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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: solidrock on Tuesday 09 October 18 07:45 BST (UK)
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Hi, looking for help to find the arrival of the Morris family around 1844/5. Not much to go on really appart from the daughter Mary Morris born c 1842, Chatham, England, according to her burial record. Her obituary says she arrived at the age of 2 with her parents her father being Pte.Morris of the 99th.Regiment in Hobart Town barracks. Mary married Thomas John Donnolly 7 Dec 1859, Launceston. Her second marriage was to Michael Mahoney 25 Feb 1879, Port Sorell. Mary died 23 Jun 1918, Hobart. Any help to find her parents and arrival would be very much appreciated. Thank you.
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http://monumentaustralia.org.au/themes/conflict/colonial/display/70335-99th-regiment-memorial
Hi there,
Many years ago I read about the above mentioned monument, the first memorial commemorating the Fallen. I am sure that I will have hardcopy of other information on the regiment. I will search for it over the next couple of days. Meanwhile, I hope other RChatters will be along shortly, with further info for you.
JM
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Thank you majm, I have already checked the monument and as far as I can see there is no list of the names and all the photo's are illegible.
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https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD37-1-18p268j2k
Here is the image of Mary's 1859 marriage, no middle name for her husband on that register. His occupation listed as Military.
JM
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Thanks again, already have that, he's Thomas John Donnolly.
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BDM TAS
Baptist Chapel York St, Launceston 7 Dec 1859 Henry DOWLING
MORRIS Mary 22y spinster (x)
DONNELLY Thomas 24y bachelor Military
witnesses John CONNELL Emma ARCHER
birth
DONNELLY Thomas Robert b. 1 Jan 1861 informant mother (x) Davy Street
parents Thomas DONNELLY Private 12th Regiment, Mary formerly MORRIS
Baptist Chapel Launceston 20 Nov 1856 James LINDSAY
MORRIS Jessy minor spinster
CONNELL John bachelor
witnesses Thos D**GAN, Sarah MAHONY
Tasmanian Daily News 23 Oct 1857 p3
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/201339946?
John Connell, a private of H.M. 12th regt., was charged with assaulting and beating his
wife Jessie Connell, on the night of the 17th instant...........Mrs. Connell's brother...........
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Thank you wivenhoe, but I already have all that info. What I am looking for is Mary Morris's parents and arrival in Tas.
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Thank you majm, I have already checked the monument and as far as I can see there is no list of the names and all the photo's are illegible.
Hi,
:) Have you considered contacting that website's webmaster to see if they can send you bigger/clearer images of those photos?
:) Have you contacted the Monument Australia organisation for access to their database for that monument? http://www.monumentaustralia.org.au/contact
:) Have you considered seeking names of the 99th regiments rank and file who were sent to VDL or NSW or NZ during the 1840s and 1850s .... http://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/research/history-of-regiments/the-99th-lanarkshire-regiment-1824-1881 there is a phone number top right hand corner of that webpage, and at their contact us page, they are located in England. http://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/contact-us
:) Have you searched through Trove digitised newspapers for any list of subscribers to the memorial's fund? https://trove.nla.gov.au/
It may be several days before I may have a spare moment or so to access my archived boxes covering the 1840s British Army in NSW etc.
I am not sure if the following book would be available in England, but I will note it here, just in case : https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/15410302 The British Army in Australia 1788-1870 : index of personnel
May I also mention that the surname MORRIS would be recorded in longhand, and in my experience it can be mis-recorded and prone to mis-transcription. I have seen it as MARRIS, MANNIS, MORRES, and as HARRIS etc. I notice that in Mary's obit, it is recorded as MORROS. Her first husband's surname is recorded there as DONNELLY.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/65110470 North Western Advocate 11 July 1918.
JM
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Thank you wivenhoe, but I already have all that info. What I am looking for is Mary Morris's parents and arrival in Tas.
