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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: gray18 on Friday 05 October 18 17:30 BST (UK)
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Hi all , I am trying to find info on my GGG Grand father who was lost at sea . the date his death was reported 1854 ,He was heading to America , He left Liverpool to go to Philadelphia on the 1st March but the Ship was never heard from again the ship was no stranger to the route as it used it for 4 years, there was 480 on board including 293 emigrants .
my GGG Grandfather Andrew Gray was born in Ayrshire in 1822 .
Thank you in advance.
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This has a full list of passengers.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mte/
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Thank you for getting back to me so quick , I noticed that a few ships around the same heading to U.S.A. had problems with outbreaks of Cholerea . So I will keep looking.
thank you
M G M
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Oops forgot to say he was not on that list.
M G M
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Can you clarify please.....you have his death reported, or, you are looking for his reported death?
".. the date his death was reported 1854 ,He was heading to America "
His name is not on the passenger list. How, when and where do you see his death reported?
What are you wanting to know about him?
If you are researching his early life - name for wife and children, their ages, birthplaces etc would be useful.
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Hi all , I am trying to find info on my GGG Grand father who according to info I have read, was lost at sea . the date his death was reported 1854 ,He was heading to America ,
my GGG Grandfather Andrew Gray was born in Ayrshire in 1822 . he had a son James and was married to Margaret Robb?.
That is all
Thank you in advance.
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Also here:
topics merged
(Report to Mod sent)
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You now have the one enquiry at two forum sites. This is not a good idea. It is inefficient because people who would respond to your enquiry need one site only, the better to pool information.
Assuming that you know your ancestor to be born in Ayrshire, this (Ayrshire) site would be better than using the Common Room.
I am assuming that you are researching the origins of your great great grandfather, James GRAY?
You need to say where are you reading about the death of Andrew, at sea, 1854.
"..my GGG Grandfather Andrew Gray was born in Ayrshire in 1822 . he had a son James and was married to Margaret Robb?."
You are using a question mark here. What are you uncertain about.........the name of his wife........the name of his son......was there a marriage?
If you are researching the origins of your great great grandfather James GRAY, start with the earliest evidence you have of him, which is probably a marriage record.
Do you see these people in the 1851 census?
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This enquiry is now at two sites - Common Room and Ayrshire.
I have suggested to the poster that the Ayrshire site would be better for continuing this enquiry.
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I did a Report to Mod when I put the duplicate note on the other thread. They will decide which board it should be on.
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Do you know if he was a passenger or a crew member?
Boo
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Sorry about all the confusion that is why I came to here as I was confused too ,all I am trying to do is find out about Andrew Gray and his family before him from Ayr .
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Have you used scotlands people. Do you know what town in ayrshire as using the census might help as a starting point. Post in ayrshire board
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Hi all , again sorry I have been so long in getting back but I had to search for this as it was on a application form for poor relief...…... :)
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There is a ANDREW GRAY in this...………………. :)
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Is there any chance of a bigger scan -maybe of just his entry - please. It's too small to read very much with the scan that you've given.
Also, the source, please.
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OK - found it in Overseas deaths - wages and effects of deceased seamen.
Ship - Idda.
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I've tried to bring up the column for place, cause and date of death but can't really work it out. Date looks like 16/6/54
Gadget
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try
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According to that 1857 Poor Law inspection report, Andrew Gray, a joiner, had died at sea 16 years previously - so circa 1841 ?
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try
I think you missed the posts where I'd found the record - just before your post.
This suggests he was a seaman.
Just seen your post, Shaun!
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Do you think that is him , I do not even have his family right except his 1 and only son , the whole thing is a mess...……. >:(
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I don't think the death entry you have is him, if his wife was Margaret Robb who then married James Robertson.
Have you got all info on James Gray, who you have as his sone on your chart?
Gadget
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Just looked at James' marriage on SP:
James was 21 when he married in 1879, so born 1858.
He gives his parents as Andrew Gray, General labourer (deceased) and what looks like Mary (could be Marg) Gray, MS Robb
Think maybe work back from that info.
Gadget
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James living with inlaws in 1881 in Govan. b. Ayr aged 25.
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yes , his son was my granda`s father his wife was Margaret burnet robb then she became Robertson and then there was a Wallace in there some where , no wonder the guy joined the boats...…. ;)
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Son James and wife Jemima are in Cardiff in 1891. He is a teacher of Matematics, aged 33, b. Scotland
RG12/4386/84/62 See below - in Govan
The info on the Poor law report looks a bit out if it was written in 1857 as James was born 1856-1858 according to the censuses. Have you have traced him back correctly.
