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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: Sunlaws on Sunday 14 October 18 18:27 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am wondering if anyone can trace a parish record for Cyrus, who died in Bath in 1730. This is all the information I have, apart from the fact his burial cost £3:10:0.
The Bath Burial Index looked potentially useful, but can only be searched by surname, and Cyrus, a black footman/postilion, appears not to have possessed one.
All ideas gratefully received.
Lesley
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FreeREG allows you to search by forename only, as long as you specify a place. Choosing Somerset, Bath and "nearby places" covers everywhere within about 6 miles. 4 burials come up, but all 19th century. Adding Soundex and trying alternatives like Sirus finds some more but they don't match what you want.
FreeREG covers all surviving parish registers from Bath from before 1812 and most other sorts. The only exception I'm aware of is Quaker records - and they can be searched on some subscription sites, with no results. But of course not all registers survive, or are complete even if they do. The central parishes all have entries for 1730. So does Walcot, but suspiciously few. Bathwick's register is very jumbled but appears to have nothing for that year. Some of the villages a little further out have no registers from before 1750.
I notice that there are three entries in the Walcot register - one in 1729 and two in 1730 - of the form, a servant of Mr. X. They have been crossed out but are still legible. Do you know who Cyrus worked for? or his date of death or burial?
David
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This might be the one you want.
Bath, St Michael's. 7 May 1730:
a Black boy was Buried in the Church yard
David
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Thank you, David.
The family paying the £3:10:0 for his burial is Baillie, but it's a multi-generational household, so other possible names are Hamilton or Binning.
Cyrus is definitely alive in March, when he is given a Bible costing four shillings. The family start the year (1730) in Bath, spend some time in Bristol at the 'hott wells' in the middle of the year, then go back to Bath. On 8th September eight shillings is paid to 'Cyres's writing master at 1s per week'. This may be a final bill, or may not.
Regards,
Lesley
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The master's names of the three unnamed servants buried at Walcot are not quite as legible as I first thought, but enough to see they are not Baillie, Hamilton or Binning. Also the last was in June so none can be a match if Cyrus was still alive in September. The same of course applies to the Black boy buried in May.
Also you would think that if the family paid that much for the funeral, the priest could at least have put Cyrus's name in the register.
I'm afraid I can't see any other good possibilities in any of the Bath registers. There is a burial of a Bally with forename left blank at the Abbey in Dec 1731, but I imagine that's too late. (Unless - very long shot - the March payment was in 1730/31 and so the death in 1731.)
David
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Thank you for all your trouble, David. At least the avenue has been well explored, even without result.
The accounts are written by a Scot, so the dates always change in January, not March. I looked again to see if I could have mistaken the year, but the family were in Naples by December 1731, and it definitely says Cyrus was buried in Bath, so no reason to doubt the 1730. Another servant, John Runciman, died while the family were in Bristol in summer 1730, and it is specified that he was buried in Clifton, at an even more expensive £4:12:6d.
Regards,
Lesley
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I have just found a couple of payments, not related to the burial, to 'Mr Stevenson, Minister at the Meeting House', so it seems likely that Cyrus had a non-conformist burial.
Regards,
Lesley
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I have just found a couple of payments, not related to the burial, to 'Mr Stevenson, Minister at the Meeting House', so it seems likely that Cyrus had a non-conformist burial.
The register in the National Archives reference RG4-55 lists "the children and others baptised by me Bennet Stevenson in the course of my Ministry at Bath". The dates are 1719-1753. The catalogue assigns it to the Presbyterian Chapel in Trim Street but that is dubious. The later registers assigned to that church describe it as Unitarian and only built in 1795, they having previously met at a house in Frog Lane. They did not have a burial ground before 1819. Obviously Presbyterians/Unitarians who died before that date had to be buried somewhere, but I don't know where. Possibly if they were buried in the local churchyard, but with a funeral service conducted in their own Meeting House the burial may not have been recorded in the parish register.
david
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Thank you again, David, for sharing your extensive local knowledge.
It is good, at least, to have a forename for 'Mr Stevenson'. He seems to have been assiduous in recording the names of those he baptised- a pity he didn't do the same for the people he buried!
I will, however, consult RG4-55 in case the 'others' include Cyrus, as perhaps the four shilling bible was a christening gift.
Regards,
Lesley
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David-
I have now found the bill for the church burial of Cyrus- dated May 8th 1730, so it looks like 'Bath, St Michael's. 7 May 1730:a Black boy was Buried in the Church yard' does in fact refer to him, despite the fact the family were worshipping at Mr Stevenson's church. Poor nameless Cyrus! The breakdown of the bill is 11/- 'due to the church, 2/- 'due to the minister', 1/- 'to the Clerk', 1/- 'for the certificate' 4/- 'for Ringing the bell', 4/- 'for makeing the Grave', a coffin 14/-, a shroud 8/-, totalling £2:5s, so the remaining £1:5s must have been for refreshments for the mourners.
RG4-55 drew a blank for the baptism of Cyrus.
Regards,
Lesley
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I meant also to say that the bill is receipted on the back by Susanna Axford.
Lesley
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Lesley, can I ask about the John RUNCIMAN you mention? Is there anything known about him? He was servant to the Baillie family.
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FindMyPast burials (transcription only) -
First Name - Black Boy
Last Name - not recorded
Burial Date - 7 May 1730
Denomination - Anglican
Place - Bath
Church - St. Michael
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Thank you- the Baillie family almost certainly told the vicar or clerk what Cyrus' name was (though that was probably only his assumed name), so it's a shame he was nameless in the register.
ScotLad- I'm sorry, I know nothing else about John Runciman. I don't think he had been in the family's service long, as his name doesn't appear in lists of servants' wages, but footmen came and went quite frequently. William Adam had subcontracted the building of the new house at Mellerstain to a builder named James RUNCIMAN (invariably spelled Runchiman by Lady Grisell, giving a clue to the C18th pronunciation of the name) in the late 1720s, so there is possibly a connection there. If John Runciman was a footman, he is likely to have been young and unmarried.
Regards,
Lesley
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Thankyou, Lesley- we live by little snippets and the connection to Mellerstain House is very interesting. My RUNCIMAN ancestors are in Mellerstain country, & we’re probably tenants of the Earl of Haddington.
It’s possible the James Runciman you refer to may be one of the Runciman wrights from Edinburgh, father or grandfather of the Scottish artists, Alexander & John R.
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Yes, James Runciman building Mellerstain is the father of Alexander, the painter. There is a landscape c1773 in the library at Mellerstain which is thought may be by Alexander Runciman.
What known Runciman ancestors do you have in the area?
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Thanks for this info Lesley.
My Runcimans are in Haddingtonshire. (Now East Lothian). Richard R was born in North Berwick in 1701. As a married man he farmed a smallholding named ‘Whaup Knowe’ and worshipped at Tynninghame Church from c1730. Earl of Haddington enlarged his own private grounds around Tynninghame House by rehousing the parishioners from their cottages & building a new village of Tynninghame in 1761. Richard is known to be at Castleton Farm in 1760s.
We have a reputed family connection to the artists which we’d like to prove. Additionally I discovered that artist Alexander had a son named John to an unnamed woman with whom he lived in Edinburgh. John was a silversmith in London in 1802 according to an article of that date in The Scots Magazine. I haven’t managed to trace him so far. He was the only descendant of the artists.