Errr....Solidrock, ... from the sightings that wivenhoe has posted, it seems that Mary was not an only child .... so what information do you already have on Mary's siblings? Afterall, perhaps there will be mention of their parents on their records?
JM
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Errr....Solidrock, ... from the sightings that wivenhoe has posted, it seems that Mary was not an only child .... so what information do you already have on Mary's siblings? Afterall, perhaps there will be mention of their parents on their records?
JM
[/quote]
Have checked these, 7 Dec 1859 is the first marriage of Mary, no clue as to her parents.
1 Jan 1861 is the birth of their first son.
20 Nov 1856, Jessy could be a sibling of Mary but again no clue as to her parents.
Her burial record states that she was born Chatham,England,(which I assume is Chatham,Kent which comes under the Medway district). Born about 1842. Her obit. says she arrived with her parents at the age of 2 years.
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So, at the moment you don't know if Mary had any siblings, and if birth info for any possible siblings would include names of the parents.... Perhaps Jessy was born in VDL ... :) perhaps there's a mention somewhere in your research for Mary that she had siblings ...
Mary's obit gives likely year of birth about 1842, so have you found her likely birth registered in GRO?
JM
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At marriage, 1859, Mary MORRIS gives her age as 22 years. This would be more accurate than an age given by an informant many years later at her death. I think 1837 is a more likely birth date.
You cannot research Mary in isolation. Your best chance is to try to trace anyone associated with her, who would seem to be Jessy, and her un named brother. They are possibly Mary's siblings.
If the obit gives Mary's father as Private MORRIS, you might think it would also give his given name. Possibly Mary does not know the name eg. her memory / knowledge of him is not her own - passed on to her.
If Private MORRIS is named on the monument, and died in the Maori Wars in NZ, then the absence of this significant piece of information from family history would suggest that Mary knows even less about him.
How does Mary name her children?.
The Courier 22 Apr 1845 p3
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2948837?
...Private MORRIS severely mounded New Zealand.......96th Regiment.....
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Here's a birth of an Anne to William Lauther Morris (Private 99th Regt) and Bridget (formerly Dwyer) 16 May 1849 Hobart
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD33-1-3-p188j2k
M
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If Mary had siblings then Jessy could be one and there's a mention of a brother to Jessy in the coury report in Trove,
"Mrs. Connell's brother deposed to having
heard screams proceed from his sister's bed
room on the night in question."
Jessy married John Connell in 1856, there is a birth for Sewell, Given Name Not Recorded in 1860.
Father: Sewell, John. Mother: Morris, Jessy.
Could the Sewell/Connell be the same person.
There are records in Ancestry tree's that show Mary born Dublin 1837 but they appear to have been copies from one tree with no source.
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Here's a birth of an Anne to William Lauther Morris (Private 99th Regt) and Bridget (formerly Dwyer) 16 May 1849 Hobart
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD33-1-3-p188j2k
M
That's interesting, the GRO has a birth for Mary 1842 Medway, mmn Dwyer.
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Here's a birth of an Anne to William Lauther Morris (Private 99th Regt) and Bridget (formerly Dwyer) 16 May 1849 Hobart
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD33-1-3-p188j2k
M
and sadly her death the following year
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD35-1-3p16j2k
also the death of the mother in 1853
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD35-1-4p64j2k
adding: aged 31 Lance Corporal's wife
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Marriage Hobart 1856 William L Morris, soldier, to Isabella Gardiner
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD37-1-15p162j2k
Has ages as 21 but can assume from other entries that they mean above 21
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matthewj64 your a star, now we seem to be getting some where.
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Birth 1851 Hobart of George William Morris
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD33-1-4-p347j2k
The father signs it as 'W Lauther Morris' to my eyes
M
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Application for admission to the Queens Orphanage
Applicant M* SEWELL, Ware Street Hobart November 1st 1860
William MORRIS 8 years protestant,
Father William Louther MORRIS, free, pension, arrived Lord Petric Lefroy, died Dec 1859 by accident at Fingal.
