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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: BronwenS on Wednesday 24 October 18 02:52 BST (UK)
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Kia ora
I am trying to find William Williams on the 1841 & 1851 census. I have the census for these years for his parents and other children but not him?
Any help appreciated
Nga mihi Bronwen Summers, ChCh, NZ
Mary Rubbathen wife of Thomas Williams, mother of William Williams
b.1798, June 3 baptism date Acton Burnell, Shropshire, Eng.
m.1821 June 14 Condover Shropshire, Eng. (reg.)
d.1869 April 4 Pitchford, Shropshire, Eng. (reg.)
Children ??
1826 Oct 22 Thomas Williams, Pitchford, Shropshire, Eng.(Ag labourer) m.Mary, Owestry c: 1854-1935,Samuel (m. Charlotte L Harvey c 1856 to 1936, 1 son George T Williams 1877-1955), 1856 Edwin, 1860 Allice
1821 Oct 5 B.1822 Dec 22 Mary Williams
1829 Feb 15 Edward Williams, Pitchford, Shropshire, Eng.
1830 John Williams, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng.
1831 John Williams
1833-1909 Hannah Williams, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng. m.James R(h)oden, b 1829, Shropshire, d.1912 Wolverhampton. 1851 census 18 a servant for Mary Wildig and family in Pride Street Hannah on 1901 census, 1911 census James is a Widower.
1836 Jan 3 Williams – male, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng.
1836 William Williams, Acton Burnell, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng. m.1861 Sarah Ann Cooper, Christchurch, William died 1900 Sep 1, Ch.Ch., senile decay, burial 1900 Sep 4 Chch, Linwood cemetery, ChCh, Block 31A plot 142 Sarah died 1901 buried in same plot. c.1865-1907 Isadore Maude Williams m.Thomas Herbert Raxworthy ) William Williams a labourer 44 years in NZ when he died (came to NZ in 1856) He was 39 when he married in Christchrch, Samuel Cecil Williams signed the death cert. lived in Linwood 6 daughters at his death, 13, 17, 19, 25, 36, 38 sons 26, 39, 21
1836 Elizabeth Williams, Berrington, Shropshire. Eng. (reg.) 1851 census house servant to the Deakin family in Berrington, 1871 living at Pitchford, m.William Beedle
1837 Thomas Williams,
1840 Eliz Williams
1841 Feb 21 Ann Williams, Cantlop, Shropshire, Eng. (reg.)
1842 Elizabeth Williams, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng. (reg.)
Census
1841 Thomas 40 Ag. Lab., Mary 40, John 10, Hannah 8, Elizabeth 5, Anne 4 months, Cantlop, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng. (all born in Shropshire)
1851 Thomas & Mary Williams house named Windy Mundy within the Pitchford Estate reg district Atcham, Ann 10 scholar, Eliz 8 scholar, Hannah 17 no occupation listed, John 20, farm labourer reg district Atcham
1861 Thomas & Mary Williams, Upper Cottage, Pitchford, Shropshire, Eng. Ann living with her parents, listed as Agr. Labourer’s unmarried daughter
(Thomas Williams – farm labourer estate earl of Liverpool
Farmer according to William Williams death cert)
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Kia ora
Trying to find out what ship and any other details for William Williams who came from Shropshire to NZ about 1856. His sister Ann (my GGrandmother) came to NZ in 1875 with her husband and one child and settled in Oxford. I have no idea where he settled and wondered whether it was out there.
nga mihi
Bronwen Summers, ChCh. NZ
Mary Rubbathen wife of Thomas Williams, mother of Ann
b.1798, June 3 baptism date Acton Burnell, Shropshire, Eng.
m.1821 June 14 Condover Shropshire, Eng. (reg.)
d.1869 April 4 Pitchford, Shropshire, Eng. (reg.)
Children ??
