my great grandmother. But they also only have the same story that the girl was taken in by her Aunt. I just looked through my notes and it looks like Elizabeth Grant inherited the farm from her Aunt Elizabeth Hanratty in 1912. So now even more confusing and unusual. Elizabeth Grant's parents were both alive at this time. Her aunt Hanratty was a widow, I'm presuming Hanratty was her maiden name and that she was Margaret Grants sister. Margaret was a Hanratty. But perhaps Elizabeth was a Grant married to a Hanratty. It's possible as both common names in The area. Anyway i will have to find the will and research it again. :)
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You are correct Hallmark, I don't know if Edith is illegitimate. She could have been an orphan either. I Heard of one case that they thought their sibling wwas illegitmate but turned out to have been adopted and no relative of the family at all. So stranger things can happen when it comes to family history. Thankyou all and good evening.
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Hi again Cwellan, I don't know where Carrigans is? Do you mean on the ame farm. I know Edith lived in Newry with my great grandmother. But they also only have the same story that the girl was taken in by her Aunt. I just looked through my notes and it looks like Elizabeth Grant inherited the farm from her Aunt Elizabeth Hanratty in 1912. So now even more confusing and unusual. Elizabeth Grant's parents were both alive at this time. Her aunt Hanratty was a widow, I'm presuming Hanratty was her maiden name and that she was Margaret Grants sister. Margaret was a Hanratty. But oerhaps Elizabeth was a Grant married to a Hanratty. It's possible as bo th common names in The area. Anyway i will have to find the will and research it again. :)
So why not check for Marriages for these people and see what is what?
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I just looked through my notes and it looks like Elizabeth Grant inherited the farm from her Aunt Elizabeth Hanratty in 1912. So now even more confusing and unusual. Elizabeth Grant's parents were both alive at this time.
Erm, the will says the small farm of c3 acres was left to Patrick Grant. A James Grant was one of the witnesses to the will. Lizzie Grant was one of those who obtained probate, so was an executor/administrator of the will.
Valuation Revision book actually shows Patrick Grant taking over from Elizabeth Hanratty in 1907.
It also looks in Revision Books, that a James Hanratty took over the property in 1886, then Elizabeth Hanratty in 1889.
A James Hanratty, aged 61, of Maphoner died 15th October 1886. His widow, Elizabeth, registered the death. Appears under Newry district.
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A James Hanratty married a Betty McCoy, both of Meighfoner (as transcribed), on 10 Dec 1876.
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000632595#page/1/mode/1up
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Thankyou Scotsmum, I will take a look at it.
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Have you looked at Grants marrying Hanrattys?
There are at least 2....
Marriage results for Hanratty of Newry http://www.rootschat.com/links/01msc/
Then look for Births, Deaths
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I just looked through my notes and it looks like Elizabeth Grant inherited the farm from her Aunt Elizabeth Hanratty in 1912. So now even more confusing and unusual. Elizabeth Grant's parents were both alive at this time.
Erm, the will says the small farm of c3 acres was left to Patrick Grant. A James Grant was one of the witnesses to the will. Lizzie Grant was one of those who obtained probate, so was an executor/administrator of the will.
Valuation Revision book actually shows Patrick Grant taking over from Elizabeth Hanratty in 1907.
It also looks in Revision Books, that a James Hanratty took over the property in 1886, then Elizabeth Hanratty in 1889.
A James Hanratty, aged 61, of Maphoner died 15th October 1886. His widow, Elizabeth, registered the death. Appears under Newry district.
Yes Scotsmum,I just found that Pat Grant took over the farm. I have the will image. I don't know why I had Lizzie as inheriting! Thanks for the marriage record info. On James Hanratty. I will look it up now.
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A James Hanratty married a Betty McCoy, both of Meighfoner (as transcribed), on 10 Dec 1876.
https://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000632595#page/1/mode/1up
Scotsmum, I had no luck finding this record in proni. I see she was previously married and her maiden name was Morgan. Oh why are none of the records showing up online on Proni. ??? ???
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Are they on Civil Reg??
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Are they on Civil Reg??
No, I can't find this couple either. I'm having no success with the civil documents at all with this family. They should be registered. I've tried a lot of variations and using only surnames. :-\
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it doesn't help that early Marriages don't have Images yet...... rumoured to be online November!
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the 3 marriages above them on the NlI record are registered on this page
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1876/11184/8098053.pdf
Betty McCoy nee Morgan Bridget ? 1870
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1870/11391/8182538.pdf
scratch that marriage appear to be still together 1880
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/cert_amends/cert_1880/2058838a.pdf