Mother Bridget MORRIS, died 7 years hence, arrived free Lord Petric Lefroy
Admitted 17 Dec 1861
Margaret Louther MORRIS 9 years details for parents as for William
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Application for admission to the Queens Orphanage
Applicant M* SEWELL, Ware Street Hobart November 1st 1860
William MORRIS 8 years protestant,
Father William Louther MORRIS, free, pension, arrived Lord Petric Lefroy, died Dec 1859 by accident at Fingal.
Mother Bridget MORRIS, died 7 years hence, arrived free Lord Petric Lefroy
Admitted 17 Dec 1861
Margaret Louther MORRIS 9 years details for parents as for William
Maybe thats when they arrived 15th October, 1843 on the Lord Petric. The 99th. regiment did accompany convicts but only the convicts are listed on the manifest.
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Application in 1860 to the Orphan School for William Morris aged 8
Father William Lauther Morris died Dec 1859 by accident at Fingal
Mother Bridget Morris died seven years since
Ship - Lord Petrie to Sydney
Applicant "Mrs Sewell eldest daughter of the late William Morris..."
3 pages
https://stors.tas.gov.au/SWD26-1-3$init=SWD26-1-3p595j2k (https://stors.tas.gov.au/SWD26-1-3$init=SWD26-1-3p595j2k)
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Launceston Examiner 29 Dec 1859 p2 Fingal
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/38998606?
...death of William MORRIS......wife and five children...
Inquest record, 27 Dec 1859, to see for William Luther MORRIS
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Orphan School entry for William Morris discharged 1865
https://www.orphanschool.org.au/showorphan.php?orphan_ID=3950
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https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD35-1-28p31j2k
Death for William Louther MORRIS Dec 1859, Fingal
JM
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Continuing from reply #13
TAS BDM marriage 29 Jul 1858 Hobart
SEWELL John, 30 yrs, bachelor, butcher
CONNELL Jesse, 23 yrs, spinster,
witnesses Mary MORRIS, Joseph MORRELL
The name is indexed at Tesse MORRIS, but is Jesse when compared to other upper case "J"
From Intention to Marry record, for length of residence (Hobart Town) John SEWELL is three years, Jesse CONNELL is two years.
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Further to the admission of Margaret MORRIS to thee Queens Orphanage, 1861 -
...brother was this child was admitted Nov. 1860....married sister residing at Newtown....has now gone to New Zealand......
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Application for admission to the Queens Orphanage.
William Louther MORRIS, free, pension, arrived Lord Petric.
Mother Bridget MORRIS, died 7 years hence, arrived free Lord Petric.
Where it says arrived free, not sure as to what that means, is it free passage.
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Application for admission to the Queens Orphanage.
William Louther MORRIS, free, pension, arrived Lord Petric.
Mother Bridget MORRIS, died 7 years hence, arrived free Lord Petric.
Where it says arrived free, not sure as to what that means, is it free passage.
Arrived free means they did not arrive under a sentence, so arrived free (of any current civil sentence)
JM
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Lord Petre, convict ship
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4106735?descriptiontype=Full&ref=ADM+101/44/8
TNA :) has the following ...
Medical and surgical journal of Her Majesty’s convict ship Lord Petre ....
....
Reference: ADM 101/44/8
uploaded to Ancestry :)
those journals can often include names of family members of garrison forces who were sent as guards on those voyages.
JM
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"Arrived free means they did not arrive under a sentence, so arrived free (of any current civil sentence)"
So we can assume that Mary's story that she arrived with her parents and that Wiiliam was Pte. Morris possibly accompanying the convicts. ;D
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This for John SEWELL, wife Jessy formerly CONNELL, nee MORRIS, and son Henry -
QLD State Records Reformatory Boys School admissions Feb 1875
http://www.archivessearch.qld.gov.au/Image/DigitalImageDisplay.aspx?ImageId=7043
Henry SEWELL, 14 years, born Tasmania, tried Maryborough, father John SEWELL, butcher. for two years.
