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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: johneowens on Tuesday 02 October 18 14:21 BST (UK)

Title: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Tuesday 02 October 18 14:21 BST (UK)
The birth place on the 1917 birth certificate for my great aunt and uncle's child, James Roye McConville, is given as 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool, presumably where the mother gave birth, whereas the address given for the father (who was serving in the British Army) is different.

Out of curiousity, I googled 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool and found a message on Ancestry requesting information on a "Catherine Sharp 20 Laurel road L7 0LW who was the mother of Leslie George Sharp DOB 15/06/1916 west Derby and give him up for adoption in the same year." See https://www.ancestry.co.uk/boards/topics.adoption.uk.england.england/870/mb.ashx 

I do not know of any familial connection with the Sharps but this message prompted me to think that the 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool address (located near the Edge Hill Hospital at No. 17) might have been an informal adoption agency, and therefore that James Roye McConville might also be adopted. Both the parents went on to pursue their respective careers without James Roye.

I know adoption is a very tricky area since there is often very little documentation. Until we have the 1921 Census, can anyone please offer any guidance on the plausibility of James Roye being adopted?

In anticipation, many thanks

Best wishes

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: hanes teulu on Tuesday 02 October 18 14:43 BST (UK)
The following advert appeared in the Leeds Mercury 4 or 5 times during November and December 1913 -

"Lady would like to ADOPT BABY; premium required. Price, 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool E"
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 02 October 18 15:49 BST (UK)
Legal, formal, adoption didn't happen until 1927.

Any adoption before that would most probably be an informal adoption sometimes involving a local church.
As such, you are almost certainly not going to find any paperwork.
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: cath151 on Tuesday 02 October 18 16:17 BST (UK)
Also sad story from the from papers
Manchester Evening news 11 April 1915
Manslaughter verdict against Warrington woman
" of four children which Mrs Goodwin had adopted from Nurse Kate Maria Pearce of 20 Laurel Road, Fairfield, Liverpool, three had died"
The nurse had given Mrs Goodwin sums of £5, £9 and £10 to adopt the children;
A later report about the same case
"Nurse Kate Maria Pearce, widow, a certified midwife" apparently one or more of the children were illegitimate and born at her house.

So obviously adoptions happening from that address but equally if Nurse Pearce was a qualified midwife perhaps she catered for women giving birth in general.

Cathy
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Tuesday 02 October 18 16:47 BST (UK)
Many thanks, cath151, hanes teulu and KGarrad, for this very interesting research. Seems my suspicions were correct. Interesting to add that my gt aunt was a nurse.

Thanks to all.

Best

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: purlin on Tuesday 02 October 18 16:49 BST (UK)
The property 20 Laurel Rd. is still there you may wish to have a look on Street View, Google maps
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: california dreamin on Tuesday 02 October 18 17:57 BST (UK)
Perhaps it might be worth checking the Electoral register for that address or equally any Trade Directory (i.e. perhaps address was a small mother & baby nursing home - and the services sometimes went beyond...)

CD
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Tuesday 02 October 18 19:15 BST (UK)
Good thinking, CD. Will do.

Will also check streetview on Google earth. Thanks, Purlin.

Best

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: Blue70 on Tuesday 02 October 18 19:16 BST (UK)
No Electoral Registers are available for 1916 and 1917.


Blue
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: hanes teulu on Tuesday 02 October 18 20:09 BST (UK)
I had checked Historical Directories (on line) - they go up to 1919 - but drew a blank re Laurel Road, Liverpool.

I had checked the 1911 Census but property listed "uninhabited".
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Tuesday 02 October 18 20:13 BST (UK)
Yes, of course, and most women under 30 would not be on the Register.

Best

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Tuesday 02 October 18 20:14 BST (UK)
I had checked Historical Directories (on line) - they go up to 1919 - but drew a blank re Laurel Road, Liverpool.

I had checked the 1911 Census but property listed "uninhabited".

Thanks, hanes teulu. That's useful.

