RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: gnorman on Sunday 07 October 18 22:32 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone, another of the fine Rootschat members helped me to discover more of my ancestors; they are listed in detail with information about their date of birth, baptisms and in some cases their dates of death and burials as below.
Maria Wakefield
Born 27th December 1770, baptised 21st January 1771.
Catherine Wakefield
Born 6th May 1773, baptised 30th May 1773
Died 16th December 1792. Buried 18th December 1792.
Nancy Wakefield
Born 26th January 1776, baptised 19th 1776.
Died 1st October 1782. Buried 2nd October 1782.
Peggy Wakefield
Born 19th December 1777, baptised 11th January 1778.
Died 30th August 1782. Buried 1st September 1782.
Charlotte Wakefield
Born 5th May 1782, baptised July 1782.
Robert Wakefield
Died 9th January 1784. Buried 10th January 1784.
These six are all siblings with their parents as follows;
John Wakefield (a Watch Case Maker)
Catherine Briscoe
Died 17th September 1782. Buried 19th September 1782.
Married at St Peters in Liverpool (do not know the year yet).
In my head this information throw up lots of questions, do gravestones still exist at this church that may give more information? Why were some of the siblings buried the day after their death? Are records of these baptisms and burials available online? Why is there no information regarding Roberts birth and baptism? And, finally when were John and Catherine married?
Any help is always really appreciated.
Thanks for your time.
Luke
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Hi Luke,
FreeReg has the marriage as follows:
Liverpool, St Peter, 2nd Aug 1769.
John Wakefield of Liverpool, Watch Case Maker
Catherine Briscoe Spinster of Liverpool
Witnesses:
Will Crook & Thos Vernon
Notes:
Banns read 2nd, 9th & 16th July. Bride made her mark.
Link to marriage here: https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5817f94fe93790eb7ff47efd?search_id=5bba7f59f493fdbd0095e974&ucf=false
Hope this helps
Kind regards
David
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Thanks DavidJP that's great stuff
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are you saying these deaths/burials you have posted are buried in St Nicks ?...there is a Bar - Ma Boyles next to the Gardens of rememberance there which I go to and sit outside ...I am under the impression only very important people are buried in St Nicks ???..where did you get your info from ??...
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did these 3 die of a disease ?? seem very close together - within 5 weeks of each other
Burial: ? Sep 1782 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Peggy Wakefield - Daughter of John Wakefield & Catherine
Died: 30 Aug 1782
Abode: Vernon street
Occupation: Watch case maker
..................................
Burial: 19 Sep 1782 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Catherine Wakefield - Wife of John Wakefield
Died: 17 Sep 1782
Abode: Vernon street
Occupation: Watch case maker
...................................
Burial: ? Oct 1782 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Charlotte Wakefield - Daughter of John Wakefield & late Catherine
Died: 1 Oct 1782
Abode: Vernon street
Occupation: Watch case maker
Notes: [burial date obscured, between 1 and 7 October]
..........................................
Burial: 10 Jan 1784 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Robert Wakefield - Son of John Wakefield & Catherine
Died: 9 Jan 1784
Abode: St Paul's Square
Occupation: Watch case maker
John has moved from Vernon St to St Pauls Square
looks to me like John had a few bob as St Nicks were quite fussy who was buried there - People came from over the River Mersey - Birkenhead / Neston / Wallasey / Rock Ferry / Eastham - all the ferry ports to MARRY at St Nicks because it is a BIG wonderful church - a status symbol for money people - I am intrigued now - next time I go to Ma Boyles I will have a look in the Rememberance Garden for any Wakefield .. :)
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Not sure which church your burials were in but St Peters no longer exists. There is just a brass Maltese cross in the pavement marking where it once stood. I believe that when it closed all the graves were dug up and the remains transferred to Anfield Cemetery.
St Nicholas church is in a very built up areaand if it has a graveyard, it must be very small. Burial ceremonies took place there but I don't think that is where the actual interrment took place. The following quote is from Wikipedia
In 1849 the churchyard was closed to burials. In 1891 it was transformed into a public garden in memory of James Harrison, whose shipping company had its offices facing the churchyard until the early 21st century.
No idea what happened to the remains in the graves, whether they were moved or just paved over.
Emeltom
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Thank you all for your input here. All the information on these siblings came from a website called Herology which I was guided towards by another member here at rootschat. As John Wakefield had a trade it gave me four listings for, I presume, his shop. In additional information it listed the births, baptisms and burials I mentioned in the post. I haven't found a death or probate for John but perhaps his job was more sought after than I'd thought. I don't know if he continues his career beyond Roberts death and I only guessed at there being a grave stone as they had dates of death and of burial listed but I suppose that's a lot more consistent with burial records Garstonite. Thank you Garstonite, Emeltom and DavidJP you're really helping to bring this all to life again. I do wonder about the three deaths being so close but I don't know how we'd ever know for sure.
