RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kerry => Topic started by: SuG on Wednesday 10 October 18 09:37 BST (UK)
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I have come up against a brick wall with birth details and therefore parents of my great grandmother Catherine Brosnan. I am pretty certain that she came from around Ballybeg . I have a birth year of 1858 and by the late 1880s she was in London with my great grandfather Thomas McDonald from Carlow. I cannot trace a marriage certificate either. Looks like the Brosnans are a large family so if anyone can help me unlock the door I would be most grateful.
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Ballybeg is here...
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ballybeg,+Co.+Kerry/@52.1455284,-10.3216581,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x484ffbded3503459:0x20baf998cbd71d89!8m2!3d52.1448625!4d-10.2537525
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Dingle Registers... IF they were RC
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0665
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There is a marriage in Cork 1878 that looks possible
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1878/11105/8064599.pdf
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C Reg Marriage results for Catherine Brosnan from 1875 to 1899 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mu8/
Marriage of THOMAS MACDONELL and KATE BROSNAN on 27 May 1878 is a possible ??
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Unfortunately no as I have the death certs and his surname name was definitely McDonald
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Unfortunately it's St.Mary's which is only on RootsIreland I think, as the church record might give more information, like an address for parents.
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Baptism of CATHERINE BROSNAN of DINGLE
on 17 February 1845
Parish/Church/Congregation - DINGLE
Area - KERRY (RC)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mu9/
Is a POSSIBLE
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Unfortunately no as I have the death certs and his surname name was definitely McDonald
His surname was however it was spelt on the day. These things can change as often as the wind.
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Baptism of CATHERINE BROSNAN of FLEMINSTOWN
on 6 June 1848
Parish/Church/Congregation - DINGLE
Area - KERRY (RC)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mua/
??
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Now I am really confused :) I have other possible fathers as John, Timothy, Cornelius and Patrick !
Will persevere as I am determined to crack this one
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Yes.... you don't know what her father's name is!
There is more than one Catherine!
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Unfortunately it's St.Mary's which is only on RootsIreland I think, as the church record might give more information, like an address for parents.
St. Mary's, Cork city https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0041
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Unfortunately no as I have the death certs and his surname name was definitely McDonald
I wouldn't write that record off 100% !! McDonell McDonald
POSSIBLE!
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Unfortunately it's St.Mary's which is only on RootsIreland I think, as the church record might give more information, like an address for parents.
St. Mary's, Cork city https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0041
:D :D me head is going
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I think the one on NLI is a different St. Mary's.
The cert is St.Mary's Popes Quay.
I'm not sure which parish it's in.
http://www.dominicanscork.ie/
I'm getting a bit tied up with all the St.Mary's
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Well Thomas is a Smith on that marriage and if i have the right 1881 census he's a Farrier much the same occupation
ages pan out about same
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-MPBF
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Thomas was a farrier but I don’t have access to familysearch to get further info.
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Let's have a look at a few of the things that are bothering you.
Mac Donell v McDonald
Thomas signed with a mark on the marriage so the spelling isn't his it's the priest. McDonnell is more usual Irish spelling of the name.
Irish people often changed their name a bit to fit in better when they went abroad.
Someone will correct me if I wrong but I believe the 1881 Census entry is from an Enumerator's book, the Enumerator would have spelt the name as he commonly did, that is the way it is most commonly spelt in England.
Kate,
Would a girl from Kerry be a servant in Cork city. Yes quite possible. The fact that servant is on the cert proves she had a job, that is was not living at home. Most women are given no occupation on marriage certs of the time.
Thomas as a smith could easily have moved from Carlow to Cork, also as his father was a gardener the entire family could have moved, gardeners could move to a better job or attached to a family that employed them.
As dathai has already pointed out smith to farrier is little or no difference.
We can't prove that marriage is your Thomas and Catherine but they look very likely, that said there are some differences the ages in particular, one way to check would be to see if the couple on the marriage cert had any children in Ireland after 1881
I should do the maths before I post, even the ages are close enough.
