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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: WillowG on Monday 01 October 18 21:10 BST (UK)
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In our search through Aylmer wills we have now reached the one of Roger Aylmer of 1497 :)
It is my hope that it may throw some light as to how the following are related:
Edmund Aylmer and his wife Elizabeth Tyrrell, parents of Frances (d. 1540) and Anne.
We have Thomas and Robert Aylmer, gentlemen, sons of ? Aylmer and his wife Elizabeth de Wood, sister of John at Wood, whose widow was Margaret.
We do have a Thomas Aylmer who married a Rose Jenney (b.1474). It is probable that he was the son of a Roger Aylmer. Could it be Roger Aylmer who married Elizabeth de Wood and was father of the above?
Robert Aylmer's son Alexander married Anne. Alexander was the father of William, Frances - who married Christopher Thetford, Bridget - who married Stephen Rookwood, Elizabeth, Honour, Ursula and Mary.
Frances Aylmer the Elder mentions the child Frances Aylmer the Younger in her will of 1540 and refers to her as 'cousin'.
There is great overlap in the social circles of Frances Aylmer the Elder and Bishop John Aylmer, the tutor of Lady Jane Grey.
Edmund Aylmer, Roger Aylmer and Thomas Aylmer are mentioned together in about 1486 - Brothers?
'Plaintiffs: Edmund Aylmer, esquire. Defendants: William Paston. Subject: Detention of bonds between Roger and Thomas Aylmer and complainant of the one party, and Harry Straunge, Thomas Drury, and John Sharnburgh, of the other.'
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7452975
Laurence Ailmer, John Ailmer and Thomas Ailmer are mentioned together in 1488 - Brothers?
'1488 [...] 4 Henry VII County of Essex [...] 33. Mich. Laurence Ailmer, John Ailmer, Thomas Ailmer, John Barley, Robert Godewyn and William Hampton, pl. Richard Pake and Elizabeth his wife, def. 1 messuage, 24 acres of land, 3 acres of meadow and 18d. rent in Eisonham. Def. quitclaimed to pl. and the heirs of Laurence. Warranty as in 10. Cons. 201.'
http://esah1852.org.uk/images/pdf/ffines/F1400000.pdf
We know that Sir Laurence Aylmer's father was Thomas Aylmer of Ellesnam/Allesham/Elsham in Essex, and that Sir Laurence also had a brother named Thomas Aylmer, gentleman. Could Sir Laurence have been a nephew of Roger Aylmer, and had a brother named John?
Bishop John Aylmer's father is said to have been called John.
We also have another John Aylmer, who is mentioned in the will of his uncle Thomas Aylmer of Norwich in 1500.
Could either of these two John Aylmers be the father of the bishop?
I am hoping that this will might give the answer to some of the questions above :)
The full will can be found here:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39Z-SSTC-F?i=591&cat=278818
Thank you so much in advance! :) :) :)
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Frances Aylmer the Elder mentions the child Frances Aylmer the Younger in her will of 1540 and refers to her as 'cousin'.
Just to clarify: the term cousin shows kinship, but (like today) it doesn't in itself describe how close the family connection was (it could include third cousin, second cousin once removed etc.)
Literary trivia: in Shakespeare's historical plays a Royal could refer to a noble or a foreign royal as "cousin", but it might take a genealogical genius to figure out if there was a link through blood or marriage.
Philip
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At the right hand side:
Testm Rogeri
Aylemer arm
geri defunct
In the name of god Amen I Roger Aylemer Squyer the vijth day
of Octobre in the yere of our lord god a m^l iiii lxxxxij at Norwich make my(ne)
testament & last wyll in forme ensuying first I commende my(ne) sowle to god
allmyghty our blyssed lady seint mary vuygyn & to all the holy seintes And my(ne)
Body to be burye w(i)t(h)in the p(er)ymite halowed of the place of the fryers minors
in Norwich And to the hygh Awter of the churche of seint Stephyn in Nor
wich I beqweth vj s viij d And to the emendyng of the same churche I beqweth
vj s viij d And to the hygh Awt(er) of the churche of seint margaret of ?ynetys
hale I beqweth xiij s iiij d And to the hygh Awter of the churche of Catyngton
in Nuff I beqweth vj s viijd Itm I beqweth to the warden and covent of the
fryers mynors in Nor(wich) that is to say to the emendyng of the bokys & vestimentes
xl s & vj s viij d also to the same fryers for a pytannce (?) And I wull that
iche of the iiij fryers that shall bere my body to the churche of the said fryers
Funny how things crop up isn't it Willow?
I started reading a book yesterday - a novel set in about 1592 - and all of a sudden I read a sentence which mentioned 'Bishop Aylmer'!
I thought, I know that name! :)
He was evidently (according to the authour of the book - who seems to have done his homework on this time period very thoroughly), ' a fiercely Protestant ' Bishop, who wanted to 'ensure no Roman Catholic teachings' found their way into a school curriculum - and was all for corporal punishment to make sure it didn't!
How different to the Aylmer of this will, a hundred years earlier, who was obviously a devout Catholic.
I'll let you know if he crops up again and what deductions the writer has made about him! :)
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A few suggestions for Snippet #1:
In the margin, it is armi / geri = armigeri (genitive singular of armiger = esquire).
Technically, I also think the next word is contracted and should be read as defunct(i).
In the date, the middle grouping is cccc = 4 x 100.
...seint mary virgyn... It's the same r as in buryed on the next line.
In the last line, I believe the word is written p(ro)cymcte and means precinct.
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A few suggestions for Snippet #2:
I think it is: ...seint margaret of Tyvetyshale...
Also, the next church mentioned is in Suff ie Suffolk.
ADDED:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivetshall_St_Margaret
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Thank you so much, Goldie and HD!!! :) :D :) Brilliant work, as always!
At the right hand side:
Testm Rogeri
Aylemer arm
geri defunct
In the name of god Amen I Roger Aylemer Squyer the vijth day
of Octobre in the yere of our lord god a m^l iiii lxxxxij at Norwich make my(ne)
testament & last wyll in forme ensuying first I commende my(ne) sowle to god
allmyghty our blyssed lady seint mary vuygyn & to all the holy seintes And my(ne)
Body to be burye w(i)t(h)in the p(er)ymite halowed of the place of the fryers minors
in Norwich And to the hygh Awter of the churche of seint Stephyn in Nor
wich I beqweth vj s viij d And to the emendyng of the same churche I beqweth
vj s viij d And to the hygh Awt(er) of the churche of seint margaret of ?ynetys
hale I beqweth xiij s iiij d And to the hygh Awter of the churche of Catyngton
in Nuff I beqweth vj s viijd Itm I beqweth to the warden and covent of the
fryers mynors in Nor(wich) that is to say to the emendyng of the bokys & vestimentes
xl s & vj s viij d also to the same fryers for a pytannce (?) And I wull that
iche of the iiij fryers that shall bere my body to the churche of the said fryers
Funny how things crop up isn't it Willow?
I started reading a book yesterday - a novel set in about 1592 - and all of a sudden I read a sentence which mentioned 'Bishop Aylmer'!
I thought, I know that name! :)
He was evidently (according to the authour of the book - who seems to have done his homework on this time period very thoroughly), ' a fiercely Protestant ' Bishop, who wanted to 'ensure no Roman Catholic teachings' found their way into a school curriculum - and was all for corporal punishment to make sure it didn't!
Yes, *coughs*, apparently he wasn't that nice of a bishop :)
I sort of had this nice picture in my head *g*
http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss58/SonjaMarie77/life/arthurmee-lady-jane-grey.jpg
His later behaviour and beliefs were, eh, somewhat of a surprise ;D
Isn't that so funny though, when you come over a familiar name, and are like, 'Hey! I know that guy!' because of things like this? :) :) :)
That has happened to me too!
How different to the Aylmer of this will, a hundred years earlier, who was obviously a devout Catholic.
Isn't that strange? Life makes fools of us all ... (Or at least of these guys *g*) Life and history really are peculiar things, aren't they? ::) :) 8)
I'll let you know if he crops up again and what deductions the writer has made about him! :)
Please do!!! What a funny coincidence! :) :) :)
churche of Catyngton
Compare with this snippet from the will of Alexander Aylmer 52 years later in 1549:
Also I give to will(ia)m my sonne and heyre my mansion howse at Catington with all the Landes woodes medowes pasturs with thappurtun(an)ces that was my fathers Robt Aylemers
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=800382.9
A few suggestions for Snippet #2:
I think it is: ...seint margaret of Tyvetyshale...
Also, the next church mentioned is in Suff ie Suffolk.
ADDED:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivetshall_St_Margaret
Compare again with this line in the snippet from the will of Alexander Aylmer 52 years later in 1549:
Itm I wull that Anne my wyff shall have all my landes and Ten(emen)ts lying in Tyvetshale Saint Margaret in the cowntie of Norff -
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=800382.0
I think definitely we are talking about the same family! :)
Thank you so much again!!! This is utterly wonderful! :) :D :) I am so grateful!
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Frances Aylmer the Elder mentions the child Frances Aylmer the Younger in her will of 1540 and refers to her as 'cousin'.
Just to clarify: the term cousin shows kinship, but (like today) it doesn't in itself describe how close the family connection was (it could include third cousin, second cousin once removed etc.)
Literary trivia: in Shakespeare's historical plays a Royal could refer to a noble or a foreign royal as "cousin", but it might take a genealogical genius to figure out if there was a link through blood or marriage.
Philip
LOL, yes, I will keep that in mind :) :) :) Thank you! I was once driven almost to distraction by someone who was described as a 'nephew' in the census. The head of the household had no siblings, and a nephew of his (late) wife was a no-go as well. As it turned out, it was an archaic use of the word nephew meaning 'grandson' ::) :D :)
I think that it what lead me to this site in the first place, lololol!
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Snippet #3:
...mino(r)s have for hys labo(r) xxd It(e)m I beqweth to ye rep(ar)ac(i)on & amendyng of
ye chirche of ye seid freeres and to pray for m(e)y sowle & to sey a solemp(n)e
dirige and a masse of Requiem yerly in yer p(a)lace be ye space of iiij
yeres next aft(er) m(e)y decesse for m(e)y sowle & m(e)y frendes sowlys viij li
to be payed to ye seid ffryeres and Covent of ye same place as it may
be receyved & take of ye sale of m(e)y place yt I dwell in in Norwich in ye
parysshe of seint Stephyn It(e)m I beqweth to iche of ye oder iij orderes of
ffryeres in Norwich to pray for mey sowle vjs viijd It(e)m to ye pryores of
Carrowe iij s iiij d And to ev(er)y Nunne of ye same place xijd It(e)m I will
yt ffryer John ffyssher of ye seide Covent of ye fryeres myno(r)s be...
yer = their
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Snippet #4:
...m(e)y prest & synge & pray for my sowle be ye space of an hooll yer(e)
next aft(er) m(e)y decesse And in ye same yer(e) by licence of hys warden I wull
he go on pylgrymage for me to ye Courte of Rome And yer go ye stac(i)ons
of Rome and dayly whyll he is ther(e) & disposed I wull yt oon day he saye
a masse for my sowle at Scala celi And anoder at seintes ffabyan and
Bastyan And I wull he have for hys labo(r) & salary xiij m(a)rc(es) to be
payde to hym in fourme folowyng yt ys to sey when he go(e)th forth x m(a)rc(es)
And when he comyth home xl s And yf ye seide ffrere John after
m(e)y decesse may not go & do ye seide pylgrimage and syng & pray as is
aforseid or ellys yf hys warden wyll nat licence hym to doit
I wull yt yen anod(er) honest preste be p(ur)veid be m(e)y executors to doit...
yen = then
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I was just about to post the same thing HD - you pipped me to it. :)
I was looking up the church he wanted the priest to go to.
I wonder if it could have been this one?
http://www.saintsinrome.com/2013/08/st-fabian.html
The church is San Sebastiano Fuori Le Mura, and there is a chapel to St Fabian in it - he was a 3rd Century Pope.
So saint Fabian and saint Sebastian? - Saint Fabyan and Bastyan in the will.
And Scala Sancta?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scala_Sancta
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Thank you so much, HD and Goldie! :) :D :) I so love coming back here and seeing your input!