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: california dreamin on Wednesday 03 October 18 10:10 BST (UK)
Hi all,

My curiosity peaked I started to look at what else the newspaper archives might hold for 20 Laurel Road.  I found an add from April 1914 under 'Apartments to be Let'  which reads as follows:

Accouchement - Comfortable Home for lady, before and during: mod terms.  Nurse Pierce, 20 Laurel Road, Fairfield, Liverpool.

Being unfamiliar with the term 'Accouchement' I looked it up and it is described variously on the internet, but basically ....“to be delivered of a child, to aid in delivery”.

So, it sounds like Nurse Pierce/Pearce  rented out rooms for pregnant women to live before and up to the time they gave birth.  I guess her other services went beyond if the woman was unable to keep the baby. Therefore, not a maternity home as such, but a midwife who rented out rooms and 'cared' for the expectant mothers and delivered their babies.

As a note:  A woman called Kate Pearce can be found on the 1901 census living in Liverpool and working as a nurse at the David Lewis Northern Hospital, Islington, Liverpool.  Described as single, age 32 (b. 1869) originally from Madley, Shropshire. 

In 1911, a Kate Maria 'Pierce' is living at 15 Huntley Road, Fairfield, Liverpool.  Occupation: Certified Midwife.  Industry or service:  Maternity Home.  On own account.  She says she is a widow and is enumerated  as  living with her 2 daughters, 2 sons, a male boarder, and 5 female boarders (one is 14 days old).

CD
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: lancsann on Wednesday 03 October 18 14:01 BST (UK)
found this in an article about the parish

"That is the origin of 'Rosemont' Convent, in Laurel Road, off Edge Lane. Following the convalescent work the Sisters cared for 'girls in need', some of them unmarried mothers. But for many years it has been a home for handicapped girls. "
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Wednesday 03 October 18 14:04 BST (UK)
Fascinating research. Well done, all of you.
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Wednesday 03 October 18 19:47 BST (UK)
Hi all,

My curiosity peaked I started to look at what else the newspaper archives might hold for 20 Laurel Road.  I found an add from April 1914 under 'Apartments to be Let'  which reads as follows:

Accouchement - Comfortable Home for lady, before and during: mod terms.  Nurse Pierce, 20 Laurel Road, Fairfield, Liverpool.

Being unfamiliar with the term 'Accouchement' I looked it up and it is described variously on the internet, but basically ....“to be delivered of a child, to aid in delivery”.

So, it sounds like Nurse Pierce/Pearce  rented out rooms for pregnant women to live before and up to the time they gave birth.  I guess her other services went beyond if the woman was unable to keep the baby. Therefore, not a maternity home as such, but a midwife who rented out rooms and 'cared' for the expectant mothers and delivered their babies.

As a note:  A woman called Kate Pearce can be found on the 1901 census living in Liverpool and working as a nurse at the David Lewis Northern Hospital, Islington, Liverpool.  Described as single, age 32 (b. 1869) originally from Madley, Shropshire. 

In 1911, a Kate Maria 'Pierce' is living at 15 Huntley Road, Fairfield, Liverpool.  Occupation: Certified Midwife.  Industry or service:  Maternity Home.  On own account.  She says she is a widow and is enumerated  as  living with her 2 daughters, 2 sons, a male boarder, and 5 female boarders (one is 14 days old).

CD

Great stuff, CD.

All this figures. So, my great aunt was about to produce a child 4 months after getting married (and probably not really wanting to be married but social norms were such at the time). As a nurse herself, she heard about Kate Pearce through the nurses' grapevine and stayed at 20 Laurel Road during her period of confinement.

Now, of course, this does not tell us that James Roye was adopted but given my gt aunt and her husband went on to pursue their careers in separate locations thereafter, the chances are James Roye was adopted.

Great research, CD, for which many thanks.

BTW, could you please give me the references for the ad and the censuses.