Maryborough Chronicle, Wide Bay and Burnett Advertiser 2 Feb 1875 p2
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/148506726?
........mother left six or seven years ago..........
BDM QLD death
1948 C1920 Henry SEWELL parents John / Jessie Morris
Search Maryborough papers for death of John SEWELL, 1898, and Henry SEWELL.
Also for domestic dramas for John and Jessy in 1860s.
It is interesting to see that Henry's family knows about his MORRIS origins. He was very young when mother left, and you might think that father John is hardly likely to keep knowledge of her alive. I wonder if there is any other MORRIS family around?
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Application for admission to the Queens Orphanage
Applicant M* SEWELL, Ware Street Hobart November 1st 1860
William MORRIS 8 years protestant,
Father William Louther MORRIS, free, pension, arrived Lord Petric Lefroy, died Dec 1859 by accident at Fingal.
Mother Bridget MORRIS, died 7 years hence, arrived free Lord Petric Lefroy
Admitted 17 Dec 1861
Margaret Louther MORRIS 9 years details for parents as for William
Still can't find the births for the above or for Jessy.
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They are probably among the numerous unrecorded births, in which case you have to hope to find a baptism.....somewhere.
What use would a birth record for Margaret MORRIS and brother William Louther MORRIS be to you?
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At Williams death it says he left 5 children, I have only got 3, 2 still alive at his death.
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For the purpose of good research, and so we know where we are going with this, can you please identify the three children and where you see them.
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They are probably among the numerous unrecorded births, in which case you have to hope to find a baptism.....somewhere.
What use would a birth record for Margaret MORRIS and brother William Louther MORRIS be to you?
At Williams death it says he left 5 children, I have only got 3.
For the purpose of good research, and so we know where we are going with this, can you please identify the three children and where you see them.
A question if I may ... does the marriage of Mary MORRIS in 1859 indicate it was a Baptist ceremony? if so, were Mary's parents of that denomination? If so, I think it unlikely to find any of Mary's siblings were baptised as babies/children. Baptists practise Adult baptism.
(re-posting live link to the marriage here to save others scrolling back)
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD37-1-18p268j2k
JM
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At Williams death it says he left 5 children, I have only got 3, 2 still alive at his death.
Did you add to this post?
JM
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More than one person by name of William MORRIS, in the Fingal area...
William MORRIS general storekeeper. Fingal Stores.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/38998413 13 December 1859 Launceston Examiner
and there's the man employed by the Midland Company, helping the carpenter, noted as leaving a widow and five children.... a labourer
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/38998606 29 December 1859
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/38998817 12 January 1860
leaving a WIDOW and five children ...
Perhaps that's errr ... three chaps named William MORRIS were in Fingal in December 1859 ...
JM
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Mary Morris
Chatham, Kent, England
Christening Date 06 Mar 1842
Christening Date (Original) 6 Mar 1842
Christening Place St. Mary, Chatham, Kent, England
Father's Name William Lauther Morris
Mother's Name Bridget Morris
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Morris, William Louther
25 Dec 1859
Male 56
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Morris, William Louther
25 Dec 1859
Male 56
https://stors.tas.gov.au/RGD35-1-28p31j2k
Death for William Louther MORRIS Dec 1859, Fingal
JM
:)
JM
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Hi,
You note that you have 2 children living when William Lauther MORRIS died in December 1859, and his obit mentions he left a widow and 5 children.
His first wife, Bridget died in 1853, and he re-married.
From his first marriage, there were at least FOUR children still alive when he died:
His eldest daughter was Jessy SEWELL, formerly Mrs CONNELL and it was Jessy who in took her brother William (aged 8 ) to the orphanage ...
