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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: Gordon Hughes on Monday 08 October 18 13:21 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm trying to establish who the parents are for Haniel Davies from Glyn Ceiriog. In the 1841 census he is at Pandy Uchaf with his parents Edward Davies and Elizabeth Roberts, and other siblings. However, according to the Llangollen Advertiser he died on the 10th January 1892 at the age of 64. This puts his birth in 1827 (probably). Edward and Elizabeth got married on the 7th April 1828 at which time Edward was a widower. This suggests that Haniel was probably Edward's son by his previous marriage. Unfortunately I can't find any baptism record for Haniel and the only census record I can find for him is 1841 (which may be due to his slightly uncommon name and poor transcriptions).
I think I may know who his mother is, but I'd be interested if anyone has any further insight into Haniel and might come to the same conclusion as I have.
Many thanks, Gordon.
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Hi Gordon,
Can't find a baptism for Haniel ???
For your info - 1891 -
Haniel Davies 60 b. Llansantffraid Glyn Ceiriog, Denbighshire. Ag Lab
Elizabeth Davies wife 63 b. Llangollen, Denbighshir
Edward William Davies grandson 11 b. Llansantffraid Glyn Ceiriog, Denbighshire
RG12 Piece 4638 Folio 98 Page 18, Garth, Llansaintffraid Glyn Ceiriog.
JJ
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This is the family in 1881 - without Haniel reference RG11 5541 102 12
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There's a civil marriage record for Haniel Davies and Elizabeth Roberts, Mar Qtr 1855, Oswestry
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Is this the family in 1871 - again minus Haniel?
RG10 5684 18 13
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Thanks for all the feedback. Yes I did spot the census records minus Haniel. He was a road worker so I expect he was away from home at the time of the census, although I'm not sure how that would be captured. You'd think he'd appear as a lodger somewhere but I can't find him anywhere.
In any case, that doesn't really help me get closer to identifying his mother. I think I have a clue but I'm still working on that.
Gordon
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In the 1841 census he is at Pandy Uchaf with his parents Edward Davies and Elizabeth Roberts, and other siblings. Edward and Elizabeth got married on the 7th April 1828 at which time Edward was a widower.
Hi
I've looked at all my non-c records for Denbighshire and the online non-c ones for other neighbouring counties but can find no trace of a baptism. Have you got any baptisms for the other children of Edward and Elizabeth?
Also, note that Elizabeth was Elizabeth Edwards not Roberts . Witnesses of the marriage were Benjamin Davies and Edward Edwards .
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget,
Yes of course - I mistyped. It was Elizabeth Edwards.
So I did find an early marriage record for an Edward Davies, for the 6th June 1808, to a Mary Hughes. I'm wondering whether this is the same Edward Davies. Also given the apparent birth of Haniel in 1827 relatively close to Edward's second marriage, whether Mary died in childbirth to Haniel. It's a very long shot, but if I'm right, it would explain a fairly strong DNA match between myself (I think Mary may well be the sister to my 3g-grandmother Elizabeth Hughes) and a direct descendant of Haniel Davies.
Gordon
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The surnames are so common in Glyn :-\
Have you checked for a burial for Mary? I'm away shortly but will have a look this evening, if you don't find anything first. I've got lots of info on the area :D
Gadget
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I did check online (Findmypast where most of the Denbigh and Merioneth parish records are) but found nothing. I'd appreciate anything you can find.
Many thanks, Gordon.
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Briefly, there is a marriage between an Edward Davies and Elizabeth Roberts in 1827, Llangollen. Elizabeth is of the parish of Llantysilio. I noticed this as Edward's signature is very similar to the 1808 marriage - but bachelor/widower, etc. So maybe the all wrote similarly.
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I see that Elizabeth is a widow on the 1851(Pandy Uchaf still ) and born Glyndyfrdwy. This might be a hint that she was the Elizabeth Roberts who married and Edward Davies in 1827, Llangollen.
Do you have any birth registrations for the children b. post 1837?
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hat happened to Benjamin Baptised 10 Nov 1828, LLansanttraid GC.? It has them as living Nantyr. Edward given as a shoemaker, which he was on the 1841.
I've not found a burial and not sure about the civil reg - 2 in Corwen RD one in 1841 and one in 1844.
I don't know if you've followed him but Haniel, aged 11 on the 1841 would fit with Benjamin's dates.
Gadget
Added - no Nathaniels
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Just to fill in a census,I think in 1861 the family are at RG09/4313/60/7
Coed y Glyn,Above Lavar
Regards
Roger
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Thanks Gadget, Roger,
I did notice Benjamin's baptism but I think he's Edward and ELizabeth's son. The fact that Haniel died at the age of 64 in January 1892 suggests to me that he was born sometime in 1827 and therefore Edward's son by a previous marriage (or yes, he could possibly have been born out of wedlock).
Haniel/Nathaniel hadn't occurred to me though. An interesting thought.
Thanks again, Gordon
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He was 11 on the 1841 (June)* census which made me think that the date of birth search might be widened. I still think that the 1827 Llangollen marriage could be considered for Edward and Elizabeth. Did they have any children after 1837?
Gadget
(The latest Win10 update threw my laptop out of kilter so eventually I had to do a system restore. Hence I've not done much searching)
*Added - also 60 on the 1891 found by JJen
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On the 1841 census there's a Thomas, born 1838.
What drew me to the 1828 marriage was that one of the witnesses was a Benjamin Davies. It's not that common a name so I thinking that the son was named after another family member. However that's just speculation on my part.
Gordon
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Only Thomas that matches on the GRO index RD Corwen is Sept Q, MMN Edwards :)