It(e)m to ye pryores of Carrowe iij s iiij d And to ev(er)y Nunne of ye same place xijd
The Aylmers were awfully fond of the nuns at Carrow, weren't they? :) Perhaps that's why they had to go on so many pilgrimages ... *g* Sorry, that wasn't funny. *coughs*
I wull he go on pylgrymage for me to ye Courte of Rome And yer go ye stac(i)ons of Rome and dayly whyll he is ther(e) & disposed I wull yt oon day he saye a masse for my sowle at Scala celi And anoder at seintes ffabyan and Bastyan
So Roger Aylmer was the one who started the rootin'-tootin' Aylmer will tradition of sending people on pilgrimages! No barefoot ones yet, but then again it's early days yet will-wise.
Though that was probably the next guy's addition in order to top this one's pilgrimage. *g*
I was just about to post the same thing HD - you pipped me to it. :)
I was looking up the church he wanted the priest to go to.
I wonder if it could have been this one?
http://www.saintsinrome.com/2013/08/st-fabian.html
The church is San Sebastiano Fuori Le Mura, and there is a chapel to St Fabian in it - he was a 3rd Century Pope.
So saint Fabian and saint Sebastian? - Saint Fabyan and Bastyan in the will.
And Scala Sancta?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scala_Sancta
Ooh, yes, I believe you must be right! That was super-interesting! :) :D :) Well done finding those!
Thank you so much the both of you!!! :) :-* :) This is wonderful! I am loving these wills :)
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and I wull he have for hys labo(r) A ? is beforseid be the discression
of m(e)y executors. Itm I require Robt Wode late of Colton & John
palin of Costesey m(e)y feoffes of and in all m(e)y landes & ten(ement)es
w(i)t(h) the p(er)tenintes in Catyngton Brundysshe & Wylbey in the Counte
of Suff th(a)t ther make a state(?) therof in fee sympyll to m(e)y executors or
to suche persones as ther shall name when so en ther or eny of them
therto be required And I wyll th(a)t w(i)t(h) the Issues & the p(ro)fyghtes thereof co-
myng m(e)y executors do fynde an honest preste to synge for m(e)y sowle
And m(e)y frendes sowlys be the space of ij yeres as soon as it can be done aft
m(e)y decesse. And Also w(i)t(h) the seid Issues & p(ro)fyghtes m(e)y executors do paye
All the dettes whiche I owe and are comprysed in a byll herto Annexed
to And Also th(a)t w(i)t(h) the seide Issues an yerday(?) for my sowle & for the sowlyes
of m(e)y fader & moder yerly be kept in the churche of Catyington be the space
of xx th yeres next aft m(e)y decesse And more and whane my executors of
the seid Issues & p(ro)fyghtes have receyved xvj iiij s for the exhibicon of
the seid preste syngying & preying as is beforseid by the space of the seid
ij yeres And when my executors have founde the meane th(a)t m(e)y seid
dettes shall be payde and m(e)y yerday kept as is beforseid that which I wull
Couldn't find what a 'yerday' was - no doubt HD will know if the letters are not that.
Obviously some sort of special prayer for him after his burial.
They certainly kept the clergy in business didn't they?!
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yerday = 'yearday', the anniversary of his death/burial.
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Just a few minor suggestions to add to goldie's work on Snippet #5:
Line 1: ...as is beforeseid...
Line 5:
You are right with ...make a state therof...
We had this phrase in one of the earlier wills. Sometimes it's written astate.
Lines 5 and 6:
The word you have as yer or ther actually ends with an i plus a flourish (although it looks very like an r).
So it is: yei/thei = they
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yerday = 'yearday', the anniversary of his death/burial.
Good thinking Bookbox. :)
Not come across this before.
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Just a few minor suggestions to add to goldie's work on Snippet #5:
Line 1: ...as is beforeseid...
Well how silly!
I was trying to make it into some sort of monetary payment for his trouble, and there it is a simple 's'.
Doh!
The capital A didn't help!
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Thank you so much, Goldie, Bookbox and HD!!! :) :D :) I truly don't know what I would have done without you! :) :-* :)
Itm I require Robt Wode late of Colton
Robt Wode = Robert Wood? = A relative of Elizabeth de Wood and John at Wood?
Itm I require Robt Wode late of Colton & John palin of Costesey m(e)y feoffes of and in all m(e)y landes & ten(ement)es w(i)t(h) the p(er)tenintes in Catyngton Brundysshe & Wylbey in the Counte
of Suff th(a)t ther make a state(?) therof in fee sympyll to m(e)y executors or to suche persones as ther shall name when so en ther or eny of them therto be required
What does this part mean? Are they his 'feoffes'? Isn't that usually a part of land? :) I presume it means a bequest of some kind to the penitents (prisoners?) of Catington and Wilby, but I can't make the sentence out?
Couldn't find what a 'yerday' was - no doubt HD will know if the letters are not that.
Obviously some sort of special prayer for him after his burial.
They certainly kept the clergy in business didn't they?!
LOL, yes! I wonder if the clergy actually did this? If they kept detailed lists and actually held masses for people for years? I think in one will the testator wanted masses to be said for him and his wife for a hundred years ... :)
yerday = 'yearday', the anniversary of his death/burial.
That is super-fascinating! Never knew this, thank you! :)
m(e)y fader & moder
And of course he makes no reference to what his parents are actually called ::) I say, here we go to all of this trouble, finding the will, cutting it down into appropriate snippets, transcribing/translating/deciphering said snippets, and then people can't even be bothered to name people properly! I for one think it's abominably rude *g* Though I suppose he might be excused in that he knew them ;D
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Also th(a)t w(i)t(h) the seide Issues an yerday(?) for my sowle & for the sowlyes
of m(e)y fader & moder yerly be kept in the churche of Catyington be the space
of xx th yeres next aft m(e)y decesse
Loads more references to Catyngton. It seems to be were his parents are buried, or at least it can be interpreted that way, based on the above ...
And one to:
Wylbey in the Counte of Suff
We have encountered Wilby in connection with the Aylmers before. Some new and some old information below :)
HINDRINGHAM
The capital lordship of this town belonged to the Bishop of Elmham; and Ailmer the Bishop held it with 4 carucates of land in King Edward's reign.
William Beaufoe was lord of it, and Bishop of Thetford, at the survey. In Ailmer's time 11 villain, 20 borderers, 8 servi, and 4 carucates belonged to it in demean, 5 carucates of the men, or tenants, paunage for 10 swine, a mill, 5 acres of meadow, &c. 160 sheep, 6 vessels, or skeps of bees, and 7 socmen had half a carucate of land, and they ploughed in King Edward's time 2 carucates; it was then valued at 10l. but at the survey at 15l. per ann. and was one leuca long, and one broad, and paid 2s. gelt. (fn. 1)
Bishop Beaufoe had invaded, or seized on and retained as his own right, and a lay fee, 8 freemen who held 3 carucates of land, and 14 borderers who held under the said Bishop Ailmer, who had paunage for 10 swine, 5 acres of meadow, and 5 carucates, valued at 40s. after at 50s. and William Denvers had a moiety of this land. (fn. 2)
Wilby's Manor
Another part of this great episcopal lordship was in the hands of the ancient family of De Burgolion; and Ralph, son of John de Rudham, held half a fee, of Robert Burgolion, in the time of King Henry III. and he of the Bishop; and in the 3d of Edward I. William le Burguillon, of Snaring, was found to hold the same, and to have enfeoffed John de Rudham, of the same, in his life time, for which reason the jury was in doubt whether Walter, his heir, should be in ward to William Lord Bardolf, who held it of the Bishop, or no, this being a greater enfeoffment than Kerdeston manor, from William de Say. Eschaet.
In the 13th of Edward II. Ralph de Rudham, by deed dated, confirmed to Roger Hervi, of this town, certain herbage lands, and John Agar, Joan Hervey, &c. held a quarter of a fee, in the 20th of that King, of Hugh de Burgelyon, and at the said time, John de Wilby, and Joan Hervey held half a fee of Ralph de Astley, and he of the Bishop, which Ralph, son of John de Rudham, formerly had; it appears that Hervey's part was 5 messuages, 84 acres of land, 16 of meadow here, and in Thursford.
In the 5th of Henry VI. Thomas Beaufort Duke of Exeter, died seized (as lord of Wrongey, the Bardolf's estate) of three quarters of a fee here, &c. held by William Shelton, and the fourth part of one held by John Wilby, and in the 22d of Henry VIII. this lordship of Wilby was possessed by John Hall of Halsted, in Lincolnshire.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol9/pp226-231
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Appointment of attorney
Reference: FC 94/L1/2/3
Title: Appointment of attorney
Description: Richard Aylemer, mercer, William Ruston and Thomas Panter, citizens of London, appoint John Aylemer of Wilby attorney to negotiate with Richard Manshep of Worlingworth, and John his son and Geoffrey Esthawe of Wingfield
Date: 5 Nov. 1403
Held by: Suffolk Record Office, Ipswich Branch, not available at The National Archives
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/4daab212-fb37-4954-8129-3d6458d8145b
Conveyance
Reference: FC 94/L1/2/4
Title: Conveyance Description: Richard Aylemer, mercer, William Ruston, Thomas Panter, citisens of London, and John Aylemer of Wilbey, to Richard Manshep of Worlingworth, and John son of Geoffrey Esthawe of Wingfield; one acre of meadow called Clyntmeadow, with appurtenances in Worlingworth
Date: 4 Nov. 1417
Held by: Suffolk Record Office, Ipswich Branch, not available at The National Archives
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/b7d73570-9f59-4b2f-b882-7491e6823d65
Gift, for 20s., by Ralph son of William Aylmer of Wilibi, to Henry son of Warin de Wilibi
Reference: N3/615
Description: Gift, for 20s., by Ralph son of William Aylmer of Wilibi, to Henry son of Warin de Wilibi, of all the land which Warin, his father, held of him in the same vill, with all its liberties and appurtenances within the vill and without; to be held of the donor by the same services as his father Warin had rendered. Homage for this land has been done in Ralph's court at Wilibi, in the presence of Warin, Henry's father, and others of his friends; saving the custom of the vill should the eldest brother of Henry wish to hold the land.
Witnesses: Sir William Wigeyn, William "Clerico" of Wilibi, Henry son of Roger, Robert "albo", Robert "Campione", Roger de Walecote', Richard de Renuton', William (?Farat) Hume; and many others.
Date: No Date [late 13c.]
Held by: Warwickshire County Record Office, not available at The National Archives
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/3d34d36c-2d1e-4209-896e-fad79ca32a31
Thank you so much again!!! Stellar work, as always! :) :D :)
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The capital A didn't help!
Helpful isn't something that these people really ... do. *g*
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be don as hastely as it may resonably be do aft m(e)y decesse than I wull
that m(e)y seid feffes in all m(e)y seid landis and ten(emen)tes with thapp(er)ten(a)nces in the Cout
of Suff make astate thereof to Robt Aylemer m(e)y sone to holde to hym for
terme of hys lyfe w(i)t(h)out impechement of Waste And yf it happen the seid
Robt do gete any Issue male in lawfulle matrimony aft my decesse than
I wull that all m(e) seid landes & ten(emen)tes w(i)t(h) thapp(er)ten(a)ntes in the seid towne of
Suff aft the decesse of the seid Robt remayne to the said Issue male
And to the eyres male of hys body lawfully ^begoton^ And for the defawte of
suche Issue male I wull that all the seid landes & ten(emen)tes with app(er)ten(a)ntes
in the seid Coounte of Suff remayne to Thomas Aylmer my sone
And to the heyres male of hys Body lawfully begoton. And for the de-
fawte of suche Issue lawfully of male of hys body lawfully comy(n)g
I wull that All the seid landes & ten(emen)tes with thapp(er)ten(a)ntes in the seid counte
of Suff remayne to Edmund Aylemer m(e)y sone & to the heyres male of
hys body lawfully comy(n)g And for the defawte of Suche Issue male
of the body of the same Edmud lawfully comy(n)g I wull that all the seid
landes & ten(emen)tes with app(er)ten(a)ntes in the seid Counte of Suff remayne to John
Brampton of Brampton Sone of Thomas Brampton of Brampton
And to the heyers and Assignes of the same John for ever more p(ro)vided
alway that the seid landes & ten(emen)tes with thapp(er)ten(a)ntes in the seid Counte
of Suff in no wyse aft m(e)y decesse remayne to Arthure(?) son of
Sybyll the wyfe of the seide Robert m(e)y sone Also I wull that John Aylmer
m(e)y sone have m(e)y cloos cleped(?) Westfeld with a pyrhtell(?) called lawer
and a Wode called Batemannys Wode lying be Batemansyerd And a
Wouldn't guarantee the 'Bramptons'. That capital letter could be anything!