William’s sister Margaret (aged 9) was admitted to the orphanage and on her admission papers it shows a) Jessy had moved to New Zealand and b) Margaret’s parents were William and Bridget and both were deceased. Bridget was noted there as Roman Catholic. I mention that denomination as it may well be that William was already in the Army when he married, and perhaps the marriage was not registered in GRO.
So, there’s at least FOUR alive in 1860 in Tasmania whose parents were William Lauther MORRIS and Bridget DWYER:
Jessy (eldest daughter) SEWELL, formerly CONNELL, nee Morris See replies #5, #19, #25
Mary DONNELLY nee Morris See replies# 4, #5, #25
Margaret MORRIS See replies #19, #26
William MORRIS See replies #5, #18, #19, #21, #23
Also Anne born 1849 See reply # 12 died 1850 See reply # 15
Bridget’s death 1853, and so William remarried, likely the younger children by Bridget stayed with Jessy ... so perhaps the fifth living child noted in the obit was from the second marriage …
JM
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"You note that you have 2 children living when William Lauther MORRIS died in December 1859, and his obit mentions he left a widow and 5 children."
What I should have said to make it more clear is that I only have the birth records of 2 living children.
Margaret, William and Jessy's birth are what I'm looking for. If Jessy was a minor when she married in 1856 then I assume she must have been born after 1835 more than likely in England.
Regarding the marriage between William and Bridget. I think Bridget may have been Irish and they married in Ireland.
Interesting fact if William was with the 99th. regiment.....
In February 1816 the regiment was renumbered as the 99th Regiment of Foot (Prince Regent's County of Dublin Regiment), then withdrawn to England in 1818 to be disbanded at Chatham.
Mary Morris was born in Chatham.
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I think you are only missing Jessy's birth/baptism.
:) Jessy was born before Mary, so you may need to check the location/s of the regiment in late 1830s to then check for Jessy's birth and also for the marriage of William and Bridget.
:) See the images as per replies #18, 20, 23 details of birth of George William and the details that were recorded re the baptisms of both William and Margaret.
JM
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Solidrock, please, if you modify your posts, please, please, NOTE that you are ADDING to it....
I had read your post when it only had the following (hence my reply # 44) :
"You note that you have 2 children living when William Lauther MORRIS died in December 1859, and his obit mentions he left a widow and 5 children."
What I should have said to make it more clear is that I only have the birth records of 2 living children.
Now it has all of this:
"You note that you have 2 children living when William Lauther MORRIS died in December 1859, and his obit mentions he left a widow and 5 children."
What I should have said to make it more clear is that I only have the birth records of 2 living children.
Margaret, William and Jessy's birth are what I'm looking for. If Jessy was a minor when she married in 1856 then I assume she must have been born after 1835 more than likely in England.
Regarding the marriage between William and Bridget. I think Bridget may have been Irish and they married in Ireland.
Interesting fact if William was with the 99th. regiment.....
In February 1816 the regiment was renumbered as the 99th Regiment of Foot (Prince Regent's County of Dublin Regiment), then withdrawn to England in 1818 to be disbanded at Chatham.
Mary Morris was born in Chatham.
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At Williams death it says he left 5 children, I have only got 3, 2 still alive at his death.
JM
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Solidrock, please, if you modify your posts, please, please, NOTE that you are ADDING to it....
I had read your post when it only had the following (hence my reply # 44) :
"You note that you have 2 children living when William Lauther MORRIS died in December 1859, and his obit mentions he left a widow and 5 children."
What I should have said to make it more clear is that I only have the birth records of 2 living children.
Now it has all of this:
"You note that you have 2 children living when William Lauther MORRIS died in December 1859, and his obit mentions he left a widow and 5 children."
What I should have said to make it more clear is that I only have the birth records of 2 living children.