1826 Oct 22 Thomas Williams, Pitchford, Shropshire, Eng.(Ag labourer) m.Mary, Owestry c: 1854-1935,Samuel (m. Charlotte L Harvey c 1856 to 1936, 1 son George T Williams 1877-1955), 1856 Edwin, 1860 Allice
1821 Oct 5 B.1822 Dec 22 Mary Williams
1829 Feb 15 Edward Williams, Pitchford, Shropshire, Eng.
1830 John Williams, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng.
1831 John Williams
1833-1909 Hannah Williams, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng. m.James R(h)oden, b 1829, Shropshire, d.1912 Wolverhampton. 1851 census 18 a servant for Mary Wildig and family in Pride Street Hannah on 1901 census, 1911 census James is a Widower.
1836 Jan 3 Williams – male, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng.
1836 William Williams, Acton Burnell, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng. m.1861 Sarah Ann Cooper, Christchurch, William died 1900 Sep 1, Ch.Ch., senile decay, burial 1900 Sep 4 Chch, Linwood cemetery, ChCh, Block 31A plot 142 Sarah died 1901 buried in same plot. c.1865-1907 Isadore Maude Williams m.Thomas Herbert Raxworthy ) William Williams a labourer 44 years in NZ when he died (came to NZ in 1856) He was 39 when he married in Christchrch, Samuel Cecil Williams signed the death cert. lived in Linwood 6 daughters at his death, 13, 17, 19, 25, 36, 38 sons 26, 39, 21
1836 Elizabeth Williams, Berrington, Shropshire. Eng. (reg.) 1851 census house servant to the Deakin family in Berrington, 1871 living at Pitchford, m.William Beedle
1837 Thomas Williams,
1840 Eliz Williams
1841 Feb 21 Ann Williams, Cantlop, Shropshire, Eng. (reg.)
1842 Elizabeth Williams, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng. (reg.)
Census
1841 Thomas 40 Ag. Lab., Mary 40, John 10, Hannah 8, Elizabeth 5, Anne 4 months, Cantlop, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng. (all born in Shropshire)
1851 Thomas & Mary Williams house named Windy Mundy within the Pitchford Estate reg district Atcham, Ann 10 scholar, Eliz 8 scholar, Hannah 17 no occupation listed, John 20, farm labourer reg district Atcham
1861 Thomas & Mary Williams, Upper Cottage, Pitchford, Shropshire, Eng. Ann living with her parents, listed as Agr. Labourer’s unmarried daughter
(Thomas Williams – farm labourer estate earl of Liverpool
Farmer according to William Williams death cert)
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I’m confused, you seem to know all about him:
“William Williams a labourer 44 years in NZ when he died (came to NZ in 1856) He was 39 when he married in Christchrch, Samuel Cecil Williams signed the death cert. lived in Linwood 6 daughters at his death, 13, 17, 19, 25, 36, 38 sons 26, 39, 21”
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I don't know whether all of these children are from the family you are researching. [I note wife Sarah was actually Sarah Ann, according to her death notice]. You may get a lead on the ship by researching family members through "Papers Past".......
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
Have you looked at Family Search?
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list?fcs=placeId%3A1927083&ec=region%3AAUSTRALIA_NEW_ZEALAND%2CplaceId%3A1927083
1887/17968 Williams Audrey Evelyn Cooper Sarah Ann William -
1881/4658 Williams Nellie May Sarah Ann William
1876/14175 Williams Thomas Arthur Sarah Ann William
1863/165 Williams Thomas William Sarah Ann William -
1875/3935 Williams Ann Hunter Sarah Ann William
1880/10605 Williams Ethel Marion Sarah Ann William
1878/23 Williams William Horace Sarah Ann William
1883/7803 Williams Aimee Frederica Sarah Ann William -
1873/18265 Williams Alfred Francis Sarah Ann William
1871/32902 Williams Harold Herbert Sarah Ann William
1869/30787 Williams Samuel Cecil Sarah Ann William -
1866/17334 Williams NR Sarah Ann William -
1865/23490 Williams Isidore Maude Sarah Ann William -
1866/20137 Williams Charles Alfred Sarah Ann William -
1862/12620 Williams Alice Mary Sarah Ann William -
1858/6893 Williams NR Sarah Ann William -
1861/9738 Williams NR Sarah Ann William
Minniehaha.
