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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Waterford => Topic started by: Krazykat87 on Monday 15 October 18 14:58 BST (UK)
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Hi everyone
Getting back in to my Irish side but it’s been a struggle with it being a very popular surname within waterford (Sullivan)
I ordered my great grans death certificate to try solve it myself but no luck.
Civil Irish record shows the birth of ellen Sullivan 29 May 1903
Death certificate shows birth as 3 jan 1902
Am I going to be stuck with conflicting records?
Makes me want to give up my Irish search as my other family of Waterford is ‘power’ so I’m struggling on that side too 😔
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Why?
Quite common...
Civil Irish record shows the birth of AN ellen Sullivan 29 May 1903
Death certificate shows birth OF AN ellen Sullivan as 3 jan 1902
Often if a child dies then another born they use same Christian name!
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Why?
Quite common...
Civil Irish record shows the birth of AN ellen Sullivan 29 May 1903
Death certificate shows DEATH OF AN ellen Sullivan as 3 jan 1902
Often if a child dies then another born they use same Christian name!
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Can you post links to what you are talking about??
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possible David Power and Ellen Sullivan 1923
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1923/09187/5323373.pdf
Ellen 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Waterford_No__3_Urban/Slievekeale/673923/
mother 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Waterford_Urban_No__4/Tramore_Old_Rd___Pt__of_/1762710/
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possible David Power and Ellen Sullivan 1923
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1923/09187/5323373.pdf
Ellen 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Waterford_No__3_Urban/Slievekeale/673923/
mother 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Waterford_Urban_No__4/Tramore_Old_Rd___Pt__of_/1762710/
Yes that marriage is correct as I had those details given to me before my family passed.
Why?
Quite common...
Civil Irish record shows the birth of AN ellen Sullivan 29 May 1903
Death certificate shows DEATH OF AN ellen Sullivan as 3 jan 1902
Often if a child dies then another born they use same Christian name!
I get that they sometimes do that but the civil record makes my great gran younger than what she and her family thought. She died over here in England
I have searched during 1902 for a birth to mother ‘gowan’ but not found anything but the 1903 record is the correct parents
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possible David Power and Ellen Sullivan 1923
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1923/09187/5323373.pdf
The 1911 census is the one I also have here :-)
The 1901 I hadn’t come across so need to look at the details more on that one
Ellen 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Waterford_No__3_Urban/Slievekeale/673923/
mother 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Waterford_Urban_No__4/Tramore_Old_Rd___Pt__of_/1762710/
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I have searched during 1902 for a birth to mother ‘gowan’ but not found anything but the 1903 record is the correct parents
So, whoever gave her Death information/details was wrong!
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The Powers could be tricky if the mother was born in Italy
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Waterford_Urban_No__4/Tramore_Old_Rd___Pt__of_/1762711/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Waterford_Urban_No__1/Michael_Street__part_of_/669269/
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I have searched during 1902 for a birth to mother ‘gowan’ but not found anything but the 1903 record is the correct parents
So, whoever gave her Death information/details was wrong!
That also means that her own children were wrong as well as her husband which I find hard to believe unless she herself (ellen) had the wrong date.
All the other records conflict some suggest one is more probably than the other but the next then contradicts it.The Powers could be tricky if the mother was born in Italy
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Waterford_Urban_No__4/Tramore_Old_Rd___Pt__of_/1762711/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Waterford_Urban_No__1/Michael_Street__part_of_/669269/
All my powers so far were born in Waterford. Then the generation of my grandma chose to move here to England where they all eventually died.
Even looking in to my great great grandad Thomas I only have his marriage and 1911 census then ww1 recs... all of which suggest very different dates for his birth too. Not had any hits for a death as yet which I no to be before 1956 as his wife was a widow when she passed x
I seem to be fighting a losing battle
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The Powers could be tricky if the mother was born in Italy
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Waterford_Urban_No__4/Tramore_Old_Rd___Pt__of_/1762711/
This one is not the right family
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Waterford_Urban_No__1/Michael_Street__part_of_/669269/
This is them though x
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The Powers could be tricky if the mother was born in Italy
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Waterford_Urban_No__4/Tramore_Old_Rd___Pt__of_/1762711/
This one is not the right family
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Waterford_Urban_No__1/Michael_Street__part_of_/669269/
This is them though x
what is tricky about them?
11 yrs married, 8 kids, 4 living!