Margaret, William and Jessy's birth are what I'm looking for. If Jessy was a minor when she married in 1856 then I assume she must have been born after 1835 more than likely in England.
Regarding the marriage between William and Bridget. I think Bridget may have been Irish and they married in Ireland.
Interesting fact if William was with the 99th. regiment.....
In February 1816 the regiment was renumbered as the 99th Regiment of Foot (Prince Regent's County of Dublin Regiment), then withdrawn to England in 1818 to be disbanded at Chatham.
Mary Morris was born in Chatham.
Oh, sorry, slap my wrist and give me 100 lines. ???
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Solidrock, please, if you modify your posts, please, please, NOTE that you are ADDING to it....
I had read your post when it only had the following (hence my reply # 44) :
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Oh, sorry, slap my wrist and give me 100 lines. ???
I see no reason for your flippant reply. I had read reply #43 when it was first posted and consequently I re-read earlier posts on the thread, checked my notes and typed up reply #44. It should not be too difficult a task for anyone modifying any post to note they are modifying the post, particularly when the modifications are substantially adding to the info.
JM
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Wow ... Critical ... wow ... I think it is important for quality research to be thorough, and I strive to avoid providing mis-leading factoids. Marquessate is a label that comes after 3000 posts. I am not aware of any other criteria for that label. I think you may have been mis-informed about such labels, for you too may reach 3000 posts and thereby lose your current label and become a Marquessate. I am not sure that there's any particular benefit from that label,
However, regardless of the label, I think it is important that when a post is substantially modified, that the poster notes that they have done so, otherwise, anyone reading the thread in the future may be confused by an apparent continuity issue from post to post to post ...
Please do continue to strive for quality research in your family history hobby. I continue to enjoy helping family history buffs with their research.
I will un-notify the topic.
JM
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Solidrock, please, if you modify your posts, please, please, NOTE that you are ADDING to it....
I had read your post when it only had the following (hence my reply # 44) :
.....
Oh, sorry, slap my wrist and give me 100 lines. ???
I see no reason for your flippant reply. I had read reply #43 when it was first posted and consequently I re-read earlier posts on the thread, checked my notes and typed up reply #44. It should not be too difficult a task for anyone modifying any post to note they are modifying the post, particularly when the modifications are substantially adding to the info.
JM
You've been critical of my posts all through this thread maybe that's why your a Marquessate and I'm only a mere Aristocrat. Please do not post any more in this thread.
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Solidrock
I have just received a message from a reliable RChatter who tells me that they are unwilling to post on this thread due to your comments about me …. Anyways, I will share … it seems that FindMyPast has a military record re Private William Lowther MORRIS of the 99th Foot Regiment.
Apparently as at 1857 pension year, his pension age was 41, he was born Dundee, Forfarshire and there’s a description for him showing he was 5 ft 9 ½ inches tall. He was a tailor by trade, and had spent 11 years plus in Hobart Town.
TNS ref WO 23, piece 151 Admission book, pensions payable in the colonies.
Australian Joint Copy project may well have that WO:
https://www.nla.gov.au/microform-australian-joint-copying-project
JM
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Message to Moderator. Can you please close this thread. Thank you.
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Hi Solidrock I have completed the topic as requested.
The modify button is really there for editing typo errors and not for adding additional paragraphs which could be missed by members already with their head stuck in the research. I would normally reply to the topic with the additional information to make sure that it is not missed ;)
Regards
Sarah
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Thank you Sarah. ;D
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Noting your request here
"Please do not post any more in this thread".
Hi Solidrock.
There is no doubt you have gathered a good deal of valuable information throughout this thread which you initiated. JM has generously given much time and resources to your quest.
I do note you are a solid contributor to the inquiries of others chatters on many Rootschat boards and I am sure your kind work is appreciated there.
Initiating a thread does not give you ownership or particular rights to it and, in the true spirit of the forum, anyone may contribute to it at any time. We cannot be selective about who wants to help.
Sue