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Great many thanks for those leads.
nga mihi
Bronwen
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Hi Jamjar
I am specifically trying to find out what ship he came on, whether he settled in Oxford and who his children were.
I don't have any of that information. Nor can I find him in the 41 and 51 census at all although I can find his sister Ann and other family members.
nga mihi
Bronwen
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There is also this associated topic on the Shropshire board.....
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=802440.msg6603552#msg6603552
Minniehaha.
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Do you have his death in NZ?
Cheers Janette
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I’ve been looking at the male/female children as mentioned on your initial post.
Based on their ages, on his death certificate, I have come up with these living children, all with parents Sarah Ann and William. The only male born 1861 I can see has no christian name recorded.
Girls
1862 Alice May
1864 Isidore Maude
1875 Ann Hunter
1881 Nellie May
1883 Aimee Fredrica
1887 Audrey Evelyn Cooper
Boys
1861 not sure
1869 Samuel Cecil
1874 Alfred Francis
1879 William Horace
Only assumption, of course.
Jamjar
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These may be the death/funeral notices for William & Sarah Ann, referred to in the first post [about half way down].......
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19010110.2.16.4?end_date=31-12-1901&phrase=2&query=sarah+ann+williams+&start_date=01-01-1901&title=AMBPA%2CAG%2CEG%2CGLOBE%2CLT%2CNCGAZ%2COO%2CCHP%2CSCANT%2CTS%2CSUNCH%2CTEML%2CTHD%2CWDA
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TS19000903.2.16?end_date=31-12-1900&query=william+williams&start_date=01-01-1900&title=AMBPA%2CAG%2CEG%2CGLOBE%2CLT%2CNCGAZ%2COO%2CCHP%2CSCANT%2CTS%2CSUNCH%2CTEML%2CTHD%2CWDA
Minniehaha.
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A little Raxworthy family information.......
Marriage:
1889/3147 Isadore Maud Williams Thomas Raxworthy
Births:
1907/23289 Raxworthy Richard Cecil Isadore Maud Thomas Herbert -
1905/11494 Raxworthy William Stanley Isadore Maud Thomas Herbert -
1900/9976 Raxworthy Alfred Redvers Isadore Maud Thomas Herbert -
1899/2874 Raxworthy Raymond Wyman Isadore Maud Thomas Herbert -
1893/7846 Raxworthy Thomas Arthur Isadore Maud Thomas Herbert -
1890/17317 Raxworthy Alice Maud Isadore Maud Thomas -
1897/6897 Raxworthy John Robert Isadore Maud Thomas Herbert -
1903/12474 Raxworthy Hugh James Isadore Maud Thomas Herbert
Minniehaha.
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Details for another possible daughter......
Marriage:
1908/1413 Audrey Evelyn Cooper Williams Henry William Clayton Hutton
Births found:
1912/8436 Hutton Ernest Alfred Audrey Evelyn Cooper Henry William Clayton -
1908/22833 Hutton Francis William Albert Audrey Evelyn Cooper Henry William Clayton -
Death added:
1952/35115 Hutton Audrey Evelyn Cooper 65Y
Minniehaha.
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There is an Isidore Williams at school in Waimate in Dec 1876:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/THD18761226.2.8?items_per_page=100&phrase=2&query=Isidore+williams&sort_by=byDA
And Alice Mary in March 1870:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/THD18700312.2.10?items_per_page=100&phrase=2&query=Alice+mary+williams&sort_by=byDA
Jamjar
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Probated will of Henry William Clayton HUTTON..........
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9VB-JH61?i=96&cc=1865481
Minniehaha.