Are you sure Margaret Robb married James Robertson as the marriage entry gives her name as Gray, MS Robb.
Gadget
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Margaret Burnet Robb or Gray married James Robertson in Glasgow Central, in 1855.
There must be some errors or mistranscriptions in the Poor Law item.
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But son James Gray wasn't born until 1857-ish.
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I've now followed info from this tree for son James:
(http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=801528.0;attach=486310;image)
I'm not sure that the OP has the ancestry correct.
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Here is the info from James' MC in 1879
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The Cardiff one seems wrong, although it's the only one for James with Jemima in 1891.
They are on the 1901 in Govan, James aged 45 (b.c. 1856 , Ayr)
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1891, in Govan. Hutchesontown
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Another Poor Law visit note on a public tree on Ancestry https://goo.gl/YUsYQ7
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Sorry I forgot to ask how did Andrew gray on that ship.
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The 1855 marriage register is interesting. She is Margaret Burnet Robb, a spinster.
https://goo.gl/NCdhCW
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Cause and place of death in that deceased seaman record: Fever at Bahia.
Bahia is a Brazilian state.
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Another Poor Law visit note on a public tree on Ancestry https://goo.gl/YUsYQ7
That looks better.
Have we got a birth registration for James?
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From the 1867 report:
....Her first husband's child James aged 14 born Coylton Parish, her first husband's name was Braid....
So who was the James Gray b.c. 1856?
:-\
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1871
56 Tennant st, Glasgow (Inner High)
James Robertson , 58,Watchman, b. Lanarkshire
Margaret, 44, b. Ayrshire
Marion, 10
Ellen, 8
Catherine, 3
James Grey, 17, bottle maker, b. Ayrshire
Margaret's death cert (1899) was signed by James Gray, son
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The 1871 and this one tie in with the Poor Law report
1861
43 Garngad Hill, Glasgow
James Robertson, 59, gatekeeper,pottery, b New Monkland
Margaret, 35, b. Colyton
John Wales Robertson, sn, 11, b. Glasgow
James Robertson, son 8, b. Glasgow
Jane Robertson, dau,22, b. New Monkland
Morrion Robertson, dau, 1, b. Glasgow
Gadget
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1851
Colyton, Ayrshire
Peter Robb. 57
Marion, w, 50
Margaret, d, 24
......
John Wallace, grdson, 3, b. Glasgow - could be 3 months?
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Re the 1867 Poor Law Report:
Could Gray have been misheard as Braid??
Added - The OP might well have the census info but putting it up to help trace the family.
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Have we got a birth registration for James?
No birth registration in Scotland before 1855. His death record suggests he was born circa 1851 which ties in with the Poor Law record from 1857.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/34997395/person/18862818161/media/de45e8f2-e014-4f05-80e9-85e84bab57b5?_phsrc=yGf28377&usePUBJs=true
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I do know about Scottish registrations, Shaun ;D
I think I asked when his marriage and census suggested a birth of 1855-1858. Since seeing his age on the 1861 and 1871censuses (given above) , I've searched baptisms on SP but nothing so far.
PS - I think you missed my last few posts.
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The only factual info we have on Andrew Gray is from the Returns for Seamen. James was very young when he died and there's no info about his place of birth. He's not with Margaret on the 1851 and could be anywhere on the 1841.
Dundee was the home port of the Idda.
Info on James' marriage cert and on Margaret's death cert was given by James. No other info. so far.
Gadget
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Think this might be Andrew Gray in 1851. Living at Gadgirth Holme, Coylton a few households away from Margaret Robb and family ( viewable on Freecen). Age 20 born Dailly, Ayrshire. Occ Joiner (app)
Possibly the Andrew Gray born at Monkton on 10/4/1831 to Andrew Gray and Ann Thom
https://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
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That looks very much like him Isobel :)
So he was older than the OP stated and would fit with being a ship's carpenter, maybe.
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I'm not up on the Registers Of Wages And Effects Of Deceased Seamen
The NA suggests it was paid to the ship's master. Andrew Gray's entry has payment being made at Grimsby.
I don't see a standard overseas death record so far :'(
Gadget
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That looks very much like him Isobel :)
So he was older than the OP stated and would fit with being a ship's carpenter, maybe.
Younger!!
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yep - I was dating a school photo on the photo board and was thinking of that ;D
There's an interesting Andrew Gray on the Merchant Seamen records which records him dying at sea in 1856. Approx the right age but he's recorded as being born Dundee :-\