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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: aus*jen on Saturday 20 October 18 03:12 BST (UK)
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Looking for a death record for John Murray who married Margaret Jennings on 8th June, 1837 in
Maitland NSW. Have located 3 children born to this couple, Anne Jane 1842, Mary 1849 and John A,
1851. Family records indicate that John was a former soldier possibly from the 3rd Regiment of
Foot (Buffs).
On 10th March 1852 Margaret Jennings Murray remarried to Frederick Wherritt also in Maitland.
Would assume that John Murray was deceased by this date but can find no evidence of this. There are 3 possible deaths in 1853 on BDM index (attached) aged 35, 55 and 55 years. Have no details
of the birth year of John Murray but if he arrived in NSW with the 3rd Regiment in the early 1820's
that may eliminate the 35 year old death.
There is a marriage of a John Murray and Elizabeth Allcock (nee Carroll) in East Maitland on 29th September 1852 but have no evidence that this is the same John Murray.
Would appreciate any help or suggestions re his death.
Regards,
Jen.
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You could be on right track for second marriage. Death of Ann Jane Murray with step-father, Frederick Wherritt.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13436921
2906/1879 MURRAY Ann J parents JOHN and MARGARET NEWTOWN
Jamjar
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What was John As middle name?
Jamjar
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Am I right in thinking the Wherritt’s died in Victoria?
688 1903 WHERRETT Margt parents Jennings Jno and Mary (Dauburn) Melb W Aged 75
That’s a birth year of 1828, too young to be married in 1837, yes?
A photo of this Wherritt: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article197945118
Jamjar
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Thanks for your comments Jamjar. Don't know the second name of John junior.
Yes, the Wherritts did die in Victoria. The death record of Margaret Wherritt is incorrect.
Her parents were John Jennings and Bridget Hogan (not Mary). Margaret arrived in NSW
on Sir Joseph Banks aged 6 in 1828, so birth year of 1822. She was 15 years on her marriage
to John Murray and 81 years on her death in 1903.
Jen.
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"..Family records indicate that John was a former soldier possibly from the 3rd Regiment of
Foot (Buffs)."
What are these records?
What names do you see for witnesses on marriage certificates 1837 and 1852?
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Wivenhoe, For family records should have mentioned they are written notes by a Jennings
family researcher, no evidence to support the fact that John Murray was in the
3rd Regiment.
Re the marriage witnesses - first marriage to John Murray, witnesses were Mary
Jennings sister of the bride and Johnson Brothers her future husband and a former
soldier in the 3rd Regiment. Catholic marriage Maitland
Second marriage 1852, Catholic marriage in St. Mary's Cathedral Sydney. Witnesses
were William Gohagan and Margaret Gahagan signed with her mark. Note the
different spellings of witness surnames. Certificate I have is copy from Registrar
NSW.
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NSW BDM
MURRAY Joh A 438/1851 V1851438 37A parents John / Margaret
I am not able to get a day / month for this record.....?
What details are on the death certificate for Margaret WHERRITT, died 1903, Victoria?
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I don't have the cert. for John A. born 1851 to John Murray and Margaret Jennings so
can't give day and month of his birth.
Details from death cert. died 30th May 1903, occupation housewife, buried Melbourne General
cemetery 1st. June 1903. Informant was son-in-law.
Born Ireland, 40 years NSW 33 years Victoria
Details of marriages place and date of first marriage 'not known' John Murray named as husband
in first marriage.
Second marriage Frederick Wherritt, Sydney 1852.
details of children Alice 58 (Alice Maria was Mary) John dead, Jane (Anne Jane) dead, Millie 48,
Frederick deceased, Georgina 44, Mary 42, Millie 40, Alfred 38, Edwin 36.
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:)
Hi,
I am sure that Jen will not misunderstand when I write ... How sure are you that John MURRAY was still with Margaret for all three babies...
Looking for a death record for John Murray who married Margaret Jennings on 8th June, 1837 in Maitland NSW. Have located 3 children born to this couple, Anne Jane 1842, Mary 1849 and John A, 1851. Family records indicate that John was a former soldier possibly from the 3rd Regiment of Foot (Buffs).
It may be sensible to look earlier for the burial of John...
The Australian Joint Copying Project would likely include payroll and musters for the Buffs. Likely held at NLA Canberra and Mitchell Library, Sydney.
I am not home at present, but if you do a search at RChat I am sure you will find posts where I mention the project - I wish they would consider digitising and uploading the reels... ::)
Volume 37a for the NSW BDM Early Church Records ... Maitland ... errr .... possibly findable within C of E and Christ Church Cathedral (Newcastle Diocese), and these are online, no charge images ... see RChat's NSW resources board, or search at RChat for err ... where I have mentioned that ;D
(Volumes 1 to 44 are C of E) - if John MURRAY was buried C of E Maitland or anywhere within Newcastle Diocese, you should find burial in those images, same with baptisms and with marriages ;D
Fingers crossed, sorry I cannot be part of the searching through at the moment. :-X
JM
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Hi JM, That thought had also crossed my mind ;D Will check earlier dates for the
death of John Murray.
