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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: gray18 on Friday 05 October 18 17:30 BST (UK)

Title: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: gray18 on Friday 05 October 18 17:30 BST (UK)
Hi all , I am trying to find info on my GGG Grand father who was lost at sea . the date his death was reported 1854 ,He was heading to America , He left Liverpool to go to Philadelphia on the 1st March but the Ship was never heard from again the ship was no stranger to the route as it used it for 4 years, there was 480 on board including 293 emigrants .
my GGG Grandfather Andrew Gray was born in Ayrshire in 1822 .

Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: hepburn on Friday 05 October 18 18:29 BST (UK)
This has  a full list of passengers.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mte/
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: gray18 on Friday 05 October 18 20:48 BST (UK)
Thank you for getting back to me so quick , I noticed that a few ships around the same heading to U.S.A. had problems with outbreaks of Cholerea . So I will keep looking.


thank you

M G M
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: gray18 on Friday 05 October 18 21:00 BST (UK)
Oops forgot to say he was not on that list.

M G M
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 05 October 18 21:27 BST (UK)
Can you clarify please.....you have his death reported, or, you are looking for his reported death?

".. the date his death was reported 1854 ,He was heading to America "

His name is not on the passenger list. How, when and where do you see his death reported?

What are you wanting to know about him?

If you are researching his early life -  name for wife and children, their ages, birthplaces etc would be useful.
Title: LOST AT SEA
Post by: gray18 on Friday 05 October 18 21:42 BST (UK)
Hi all , I am trying to find info on my GGG Grand father who according to info I have read, was lost at sea . the date his death was reported 1854 ,He was heading to America ,
my GGG Grandfather Andrew Gray was born in Ayrshire in 1822 . he had a son James and was married to Margaret Robb?.
 That is all

Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: LOST AT SEA
Post by: Gadget on Friday 05 October 18 21:51 BST (UK)
Also here:

topics merged

(Report to Mod sent)
Title: Re: LOST AT SEA
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 05 October 18 22:34 BST (UK)
You now have the one enquiry at two forum sites. This is not a good idea. It is inefficient because people who would respond to your enquiry need one site only, the better to pool information.

Assuming that you know your ancestor to be born in Ayrshire, this (Ayrshire) site would be better than using the Common Room.

I am assuming that you are researching the origins of your great great grandfather, James GRAY?

You need to say where are you reading about the death of Andrew, at sea, 1854.

"..my GGG Grandfather Andrew Gray was born in Ayrshire in 1822 . he had a son James and was married to Margaret Robb?."

You are using a question mark here. What are you uncertain about.........the name of his wife........the name of his son......was there a marriage?

If you are researching the origins of your great great grandfather James GRAY, start with the earliest evidence you have of him, which is probably a marriage record. 

Do you see these people in the 1851 census?
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: wivenhoe on Friday 05 October 18 22:37 BST (UK)

This enquiry is now at two sites - Common Room and Ayrshire.

I have suggested to the poster that the Ayrshire site would be better for continuing this enquiry.
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Friday 05 October 18 22:50 BST (UK)
I did a Report to Mod when I put the duplicate note on the other thread.  They will decide which board it should be on.
Title: Re: LOST AT SEA
Post by: Tickettyboo on Saturday 06 October 18 00:11 BST (UK)
Do you know if he was a passenger or a crew member?

Boo
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: gray18 on Saturday 06 October 18 07:29 BST (UK)
Sorry about all the confusion that is why I came to here as I was confused too ,all I am trying to do is find out about Andrew Gray  and his family before him from Ayr .
Title: Re: LOST AT SEA
Post by: Creasegirl on Saturday 06 October 18 08:05 BST (UK)
Have you used scotlands people.  Do you know what town in ayrshire as using the census might help as a starting point.  Post in ayrshire board
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: gray18 on Sunday 07 October 18 03:54 BST (UK)
Hi all , again sorry I have been so long in getting back but I had to search for this as it was on a application form for poor relief...…...  :)
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: gray18 on Sunday 07 October 18 08:31 BST (UK)
There is a ANDREW GRAY in this...………………. :)
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 08:36 BST (UK)
Is there any chance of a bigger scan -maybe of just his entry - please. It's too small to read very much with the scan that you've given.