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Point of interest HD and Bookbox.
Do you think the little curl on the 't' in 'aft' - which occurs quite a lot, could be taken as the sign for 'er', making all the 'aft' words 'after'?
The scribe uses quite a lot of 'curls' at the end of words to show for missing letters.
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Point of interest HD and Bookbox.
Do you think the little curl on the 't' in 'aft' - which occurs quite a lot, could be taken as the sign for 'er', making all the 'aft' words 'after'?
The scribe uses quite a lot of 'curls' at the end of words to show for missing letters.
I think all these should be transcribed as aft(er).
-
Just to follow up some matters raised in goldie's latest:
I agree with Brampton and Arthur(e).
Also agree with the transcription of cleped.
This is a survivor from the Middle English yclept = called/named.
See: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yclept#English
The other word on that line is pyghtell.
See: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/pightle
I read the name of the pyghtell as lawes.
-
Point of interest HD and Bookbox.
Do you think the little curl on the 't' in 'aft' - which occurs quite a lot, could be taken as the sign for 'er', making all the 'aft' words 'after'?
The scribe uses quite a lot of 'curls' at the end of words to show for missing letters.
I think all these should be transcribed as aft(er).
Thanks Bookbox.
It seemed more appropriate.
-
Thank you so much, Goldie, Bookbox and HD!!! You are wonderful! :) :D :) This is great!
to Robt Aylemer m(e)y sone to holde to hym for terme of hys lyfe w(i)t(h)out impechement of Waste And yf it happen the seid Robt do gete any Issue male in lawfulle matrimony aft my decesse than I wull that all m(e) seid landes & ten(emen)tes w(i)t(h) thapp(er)ten(a)ntes in the seid towne of Suff aft the decesse of the seid Robt remayne to the said Issue male And to the eyres male of hys body lawfully ^begoton^ And for the defawte of suche Issue male I wull that all the seid landes & ten(emen)tes with app(er)ten(a)ntes in the seid Coounte of Suff remayne to Thomas Aylmer my sone
And here we have Robert and Thomas! :) Should we then take a wild guess that it was Roger who was married to Elizabeth de Wood and that it indeed was her relative above? We shall see what the rest of the will reveals :)
I wull that All the seid landes & ten(emen)tes with thapp(er)ten(a)ntes in the seid counte of Suff remayne to Edmund Aylemer m(e)y sone
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So Edmund was his son, not his brother! :) :D :) I had not expected to get a relationship between them so neatly confirmed! This was a wholly unexpected treat! :D
So Alexander and Frances Aylmer the Elder were first cousins! And Frances Aylmer the Elder and Frances Aylmer the Younger were first cousins once removed.
Also I wull that John Aylmer m(e)y sone
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A new John!!!!!!!!!!!
Or alternatively:
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The same John!!!!!!!!!!!
Now we have potentially three John Aylmers of the right age to be the Bishop's father :)
John Aylmer, the son of Roger (!!!)
John Aylmer, the nephew of Thomas (probably not the same as the above).
And a John Aylmer mentioned together with Sir Laurence Aylmer and a Thomas Aylmer in 1488 (could be the son of Roger, probably not the nephew of Thomas, who was not of age in 1500).
And any of these could be the John Aylmer of Pulham in 1520 :) Excellent!
And to the heyers and Assignes of the same John for ever more p(ro)vided alway that the seid landes & ten(emen)tes with thapp(er)ten(a)ntes in the seid Counte of Suff in no wyse aft m(e)y decesse remayne to Arthure(?) son of Sybyll the wyfe of the seide Robert m(e)y sone
Ouch.
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Wouldn't guarantee the 'Bramptons'. That capital letter could be anything!
I agree with Brampton and Arthur(e).
I agree that it's Brampton as well! :) :D :)
Allow me to direct your attention to the following entry in the Visitations of Norfolk:
Olyve Aylmer, daughter of Roger Aylmer, married to Thomas Brampton of Brampton (d.1505). Children: Elizabeth, John, Anne
https://archive.org/stream/visitacionievisi32ryew#page/46/search/Aylmer
Olive Aylmer, daughter of Richard Aylmer of Tatenton in Suffolk (same Olive, different first name of father given)
https://archive.org/stream/visitacionievisi32ryew#page/50/search/Aylmer
(I have mentioned before my belief that that Tatington or Tatyngton is Tannington in Suffolk. If you take a look at the record below I think you will agree with me that it is but a short step from Tadyngton to Tatington:
Feoffment
Reference: HD 1538/183/9
Title: Feoffment
Description: 1. Thomas Bernagge, chaplain
John Aylmer of Tunstall
2. George Nycoll of Tadyngton [Tannington]
John Seman sen.
John Gardener of Denyngton [Dennington]
(1) to (2), all their lands and tenements in towns of Wannesden [Wantisden], Chesilford [Chillesford], Butley, Blaxhale [Blaxhall], Tunstall and Rendylysham [Rendlesham]; to hold of chief lords of fees for accustomed services. Witnesses: Edward Rous, esq., Robert Petyte, John Thorn' and many others. Given at Wannesden, 21 May 1 Hen. VII.
Date: 21 May 1486
Held by: Suffolk Record Office, Ipswich Branch, not available at The National Archives)
Thomas Brampton, Esq. eldest son to Robert, was lord here; and in 1489 bought of the prior of Montjoy in Heverlond, the heath and land called Hasock's, and added them to the manor; he married Olive, daughter of Robert Aylmer of Tattington in Suffolk, Esq. and died after 1499; but the memorial of his interment being gone, I cannot fix the time certainly, though he was dead before 1505; but in a window I find:
Brampton impaling Aylmer, arg. on a cross sab. between four Cornish choughs proper five bezants.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol6/pp430-440
In the first south window of the south aisle were three shields of arms: Aylmer impaling Brampton, a defective coat attributed by Kemp to Woods, and Burston. Norris says that the first coat is reversed and belonged to Thomas Brampton of Brampton, Esq., and Olive his wife, daughter of Roger Aylmer of Tatenton (Tattingstone?) in Suffolk, and that the said Thomas flourished in the 1460s. This would correspond with the date of the other glass here. Martin also saw several crowned T’s and A’s in this window.
http://www.cvma.ac.uk/publications/digital/norfolk/sites/taverham/history.html
Thomas Brampton of Brampton was Roger Aylmer's son-in-law and John Brampton of Brampton was his grandson :)
Olive's grandson Robert Brampton (d.1547) of Brampton later marries Joane or Jane Cobbe (d.1558), the daughter of Geoffrey Cobb (d.1538) and his wife Alice, Sir Laurence Aylmer's daughter :)
https://archive.org/stream/visitacionievisi32ryew#page/50/search/Aylmer
https://archive.org/stream/visitacionievisi32ryew#page/78/search/Aylmer
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol6/pp430-440
Their daughter, Olive's great-granddaughter Alice Brampton (d.1595), marries a William Aylmer of Suffolk in 1543.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol6/pp430-440
We have two William Aylmer's of approximately the right generation, Sir Laurence's son William Aylmer, esquire, and Alexander Aylmer's son and heir William Aylmer :)
Of course, we also have this:
Norfolk Record Society Manuscripts
CatalogueRef: NRS 5865, 18D4
Title: Tivetshall. Release. Thomas Brampton of Brampton, Esq. to Thomas Aylmer, Esq. son of Roger Aylmer Esq., John Jenney Esq. and others.
Date: 24 May 1497
Description: Seal tag. Latin.
Level: Piece
Repository: Norfolk Record Office
http://nrocat.norfolk.gov.uk/DServe/DServe.exe?dsqServer=NCC3CL01&dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=Show.tcl&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=95&dsqSearch=%28%28text%29%3D%27Aylmer%27%29
Just to follow up some matters raised in goldie's latest:
I agree with Brampton and Arthur(e).
Also agree with the transcription of cleped.
This is a survivor from the Middle English yclept = called/named.
See: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yclept#English
The other word on that line is pyghtell.
See: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/pightle
I read the name of the pyghtell as lawes.
I loved this so very much :) Words from Middle English! Dialect! Pyghtell is such a cute word :) :) :)
Thank you so much again, all three of you! :) :D :) Reading what you have written is always such a pleasure! :) :-* :)
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Snippet 9
... Cloos conteynyng be estimaceon vj Acr(es) abbuttyng upon ye comon weye
called multon weye in Tytleshale to holde to ye same John And to ye
heyr(es) of hys body lawfully begoton under ye condic(i)on yt he forw(i)t(h) aft(er)
m(e)y decesse by hys dede of Releas sufficient in ye lawe w(i)t(h) hys sealle
insealed relesse all hys right and tytill yt he hathe or may have
in all ye lond(es) and ten(emen)t(es) which I solde to ye owners of ye same lond(es)
in harliston and to yer heyr(es) & assignes for ev(er)mor(e) whan soev(er) he ...
=====
Tittleshall
Harleston
yer = their
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Snippet 10
... therto be required be m(e)y executor(es) And und(er) yis condic(i)on yt he and hys
heyres for ye seid cloos pyghtell wode and cloos in tytteleshale be-
forseid paye yerly to Thomas Aylem(er) hys Brother and hys heyres
vj s viij d of yerly rent forev(er)more orellys discharge ye same Thom(a)s
and hys heyres for ev(er)mor(e) as vj s viij d of yerly Rent yerly payable
to ye cheyf lordys of ye fee for such other lond(es) & ten(amen)t(es) which I have
in Tytteleshale ye which I have assigned to ye same ^Thom(a)s hys^ heyr(es) and assignes
be yis my last wyll And yf ye seid John Deye w(i)t(h)oute heyr(e) of hys body
lawfully comying or yf he wyll nat relesse as is beforseid or ell yf he
wyll nat paye & discharge ye seid Rent of vj s viij d as is beforseid yan
I wull yt ye seid cloos cleped Westfeld w(i)t(h) ye seid pyghtell and wode lying
be Batemanysyerd(es) And ye seide cloos conteynyng vj Acr(es) by estimac(i)on ...
=====
orellys = or else
Deye = die
wyll nat relesse = will not release
yan = than (= then)
cleped = called
-
Thank you so much, Bookbox!!! :) :D :) This was utterly amazing!!!
called multon weye in Tytleshale to holde to ye same John And to ye heyr(es) of hys body lawfully begoton
So John Aylmer was left land in Tivetshall? :) The very same Tivetshall that Bishop John Aylmer is said to have come from? The same Bishop John Aylmer whose father is said to have been a John Aylmer?
Now that is very interesting indeed! :) :) :)
Thomas Aylem(er) hys Brother and hys heyres vj s viij d of yerly rent forev(er)more orellys discharge ye same Thom(a)s and hys heyres for ev(er)mor(e) as vj s viij d of yerly Rent yerly payable to ye cheyf lordys of ye fee for such other lond(es) & ten(amen)t(es) which I have in Tytteleshale ye which I have assigned to ye same ^Thom(a)s hys^ heyr(es) and assignes
If I am understanding the above quote correctly, he also left some land in Tivetshall to John's brother Thomas, which is the land in Tivetshall that was later left to Alexander Aylmer.
I meant to comment on the below in my last post, but I forgot :)
Robt Aylemer m(e)y sone to holde to hym for terme of hys lyfe w(i)t(h)out impechement of Waste And yf it happen the seid Robt do gete any Issue male in lawfulle matrimony aft my decesse than I wull that all m(e) seid landes & ten(emen)tes w(i)t(h) thapp(er)ten(a)ntes in the seid towne of Suff aft the decesse of the seid Robt remayne to the said Issue male And to the eyres male of hys body lawfully ^begoton^ And for the defawte of suche Issue male I wull
It is very strange that we know that Robert did in fact get a son ... I guess we know also now know for that Alexander was born after 1497 :)
which I solde to ye owners of ye same lond(es) in harliston
Batemanysyerd(es)
Searching for Bateman's Yard (without much hope) I got this from a website - I doubt they would mind that I quoted them, since they are a commercial enterprise and I am essentially doing their advertising for them, lololol *g*
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Plus a handful of simply elegant bedrooms
in Grade I listed South Elmham Hall, formerly a bishops' palace.