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Have you looked at the Lancs opc site. It confirms some of the details you have. By the time daughter Catherine died in 1792 John and Catherine were already deceased. I can see a death for Catherine wife of John, watchmaker in 1782 but can't find anything for John.
Emeltom
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Thanks Emeltom, its says on that record that he died in ireland and that his wife had been a widow. So he must have died before 1782
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As people have said St Nicholas is a landscaped cemetery now there may be transcriptions of this family's gravestones on Family Search. You should be able to find original record images for both these popular C of E Liverpool churches on Ancestry and Family Search. Do you use either? Ancestry is available free in some libraries and if you aren't familiar with accessing non-searchable record images on Family Search have a look at this thread:-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=770691.0
Blue
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Here's a link to the 1769 marriage record image at St Peter's CE Liverpool on Family Search viewable when registered and signed in. This record is not downloadable but you can take a screen image copy of the record instead:-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9KJ-QZYF?cat=122430
Blue
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Regarding the deaths on Lancs opc for John and Catherine. On the entry for Catherine's death it states that she is the wife of John, not the widow, implying that John is still alive.
I'm beginning to wonder could there be two John Wakefields?
Regarding the comment that John died in Ireland. Don't forget that any information given at a burial is from a third party. The person who knew all the correct details is dead so any info given comes from someone else who may or may not know the true facts.
Emeltom
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Emeltom ive looked over the other info again and in 1784 john had a shop (i think) in St Peters Square so he must have outlived his wife but 2 john wakefields who were both watch case makers married to catherines? That seems a bit of a long shot doesnt it?
Blue70 i dont have access to either at the moment but when i get money to resubscribe i'll take a look. Thank you!
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Family Search is free to register and access.
Blue
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There's an index for St. Nicholas CE Liverpool grave inscriptions on Family Search. None of the Wakefields you listed are on it. There are only two Wakefields on the index, buried in the same grave: Samuel Wakefield, an innkeeper, of High street who died in 1778 and Mary Wakefield, innkeeper, of High street, who died in 1789. Others in this grave have the surname Calvert. St Nicholas and St Peter's were not exclusive cemeteries they were extensively used by the town's people regardless of class. Looking on Family Search some of those buried at St Nicholas were moved to other cemeteries but most were not disturbed and are still buried beneath the landscaped gardens.
Blue
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Here's a link to the original image on Family Search (it's downloadable) for that St. Nicholas 1792 burial entry that mentions the father had died in Ireland:-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJ9-CJCZ?cat=261432
Blue
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There's a John Wakefield buried in Dublin at St Werburgh 7th June 1791, age 44. No other info (you can see the image)
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie
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Lancs OPC also has..
Burial: 22 Sep 1776 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ralph Wakefield -
Died: 20 Sep 1776
Abode: Dale street
Occupation: Watch case maker and
Burial: 9 Jan 1784 St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mary Wakefield - Relict of Ralph Wakefield
Died: 6 Jan 1784
Age: 64 yrs
Abode: St Paul's Square
Occupation: Watch case maker and
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk
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There's a John Wakefield buried in Dublin at St Werburgh 7th June 1791, age 44. No other info (you can see the image)
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie
Good find. Here's a direct link to the image:-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-326-4-1-094
Blue
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Theres more info on ralph and mary,
The Herology site lists Ralph as living at 4 places as a 'watch maker and watch case maker', Frog lane in 1743, Paradise street 1746-7, Hey market 1750 and Dale street (the same as john wakefield) 1776.
It lists his family as
May Lee married Ralph Wakefield 23.05.1742
Diana born 11.02.1743 buried at St Nicholas Liverpool 1.1.1747.
Ann born 25.09.1774.
Robert buried 13.06.1746
Robert born 14.07.1750
Ralph died 22.09.1776.
With the same surname and occupation and the same address (Dale Street in 1776) do you think this is John Wakefields parent and siblings?
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It seems to fit for me in my mind.
Thank you Blue70, Bevo and Emeltom!
I think the John Wakefield burial looks potentially very exciting
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Does anyone know if there may be any records for travel to Dublin or was this even then a very regular thing that would go unrecorded?
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Does anyone know if there may be any records for travel to Dublin or was this even then a very regular thing that would go unrecorded?
It was like going from England to Wales, no records necessary. English people had been settling in Ireland for hundreds of years. They helped to develop the towns and cities. I tried to find Dublin Directories near to the date of death/burial online but couldn't find any. I think that would be something to pursue. He may be listed with his occupation on a Dublin directory or there may be relatives in Dublin that he was visiting or living with.
Blue
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Thank you Blue, i'm going to see if the Irish contingent of Rootschat can help.
Luke