Also, the source, please.
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 08:42 BST (UK)
OK - found it in Overseas deaths - wages and effects of deceased seamen.

Ship - Idda.



Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 08:50 BST (UK)
I've tried to bring up the column for place, cause and date of death but can't really work it out. Date looks like 16/6/54


Gadget
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: gray18 on Sunday 07 October 18 08:52 BST (UK)
try
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: ShaunJ on Sunday 07 October 18 08:55 BST (UK)
According to that 1857 Poor Law inspection report, Andrew Gray, a joiner, had died at sea 16 years previously - so circa 1841 ?
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 08:57 BST (UK)
try

I think you missed the posts where I'd found the record - just before your post.

This suggests he was a seaman.

Just seen your post, Shaun!
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: gray18 on Sunday 07 October 18 09:13 BST (UK)
Do you think that is him , I do not even have his family right except his 1 and only son , the whole thing is a mess...……. >:(
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 09:17 BST (UK)
I don't think the death entry you have is him, if his wife was Margaret Robb who then married James Robertson.

Have you got all info on James Gray, who you have as his sone on  your chart?


Gadget
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 09:22 BST (UK)
Just looked at James' marriage on SP:

James was 21 when he married in 1879, so born 1858.

He gives his parents as Andrew Gray, General labourer (deceased) and what looks like Mary (could be Marg) Gray, MS Robb

Think maybe work back from that info.

Gadget
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 09:26 BST (UK)
James living with inlaws in 1881 in Govan. b. Ayr aged 25.

 
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: gray18 on Sunday 07 October 18 09:32 BST (UK)
yes , his son was my granda`s father his wife was Margaret burnet robb then she became Robertson and then there was a Wallace in there some where , no wonder the guy joined the boats...…. ;)
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 09:40 BST (UK)
Son James and wife Jemima are in Cardiff in 1891. He is a teacher of Matematics, aged 33, b. Scotland

RG12/4386/84/62
  See below - in Govan

The info on the Poor law report looks a bit out if it was written in 1857 as James was born 1856-1858 according to the censuses. Have you have traced him back correctly.
 
Are you sure Margaret Robb married James Robertson as the marriage entry gives her name as Gray, MS Robb.

Gadget
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: ShaunJ on Sunday 07 October 18 09:43 BST (UK)
Margaret Burnet Robb or Gray married James Robertson in Glasgow Central, in 1855.

There must be some errors or mistranscriptions in the Poor Law item.
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 09:54 BST (UK)
But son James Gray wasn't born until 1857-ish.

Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 09:57 BST (UK)
I've now followed info from this tree for son James:

(http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=801528.0;attach=486310;image)

I'm not sure that the OP has the ancestry correct.
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 10:07 BST (UK)
Here is the info from James' MC in 1879

Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 10:21 BST (UK)
The Cardiff one seems wrong, although it's the only one for James with Jemima in 1891. 

They are on the 1901 in Govan, James aged 45 (b.c. 1856 , Ayr)
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 10:23 BST (UK)
1891, in Govan. Hutchesontown
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: ShaunJ on Sunday 07 October 18 10:30 BST (UK)
Another Poor Law visit note on a public tree on Ancestry https://goo.gl/YUsYQ7
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: gray18 on Sunday 07 October 18 10:59 BST (UK)
Sorry I forgot to ask how did Andrew gray on that ship.
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: ShaunJ on Sunday 07 October 18 11:08 BST (UK)
The 1855 marriage register is interesting. She is Margaret Burnet Robb, a spinster.

https://goo.gl/NCdhCW
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: ShaunJ on Sunday 07 October 18 11:31 BST (UK)
Cause and place of death in that deceased seaman record: Fever at Bahia.

Bahia is a Brazilian state.
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 13:03 BST (UK)
Another Poor Law visit note on a public tree on Ancestry https://goo.gl/YUsYQ7

That looks better.