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Unfortunately it's St.Mary's which is only on RootsIreland I think, as the church record might give more information, like an address for parents.
St. Mary's, Cork city https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0041
:D :D me head is going
I left home! ;D
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One thing I do know is that Catherine was catholic but Thomas was protestant. They are buried in the same cemetery but in their relevant religious sectors.
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One thing I do know is that Catherine was catholic but Thomas was protestant. They are buried in the same cemetery but in their relevant religious sectors.
Always good to know where people are buried.
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"When it comes to finding your Irish roots, you'll need to be rather relaxed about the spelling of your ancestors' surnames. ...."
https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/irish-roots.html
at bottom, on right!!
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mmmm but would have been more helpful to have had a headstone. Both were buried in paupers graves.
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Hi, can you tell us a bit more about the family from what you know. What names did they give their chldren? or you say the Brosnans were a big family - what other names do you know in that family. This will give us help in locating the correct family. There is more than one are known as Ballybeg in Kerry.
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Catherine was Roman Catholic from a Kerry married to Protestant Thomas McDonald from Carlow. By 1880 they were living in Islington,north London. They had 7 children - Thomas,Ellen Mary, Catherine Rose (my grandmother),Ann,Margaret,Norah,and Edward. I’d love to find the right family and visit the area to learn more. Sadly there are no members of our family left who can help.
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for reference
1891 with possible brother Edward born circa 1866 birthplace Ireland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:3B49-XW2
1901 birthplace Ireland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X987-YS7
1911 birthplace Wexford and Kerry
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWLB-DM5
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Sadly none of these are feasible. Catherine was born in Kerry around 1857-8, likewise Thomas Mcdonald in Carlow.
All of their children were born in London.
Both are buried in paupers graves in the same cemetery in north London, Catherine in the catholic area,Thomas in the Protestant area.
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Thanks for those names and links. They don't seem to have named any child Timothy after Catherine's father. There is another magic way you can find relatives. That is by doing your DNA. Have you thought about that all all? I have found it very useful.
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for reference
1891 with possible brother Edward born circa 1866 birthplace Ireland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:3B49-XW2
1901 birthplace Ireland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X987-YS7
1911 birthplace Wexford and Kerry
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWLB-DM5
I think the first is a reference to Edward McDonald/McDonnell who was apparently staying with the family in England. Aged 25 and born in Ireland. Not sure if you are searching for the family of Thomas McDonald/McDonnell but there are refs on this site, just search.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
You can also search on Family Search.
https://www.familysearch.org/
Just register and it costs nothing.
From the 1878 marriage record it looks as though Catherine's father's name was Thady or Thaddeus.
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Re Thadeus Brosnan/Brosnahan or 'Thady' as he appears on Catherine's marriage certificate in 1878.
I have often seen Brosnan spelled Brosnahan, same family name. Spelt Brosnan because the people noting the records often do not hear the 'nahan' as the h is not sounded and the voice slides a bit like the Indian bread Naan.
I have found a Thadeus Brosnahan leasing land in Ballybeg with relations? Hugh, Thomas and Michael Brosnahan on Griffiths Valuation. The lessor is a Richard Meredith and the four jointly own at least 190acres and more in varying family combinations. This is a sizeable amount of land for those days.
If you would like to check GV the ref is here. it was carried out in this County in 1853.
Location
County KERRY
Barony TRUGHANACMY
Union KILLARNEY
Parish KILLEENTIERNA
Townland BALLYBEG
Place Name BALLYBEG
Printing Date 1853
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
I would also search on the Irish genealogy site under parish of KILLEENTIERNA. It has many Brosnan/Brosnahan names
I would also list the ages as she appears .....on the 1878 marriage certificate Kate Brosnan is 18 so born 1850apx. The census data found earlier will also have some dates and her death certificate will have a date. Some where in those there will be THE date but search round those to start adding a couple of years each end to cover when in the year she was born.
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Now another lead. I have just found out that Thady is a diminutive of Timothy. So you could search for all the Timothy Brosnans or Brosnahans