Best wishes

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Wednesday 03 October 18 19:49 BST (UK)
found this in an article about the parish

"That is the origin of 'Rosemont' Convent, in Laurel Road, off Edge Lane. Following the convalescent work the Sisters cared for 'girls in need', some of them unmarried mothers. But for many years it has been a home for handicapped girls. "

Thanks, Lacsann but I don't think this fits the particular circumstances I have described. Appreciate the thought, however.

Best

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: Blue70 on Wednesday 03 October 18 19:56 BST (UK)
found this in an article about the parish

"That is the origin of 'Rosemont' Convent, in Laurel Road, off Edge Lane. Following the convalescent work the Sisters cared for 'girls in need', some of them unmarried mothers. But for many years it has been a home for handicapped girls. "

I don't think there's any religious connections with this address. You can see number 20 Laurel Road on this c1950s map it's a terraced house not one of the larger properties in the vicinity (you may need to zoom out a bit to view this map):-

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/337773/390983/13/101329


Blue
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Wednesday 03 October 18 20:05 BST (UK)
Thanks, Blue. Do you think 'Rosemont' Convent is the same as 20 Laurel Road? As a trained nurse earning good money in France, my gt aunt would not impecunious but likely she would want an unobstrusive place of confinement.

Best

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: Blue70 on Wednesday 03 October 18 20:53 BST (UK)
Thanks, Blue. Do you think 'Rosemont' Convent is the same as 20 Laurel Road? As a trained nurse earning good money in France, my gt aunt would not impecunious but likely she would want an unobstrusive place of confinement.

Best

John

No Rosemont was the former name of St Saviour's Convent off Edge Lane not far from Laurel Road. If you go back to the 1891 map from this 1950s map the property was called Rosemont:-

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/337781/390719/13/101329


Blue
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Thursday 04 October 18 09:54 BST (UK)
OK, thanks

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: california dreamin on Friday 05 October 18 14:49 BST (UK)
Hi all,

My curiosity peaked I started to look at what else the newspaper archives might hold for 20 Laurel Road.  I found an add from April 1914 under 'Apartments to be Let'  which reads as follows:

Accouchement - Comfortable Home for lady, before and during: mod terms.  Nurse Pierce, 20 Laurel Road, Fairfield, Liverpool.

Being unfamiliar with the term 'Accouchement' I looked it up and it is described variously on the internet, but basically ....“to be delivered of a child, to aid in delivery”.

So, it sounds like Nurse Pierce/Pearce  rented out rooms for pregnant women to live before and up to the time they gave birth.  I guess her other services went beyond if the woman was unable to keep the baby. Therefore, not a maternity home as such, but a midwife who rented out rooms and 'cared' for the expectant mothers and delivered their babies.

As a note:  A woman called Kate Pearce can be found on the 1901 census living in Liverpool and working as a nurse at the David Lewis Northern Hospital, Islington, Liverpool.  Described as single, age 32 (b. 1869) originally from Madley, Shropshire. 

In 1911, a Kate Maria 'Pierce' is living at 15 Huntley Road, Fairfield, Liverpool.  Occupation: Certified Midwife.  Industry or service:  Maternity Home.  On own account.  She says she is a widow and is enumerated  as  living with her 2 daughters, 2 sons, a male boarder, and 5 female boarders (one is 14 days old).

CD

Great stuff, CD.

All this figures. So, my great aunt was about to produce a child 4 months after getting married (and probably not really wanting to be married but social norms were such at the time). As a nurse herself, she heard about Kate Pearce through the nurses' grapevine and stayed at 20 Laurel Road during her period of confinement.

Now, of course, this does not tell us that James Roye was adopted but given my gt aunt and her husband went on to pursue their careers in separate locations thereafter, the chances are James Roye was adopted.

Great research, CD, for which many thanks.

BTW, could you please give me the references for the ad and the censuses.

Best wishes

John

John ,
The ad can be found on FindMyPast in their Newspaper section.  I simply put in the address 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool.  You can probably narrow down by date of the advert.