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Hedging its bets in the quiet, rural and truly ancient borderland area between Bungay & Harleston, Bateman's Barn is curiously both a Suffolk and Norfolk wedding barn venue. You'll find it tucked away on an island by a shady, timeless grove of trees on a conservation-conscious, organic farm. There's everything you need for your indoor or outdoor wedding ceremony & celebrations with our experienced & knowledgeable family team at your service. It’s just perfect, whatever the weather & it is yours to make your own.
-
“the warmth & sheer homeliness of it all made it the perfect venue…”
Bateman’s Barn South Elmham dates from 1270. Now a relaxed and homely Suffolk wedding barn venue with lots of natural light, oak flooring, lime washed wattle daub walls and ancient oak beams. This beautiful flint, brick and timber barn has been carefully restored by its organic farming owners, Nicole and John Sanderson, for future generations to enjoy.
Medieval Bateman’s Barn is licenced for wedding ceremonies and our Secret Garden and ancient grove of trees are just two of the outdoor spots on our historic ‘island’ which are also very popular for outdoor country wedding ceremonies. We have also opened up our home, Grade I listed South Elmham Hall, to provide a relaxed, convenient and comfortable B&B for couples and their wedding guests.
Surrounding the wedding barn are a romantic ruined gatehouse, plus two acres of secluded gardens and woodland and lawns - ideal for garden games, fireworks and our primeval fire pit. There’s also sunny terrace and wildflower meadows - all make amazing locations for outdoor ceremonies and stunning backdrops for those all-important photographs.
http://www.batemansbarnweddings.co.uk/
As we remember, Bishop Ailmer in 1070 was Bishop of Elmham :) You ... literally cannot make this stuff up! This I thought was absolutely incredible :) :D :)
Also, since we know that it was the fashion of the times to name children after your siblings it is not without the realm of possibility that Roger's son John Aylmer could have had a son Edmund, named after his brother, who our Bishop John Aylmer then named his son after ...
And since Roger's son John Aylmer also had a brother named Robert, it is not without the realm of possibility that he could aslo have had a son named Robert, who could be the Sir Robert Aylmer of Aylmer-hall that crops up in the book of Dr. Fuller ...
I am starting to regret expressing my doubts regarding the veracity of their existence in the other thread, since it seems as if I might have to eat my words, lololol.
Thank you so much again, Bookbox!!! :) :D :) You're an absolute star!!! :) :-* :)
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Thomas Aylem(er) hys Brother and hys heyres vj s viij d of yerly rent forev(er)more orellys discharge ye same Thom(a)s and hys heyres for ev(er)mor(e) as vj s viij d of yerly Rent yerly payable to ye cheyf lordys of ye fee for such other lond(es) & ten(amen)t(es) which I have in Tytteleshale ye which I have assigned to ye same ^Thom(a)s hys^ heyr(es) and assignes
If I am understanding the above quote correctly, he also left some land in Tivetshall to John's brother Thomas, which is the land in Tivetshall that was later left to Alexander Aylmer.
In general, that is how I would understand it, but I'm afraid I haven't been following the bequests closely enough to know whether it is exactly the same piece of land that was passed on to Alexander.
Robt Aylemer m(e)y sone to holde to hym for terme of hys lyfe w(i)t(h)out impechement of Waste And yf it happen the seid Robt do gete any Issue male in lawfulle matrimony aft my decesse than I wull that all m(e) seid landes & ten(emen)tes w(i)t(h) thapp(er)ten(a)ntes in the seid towne of Suff aft the decesse of the seid Robt remayne to the said Issue male And to the eyres male of hys body lawfully ^begoton^ And for the defawte of suche Issue male I wull
It is very strange that we know that Robert did in fact get a son ... I guess we know also now know for that Alexander was born after 1497 :)
I think it would be safer to say born after 1492, when the will was written, rather than 1497, when it was proved.
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Snippet #11 (all I have time for at the moment):
...in Tytleshale forseid remayne to elyse m(e)y dowght(er) wyfe of ye seid
Thom(a)s Brampton and to ye heyres of hir body lawfully begoten And
for defawte of suche Issue of hyr body laufully begoten ye seid cloos
called westfeld w(i)t(h) ye seid pyghtell & wode lying by Bateman(n)ysyerdes and
ye seid cloos conteyny(n)g vj Acr(es) in Tytleshale forseid remayne to ye ryght
heyres of ye seide elyse in ffee sympyll for ev(er)more It(e)m I wyll yt ye
seid Thomas Aylem(er) m(e)y soon have all m(e)y od(er) londes & tenementes in
Tytleshale beforeseid to hold to hym hys heyres and assignes forev(er)more
he paying to John Cook of Norwich draper or to hys executores ye xxij
li yt I owe hym for ye place yt I dwell in in Norwich at Suche dayes
as I ^am^ charged to ye seid John Cook for ye seid xxij li yt(e)m I wull yt ye
same londes & tenementes be sold be m(e)y executores and ye mony therof...
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Snippet #12
... comyng disposed to ye helthe of m(e)y sowle It(e)m I wull yt aft(er) yt m(e)y seid
place in Norwich in saint stephyn parysshe in ye which I dwelle wyth
thapp(ur)tennces be sold be m(e)y executor(is) be good advise and helpe of
Thomas Bokenh(a)m Alderman of Norwich It(e)m I wull yt ye Wardeyn
and Covent of ye ffryer minors in Norwich have ye viij li which
I have assigned byfor(e) by this m(e)y p(re)sent wyll as it may growe of
ye sale of ye same place And I beqweth(e) to Anne m(e)y dowghter x m(a)rc(is)
or x li of ye sale of ye same place yf it may be borne And ye re-
men(a)nt of ye mony comying of ye sale of ye same place I wull it be ...
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Thomas Aylem(er) hys Brother and hys heyres vj s viij d of yerly rent forev(er)more orellys discharge ye same Thom(a)s and hys heyres for ev(er)mor(e) as vj s viij d of yerly Rent yerly payable to ye cheyf lordys of ye fee for such other lond(es) & ten(amen)t(es) which I have in Tytteleshale ye which I have assigned to ye same ^Thom(a)s hys^ heyr(es) and assignes
If I am understanding the above quote correctly, he also left some land in Tivetshall to John's brother Thomas, which is the land in Tivetshall that was later left to Alexander Aylmer.
In general, that is how I would understand it, but I'm afraid I haven't been following the bequests closely enough to know whether it is exactly the same piece of land that was passed on to Alexander.
Alright, thanks :) We of course now also have the below quote from HD's transcription of snippet 11:
I wyll yt ye seid Thomas Aylem(er) m(e)y soon have all m(e)y od(er) londes & tenementes in Tytleshale beforeseid to hold to hym hys heyres and assignes forev(er)more
This is the exact quote from Alexander Aylmer's will of 1549 I was thinking about:
Itm I wull that Anne my wyff shall have all my landes and Ten(emen)ts lying in Tyvetshale Saint Margaret in the cowntie of Norff - called Intwoode Batemans and pullents close with all the landes woodes pastures wayes medowes pathes waters com(m)ons and fedinges as before is reputed as p(ar)cell of the same with thappurtenaces To have and to houlde to her duringw her naturall lyff according as she is insured in by the lawe for her joynter And after hir decease then I woll yt shall remayn unto will(ia)m my son(n)e and heyre accordinge to my Uncle Thomas Aylemers wyll.
It is of course almost impossible to state outright that this is exactly the same piece of land, but we are certainly circling around Tivetshall St. Margaret! :)
Robt Aylemer m(e)y sone to holde to hym for terme of hys lyfe w(i)t(h)out impechement of Waste And yf it happen the seid Robt do gete any Issue male in lawfulle matrimony aft my decesse than I wull that all m(e) seid landes & ten(emen)tes w(i)t(h) thapp(er)ten(a)ntes in the seid towne of Suff aft the decesse of the seid Robt remayne to the said Issue male And to the eyres male of hys body lawfully ^begoton^ And for the defawte of suche Issue male I wull
It is very strange that we know that Robert did in fact get a son ... I guess we know also now know for that Alexander was born after 1497 :)
I think it would be safer to say born after 1492, when the will was written, rather than 1497, when it was proved.
That is an excellent, excellent point :) ;D :) Thank you so much, Bookbox :) :D :)
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Thank you so much, HD and Bookbox!!! :) :D :) Wonderful work as always! Getting anywhere with this family would have been utterly impossible without you! :) :-* :)
Snippet #11 (all I have time for at the moment):
...in Tytleshale forseid remayne to elyse m(e)y dowght(er) wyfe of ye seid
Thom(a)s Brampton and to ye heyres of hir body lawfully begoten And
for defawte of suche Issue of hyr body laufully begoten ye seid cloos
called westfeld w(i)t(h) ye seid pyghtell & wode lying by Bateman(n)ysyerdes and
ye seid cloos conteyny(n)g vj Acr(es) in Tytleshale forseid remayne to ye ryght
heyres of ye seide elyse in ffee sympyll for ev(er)more It(e)m I wyll yt ye
seid Thomas Aylem(er) m(e)y soon have all m(e)y od(er) londes & tenementes in
Tytleshale beforeseid to hold to hym hys heyres and assignes forev(er)more
he paying to John Cook of Norwich draper or to hys executores ye xxij
li yt I owe hym for ye place yt I dwell in in Norwich at Suche dayes
as I ^am^ charged to ye seid John Cook for ye seid xxij li yt(e)m I wull yt ye
same londes & tenementes be sold be m(e)y executores and ye mony therof...
Is it possible elyse could be olyve?
More pyghtell :) I love that word! And Thomas Aylmer was definitely left property in Tivetshall! :) :D :) As I speculate upthread, I think this could be the same land Thomas Aylmer left his nephew Alexander and which is mentioned in Alexander Aylmer's will of 1549, 57 years later:
Itm I wull that Anne my wyff shall have all my landes and Ten(emen)ts lying in Tyvetshale Saint Margaret in the cowntie of Norff - called Intwoode Batemans and pullents close with all the landes woodes pastures wayes medowes pathes waters com(m)ons and fedinges as before is reputed as p(ar)cell of the same with thappurtenaces To have and to houlde to her duringw her naturall lyff according as she is insured in by the lawe for her joynter And after hir decease then I woll yt shall remayn unto will(ia)m my son(n)e and heyre accordinge to my Uncle Thomas Aylemers wyll.
The phrasing makes it seem as if it were a little entailed (if one might phrase it like that!) to Alexander's son William after Alexander :)
Snippet #12
... comyng disposed to ye helthe of m(e)y sowle It(e)m I wull yt aft(er) yt m(e)y seid
place in Norwich in saint stephyn parysshe in ye which I dwelle wyth
thapp(ur)tennces be sold be m(e)y executor(is) be good advise and helpe of
Thomas Bokenh(a)m Alderman of Norwich It(e)m I wull yt ye Wardeyn
and Covent of ye ffryer minors in Norwich have ye viij li which
I have assigned byfor(e) by this m(e)y p(re)sent wyll as it may growe of
ye sale of ye same place And I beqweth(e) to Anne m(e)y dowghter x m(a)rc(is)
or x li of ye sale of ye same place yf it may be borne And ye re-
men(a)nt of ye mony comying of ye sale of ye same place I wull it be ...
St Stephen's Church in Norwich
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Stephen%27s_Church,_Norwich
Brass of Thomas Bokenham (d.1460) with mention of his son, also called Thomas Bokenham, who was alderman and progressed to be mayor
http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/brass%20of%20the%20month%20february%202013.html
The Friars Minor of Norwich - List of All the Different Friaries at Norwich - There Were A Lot
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/norf/vol2/pp428-433
And of course he has a daughter Anne that he has not mentioned before ... Of course he has ::) I cannot find anything else about this Anne, as of yet, except of course that Edmund's daughter, Frances Aylmer the Elder's sister Anne, might have been named for her, her aunt :)
Thank you so much, HD and Bookbox!!! :) :D :) I am really having so much fun with this, and I am so grateful for your help!!! :) :-* :)
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Snippet #13:
...disposed be ye good advise of m(e)y executores in p(er)formance of
yis m(e)y last wyll and in other dedes of pyte & m(er)cy It(e)m I beqweth to
Dame Alys Toke Nunne in ye Nunry of Brusyerd xl s to dispose
w(i)t(h)in ye place their by her discresc(i)on It(e)m I beqweth to ye seid Anne
m(e)y dowght(er) a goblet of Sylv(er) w(i)t(h) ye Cover a grete Sylver Spone
a ffethyrbedde iiij peyer of Shetys ij materasses a trannsam(e)* and
ij cov(er)lyghtes And I wull she have sufficient clothyng at m(e)y cost
whan ste she is cladde a Nunne. And whan ye same Anne is p(ro)fessed...