Have we got a birth registration for James?
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 13:12 BST (UK)
From the 1867 report:


Quote
....Her first husband's child James aged 14 born Coylton Parish, her first husband's name was Braid....

So who was the James Gray b.c. 1856?

 :-\
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 13:34 BST (UK)
1871

56 Tennant st, Glasgow (Inner High)

James Robertson , 58,Watchman, b. Lanarkshire
Margaret, 44, b. Ayrshire
Marion, 10
Ellen, 8
Catherine, 3
James Grey, 17, bottle maker, b. Ayrshire

Margaret's death cert (1899)  was signed by James Gray, son
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 13:44 BST (UK)
The 1871 and this one tie in with the Poor Law report

1861
43 Garngad Hill, Glasgow
James Robertson, 59, gatekeeper,pottery, b New Monkland
Margaret, 35, b. Colyton
John Wales Robertson, sn, 11, b. Glasgow
James Robertson, son 8, b. Glasgow
Jane Robertson, dau,22, b. New Monkland
Morrion Robertson, dau, 1, b. Glasgow

Gadget
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 13:52 BST (UK)
1851
Colyton, Ayrshire
Peter Robb. 57
Marion, w, 50
Margaret, d, 24
......
John Wallace, grdson, 3, b. Glasgow  - could be 3 months?
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 13:56 BST (UK)
Re the 1867 Poor Law Report:

Could Gray have been misheard as Braid??

Added - The OP might well have the  census info but putting it up to help trace the family.
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: ShaunJ on Sunday 07 October 18 15:13 BST (UK)
Quote
Have we got a birth registration for James?

No birth registration in Scotland before 1855. His death record suggests he was born circa 1851 which ties in with the Poor Law record from 1857.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/mediaui-viewer/collection/1030/tree/34997395/person/18862818161/media/de45e8f2-e014-4f05-80e9-85e84bab57b5?_phsrc=yGf28377&usePUBJs=true
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 15:40 BST (UK)
I do know about Scottish registrations, Shaun  ;D

I think I asked when his marriage and census suggested a birth of 1855-1858.  Since seeing his age on the 1861 and 1871censuses (given above) , I've searched baptisms on SP but nothing so far.

PS - I think you missed my last few posts.
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 15:48 BST (UK)
The only factual info we have on Andrew Gray is from the Returns  for Seamen.  James was very young when he died and there's no info about his place of birth. He's not with Margaret on the 1851 and could be anywhere on the 1841.

Dundee was the home port of the Idda.

Info on James' marriage cert and on Margaret's death cert was given by James. No other info. so far.


Gadget
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: isobelw on Sunday 07 October 18 15:51 BST (UK)
Think this might be Andrew Gray in 1851. Living at Gadgirth Holme, Coylton a few households away from Margaret Robb and family ( viewable on Freecen). Age 20 born Dailly, Ayrshire. Occ Joiner (app)
Possibly the Andrew Gray born at Monkton on 10/4/1831 to Andrew Gray and Ann Thom
https://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 16:40 BST (UK)
That looks very much like him Isobel   :)
So he was older than the OP stated and would fit with being a ship's carpenter, maybe.

Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 16:45 BST (UK)
I'm not up on the Registers Of Wages And Effects Of Deceased Seamen

The NA suggests it was paid to the ship's master. Andrew Gray's entry  has payment being made at Grimsby.

I don't see a standard overseas death record so far  :'(

Gadget
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: isobelw on Sunday 07 October 18 17:00 BST (UK)
That looks very much like him Isobel   :)
So he was older than the OP stated and would fit with being a ship's carpenter, maybe.

Younger!!
Title: Re: Andrew Gray , being lost at sea , any info welcome.
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 07 October 18 18:05 BST (UK)
yep - I was dating a school photo on the photo board and  was thinking of that  ;D

There's an interesting Andrew Gray on the Merchant Seamen records which records him dying at sea in 1856. Approx the right age but he's recorded as being born Dundee  :-\