1901 Piece 3425 Folio 183 Page 13 District Liverpool Sub district: Islington  (Name written as Pearce)
1911 Piece 22619 District West Derby  Sub district:  West Derby Eastern (Name written as Pierce)

On Ancestry you can find Kate Maria on the Midwives Roll.  In 1910 her address is given as 15 Huntley Road, L'pool.  In 1915 her address is given as 20 Laurel Rd, L'pool

Her reg # 23186  Date of Enrolment Feb 22, 1906   Qualification:  CMB examination

James may have been adopted but if you buy his b/c there is usually a stamp on it that says 'adopted' but obviously no indication as to his new identity.  However, have you considered that he may have been placed into a 'board & care'?  This was another option.  The child was boarded out for an indeterminate time.  The birth mother (usually) paying for this

CD
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 05 October 18 15:46 BST (UK)
James may have been adopted but if you buy his b/c there is usually a stamp on it that says 'adopted' but obviously no indication as to his new identity. 

CD

Legal adoption didn't commence (in England & Wales) until 1st January 1927 - so before that time there will be no stamps, or any other marks, to indicate an adopted child.

Some adoptions were legal affairs - in which case legal papers may still exist.
But most were informal adoptions no paperwork exists for these.
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: california dreamin on Friday 05 October 18 15:55 BST (UK)
Yes, true and point taken I had forgotten James' year of birth was 1917.  However, if he had gone into a board and care there is nothing to say he was not adopted legally at a later stage.  He would only have been 10 yrs old in 1927.  Some children stayed in board and care until they were legally adults, others went to live with their mothers at other points in their childhood and some were adopted.

I would still be tempted to buy the b/c for any further clues.  Maybe John has already done this?  Sorry haven't read back through the posting.

CD
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Friday 05 October 18 16:04 BST (UK)
Many thanks, again, CD. I’ll check out these refs when i’m on a more reliable WiFi connection.

I have James bc. No stamp. I think I may need to wait for the 1921c for confirmation on his fate. He retained his name throughout his life. He married, twice, and died with that name. He also would not have lived with his mother for more than a few weeks. She died in 1918.  Not certain her parents would have known of her pregnancy or birth.

Best wishes

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: california dreamin on Friday 05 October 18 16:15 BST (UK)
Hi John

Thanks for the extra information.  Yes, so it sounds like 'board and care' was not an option if his birth mother died in 1918.  You had said both parents went on to pursue careers  ???

So if the birth mother died only months after his birth it is more than likely he was 'privately/un officially' adopted. If James did marry it would be interesting to see who he gives as his father on his marriage certificate.

CD
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Friday 05 October 18 16:34 BST (UK)
Sorry to be so obtuse, CD. James was b the end of April 1917 in Liverpool. His mother was working as a BRC sister from June thru rest of 1917 in London. Father was serving in the army possibly in France. Next, I find her qualifying as a midwife in August 1918 in Lancashire. 4 months later she died in the “Spanish” flu pandemic is Essex.

Yes, I had same thought - checking out JR’s marriage certificate for father when he first married aged 17 in Warrington in 1935, by which time his mother’s husband/father had died. Back to the GRO.

Many thanks again.

Best

John



Many thanks for
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: lancsann on Saturday 06 October 18 16:02 BST (UK)
Hope you have not already spend money for that marriage certificate. It is on lan-opc

Marriage: 24 Feb 1935 St Mary, Great Sankey, Lancashire, England
James Roye McConville - 20, Asst. Manager, Bachelor, 110 Langford St. Warrington
Florence Parker - 20, Spinster, 30 Heath Rd.
    Groom's Father: Mark Roye McConville, Deceased
    Bride's Father: Joseph Parker, Fruiterer
    Witness: Joseph Parker; Vera Parker
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: lancsann on Saturday 06 October 18 16:08 BST (UK)
parents marriage?