However, I should mention at this point that Frederick Wherritt was previously
married with a child in England before he came to Australia in 1841. His wife and
child were both alone on the 1841 census. It appears that the marriage may have
been invalid even if John Murray was deceased by 1852.
Thankyou for your suggestions re the Australian joint copying project and Christ Church
Cathedral records, I will work through those with fingers crossed ;D :D
Regards,
Jen.
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Hi Jen
Taking a chance that you will get this. I have a connection to the Margaret Jennings who married John Murray in 1837. I found a death for a John Murray V1849538 34B/1849 MURRAY JOHN AGE 33--From Ryerson: Murray John 1816? 21 Oct 1849 33 Camperdown NSW Benevolent Asylum ground BN00235 MEMORIAL ID 187992689 I wrote to the, and this is the reply I got "Hi Maggi,
You won't find him in our index 1857-1900 as you are looking for someone who obviously died in 1849.
Earlier records for the Sydney Benevolent Asylum are available at the Mitchell Library and you'd need to write to the Benevolent Society, pay for an access fee, and then search the records at the Mitchell yourself, or get a researcher to do that for you. The records are not on open access.
If you have obtained his burial certificate (which is the record you quote at V1849538 34B) this will give you any other information about him recorded at the time.
Camperdown Cemetery Burial butts etc are also held at the Society of Australian Genealogists in Sydney - see www.sag.org.au for details of their hours, fees and catalogue. This would confirm the burial details for you and tell you where the grave was located before the cemetery was cleared"
As I live in Perth and due to budget restraints I am not able to get SAGS to do any lookups. When I have more time I may see if a Librarian at Mitchell Library can check the records for me so I can confirm it is the right John Murray. I know there was another son born 2 years after this but that doesn't surprise me considering the era.
Hope that helps, Heather Garnsey & Martyn Killion www.sydneybenevolentasylum.com"
The John Murray who married Elizabeth Alcock nee Carroll (also in my tree) is I think two different people though I have not confirmed that yet but it would mean he was a bigamist (again not surprised if this is the case). Both are way down on my wish list for certificates so relying on others research at the moment. I have kept a copy of the conversations here so that I can get back to them for further research. Cheers Maggi Perth WA
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Hi Maggi, Thankyou for the info. on the death and burial of a John Murray in 1849. It would
be worth checking with the Mitchell Library, I have had excellent responses in the past
from their Ask a Librarian service.
Regards,
Jen.
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I'm trying to find birth and/or immigration information on John Murray, who married Margaret Jennings in Maitland in 1837. As far as I could find out, John worked as an overseer at Redbank from as early as 1835 until at least 1838. In 1838 or 1839, John and Margaret moved to Highfield, Circular Head Tasmania where he worked as an overseer at Van Dieman's Land Company. His daughters, Alice and Ann was born there in 1839 and 1842, with Ann's birth registered in TAS and NSW. There is no record of Alice's birth - info derived from 1857 Vic marriage - age being 18. The 1843 census he is listed as alone and possibly born in Australia, as he is the only RC male in the house. Possibly Margaret was away with the girls during the census. It's understood John left the VDL in late 1843 after he and few others had a dispute with the company. The trail has gone on John after this point. He had no middle name.
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Hello Rollers, I have just found your post by chance, did not receive notification of it for some
reason. Will send you a PM (personal message) via Rootschat to expand on
my research since 2018. Will need to look for my notes as I have temporarily
lost my files due to computer breakdown.
Regards,
Jen.
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:D :D :D
I see I mentioned the AJCP earlier in Jen's thread.... I share a recent thread I posted with some grand news about that project ....
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=829521.0
JM
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That is great news JM :D Thankyou for adding the link to this thread.
regards,
Jen.
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Hello again Rollers, Have sent you a PM, just wondering if you received it. If not just
post here again and I will send another.
Regards,
Jen.
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Hello Jen,
Colin here.
I must apologise for the delay. had a lot going on, with prepping house for settlement, etc. Now i can fly away to distant shores to explore family roots. Hold on, we have Covid, and I'm in Victoria.
The enigmatic John Murray of the Hunter region. Problem is, he was one of many around at the time with the same name and not possessing a middle name. Heinous crime really. Got the same problem with another ancestor named Robert Hunt.
I think you have a research idea for me?
Please help.
Regards,
Colin
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Hello Colin, Have not progressed much further in the search for the origins of the elusive John
Murray but have a few ideas on further research, will send you a PM.