* trannsam(e) - This is in my view the most likely transcription but may not be correct.
If correct, it should mean something which crosses something else, presumably related to bed furnishing.
ADDED:
Brusyerd seems likely to be Bruisyard Abbey in Suffolk, a house of the Poor Clares in the period of the will.
I can't find evidence of Dame Alice Toke. Strict reading says the surname is Toke, but it's possible it could be Coke.
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Is it possible elyse could be olyve?
Not really, no.
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One of the meanings of the word transom is "a strengthening crossbar, in particular one set above a window or door", so maybe in this instance for hanging bed curtains?
Drosybont
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Snippet #13:
...disposed be ye good advise of m(e)y executores in p(er)formance of
yis m(e)y last wyll and in other dedes of pyte & m(er)cy It(e)m I beqweth to
Dame Alys Toke Nunne in ye Nunry of Brusyerd xl s to dispose
ADDED:
Brusyerd seems likely to be Bruisyard Abbey in Suffolk, a house of the Poor Clares in the period of the will.
For what it's worth, I agree, having lived in Bruisyard. Pronounced 'Brooz-yard'.
Carol
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Snippet #13:
...disposed be ye good advise of m(e)y executores in p(er)formance of
yis m(e)y last wyll and in other dedes of pyte & m(er)cy It(e)m I beqweth to
Dame Alys Toke Nunne in ye Nunry of Brusyerd xl s to dispose
w(i)t(h)in ye place their by her discresc(i)on It(e)m I beqweth to ye seid Anne
m(e)y dowght(er) a goblet of Sylv(er) w(i)t(h) ye Cover a grete Sylver Spone
a ffethyrbedde iiij peyer of Shetys ij materasses a trannsam(e)* and
ij cov(er)lyghtes And I wull she have sufficient clothyng at m(e)y cost
whan ste she is cladde a Nunne. And whan ye same Anne is p(ro)fessed...
* trannsam(e) - This is in my view the most likely transcription but may not be correct.
If correct, it should mean something which crosses something else, presumably related to bed furnishing.
ADDED:
Brusyerd seems likely to be Bruisyard Abbey in Suffolk, a house of the Poor Clares in the period of the will.
I can't find evidence of Dame Alice Toke. Strict reading says the surname is Toke, but it's possible it could be Coke.
What a lovely list of goods! And since Anne became a nun, I guess that would explain why I have not seen her mentioned as married :)
I do find an Alice Cook on a list of nuns 42 years later, in the Letters and Papers, probably in connection with the Dissolution of the Monasteries, when it is my understanding that the nuns and friars were pensioned off.
Letters and Papers: Books of the Court of Augmentations, Pages 593-611
Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 14 Part 1, January-July 1539
Also Joan Stokwith, prioress (66s. 8d.) and Eliz. Thymbylby, Joan Wright, Joan Berde, Marg. Thymbelby, Alice Coke, Alice Bowarde, Anne Elwarde, and Eliz. Wright, nuns. 12 Dec.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol14/no1/pp593-611
Snippet #13:
...disposed be ye good advise of m(e)y executores in p(er)formance of
yis m(e)y last wyll and in other dedes of pyte & m(er)cy It(e)m I beqweth to
Dame Alys Toke Nunne in ye Nunry of Brusyerd xl s to dispose
ADDED:
Brusyerd seems likely to be Bruisyard Abbey in Suffolk, a house of the Poor Clares in the period of the will.
For what it's worth, I agree, having lived in Bruisyard. Pronounced 'Brooz-yard'.
Carol
Thank you so much, Carol!
According to the Wikipedia entry for Bruisyard Abbey, The house was suppressed on 17 February 1539. That corresponds rather well with the list of nuns on the date above.
Bruisyard Abbey
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruisyard_Abbey
Is it possible elyse could be olyve?
Not really, no.
That is so strange! The Visitations of Norfolk were very clear on her name being Olyve or Olive ... However, if Roger Aylmer were indeed the Aylmer married to Elizabeth de Wood, a daughter named Elyse would make sense ...
I had been wondering why they did not have a daughter named Elizabeth.
According the Visitations of Norfolk Elyse/Olyve Aylmer and Thomas Brampton had three children, a son - the above-mentioned John, and two daughters, Elizabeth and Ann ...
Thank you so much, HD! How intriguing all of this is! :) :D :)
I wonder what in the world a trannsam(e)* is :)
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I do find an Alice Cook on a list of nuns 42 years later, in the Letters and Papers, probably in connection with the Dissolution of the Monasteries, when it is my understanding that the nuns and friars were pensioned off.
Letters and Papers: Books of the Court of Augmentations, Pages 593-611
Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 14 Part 1, January-July 1539
Also Joan Stokwith, prioress (66s. 8d.) and Eliz. Thymbylby, Joan Wright, Joan Berde, Marg. Thymbelby, Alice Coke, Alice Bowarde, Anne Elwarde, and Eliz. Wright, nuns. 12 Dec.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol14/no1/pp593-611
Willow, those names refer to the Gilbertine Order at the Priory of North Ormsby in Lincolnshire.
See here: https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/lincs/vol2/pp195-196
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That is so strange! The Visitations of Norfolk were very clear on her name being Olyve or Olive ...
Visitations can’t always be relied on. You have already suggested (in your reply #26 above, quoted below) that the Brampton pedigrees are inconsistent there with regard to the name of Olyve Aylmer’s father ...
Allow me to direct your attention to the following entry in the Visitations of Norfolk:
Olyve Aylmer, daughter of Roger Aylmer, married to Thomas Brampton of Brampton (d.1505). Children: Elizabeth, John, Anne
https://archive.org/stream/visitacionievisi32ryew#page/46/search/Aylmer
Olive Aylmer, daughter of Richard Aylmer of Tatenton in Suffolk (same Olive, different first name of father given)
https://archive.org/stream/visitacionievisi32ryew#page/50/search/Aylmer
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I do find an Alice Cook on a list of nuns 42 years later, in the Letters and Papers, probably in connection with the Dissolution of the Monasteries, when it is my understanding that the nuns and friars were pensioned off.
Letters and Papers: Books of the Court of Augmentations, Pages 593-611
Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 14 Part 1, January-July 1539
Also Joan Stokwith, prioress (66s. 8d.) and Eliz. Thymbylby, Joan Wright, Joan Berde, Marg. Thymbelby, Alice Coke, Alice Bowarde, Anne Elwarde, and Eliz. Wright, nuns. 12 Dec.
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/letters-papers-hen8/vol14/no1/pp593-611
Willow, those names refer to the Gilbertine Order at the Priory of North Ormsby in Lincolnshire.
See here: https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/lincs/vol2/pp195-196
Probably not her, then.
Back to the drawing table.
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That is so strange! The Visitations of Norfolk were very clear on her name being Olyve or Olive ...
Visitations can’t always be relied on. You have already suggested (in your reply #26 above, quoted below) that the Brampton pedigrees are inconsistent there with regard to the name of Olyve Aylmer’s father ...
Allow me to direct your attention to the following entry in the Visitations of Norfolk:
Olyve Aylmer, daughter of Roger Aylmer, married to Thomas Brampton of Brampton (d.1505). Children: Elizabeth, John, Anne
https://archive.org/stream/visitacionievisi32ryew#page/46/search/Aylmer
Olive Aylmer, daughter of Richard Aylmer of Tatenton in Suffolk (same Olive, different first name of father given)
https://archive.org/stream/visitacionievisi32ryew#page/50/search/Aylmer
This is of course very true. Still! Olyve and Elyse! Those are like ... two completely different names! :)
(Unlike Roger and Robert, I guess. *g* Still, I can sort of see how that error came about ... It would be very easy interpret Ro[something unintelligible] as Robert, especially as Robert is by far the more common name ... Certainly it was by the time the visitations were published.)
But Olyve and Elyse! I am judging the people responsible for that error so hard right now *g*
I can, however, not shake my ironclad belief that this is the same woman, the details fit too perfectly, and that somehow her name was muddled to Olive in the visitations ... (And her father's name muddled as well.)
I did react a bit at first at the name Olive, it seemed a bit 'modern' for the times ... More 1880's than a girl born in the 1400's.
According to the Wikipedia entry for Olivia:
Olivia is a feminine given name in the English language. It is derived from Latin oliva "olive". The name was first popularised by William Shakespeare's character in the Twelfth Night, but in fact the name occurs in England as early as the thirteenth century.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivia_(name)
I couldn't even find one for Olive.
But, then again, Elyse is not exactly typical for the times, either ...
Sometimes I really would have loved it if we had video footage of how these errors occurred :)
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Visitations can’t always be relied on.
On the other hand, while there’s no doubt it’s written Elyse in this will (as HD has said), that might possibly be a misreading of Olyve.
For all these wills, the images we are looking at are copies, made for the probate registry from the originals. While name errors in register wills are rare, they are not unknown. The two names are similar in shape, three letters out of five are the same, and capitals in particular can be confused. Just a suggestion.
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Visitations can’t always be relied on.
On the other hand, while there’s no doubt it’s written Elyse in this will (as HD has said), that might possibly be a misreading of Olyve.
For all these wills, the images we are looking at are copies, made for the probate registry from the originals. While name errors in register wills are rare, they are not unknown. The two names are similar in shape, three letters out of five are the same, and capitals in particular can be confused. Just a suggestion.
Ah, thank you!!! :) :) :)
I honestly think we have it there! You see, my gut instinct has been telling me Olive/Olyve all along, and that is not usually wrong ...
Of course! That is actually a brilliant deduction.
You see, there was one more thing that lead me to believe that Olive fit.
Olive's daughter Ann Brampton marries John Wychingham, and their youngest daughter is called Olivia.
The History and Antiquities of the County of Norfolk: North Erpingham, South Erpingham and Eynsford. (https://books.google.com/books?id=gGZBAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA3-PA111&lpg=RA3-PA111&dq=Ann+Brampton+John+Wychingham&source=bl&ots=TZQRfNbNnX&sig=SPGuHps6mBDF7XWzj_4BatbqF3U&hl=no&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjArLfjqPXdAhVl6oMKHZO8Cl4Q6AEwBXoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=Ann%20Brampton%20John%20Wychingham&f=false)
Of course, this is not proof of anything, but it sort of ... fits, you know?
(According to the below pedigree our Olive Aylmer Brampton is the 15-great grandmother of Winston Churchill and Princess Diana, making our testator Roger Aylmer their 16-great grandfather, making him the 17-great grandfather of the future King of England :)
http://fabpedigree.com/s039/f655676.htm
I am sure he would have liked that :) )
I can more readily believe that a possibly overworked and tired clerk made a mistake in copying a somewhat unfamiliar name in a will in an unfamiliar hand, than two family members at two different visitations (as the book seems to indicate) having remembered an Elyse as an Olyve . That one family member could have misremembered a Roger as a Robert while adding the (correct) extra information that he was from 'Tatenton' in Suffolk, meanwhile, I do not at all find hard to believe.
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Snippet #14:
...I wull she have v li It(e)m I wull yt remen(a)nt of ye stuffe of m(e)y
howsehold be sold be m(e)y executores and ye mony therof comyng
disposed ^by them^ in p(er)formance of yis m(e)y last wyll and in od(er) dedes of
pyte and m(er)cy for ye wele of m(e)y sowle It(e)m I beqwe(a)th to Anne
my wyfe all ye goodes yt she brought w(i)t(h) hyr whan she was maryed
to me And ye xl li yt is owyng to ^me^ hyr of ^her^ my Annuyte The residu(e)
of all my goodes & catall w(i)t(h) ye dettes yt ar(e)n owyng to me I yeve
& beqwethe to ye good disposic(i)on of m(e)y executores for m(e)y sowle
m(e)y frendes sowlys & all crist(i)en sowlys ef yis m(e)y testament & ordeyn
& make m(e)y executors The seid Thomas Aylemer m(e)y son and
ye seid Thomas Brampton of Brampton(n) yevyn day yer(e) & place
abovewryten(n)
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Out of interest:
1) "pightle" is still used. There was a small place along the Old Wymondham Road from Bunwell called "pightle" (remembered from our youth) and there was/is "The Pightle, Wymondham Road, Bunwell, Norwich NR16 1NB (for sale) ;
2) as is the road from Moulton to Aylmer Hall, which is now a farm, near Long Stratton;
3) the Will of Roger Aylemer 1497 is referenced NCC Will Register = Multon 49 (is this Moulton?)