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I have searched during 1902 for a birth to mother ‘gowan’ but not found anything but the 1903 record is the correct parents
So, whoever gave her Death information/details was wrong!
That also means that her own children were wrong as well as her husband which I find hard to believe unless she herself (ellen) had the wrong date.
Well you have her Birth Registration!
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possible David Power and Ellen Sullivan 1923
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1923/09187/5323373.pdf
Ellen 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Waterford_No__3_Urban/Slievekeale/673923/
mother 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Waterford_Urban_No__4/Tramore_Old_Rd___Pt__of_/1762710/
Having looked more at that 1901 and doing other searches it is quite possible that it is my Thomas and Margaret as the occupations match up and it makes my 1878 birth for him more a promising year....
God knows about the Italy thing.... maybe it’s because her father was a soldier as show on their wedding
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Civil reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for Power of Waterford
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mv4/
From there you can select births or whatever....plus decades from list on left
You are better off researching for yourself and finding your way around, then you can research any new discoveries you make, at your leisure plus maybe add siblings of Bride/Groom to try to see if kin are still around.
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You can see the advice here
Toolkit Top Tip
Don't ignore siblings!
https://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/Irish-family-history.html
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I will take another fresh look at them another day. Only so many walls can hit in a day without being put off
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I will take another fresh look at them another day. Only so many walls can hit in a day without being put off
Yes, you can research them at your leisure even just births for a particular decade or whatever....you'll get there eventually.
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I decided to try look up margaret knotts father Edward.
Irishgenealogy have no hits for any marriages or births even without any dates in.
Every person I move on to I seem to hit a dead end.
The 1901 census if correct has a Margaret carbury as Margaret knotts mother yet I find no marriages between a knott and carbury.
I am truly unsure as to who to look at next as even ancestry isn’t giving me results when it’s worldwide.
There was a Margaret knott born to an Edward but it’s india and not Italy as the 1901 shows and I can’t access the record further as I don’t have the right package.
My Irish family seems to be a total mess :-(
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If Margaret's name was Knott this may be a unnamed male sibling born at the Curragh Camp 1871 to Edward Knott,Private 51st Regiment and Margaret Hunt
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03287/2204638.pdf
parents marriage 1870 C O E/I
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1870/11405/8188164.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10303/5750590.pdf
Margaret Carbery a waiters widow died 1918 age 72 informant was her daughter Margaret Power of 11 Blakes Lane
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1918/05177/4429303.pdf
Edward Knott a porter died 1883 Little Newton age 42 informant Margaret Knott widow
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1883/06372/4828640.pdf
Margaret Hunt/ Knott dtr of Thomas Hunt a Revenue officer married Richard Carbery 1890
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1890/10702/5901678.pdf
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New topic here-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=802020.msg6598711
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Wow thanks il have to check these out tomorrow.
We now have a birth of a Margaret knott in INDIA born 24 sept 1873 which seem plausible seen as I found nothing for Italy. Wonder if it was just wrote in wrong on that 1901 census.
Need to sleep and have fresh eyes on it all as well as print it so I can get it straight in my head.
Thank you all for the help. May not feel as stressed tomorrow now once I look at it properly and hopefully it all fits in place 😁
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Just a matter of doing things one step at a time!
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I think David Power a sailor not tailor is trying to confuse us says he's only 40 he was a widower married again in 1883 to Margaret Cahill
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Waterford_Town/New_Street/1763732/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10822/5947159.pdf
as he lists a son Thomas a barber age 27
same address as on Thomas's marriage
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10303/5750590.pdf
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Yes thomas’s father was a sailor definately as it’s easy to read on the marriage....
I have to sort out thomas’s Birth/ mother then I can see who David actually married lol
Wish they all had more unusual names and not all the same!
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Oh dear god and if that’s the remarriage of David then his bloody father was a Thomas 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
So my great grandfather power was David who’s father was Thomas who’s father was David who’s father is possibly a Thomas.
