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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: LDaw on Saturday 06 October 18 16:01 BST (UK)
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I discovered recently that my great grandfather was Francis James Hughes. Using various sites (including newspaper records and a military site) I've not been able to track his death down. In fact, all I seem to find is details relating to people connected to him rather than about him himself. No hints ever flagged up on ancestry.co.uk either. When he was 17 he was an iron turner. Family history suggests he was known as Frank.
What I know - he was born Apr-Jun 1892 in Lincoln.
He had a son in 1909 but didn't marry the mother (Margaret Rossington).
I believe he married Mildred Violet Barnes Jan-Mar 1913 in Leeds. She was born Oct-Dec 1892 and died in St Albans Oct-Dec 1960.
They had a son, Walter James Hughes in Leeds (Holbeck) 1915 and he died in Italy in 1944 (an obituary from his aunt and uncle confirmed this connection). Walter was married to Eva Alice Course.
There also appears to be another son, Norman Hughes who was born and died Apr-Jun 1918 registered in Holbeck.
Any suggestions for me?
Thanks
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Have you looked in the 1939 register - now on findmypast and ancestry? That would give a clue as to whether he was alive then & where he lived.
ADDED: Looks like there may be another son reg Jun quarter 1920.
ADDED 2: The CWGC site has Walter 'son of Frances [sic] James & Mildred Dorothy Violet Hughes', not the LATE Frances James - so Francis was probably alive then.
https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2077815/hughes,-walter-james/
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Do you have Mildred's 1960 death cert,was he alive then?
A tree on Ancestry has his death as St Pancras in Sept 1/4 of 1972.
That may be incorrect as that one has a DOB as 19 Oct 1894.
Deaths Sep 1972
Hughes Francis James 19 Oc1894 St.Pancras 5d 2012
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I've not got her death certificate, I take it they include marital status on them then.
I didn't realise the CWGC site would describe his father as late. Is it generally accurate in that respect?
Thanks both
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A woman usually would have "wife of..." or "widow of..." Bonus points if he was the one who registered her death.
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Still alive in 1939 living with Mildred in Middlesex. Also listed a Francis E Hughes born 1920 ( Freebmd have a match born Sheffield 1920 mmn Barnes).
Isobel
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According to the finds he certainly moved around a bit!
1892 born Lincoln
1913 married Mildred in Leeds
1920 son born in Sheffield
1939 in Middlesex
1960 Mildred died in St Albans
So, how about these possibilities on FreeBMD (only if Mildred was a widow in 1960)?:
Death Jun qtr 1947 vol 4b p769 Lothingland HUGHES Francis J, age 54
Death Sep qtr 1958 Coventry vol 9c p591 HUGHES Francis J, age 65
(Lothingland RD is in East Suffolk)
Philip
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It may be worth looking with alternative names - Frances or Frank if that was what he was known as
One of my ancestors was Joel, but his death was registered as Joseph, because the person registering the birth wasn't an immediate family member I assume he was known as Joe and the full name was assumed
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1939 register had him as a train driver. He had an engineering related background so anywhere he moved to would have to have an appropriate industry.
I’ve renewed my ancestry subscription today and he was alive in 1939. Still can’t find a death.
I have checked under Frank. Hadn’t tried under Frances as that the female form. It might be worth a try though.
St Albans and Southgate are very close to each other.
I suspect he left Lincoln as he denied parentage of his first born.
Thanks for the input so far.
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Commonwealth War Graves have a civilian death in Bootle on 3rd May 1941 of a Francis Hughes age 49. Right age but a long way from Middlesex.
Isobel
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This is the death registration for the Bootle one that Isobel found:-
Deaths Jun 1941
Hughes Francis 49 Bootle 8b 439
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They seem to be in Islington after the war, to the fifties? (London electoral registers)
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Has anyone looked up Railway employee records yet?
(Sorry my subs have just elapsed :( )
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I had taken a look at the Bootle guy, after the CWGC tip, but failed to find anything to link or discount him.
The men who died in Coventry and Lothingland had other records I could trace that suggest they are different men.
Thanks for the London Registers info, I hadn't been able to find that on Ancestry (I seem to have lost my ability to navigate that site properly).
I didn't know there was railway employees info. I hope it's something Anecestry has and I'll take a look later today.
When I previously had a subscription the 1939 Register wasn't commonly available. Does anyone know if it's possible to do a trace according to the address only?
Thanks. (I'm loving the team element!)
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You can trace through addresses via the electoral registers. You won't be able to do the war years 1940 to 1944/45 as none were done then.
