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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Richard Knott on Monday 08 October 18 13:43 BST (UK)

Title: Unknown church
Post by: Richard Knott on Monday 08 October 18 13:43 BST (UK)
Does anyone recognise this building?
The cinquefoil windows within the gothic arch might be distinctive - Victorian?
It looks like an Edwardian/!st WW photo and was with a couple of photos from a school in Weston-Super-Mare, Somerset, but the teacher is different to the others, so that may be a red herring.
I have no idea whether the large trophy helps, but I don't know what it is.
Richard
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: arthurk on Monday 08 October 18 14:36 BST (UK)
First thoughts - it looks like the cloisters of whatever establishment it is, because of the large windows going down almost to ground level.

It's usually cathedrals rather than parish churches that have cloisters, but I haven't found any with cinquefoils like that. Salisbury has them, but the top ones there are bigger than the other two.

Given the make-up of the group with the schoolmaster in the middle, I wonder if this is actually a school rather than a church/cathedral. That might also account for the stonework looking fairly recent and uneroded (ie Victorian rather than 14th-15th century). In fact, I even wonder if the tracery (the bars etc between the panes of glass) in the windows might be wood rather than stone, but that too would point to Victorian gothic revival rather than something much older.
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: josey on Monday 08 October 18 14:46 BST (UK)
I agree with arthurk; may be a 'house' of a public school showing their trophies from a particular year.
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: despair on Monday 08 October 18 15:17 BST (UK)
Deleted,mistake,sorry.
Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: AJ100 on Monday 08 October 18 15:21 BST (UK)
Agree - a public school Cadet corps with trophies. Taken 1890's to 1920 ish. Wide date range as the Eton collars were used over many years as was the early style of army uniform.

AJ
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: josey on Monday 08 October 18 15:24 BST (UK)
Perhaps a high resolution scan of just the central trophy may help.
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: Treetotal on Monday 08 October 18 15:27 BST (UK)
Can you post a copy of the back please...is it a postcard?
Carol
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: Karen McDonald on Monday 08 October 18 15:43 BST (UK)
It looks a bit like crossed keys in the lower part of the main trophy...

best regards,
Karen
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: despair on Monday 08 October 18 15:45 BST (UK)
Similar in feel to a photo  Westminster School Cadets WW1
Grant’s House photo 1913
Can’t copy from iPad,sorry.

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: avm228 on Monday 08 October 18 15:52 BST (UK)
Having spent (some of) my formative years at Westminster, I am pretty sure that is not it! (Will be suitably embarrassed if I am wrong).

I agree with some others that it looks more neoGothic than Gothic, so perhaps not one of the ancient public schools but a substantial 19thC one?  Or at least one which was developed a lot at that time?
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: Sc00p on Monday 08 October 18 16:24 BST (UK)
Exeter cathedral has similarities.
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: Regorian on Monday 08 October 18 16:40 BST (UK)
Could well be Exeter cathedral. It's clean now but the window and butress is the same. 
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: avm228 on Monday 08 October 18 16:56 BST (UK)
Could well be Exeter cathedral. It's clean now but the window and butress is the same. 

Have you got a picture of the relevant part of Exeter Cathedral?  I can see a window with similarities, but the design is quatrefoil rather than cinquefoil (and not two such windows next to one another).
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: avm228 on Monday 08 October 18 16:57 BST (UK)
I must say Exeter Cathedral looks lovely - never been there  :)
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: Richard Knott on Monday 08 October 18 18:51 BST (UK)
Thanks for the suggestions. I, too, think the building is neo-Gothic (see first post) and agree that it looks like a cloister. I worried that some of the boys were too young for a traditional House group, although they may just look young.

I'll try to post a higher scan of the trophy but that will have to be tomorrow.

R
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: Treetotal on Monday 08 October 18 19:26 BST (UK)
Thanks for the suggestions. I, too, think the building is neo-Gothic (see first post) and agree that it looks like a cloister. I worried that some of the boys were too young for a traditional House group, although they may just look young.

I'll try to post a higher scan of the trophy but that will have to be tomorrow.

R


...and the reverse of the photo if you have it please.
Carol
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: Regorian on Tuesday 09 October 18 08:32 BST (UK)
Here's a relevant crop of windows and butress with statue to orientate. Cathedral Church of St Peter.

Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: despair on Tuesday 09 October 18 08:41 BST (UK)
The general format of this is similar,though obviously not the location!

http://firstworldwar.westminster.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/19180918_-Todd-HS.jpg

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: Richard Knott on Tuesday 09 October 18 09:09 BST (UK)
It's still not much clearer I'm afraid.

There's nothing on the back of the photograph, but the mount does have an impression showing that it was taken by J Russell & Son, of 51 Baker St. They were at 17 Baker St in 1889 and 51 Baker St by 1917 but I don't know when they moved. They also had branches in Sussex and elsewhere.

Richard
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: Treetotal on Tuesday 09 October 18 09:46 BST (UK)
It's not 1890s as it would most likely be a cabinet card.
Carol
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: despair on Tuesday 09 October 18 10:24 BST (UK)
Clutching at the the same straw again,is there a similarity in the shield and this from Westminster School?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Official_rendition_of_the_Coat_of_arms_of_Westminster_School.svg

Roger
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: avm228 on Tuesday 09 October 18 10:54 BST (UK)
Yes, I may have to eat my words about my alma mater Westminster  :-[ <humble pie emoji>

See this photo (if you can):

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/28/pictures-day-28-may-2018/westminster-abbey-gardener-comac-conolly-pushes-lawnmower-new/

Or google (images) “Westminster Abbey cloister garth”.
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: arthurk on Tuesday 09 October 18 11:48 BST (UK)
Well found, everyone!

More photos of the cloisters and Capability Brown memorial fountain at:
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/L7pxp6E9IgN/Westminster+Abbey+Unveils+New+Fountain+Commemorating/TZ0rljYnD3K

A street view of the cloister before the fountain was installed:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mu1/
(This took me to the map, but if you drag the man to the blue blob on the south side of the cloister there's a good view)

Westminster School Archives (who might be interested in it and/or be able to give further information):
https://www.westminster.org.uk/about/our-history/archives-and-collections/
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: Sc00p on Tuesday 09 October 18 12:13 BST (UK)
Same trophy/shield?
http://firstworldwar.westminster.org.uk/?p=224 (http://firstworldwar.westminster.org.uk/?p=224)
Title: Re: Unknown church
Post by: Richard Knott on Tuesday 09 October 18 12:29 BST (UK)
Excellent; thanks.
I'll send the photo to Westminster!

Richard