4) there is another Will for a Sir Roger Aylemer 1435, Sudbury on Suffolk Wills Online proved in Norwich NCC, Will Register = Surflete 190.
Worth following up ?
Rgds
francoso
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One of the meanings of the word transom is "a strengthening crossbar, in particular one set above a window or door", so maybe in this instance for hanging bed curtains?
Drosybont
Ooh! That would make a lot of sense! :)
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I beqwe(a)th to Anne my wyfe
This, on the other hand, throws quite a spanner in the works! :)
I have gone through the transcribed will again to see if I might have missed a reference to an Elizabeth, his late wife (even though I have been on the lookout for any mention of her all along!), in case he was married twice, and Elizabeth was his first wife.
That would have sort of made sense :)
Only two sons, Thomas and Robert Aylmer, are mentioned in the lawsuit concerning their inheritance as sons of Elizabeth Aylmer, the sister of John at Wood. Edmund had probably passed away by 1515-8, and if the will of John at Wood specified heirs male that would have excluded Edmund's two daughters, Frances and Anne.
However, John, if he went on to father a son in 1521, he would necessarily have to have been alive in 1515-1518.
I cannot, however, find any such reference to Elizabeth, or any other wife than Anne.
Which is odd, because everything seemed to fit so neatly, including the Robert Wood mentioned earlier :)
So in a way it would have made sense that Thomas and Robert (who we now know from this will to have been the eldest sons) to have had one mother, and the rest another.
I went in search of the will of John at Wood, and I found one. I could make out a wife Margaret, which fits, and something that might be Aylmer.
Could one of the people better at this than I am possibly take a quick look and confirm or disconfirm the name Aylmer for me? :)
The will of John at Wood 1488 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5111/40611_311107-00472?pid=899771&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D5111%26h%3D899771%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DoBL1423%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=oBL1423&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=40611_311107-00472)
Thank you so much, HD, for all of your hard work :) :) :) Attempting to unravel this mystery would have been hopeless without you.
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Out of interest:
1) "pightle" is still used. There was a small place along the Old Wymondham Road from Bunwell called "pightle" (remembered from our youth) and there was/is "The Pightle, Wymondham Road, Bunwell, Norwich NR16 1NB (for sale) ;
It's such a cute word :) It probably has nothing to do with it, but it makes me picture lots of small piglets running happily around!
2) as is the road from Moulton to Aylmer Hall, which is now a farm, near Long Stratton;
Now that is mighty interesting! :) :D :) I feel that if I had a map in front of me I would have made a big red circle just about now!
3) the Will of Roger Aylemer 1497 is referenced NCC Will Register = Multon 49 (is this Moulton?)
I think Multon is the name of the first person who left in that book of wills, so it probably was someone from Moulton or whose family was from there, yes :)
4) there is another Will for a Sir Roger Aylemer 1435, Sudbury on Suffolk Wills Online proved in Norwich NCC, Will Register = Surflete 190.
Worth following up ?
Rgds
francoso
Oh, yes, I think we will definitely be looking into that one! :) :) :)
By the way, does anyone know were Catyngton might be? I thought the identity of the place would be only a google search away, but that was not so!
From the will of Alexander Aylmer 1549
my mansion howse at Catington with all the Landes woodes medowes pasturs with thappurtun(an)ces that was my fathers Robt Aylemers
(From this thread: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=800382.9)
From the will of Roger Aylmer 1497
my sowle & for the sowlyesof m(e)y fader & moder yerly be kept in the churche of Catyington
churche of Catyngton in Suff
Catyngton Brundysshe & Wylbey in the Counte of Suff
Brundysshe I think must be Brundish:
Brundish in Suffolk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brundish
And Wylbey must be Wilby:
Wilby in Suffolk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilby,_Suffolk
But I am drawing a blank on Catington/Catyngton/Catyington.
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I went in search of the will of John at Wood, and I found one. I could make out a wife Margaret, which fits, and something that might be Aylmer.
Could one of the people better at this than I am possibly take a quick look and confirm or disconfirm the name Aylmer for me? :)
The will of John at Wood 1488 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5111/40611_311107-00472?pid=899771&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D5111%26h%3D899771%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DoBL1423%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=oBL1423&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=40611_311107-00472)
I have skim-read this will but could see no mention of Aylmer or anything like it. The testator John at Wood was a Grocer of Greyfriars in St Sepulchre, London. Very few people are mentioned. Margaret was his deceased wife; his current wife (and executrix) was named Eden. Two other family members were Margaret and Agnes, perhaps daughters but no relationship is stated. They were deceased at the time of writing, as bequests were made to various parishes and communities to pray for their souls, along with that of the deceased wife Margaret.
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Snippet #15
Probatu(m) fuit p(re)sens test(amentu)m Apud Norwic(um) cora(m) nobis Offic(iali) Cons(istoriali)
D(omi)ni Norwic(i) Ep(iscop)i xxvjo die mens(is) Octobr(is) Anno D(omi)ni mlo iiiic [lxxxxxvj deleted] lxxxo
xvijo Ac p(er) nos approbatu(m) et insinuat(um) necno(n) p(ro) vero et l(egi)timo test(ament)o def(uncti)
infrascript(i) p(ro)nu(n)ciat(um) et declaratu(m) Et quia testator infrascript(us) te(m)p(or)e
mort(is) sue fuit nobis et [deleted] nobilis et arma gerens cui(us) p(re)textu ip(s)i(us) test(ament)i
p(ro)bac(i)o approbac(i)o et insinuac(i)o eiusd(em) ad d(i)c(tum) do(minum) Norwic(i) Ep(iscopu)m et nos
eius no(m)i(n)e et no(n) ad Aliu(m) Judice(m) inferiore(m) de iure co(n)suetudine q(ue) lauda-
bili et l(egi)time p(re)script(a) notor(ia) p(er)tiner(e) dinoscunt(ur) Com(m)iss(a) fuit Ad(ministracio) om(nium)
et sing(u)lor(um) bonor(um) d(i)c(t)i defuncti & suorum [deleted] suu(m) h(uius)mo(d)i testamentu(m) con-
cernen(tium) Thome Aylm(er) ex(ecutori) in d(i)c(t)o test(ament)o no(m)i(n)ato in forma iur(is) iurato res(er)vat(a) nobis
p(otes)tate com(m)ittend(i) h(uius)mo(d)i Ad(ministracionem) Alij Ex(ecutori) cu(m) ven(er)it &c In cui(us) Rei testimon(ium) Sigill’ &c.
The present will was proved at Norwich before us, the Official of the Consistory Court of the Lord Bishop of Norwich, on the 26th day of the month of October in the year of the Lord 1497* and was approved by us and inserted (in the register), and indeed was pronounced and declared as the true and lawful will of the deceased named within; and because the testator named within was at the time of his death a nobleman and bore arms – by reason of which the probate, approval and insertion of the same are deemed, by right and custom and by praiseworthy and lawfully prescribed instruction, to belong to the said Lord Bishop of Norwich and to us in his name, and not to any lower judicial authority – administration was granted of all and singular the goods, and (everything) relating to the will of the said deceased, to Thomas Aylmer, the executor named in the said will, he having been sworn in form of law; power reserved by us of granting this administration to the other executor when he shall come, etc. In witness of which, sealed, etc.
* written (after correction) as 1000 400 80 17
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Are we sure it is "Catington/Catyngton/Catyington". There is some question whether or not it is Coke or Toke, so maybe ...
Search of Suffolk Record Office (SRO) http://www.dswebhosting.info/Suffolk/SRODServe/index.html
Ref No. HA116/4/1/6; Date 1563-1651
Description: 20 documents numbered in pencil. Includes copy will of Robert Godbold of Worlingworth. Will 27 Jan 1621/2. Probate 20 Oct 1622. Latin and English.
Proceeding through the following copy & paste you will note that Tatyngton becomes Tadington, and in turn that becomes Tannington.
1- Feoffment [Latin, 1 seal] 2 September 1563
(1) Robert Lynsey of Stradbroke, yeoman to
(2) Thomas Browne of Brundysshe, yeoman
24 acres of land in Wurlyngworth and Tatyngton
3 witnesses
2 - Feoffment [Latin, 1 seal] 10 September 1563
(1) Robert Lynsey of Stradbrook, yeoman to
William Harper of Wyngefilde yeoman
24 acres of land in Wurlyngworth and Tatyngton
3- Counterpart of No 2 signed with the mark of William Harper sen. [Latin, 2 tags one seal]
4 - Quitclaim [Latin, 1 seal with a twist of grass embedded in it] 29 September 1565
(1) Thomas Browne of Brundyshe to
(2) William Harper of Wyngefilde, yeoman
24 acres of land
5 - Feoffment [Latin, 1 seal] 27 September 1599
(1) William Harper sen of Wingfeild, yeoman, (2) William Harper jun to
(3) Edward Borrett of Allington [Athelington]
24 acres of land etc in Wurlingworth and Tadington [Tannington]
2 witnesses and signed by Edward Borrett
6 - Feoffment [1 seal] 29 March 1600
(1) William Harper sen of Wyngfield to
(2) Robert Godbold of Worlingworth
24 acres of land in Worlingworth and Tannington
4 witnesses
7 - Feoffment [1 seal] 30 June 1600
(1) Robert Godbold of Worlingworthe to
(2) John Kinge of Clopton
24 acres of land in Worlingworth and Tannington
8 - Copy of the will of Robert Godbold of Worlingworth, yeoman 27 January 1622, probate 20 October 1622
9 - Bond for performance of covenants [Latin, 1 seal] 31 January 1650
(1) Francis Godbold of Earsham, Norfolk and (2) Mary Risinge, widow of William Risinge of Monks Soham and before that the wife of Thomas Godbold, bound to
(3) John Goldsmyth of Kelshall [Kelsale] and (4) Joan his wife for £200
5 witnesses
10 - Mortgage [1 seal, 1 missing] for 1000 years for 1 peppercorn rent 31 January 1650
(1) Francis Godbold (2) Mary Rising
(3) John Goldsmyth of Kelshall [?Kelsale] (4) Joan his wife for £100 for 16 acres
5 witnesses
11 - Deed to lead to the uses of a common recovery 20 September 1650
(1) Francis Godbold of Earsham, Norfolk, gent to
(2) Jeffry Hetherington of Cliffords Inne, Fleetstreete, London, gent (3) Edward Parker of Stuston, gent
26 acres in Worlingworth and Tannington
12 - Counterpart to 11
13 - Common Recovery [Latin, seal missing] 28 November 1650
(1) Geoffrey Hetherington and (2) Edward Parker against
(3) Francis Godbold
one messuage, one garden and 26 acres of pasture in Worlingworth and Tannington
14 - Bargain and sale [3 seals] 1st May 1651
(1) Francis Godbold of Earsham, Norfolk son and heir of Thomas Godbold of Monks Soham, (2) Ellinor his wife (3) Mary Risinge, widow and mother of Francis
(4) Edward Barker of Wansworth, Surrey
26 acres of land in Worlingworth and Tannington
5 witnesses
Endorsed: Enrolled in the Close Rolls of Chancery 5 July 1651by Humfrey Jaggard
15 - Discharge [Quitclaim?]1 May 1651
(1) Francis Godbold (2) Ellinor Godbold (3) Mary Risinge received from
(4) Edward Barker £420
5 witnesses
16 - Bond 1st May 1651
(1) Francys Godbold of Earsham [Norfolk] (2) Michaell Hare of Norwich, gent bound to
(3) Mary [?Riseing] of Worlingworth, widow
of £200
- on reverse
(1) Edward Barker charges due to
(2) Robert Morse
17 - Final Concord 9 May 1651 between (1) Edward Barker plaintiff and Francis Godbold, Ellenor his wife and Mary Riseinge widow, deforciants
for one messuage, one garden, one orchard and 26 acres of pasture in Worlingworth and Tannington
for 60 pounds sterling
18 - Final Concord - Counterpart of No 17
19 - Mortgage by demise for 1000 years for 1 peppercorn rent [1 seal ] 10 May 1651
(1) Edward Barker of Wansworth, Surrey to
(2) Francis Godbold of Earsham, Norfolk for £200
26 acres in Worlingworth and Tannington
signed by Francis Godbold, 2 witnesses
20 - Counterpart to 19 signed by Edward Barker
Then, searching The Manors of Suffolk
https://archive.org/details/cu31924092579576/page/n103 (page 94 in the book): under Manor of Tannington or Braisworth's, there is reference to:
"In 1538 we meet with a fine levied on the Manor of Tannington by Edward Mostyn, serjeant at law and others against Alexander Aeylmer." (sic).