Not quite sure when they restarted after the war.
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9 Granville Road, Wood Green (Southgate) in 1939
Restarted in 1945 when they are in Islington
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Do you know which railway company he worked for?
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Ancestry has a death of a Francis J Hughes in Sept Qtr 1966 aged 74 born in 1892. The death is in the Claro Registration District West Riding of Yorkshire
ancestry also has his marriage date as 24 March 1913 to Mildred Violet Dorothy Barnes. Witnesses are Ernest Richardson and Beatrice Hughes
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If he was a train driver potentially his death could have been anywhere, if he died whilst working
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You could consider getting Mildred's death certificate but it may not help. There are four possibilities for who registered her death:-
1. Husband
2. Son/daughter
3. Another relative
4. Complete stranger.
You could try and see if there was any death notice in the local paper.
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As per jonw65’s post,the last electoral address I can find is in Islington
East,1960,the date of Mildred’s death.Despite the birth year difference I
would say the record for Francis James Hughes 1894-1972,St.Pancras,
might be favourite due to location?
Regards
Roger
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Apologies to carol8353 who already posted that possibility.
Unfortunately,it does also look like the record of a Professor of Music from the 1939 Hornsby district.
Regards
Roger
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Have you looked at the 1939 register which gives his exact date of birth,due to the rules of the register we are not allowed to give you that info.
His death may be easier to track down with an exact DOB.
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Ancestry has a death of a Francis J Hughes in Sept Qtr 1966 aged 74 born in 1892. The death is in the Claro Registration District West Riding of Yorkshire
This COULD be
Births Sep 1892
Hughes Francis John Pontefract 9c 144
His death may be easier to track down with an exact DOB.
Good thinking although it will depend on informant knowing exactly....
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Francis birth date is 16 June 1892.
Going by that there is:-
HUGHES, FRANCIS JAMES COOK
GRO Reference: 1892 J Quarter in LINCOLN Volume 07A Page 548
I think someone has already found the above birth. This is the only one that fits his birth date.
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What year is this death?
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There is this - birthdate a little out & middle name incorrect:
Deaths Jun 1978
HUGHES FRANCIS JOSEPH 1JE1892 SURREY N 17 363
ADDED: but this could be
Births Sep 1892
Hughes Francis Joseph Cannock 6b 513
if registered a few weeks after birth ie after 1 Jul 1892.
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He was Francis James Hughes and, yes, he was born 16/06/1892 and married 24/03/1913.
The last electoral roll entry I've found, so far, is 1954. The 1960 entry isn't him. The 1960 entry relates to a Francis J Hughes who was living with a Matilda Hughes (and he has an entry at the same address in 1954 too).
My Francis' wife was Mildred Violet Dorothy Hughes. As her name is less common I've been doing the traces using her name. I'm wondering if he retired and they moved or if he died and she moved. Her death is registered in St Albans and the Herts electoral roll doesn't appear to be available online yet.
(I've found a Francis E Hughes still living in Islington in 1957, if he's their youngest son Mildred didn't move away to live with him.)
I have tried newspaper traces using a wide range of key word searches but have had no joy. What would be the best local newspaper for someone living in Islington?
I've found nothing on the grave search websites so far for Mildred or Francis. (I thought her grave could give me some clues if I could find it.)
Are Railway Employee records available through Ancestry.co.uk? If so, what are they listed under as I can't find them. If not, where would I find them?
Iolaus - your comment got be thinking, if he drove a train to Glasgow and had a heart attack and died there - would his death be registered there or at his home address? I assume they'd transport his body back home on a train...
Thanks again
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Hopefully the below link will take you to ancestry's railway employee records.
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/db.aspx?dbid=1728
If it doesn't or you can't use it then Google Railway Employee Records and go from there. Pick the Ancestry link.
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Yes, that link works. Unfortunately it doesn't bring up anything with the various combinations I'm trying.
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When I did it, it came up with one Francis and four Franks. I couldn't check the details as I didn't have a sub.
Do I take it that none of them are your Francis/Frank?
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Nothing that appeared to match. Unfortunately, Francis/Frank was common at the time and Hughes is not unusual either.
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Another post here - I have asked moderator to merge it with this post
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=801873.msg6596892#msg6596892
Until you buy a copy of Mildred's death cert to establish whether she was a widow at that time - you have no timescale for his death.
If she was a widow in 1960 then you are looking for a death 1954-1960. If Francis reported her death - then you are looking post 1960
Deaths from 1969 show full birth date (assuming whoever reported the death had that info) but prior to 1969 it's age only