Oh lord I wish my gran had told me all this before she passed 😔
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I think David Power a sailor not tailor is trying to confuse us says he's only 40 he was a widower married again in 1883 to Margaret Cahill
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Waterford_Town/New_Street/1763732/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10822/5947159.pdf
as he lists a son Thomas a barber age 27
same address as on Thomas's marriage
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1901/10303/5750590.pdf
But Thomas is listed as only being 23yrs when he marries in 01 and if that’s the right father of his then he’s out by 5 year all of a sudden
Grrrrr
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David is 60 in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/No__1_Urban/New_Street__part_of_/672052/
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I think David Power a sailor not tailor is trying to confuse us says he's only 40 he was a widower married again in 1883 to Margaret Cahill
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Waterford_Town/New_street
Hang on if he is 40 in this census then he can’t be 60 in in 1911
David is 60 in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/No__1_Urban/New_Street__part_of_/672052/
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David is more likely to be 60ish in 1911 and telling porkies in 1901
possibly this man born 1850s ?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mva/
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That then means he’s wife is lying too as there is 10 year between them.
I’m really unsure about that one
Thing is there is so many power families in Waterford during that time and that’s what has made it difficult for me too
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I would have though 1901 is more likely to be correct as the old age pension was introduced in 1909 leading to a lot of people lying on the 1911 census.
He may of course have had different reasons to lie in 1901. I haven't looked at the detail of this thread.
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Wonder is he Thomas Martin Power born 1st Jan 1875 at John St to David a sailor and Mary Barron
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03111/2141015.pdf
April 14th 1873 St John's Church David Power age 20 son of Thomas to Mary Barron dtr Patrick Barron
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11274/8135412.pdf
also a Mary 20 Dec 1879 too many to look through on civil certs
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGP3-1XH
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Yes this was my issue as there are tons of Thomas and David powers in Waterford.
I wish they had had a more unusual first name then it may not be so difficult to trace who is the right one etc etc
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Yes this was my issue as there are tons of Thomas and David powers in Waterford.
I wish they had had a more unusual first name then it may not be so difficult to trace who is the right one etc etc
That's where addresses come into play!
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Yes this was my issue as there are tons of Thomas and David powers in Waterford.
I wish they had had a more unusual first name then it may not be so difficult to trace who is the right one etc etc
That's where addresses come into play!
Yes and I wish my family had left me a road map but only gave me the childhood home they grew up in which is a lot later than any of this info sadly
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Yes this was my issue as there are tons of Thomas and David powers in Waterford.
I wish they had had a more unusual first name then it may not be so difficult to trace who is the right one etc etc
That's where addresses come into play!
Yes and I wish my family had left me a road map but only gave me the childhood home they grew up in which is a lot later than any of this info sadly
Which is where?
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Buttermilk lane. My gran was only born in 1933.
I think it is listed actually on Margaret’s death record where daughter is listed as living at the time of death
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You'd be surprised what can be found on Google
e.g. Friday, January 19th, 2007
St. Saviour’s Way
Deepest Sympathy Deepest sympathy to B O’N Priory Lawn, on the death of her aunt Mrs. Angie Williams (nee Whelan), late of Stevenage, England, and formally of Buttermilk Lane, Waterford, who died in England recently. Burial will take place in Stevenage. Angie is survived by her husband K
Not yours I know....just an example!!
Did any remain in Ireland?
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Sorry at work so on and off
Not of my grandmas siblings no, some married there but then came here as well as her mother and father... just don’t no any particular dates as to when they came. My gran married in 56 over here. I am just slowly getting some electoral registers sorted.
I moved on to my grandads side as they have been a little easier to trace plus it’s where I live so easier accessing resources too
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Noted on 1911 census of Slievekeale that Margaret Sullivan said she had 5 children born 4 alive and only 3 at home
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Waterford_No__3_Urban/Slievekeale/673923/
The 1901 census shows Margaret at her family the Gowan's home with her eldest daughter Elizabeth born 3rd January 1899 at College Green, Ballytruckle
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1899/02048/1784201.pdf
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Waterford/Waterford_Urban_No__4/Tramore_Old_Rd___Pt__of_/1762710/
Elizabeth seems to have stayed with her cousins
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Waterford/Waterford_No__4_Urban/Tramore_Old_Road__part_of_/674258/
edited to add
Mary above is Margaret's sister who said in 1901 that she was a widow Catherine is her daughter most likely illigit as was Mary the other granddaughter in 1901
290 here
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1888/02493/1924908.pdf
died 1906
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1906/05545/4555368.pdf
Elizabeth married Patrick Troy in 1924
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1924/09162/5313983.pdf
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Patrick Troy appears to have died at 1 College Green,Ballytruckle 1966 with Elizabeth widow as informant
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1966/04225/4081754.pdf
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01mvn/