ADDED: on same page 94 "James Wyard, Gen., hold the Manor of Bruseworth, alias Bruiseyards, in Tannington .... (see Snippet #13).
francoso
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I went in search of the will of John at Wood, and I found one. I could make out a wife Margaret, which fits, and something that might be Aylmer.
Could one of the people better at this than I am possibly take a quick look and confirm or disconfirm the name Aylmer for me? :)
The will of John at Wood 1488 (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5111/40611_311107-00472?pid=899771&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D5111%26h%3D899771%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DoBL1423%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=oBL1423&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=40611_311107-00472)
I have skim-read this will but could see no mention of Aylmer or anything like it. The testator John at Wood was a Grocer of Greyfriars in St Sepulchre, London. Very few people are mentioned. Margaret was his deceased wife; his current wife (and executrix) was named Eden. Two other family members were Margaret and Agnes, perhaps daughters but no relationship is stated. They were deceased at the time of writing, as bequests were made to various parishes and communities to pray for their souls, along with that of the deceased wife Margaret.
Thank you so much! It was the Agnes that I thought might be Aylmer :) Though I did actually think that it looked more like Agnes! Perhaps I am getting better at this stuff :)
Yes, I honestly doubted that this was the right one myself. I have a sneaking suspicion that the John at Wood that we are looking for died in 1496. The only thing that doesn't fit with that is that that John apparently didn't leave a will, and the lawsuits involving Thomas and Robert Aylmer, the sons of Elizabeth Aylmer, sister of John at Wood, clearly states that he left a will.
However, the daughters of this John goes about claiming their inheritance as well at exactly the same time, and their mother and his wife was indeed called Margaret. And just as with Thomas and Robert, it was probably her death that prompted the preceedings to get a hold of their inheritance.
She had remarried.
Everything else fits almost spookily well. He even had a son named Roger(!). Who went off to die in the Crusades!
(Way too late for that to have been fashionable).
And if I have found the right family, John and Elizabeth's father would have been named Robert ... :)
Thank you so much again for having a look! :) :) :)
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Snippet #15
Probatu(m) fuit p(re)sens test(amentu)m Apud Norwic(um) cora(m) nobis Offic(iali) Cons(istoriali)
D(omi)ni Norwic(i) Ep(iscop)i xxvjo die mens(is) Octobr(is) Anno D(omi)ni mlo iiiic [lxxxxxvj deleted] lxxxo
xvijo Ac p(er) nos approbatu(m) et insinuat(um) necno(n) p(ro) vero et l(egi)timo test(ament)o def(uncti)
infrascript(i) p(ro)nu(n)ciat(um) et declaratu(m) Et quia testator infrascript(us) te(m)p(or)e
mort(is) sue fuit nobis et [deleted] nobilis et arma gerens cui(us) p(re)textu ip(s)i(us) test(ament)i
p(ro)bac(i)o approbac(i)o et insinuac(i)o eiusd(em) ad d(i)c(tum) do(minum) Norwic(i) Ep(iscopu)m et nos
eius no(m)i(n)e et no(n) ad Aliu(m) Judice(m) inferiore(m) de iure co(n)suetudine q(ue) lauda-
bili et l(egi)time p(re)script(a) notor(ia) p(er)tiner(e) dinoscunt(ur) Com(m)iss(a) fuit Ad(ministracio) om(nium)
et sing(u)lor(um) bonor(um) d(i)c(t)i defuncti & suorum [deleted] suu(m) h(uius)mo(d)i testamentu(m) con-
cernen(tium) Thome Aylm(er) ex(ecutori) in d(i)c(t)o test(ament)o no(m)i(n)ato in forma iur(is) iurato res(er)vat(a) nobis
p(otes)tate com(m)ittend(i) h(uius)mo(d)i Ad(ministracionem) Alij Ex(ecutori) cu(m) ven(er)it &c In cui(us) Rei testimon(ium) Sigill’ &c.
The present will was proved at Norwich before us, the Official of the Consistory Court of the Lord Bishop of Norwich, on the 26th day of the month of October in the year of the Lord 1497* and was approved by us and inserted (in the register), and indeed was pronounced and declared as the true and lawful will of the deceased named within; and because the testator named within was at the time of his death a nobleman and bore arms – by reason of which the probate, approval and insertion of the same are deemed, by right and custom and by praiseworthy and lawfully prescribed instruction, to belong to the said Lord Bishop of Norwich and to us in his name, and not to any lower judicial authority – administration was granted of all and singular the goods, and (everything) relating to the will of the said deceased, to Thomas Aylmer, the executor named in the said will, he having been sworn in form of law; power reserved by us of granting this administration to the other executor when he shall come, etc. In witness of which, sealed, etc.
* written (after correction) as 1000 400 80 17
Thank you so much, Bookbox!!! :) :D :) This was wildly fascinating reading! I don't think we have ever come across a probate like this before!
Searching based on the above, I found a list (indexed by our very own Vance Mead no less! :) ) in which I find the following:
Henry VIII, 1512 - Side: d, Images: 764, County: Suff, Pleas: debt, Plaintiffs: Broke, Simon, of Ufford, yeoman, executors of; (Tevell, Thomas; Balhed, Robert), Defendants: Aylmer, Roger, of Tadyngton, esq, executor of; (Aylmer, Thomas, of Shelley, esq)
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40no998/CP40no998Def.htm
I think we may safely treat as established the fact that it was Roger's son Thomas Aylmer who married Rose Jenney (b.1474), who had a life interest in the manor Shelley from her first husband.
And here we also see Roger described as 'of Tadington' :)
because the testator named within was at the time of his death a nobleman and bore arms – by reason of which the probate, approval and insertion of the same are deemed, by right and custom and by praiseworthy and lawfully prescribed instruction, to belong to the said Lord Bishop of Norwich and to us in his name, and not to any lower judicial authority
This is very exciting! What does it mean? :)
Had Roger been ennobled between the time he wrote his will and he died? What does ennobled mean here? A knighthood? A hereditary title? :) (But we haven't found an Aylmer with an hereditary title, have we?) And they didn't have non-hereditary titles back then did they?
This is very exciting! :) :D :)
Thank you so much again, Bookbox, you're an absolute star!!! :) :-* :) I don't know how you do it! :) :D :)
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Are we sure it is "Catington/Catyngton/Catyington". There is some question whether or not it is Coke or Toke, so maybe ...
Search of Suffolk Record Office (SRO) http://www.dswebhosting.info/Suffolk/SRODServe/index.html
Ref No. HA116/4/1/6; Date 1563-1651
Description: 20 documents numbered in pencil. Includes copy will of Robert Godbold of Worlingworth. Will 27 Jan 1621/2. Probate 20 Oct 1622. Latin and English.
Proceeding through the following copy & paste you will note that Tatyngton becomes Tadington, and in turn that becomes Tannington.
1- Feoffment [Latin, 1 seal] 2 September 1563
(1) Robert Lynsey of Stradbroke, yeoman to
(2) Thomas Browne of Brundysshe, yeoman
24 acres of land in Wurlyngworth and Tatyngton
3 witnesses
2 - Feoffment [Latin, 1 seal] 10 September 1563
(1) Robert Lynsey of Stradbrook, yeoman to
William Harper of Wyngefilde yeoman
24 acres of land in Wurlyngworth and Tatyngton
3- Counterpart of No 2 signed with the mark of William Harper sen. [Latin, 2 tags one seal]
4 - Quitclaim [Latin, 1 seal with a twist of grass embedded in it] 29 September 1565
(1) Thomas Browne of Brundyshe to
(2) William Harper of Wyngefilde, yeoman
24 acres of land
5 - Feoffment [Latin, 1 seal] 27 September 1599
(1) William Harper sen of Wingfeild, yeoman, (2) William Harper jun to
(3) Edward Borrett of Allington [Athelington]
24 acres of land etc in Wurlingworth and Tadington [Tannington]
2 witnesses and signed by Edward Borrett
6 - Feoffment [1 seal] 29 March 1600
(1) William Harper sen of Wyngfield to
(2) Robert Godbold of Worlingworth
24 acres of land in Worlingworth and Tannington
4 witnesses
7 - Feoffment [1 seal] 30 June 1600
(1) Robert Godbold of Worlingworthe to
(2) John Kinge of Clopton
24 acres of land in Worlingworth and Tannington
8 - Copy of the will of Robert Godbold of Worlingworth, yeoman 27 January 1622, probate 20 October 1622
9 - Bond for performance of covenants [Latin, 1 seal] 31 January 1650
(1) Francis Godbold of Earsham, Norfolk and (2) Mary Risinge, widow of William Risinge of Monks Soham and before that the wife of Thomas Godbold, bound to
(3) John Goldsmyth of Kelshall [Kelsale] and (4) Joan his wife for £200
5 witnesses
10 - Mortgage [1 seal, 1 missing] for 1000 years for 1 peppercorn rent 31 January 1650
(1) Francis Godbold (2) Mary Rising
(3) John Goldsmyth of Kelshall [?Kelsale] (4) Joan his wife for £100 for 16 acres
5 witnesses
11 - Deed to lead to the uses of a common recovery 20 September 1650
(1) Francis Godbold of Earsham, Norfolk, gent to
(2) Jeffry Hetherington of Cliffords Inne, Fleetstreete, London, gent (3) Edward Parker of Stuston, gent
26 acres in Worlingworth and Tannington
12 - Counterpart to 11
13 - Common Recovery [Latin, seal missing] 28 November 1650
(1) Geoffrey Hetherington and (2) Edward Parker against
(3) Francis Godbold
one messuage, one garden and 26 acres of pasture in Worlingworth and Tannington
14 - Bargain and sale [3 seals] 1st May 1651
(1) Francis Godbold of Earsham, Norfolk son and heir of Thomas Godbold of Monks Soham, (2) Ellinor his wife (3) Mary Risinge, widow and mother of Francis
(4) Edward Barker of Wansworth, Surrey
26 acres of land in Worlingworth and Tannington
5 witnesses
Endorsed: Enrolled in the Close Rolls of Chancery 5 July 1651by Humfrey Jaggard
15 - Discharge [Quitclaim?]1 May 1651
(1) Francis Godbold (2) Ellinor Godbold (3) Mary Risinge received from
(4) Edward Barker £420
5 witnesses
16 - Bond 1st May 1651
(1) Francys Godbold of Earsham [Norfolk] (2) Michaell Hare of Norwich, gent bound to
(3) Mary [?Riseing] of Worlingworth, widow
of £200
- on reverse
(1) Edward Barker charges due to
(2) Robert Morse
17 - Final Concord 9 May 1651 between (1) Edward Barker plaintiff and Francis Godbold, Ellenor his wife and Mary Riseinge widow, deforciants
for one messuage, one garden, one orchard and 26 acres of pasture in Worlingworth and Tannington
for 60 pounds sterling
18 - Final Concord - Counterpart of No 17
19 - Mortgage by demise for 1000 years for 1 peppercorn rent [1 seal ] 10 May 1651
(1) Edward Barker of Wansworth, Surrey to
(2) Francis Godbold of Earsham, Norfolk for £200
26 acres in Worlingworth and Tannington
signed by Francis Godbold, 2 witnesses
20 - Counterpart to 19 signed by Edward Barker
Then, searching The Manors of Suffolk
https://archive.org/details/cu31924092579576/page/n103 (page 94 in the book): under Manor of Tannington or Braisworth's, there is reference to:
"In 1538 we meet with a fine levied on the Manor of Tannington by Edward Mostyn, serjeant at law and others against Alexander Aeylmer." (sic).
ADDED: on same page 94 "James Wyard, Gen., hold the Manor of Bruseworth, alias Bruiseyards, in Tannington .... (see Snippet #13).
francoso
You know what, I do believe you may be entirely right!!!
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Are we sure it is "Catington/Catyngton/Catyington". There is some question whether or not it is Coke or Toke, so maybe ...
This is actually brilliantly deducted. I did not think to connect the two!
