RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: gracol on Monday 08 October 18 21:14 BST (UK)
-
Records show he was baptised at Upton on Severn Worcestershire on 25 Apr 1848.
On 15 Feb 1866 he was baptised at Newnham Gloucestershire,his date of birth given as 22 Apr 1848,he was baptised with his brothers-Albert William Davies (born 1845),Joseph Henry (born 1846),and Alfred Edwin (born 1849).
Would be interested to hear of any similar record or if this is fairly unique.?
-
It's not unique. A trio of my great-aunts were done at one go when they were small children. Each had been baptised as babies in another Christian denomination.
Did the 2 churches in which Charles was baptised belong to the same denomination?
Were the boys parents alive and living with them at time of later baptism? The young men might have needed to produce baptism certificates for some reason (e.g. Confirmation, marriage) and not known if/when/where they were baptised so had another ceremony.
Was Charles 1st baptism noted as private (possibly abbreviated to P) ? If so it may have been an emergency baptism at home for a weak or sickly baby in danger of death. If the baby recovered it was customary to have another ceremony later in the church.
-
Very many thanks Maiden Stone.
Have now discovered two more of William & Ann Wood's children were baptised years after their birth,although not apparently second baptisms ---
Daniel William Wood ,birth 1853 Hanley Castle.Baptised Berkeley 17 Feb 1869 (described as "adult").
Henrietta Sophia Wood,birth 1855 Newent.Baptised with Daniel.
Wonder why not baptised in 1866 with their siblings?
Both parents were alive in 1881.
No indication of baptisms being Private,would guess no change of denomination.
Colin
-
It does happen.
One of my more 'colourful' Cornish ancestors had his first four children baptised together in 1810, then the next group in 1816 - included in the second batch was the youngest of the four baptised in 1810. All in the same CofE parish church.
Several of this ancestor's kin went in for batch baptisms - occasionally children were omitted.
Philip
-
I've come across batch baptisms when browsing registers. Often it was around same time as the new baby was baptised.
What denomination were the baptisms in 1866 and 1869?
-
Many thanks for your replies.
The 1866 and 1869 baptisms I found on Ancestry --Gloucestershire Church of England Baptisms.
Charles Awre Wood's baptism in 1848 ,again Ancestry --England Select Births & Christenings,so maybe assume C of E ?
Colin
-
Charles Awre Wood's baptism in 1848 ,again Ancestry --England Select Births & Christenings,so maybe assume C of E ?
The only thing I'm sure of with the collection is that they were births and christenings which took place in England.
Have you seen the images of the parish registers for any of them?
Did any of the brothers marry around 1866? It's customary/desirable for newly married couples to receive Communion. Usual sequence in C. of E. was Baptism, Confirmation, Communion. A candidate for Confirmation would have needed proof of baptism. If s/he wasn't born in the parish and couldn't provide proof of baptism in another parish, the curate/vicar might have decided to baptise her/him to ensure it was done.
The 2 younger children were aged around 14 and 16 when they were baptised. This suggests to me that they were preparing for Confirmation. The 4 elder ones may have been baptised before their Confirmation ceremony too. If they lived in a rural parish several years might elapse between bishop's visits, so several children in a family would be presented for Confirmation at one occasion. The 2 younger children may have been considered not ready for Confirmation in 1866.
-
Thanks Maiden Stone for your reply.
Am discovering more of their parents William & Ann Wood ,have discovered Williams first wife died very young and there were further children.
Will reply when I have found out all I can.
-
Re my question as to whether any of the young men married around 1866, reply #6. There were sometimes baptisms of adults shortly before they married. A famous recent example is Megan Markle. She underwent a course of instruction in Anglican beliefs and received Baptism and Confirmation before her marriage to Prince Harry. Her parents belong to 2 different Christian denominations but she hadn't been baptised as a child. The Confirmation ceremony was because she wants to take Holy Communion when she attends church with Harry.
-
Many thanks for your interesting reply.
I seem to have found all I can about the father William Wood (1814-1882) born Maiseyhampton who was a miller.He had a tragic early life,in 1839 he married Eliza Davies (born 1817) at St Nicholas Gloucester.
Soon after she died and was buried 1840,Aug 6 at Dymock.
Their daughter Eliza Ann Wood was Baptised a few weeks later on Sept 27 1840 at Dymock (she died in 1918).
1841 Census shows William lodging in Awre ,miller,but not with Eliza Ann.
Cannot find Eliza Ann in the 1841 Census ???
In 1843 William married Ann Davies in Cheltenham Parish Church.
The four sons baptised together in 1866----Albert William Davies married 1869 Apr/May/June.Joseph Henry marr 1875,Charles Awre marr 1879,Alfred Edwin marr 1888.
Henry James born 1851 was unmarried in 1881.
The two baptisms in 1869---Daniel William born 1853 was unmarried in 1881,and Henrietta Sophia born 1855 married in 1887.
Will investigate to try to find if Williams two wives Eliza Davies and Ann Davies were related.
-
William Wood's two wives were indeed sisters.