Marriages Dec 1916   (>99%)
Allen    Kezia E    McConville    Liverpool    8b   19    
McConville    Mark R    Allen    Liverpool    8b   19

Banns: St Bride, Toxteth, Lancashire, England
Mark Roy McConville - b, Parish of S. Lawrence, Kirkdale
Keziah Esther Allen - s, 55 Canning St
    First Reading: 10 Dec 1916; Read By: H. W. C. Baugh
    Second Reading: 17 Dec 1916; Read By: G. Mortimore
    Third Reading: 24 Dec 1916; Read By: H. W. C. Baugh
    Notes: Married
    Register: Banns 1903 - 1925, Page 111, Entry 333
    Source: LDS Film 1546436

Marriage: 25 Dec 1916 St Bride, Toxteth, Lancashire, England
Mark Roy McConville - 30, Seaman, Bachelor, 80 Leven Street
Kezia Esther Allen - 31, Hospital Nurse, Spinster, 55 Canning Street
    Groom's Father: John McConville, Chemist
    Bride's Father: James Allen, Tripe Dresser
    Witness: Alfred Henry Brown; Ada Jones

Mark died in 1929
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: lancsann on Saturday 06 October 18 16:34 BST (UK)
Do you have the probate record of 1941 for his grandmother Alice who died in 1914 giving administration to James Roy MCConville, tannery engineer

and in the same year administration of Mark to James
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Saturday 06 October 18 16:36 BST (UK)
Hope you have not already spend money for that marriage certificate. It is on lan-opc

Marriage: 24 Feb 1935 St Mary, Great Sankey, Lancashire, England
James Roye McConville - 20, Asst. Manager, Bachelor, 110 Langford St. Warrington
Florence Parker - 20, Spinster, 30 Heath Rd.
    Groom's Father: Mark Roye McConville, Deceased
    Bride's Father: Joseph Parker, Fruiterer
    Witness: Joseph Parker; Vera Parker

Phew! Saved me £6. Many thanks, LancsAnn.

Best

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Saturday 06 October 18 16:44 BST (UK)
Do you have the probate record of 1941 for his grandmother Alice who died in 1914 giving administration to James Roy MCConville, tannery engineer

Yes, thanks, again LancsAnn

Curious that probate was granted 12 years after Mark Roye died - which is very late and thus suggest some uncertainty or dispute as to who was the beneficiary. Not that there was a great fortune to inherit. Still, very strange.

Best

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Sunday 14 October 18 16:46 BST (UK)
Hi LancsAnn or anyone else

Ancestry is throwing out a possible second marriage for James Roye McConville to a Jean E Singleton in St. Helens 2Q/1977. Can you anyone find any details, please? Can't see it on lan-opc.

Best wishes and thanks

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: lancsann on Sunday 14 October 18 17:27 BST (UK)
It was either a registry office marriage or non Cof E so probably no details other than ordering the certificate

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1977
Surname   Forename(s)   Surname   Forename(s)   Church / Register Office   Registers At   
MCCONVILLE   James R   SINGLETON   Jean E   St. Helens Register Office or Registrar Attended   St Helens
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Sunday 14 October 18 17:29 BST (UK)
Thanks, LancsAnn

Yes, looks like the cert route.

Best

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Wednesday 05 December 18 22:02 GMT (UK)
Dear all who have been following this thread

It has a happy ending, at least for me. I have been able to contact one of James Roye’s Daughters who has sent me a wonderful pic of her grandmother Cassie.

Best and thanks again to all.

John
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Thursday 06 December 18 15:06 GMT (UK)
So glad that you've had such a pleasant outcome. Well done.
TY
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: Anthony Ingram on Thursday 06 December 18 21:07 GMT (UK)
Well done John Owens, that is great news for you. Thank you again for starting this post, it has helped me find out a lot about about my grand father Leslie sharp and 20 laurel road.
Title: Re: 20 Laurel Road, Liverpool - accommodation address for adoptions?
Post by: johneowens on Thursday 06 December 18 22:14 GMT (UK)
Thanks, Anthony.

Happy to help. This is what rootschat.com is all about.

Best

John