And as we see, there is no denying Roger was from 'Tadyngton' now :)
Side: d, Images: 764, County: Suff, Pleas: debt, Plaintiffs: Broke, Simon, of Ufford, yeoman, executors of; (Tevell, Thomas; Balhed, Robert), Defendants: Aylmer, Roger, of Tadyngton, esq, executor of; (Aylmer, Thomas, of Shelley, esq)
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40no998/CP40no998Def.htm
And I agree, it is but a short step from Tatyngton to Catyngton, especially based on the below:
Are we sure it is "Catington/Catyngton/Catyington". There is some question whether or not it is Coke or Toke, so maybe ...
The similarity did strike me, especially when the only results I could find for Catington/Catyngton/Catyington was a Cat Cattington who was probably not owned by one of our Aylmers *g*
But I did not think about the Coke/Toke confusion.
This was great! Thank you so much! :) :D :)
That would mean that Roger's parents are buried at the Church at Tannington, and that Alexander's Mansion House is in Tannington.
Suddenly it makes so much more sense that they are both described as being of Tannington. *g*
(Thank you so much for this, by the way!
Then, searching The Manors of Suffolk
https://archive.org/details/cu31924092579576/page/n103 (page 94 in the book): under Manor of Tannington or Braisworth's, there is reference to:
"In 1538 we meet with a fine levied on the Manor of Tannington by Edward Mostyn, serjeant at law and others against Alexander Aeylmer." (sic).
This is one reference to Alexander I have not seen before :) I think he must be the Alexander Aylmer who was in the employ of Arthur Plantagenet, Lord Lisle, from the 1520's to at least 1534, until he started to come into his inheritance from about 1531.)
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because the testator named within was at the time of his death a nobleman and bore arms – by reason of which the probate, approval and insertion of the same are deemed, by right and custom and by praiseworthy and lawfully prescribed instruction, to belong to the said Lord Bishop of Norwich and to us in his name, and not to any lower judicial authority
This is very exciting! What does it mean? :)
The key phrase here is fuit nobilis et arma gerens = (literally) ‘was noble and bearing arms’. I haven’t come across it before in a probate clause, and I don’t know how literally it should be interpreted. Looking briefly online, I've found only one other probate clause using that exact phrase – in the will of Sir William Calthorp, proved in the same Norwich court in 1494.
Probate jurisdiction is a complicated subject, but testators of higher social status and greater wealth generally tended to have their wills proved in higher courts. Perhaps the implication here is that Roger Aylmer’s estate may not have been large, and probate would normally have been granted in the Archdeaconry Court of Norfolk, but his social status gave him access to the Norwich Consistory Court, which was one step higher.
I suspect that if Roger Aylmer had been ennobled you would by now have found a reference to that.
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A bit of background. Take your pick:
A) Recorded as Toke, Took, Tuck, Tuke, and the diminutives Tookey, Tuckie and Tuckey, this interesting and most unusual surname is English but ultimately of pre 7th century Viking origins. It derives from the personal name Tuke, itself claimed to be short form of "Thorkettill" translating as "Thors cauldron",. However some researchers say the derivation is from "Tiodgeir", meaning "people-spear", so there may be several possibilities. The personal name as Toc is recorded in the Domesday Book for Yorkshire in 1086, whilst Rogerus filius Toke is mentioned in the Curia Rolls of Northampton in 1214. Early examples of the surname include Robert Toke in the Pipe Rolls of Suffolk in 1200; William Toke, in the Curia Rolls of Northamptonshire in 1211; and Richard Toki in the Hundred Rolls of Wiltshire in 1273.
Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Took#ixzz5TUOfnWMC
B) The name Took reached English shores for the first time with the ancestors of the Took family as they migrated following the Norman Conquest of 1066. The Took family lived in Kent. Their name, however, is a reference to Touques, Normandy, the family's place of residence prior to the Norman Conquest of England in 1066.
Early Origins of the Took family
The surname Took was first found in Kent where they held a family seat from early times after the Norman Conquest in 1066. They were descended from Le Sire de Touques from Pont-le-Eveque where the castle stood. Wace, the historian, mentions the Baron Touque as amongst the Companions of Duke William, at Hastings in 1066. The ancient family of Touque of Godington of Kent claim descent from this Norman Lord. We would be remiss if we did not address the legendary Friar Tuck. Two royal writs in 1417 refer to Robert Stafford, a Sussex chaplain who had assumed the alias of Frere Tuk. Little more is known about him other than this "Friar Tuck" was still at large in 1429.
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Could these be the same people? Same names of testator and executor. It's 15 years later, in 1512, and at the beginning of the process, but sometimes it took that long to get started.
Hilary term 1512
Suffolk. Thomas Tevell and Robert Balhed, executors of Simon Broke, of Ufford, Suff, yeoman, versus Thomas Aylmer, of Shelley, Suff, esquire, executor of Roger Aylmer, of Tadyngton, Suff, esquire. Debt of 50 marks.
Second entry:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/H8/CP40no998/bCP40no998dorses/IMG_0764.htm
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because the testator named within was at the time of his death a nobleman and bore arms – by reason of which the probate, approval and insertion of the same are deemed, by right and custom and by praiseworthy and lawfully prescribed instruction, to belong to the said Lord Bishop of Norwich and to us in his name, and not to any lower judicial authority
This is very exciting! What does it mean? :)
The key phrase here is fuit nobilis et arma gerens = (literally) ‘was noble and bearing arms’. I haven’t come across it before in a probate clause, and I don’t know how literally it should be interpreted. Looking briefly online, I've found only one other probate clause using that exact phrase – in the will of Sir William Calthorp, proved in the same Norwich court in 1494.
Probate jurisdiction is a complicated subject, but testators of higher social status and greater wealth generally tended to have their wills proved in higher courts. Perhaps the implication here is that Roger Aylmer’s estate may not have been large, and probate would normally have been granted in the Archdeaconry Court of Norfolk, but his social status gave him access to the Norwich Consistory Court, which was one step higher.
Ah! That is so interesting :) :D :) And in an odd way very helpful to us! It was the Archdeaconry Court of Norfolk ones that were the locked ones, wasn't it? :)
So strange that we have benefitted from that decision ... :) :) :)
I suspect that if Roger Aylmer had been ennobled you would by now have found a reference to that.
I would have to agree with that :)
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A bit of background. Take your pick:
A) Recorded as Toke, Took, Tuck, Tuke, and the diminutives Tookey, Tuckie and Tuckey, this interesting and most unusual surname is English but ultimately of pre 7th century Viking origins. It derives from the personal name Tuke, itself claimed to be short form of "Thorkettill" translating as "Thors cauldron",. However some researchers say the derivation is from "Tiodgeir", meaning "people-spear", so there may be several possibilities. The personal name as Toc is recorded in the Domesday Book for Yorkshire in 1086, whilst Rogerus filius Toke is mentioned in the Curia Rolls of Northampton in 1214. Early examples of the surname include Robert Toke in the Pipe Rolls of Suffolk in 1200; William Toke, in the Curia Rolls of Northamptonshire in 1211; and Richard Toki in the Hundred Rolls of Wiltshire in 1273.
Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Took#ixzz5TUOfnWMC
B) The name Took reached English shores for the first time with the ancestors of the Took family as they migrated following the Norman Conquest of 1066. The Took family lived in Kent. Their name, however, is a reference to Touques, Normandy, the family's place of residence prior to the Norman Conquest of England in 1066.
Early Origins of the Took family
The surname Took was first found in Kent where they held a family seat from early times after the Norman Conquest in 1066. They were descended from Le Sire de Touques from Pont-le-Eveque where the castle stood. Wace, the historian, mentions the Baron Touque as amongst the Companions of Duke William, at Hastings in 1066. The ancient family of Touque of Godington of Kent claim descent from this Norman Lord. We would be remiss if we did not address the legendary Friar Tuck. Two royal writs in 1417 refer to Robert Stafford, a Sussex chaplain who had assumed the alias of Frere Tuk. Little more is known about him other than this "Friar Tuck" was still at large in 1429.
Oh, this was super-fascinating!!! Thank you so much! :) :D :)
I had no idea that Friar Tuck was a proven historical person! That is so cool! And so recent! I had to laugh at myself for my initial reaction of feeling 1429 as 'recent', but after spending such a long time in the company of these people, it is starting to feel fairly recent *g*
Certainly he was close in time to these people! :)
Inspired by the above, I went for another search for Toke/Coke, and found the following:
Duke of Suffolk v Coke. Plaintiffs: John, duke of Suffolk, and William, earl of Arundell. Defendants: John Coke and Robert Aylmer
Reference: C 1/15/334
Description: Short title: Duke of Suffolk v Coke.
Plaintiffs: John, duke of Suffolk, and William, earl of Arundell.
Defendants: John Coke and Robert Aylmer.
Subject: Unspecified.
Date: 1443-1450, possibly 1455-1456
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7439364
Duke of Suffolk v Cook. Plaintiffs: John, duke of Suffolk. Defendants: John Cook and Robert
Aylmere, feoffees to uses
Reference: C 1/48/267
Description: Short title: Duke of Suffolk v Cook.
Plaintiffs: John, duke of Suffolk.
Defendants: John Cook and Robert Aylmere, feoffees to uses.
Subject: Manor of Grymston called Breklys, late of John Pagrave, esquire, and Henry Faldyate, grocer, of Norwich. Norfolk
Date: 1473-1475
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7446993
John de la Pole, 2nd Duke of Suffolk, (1442–1492)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_de_la_Pole,_2nd_Duke_of_Suffolk
William FitzAlan, 16th Earl of Arundel, 6th Baron Maltravers (1417–1487)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_FitzAlan,_16th_Earl_of_Arundel
(This William FitzAlan was by the way the great-grandfather of the Henry FitzAlan, 19th Earl of Arundel (1512–1580) who married Katherine Grey, Lady Maltravers (d.1542) the daughter of Thomas Grey, 2nd Marquis of Dorset, and who was the aunt of Lady Jane Grey, whose tutor Bishop John Aylmer was :) )
Such an interesting story behind the name Toke!
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Could these be the same people? Same names of testator and executor. It's 15 years later, in 1512, and at the beginning of the process, but sometimes it took that long to get started.
Hilary term 1512
Suffolk. Thomas Tevell and Robert Balhed, executors of Simon Broke, of Ufford, Suff, yeoman, versus Thomas Aylmer, of Shelley, Suff, esquire, executor of Roger Aylmer, of Tadyngton, Suff, esquire. Debt of 50 marks.
Second entry:
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/H8/CP40no998/bCP40no998dorses/IMG_0764.htm
I think they must be! Thank you so much!!!
There you have Shelley - it seems as if Thomas Aylmer and his wife actually resided there for some time before selling the manor of Shelley in 1517 - and Roger Aylmer, of Tadyngton :)
I honestly feel rather proud of us for having found all of this stuff :)
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After reviewing the instances of capital C and T in this will, I would say that the place referenced in Snippets 2, 5 & 6 of this will is Tatyngton.
The clearest example is that in Snippet 5. The main distinguishing feature is the crossbar extending to the left of the curved central section.
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After reviewing the instances of capital C and T in this will, I would say that the place referenced in Snippets 2, 5 & 6 of this will is Tatyngton.
The clearest example is that in Snippet 5. The main distinguishing feature is the crossbar extending to the left of the curved central section.
Excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
😊😊😊😊😊😊🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌
We are so good!!!!!!!!!!!!
So it is Tatyngton!!!
Splendid!!!!!!! :) :D :) :D :)
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Willow, out of interest, the pightle we knew as kids is on the RHS just down the Old Wymondham Road from its corner with Mile Road in Bunwell in Norfolk, and only a matter of meters past the Took family on the LHS who we knew who were millers (mill run by a donkey engine, not a windmill). Adds a bit of connection to 500 years ago.
francoso
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Oh, that is so interesting! That might even be the same Took family! :)
What a lovely story! :)
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Hi Willow. Makes one wonder if the Duke of Suffolk was engaged against Cook/Coke or Took/Toke. After all, the transcribers of the originals could well have had the same confusion between "C" and "T" as we did. No one should claim that the original transcribers were infallible.
regards
francoso
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Hi Willow. Makes one wonder if the Duke of Suffolk was engaged against Cook/Coke or Took/Toke. After all, the transcribers of the originals could well have had the same confusion between "C" and "T" as we did. No one should claim that the original transcribers were infallible.
regards
francoso
Yes, exactly! That is the precise thought that struck me as well!!! :)
And since whatever it is that Cook/Coke or Took/Toke was up to that incurred the Duke's displeasure, he did it together with a Robert Aylmer, it makes me wonder if there was old friendship between the families.
Or, more prosaically, they lived near each other, so that generation after generation got the opportunity to befriend each other :)