Ann baptised July 4 1813,parents John & Mary Davies,abode Forest of Dean (Extraparochial),labourer.Baptism record Chapelry of Blakeney.Also identical baptism record in Parish of Awre & Chapelry of Blakeney.
Eliza baptised 1816 Oct 6 Parish of Dymock,description same but abode Dymock.
As mentioned in previous post would like to find Eliza Ann Wood in the 1841 Census,she would be less than a year old ?
-
William Wood's two wives were indeed sisters.
Was that allowed?
-
William Wood's two wives were indeed sisters.
Was that allowed?
"Forbidden Marriage Laws of the United Kingdom"
Table 22 List of Forbidden Marriages:
A Table of Kindred and Affinity
"A man may not marry his …. Wife's Sister"
"A woman may not marry her …. Sister's Husband"
These rules were drawn up by Church of England and remained in force 1560- early 20th century.
(Genetic and Quantitative Aspects of Genealogy)
www.genetic-genealogy.co.uk/Toc115570145
I don't know if a widower was allowed to marry his sister-in-law.
Edit. Link doesn't work.
-
The religious and legal situation in regard to a man marrying the sister of his deceased wife in England was a grey area until 1835.
Widowers did marry their sisters-in-law e.g. a brother of Jane Austen married his deceased wife's sister and the marriage lasted over 30 years. Before 1835 a marriage within the prohibited degree was not absolutely void but could be voided "at the suit of any interested party".
1835 Marriage Act prohibited future marriages of widowers to their sisters-in-law although it validated any which had already taken place.
1842 Marriage to Deceased Wife's Sister's Bill was defeated in Parliament.
This was followed by many attempts to amend the law. Agitation for change increased in 1860s.
1907 Deceased Wife's Sister's Marriage Act finally allowed a widower to marry his dead wife's sister.
A clause in this Act permitted individual clergy to refuse to conduct a marriage that would have been previously prohibited.
Widows had to wait until 1921 before they could legally marry their deceased husband's brother.
1921 Deceased Brother's Widow's Marriage Act
1924 Deceased Brother's Widow's Marriage Act (Northern Ireland) This was to remove any doubt as to whether the legislation applied to the new state of Northern Ireland.
NB There was separate legislation in Scotland (various dates).
See:
Deceased Wife's sister's Marriage Act 1907 (Wikipedia)
Marriage Act (Amendment) 1835 (Hansard)
"The 65 Year Battle over the Deceased Wife's Sister's Marriage Act"
Marriage Act 1835 text (repealed by Parliament of Western Australia 2014)
Affinity - kinship relationship between 2 people created as a result of someone's marriage.
I wonder if there was any connection between William marrying his sister-in-law and you not finding baptisms for most offspring of the marriage. I see that William's 2 marriages were in different towns/cities and that the son's infant baptism was in another county. They may not have known that their marrriage was invalid.
-
As mentioned in previous post would like to find Eliza Ann Wood in the 1841 Census,she would be less than a year old ?
Have you tried all versions of Elizabeth? I've included nickname and phonetic options when I searched for Elizabeth among my ancestors' records. Sometimes the search doesn't find them all. Mine were frequently Betty. Your Eliza may have been Lizzie. Try omitting Ann. Try Ann(e) as 1st name.
Be flexible with age. My 3xGGM's baby was down as 5 years old on a transcription of 1841 census. The baby died shortly after the census and GRO index has him as 5 years old too. He wasn't the only baby whose age was transcribed as years instead of months.
Eliza might have been with relatives or boarded-out with unrelated people. Have you located Ann Davies or her parents in 1841?
-
Many ,many thanks Maiden Stone for the very interesting and detailed replies.
An unlawful marriage then,maybe he was aware of this resulting in the late baptisms,certainly moved around and in very rural areas (extra parochial in some records).
Thank you for the hints but up till now still haven't been able to discover Eliza Ann or her parents in the 1841 census,will keep trying.
Thanks again.
(My tree is on Ancestry-Green Family Tree-colingreen91-with full details of the Woods (photos) and Davies.
-
If any of my ancestors had been christened Eliza Ann she would have been called "Lizeran" and spoken of as "ower Lizeran".
-
Had an ancestor,she played the mouthorgan very well,she was "our Monica".!!
Wonder if anyone can find Eliza Ann Wood in the 1841 census,baptised Dymock 1840,or her parents in this census ,William Wood born 1813 Maiseyhampton and Eliza born 1816 ??
-
This is just an aside re a Victorian widower marrying his sister-in-law. It concerns the mother of Rev. Dr. Benjamin Nightingale of Lancashire. This is from his autobiography. "My mother survived my father ….. and late in life, married my father's brother, James, whose previous wife was Nancy Brindle, my mother's sister." ("The Story of My Life", a series of 3 autobiographical articles printed in "The Blackburn Times"; reproduced in "Notable Names of Blackburn & Darwen" section of "Cottontown" website)
www.cottontown.org
Just as well the marriage happened "late in life"; if the 2nd marriage had produced children their family tree would have been even more complex. ???
Rev. Nightingale stated that one of his grandmothers had 22 children; a large proportion of village inhabitants may have been his aunts and uncles.