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Marriage: 1889/3147 Isadore Maud WILLIAMS to Thomas RAXWORTHY
Death: 1907/10062 Raxworthy Asadore Maude 43Y
Funeral notice, bottom of page: https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/LT19071029.2.91.7?items_per_page=100&page=2&phrase=2&query=Raxworthy&sort_by=byDA
Jamjar
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What makes you believe that he even survived to adulthood?
Pauline
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What makes you believe that he even survived to adulthood?
Pauline
I think Bronwen lists him in the very detailed message, Pauline:
1836 William Williams, Acton Burnell, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng. m.1861 Sarah Ann Cooper, Christchurch, William died 1900 Sep 1, Ch.Ch., senile decay, burial 1900 Sep 4 Chch, Linwood cemetery, ChCh, Block 31A plot 142 Sarah died 1901 buried in same plot. c.1865-1907 Isadore Maude Williams m.Thomas Herbert Raxworthy ) William Williams a labourer 44 years in NZ when he died (came to NZ in 1856) He was 39 when he married in Christchrch, Samuel Cecil Williams signed the death cert. lived in Linwood 6 daughters at his death, 13, 17, 19, 25, 36, 38 sons 26, 39, 21
It took me a while to pick it out among all the other info about the family.
Gadget
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Funeral notice for Isadore Maud [1907]...........
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19071030.2.61.2?end_date=31-12-1907&query=raxworthy&start_date=01-01-1907
Minniehaha.
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Bronwen
Where did you get his birth/baptism from? I can't seem to locate him at Acton Burnell or Berrington.
Maybe I've missed the entry.
Gadget
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Deaths:
1928/11523 Williams William Horace 49Y
1953/24413 Williams Alfred Francis 80Y
Buried alone:
Williams Alfred Francis
Date of death: Sunday, 27 September 1953
Cemetery: Linwood
Date of burial: Tuesday, 29 September 1953
Block number: 17
Plot number: 180
Age: 80 years
Occupation: Labourer
Marriage:
1883/3117 Alice Mary WILLIAMS to Frederick LUCAS
Death:
1942/29529 Lucas Alice Mary 79Y
1928/5721 Lucas Frederick 69Y
Funeral notice, Alice: https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19420608.2.80.6?items_per_page=100&phrase=2&query=Alice+mary+lucas&sort_by=byDA
Obit, Frederick: https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/CHP19280816.2.152?end_date=31-12-1928&items_per_page=100&phrase=2&query=Frederick+lucas&sort_by=byDA&start_date=01-01-1928
Buried with husband:
Lucas Alice Mary
Date of death: Monday, 8 June 1942
Cemetery: Addington
Date of burial: Monday, 8 June 1942
Block number: 0
Plot number: 1404A
Age: 79 years
Lucas Frederick
Date of death: Thursday, 16 August 1928
Cemetery: Addington
Date of burial: Thursday, 16 August 1928
Block number: 0
Plot number: 1404A
Age: 69 years
Jamjar
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Just checking - are all those dates correct? If 39 when he married in 1861 then born ca 1822 - but Bronwen states born 1836....and 64 quite young to die of senile decay in 1900.
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The only Williams baptism to Thomas and Mary in Berrington in 1836 is Elizabeth - 3rd January.
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Marriage:
1901/1000 Ann Hunter Williams Roland Cotter
Death:
1962/43894 Cotter Ann Hunter 88Y
Minniehaha.
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Link to a NZ thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=802441.0
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=802440.0
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Ahhh - on the thread just pointed out by Gadget, there is a death notice for William who was 79 in 1900 when he died, so born 1821ish not 1836 which ties in with marriage age of 39 in 1861.
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I think the threads need merging, will ask a moderator.
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And I found this baptism
Name: William Williams
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 5 Oct 1821
Baptism Place: Acton Burnell,Shropshire,England
Father: Thomas Williams
Mother: Mary
FHL Film Number: 502910
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Well done, Josey. Bronwen seems 15 years out!
Have you found this one on the 1841-51 censuses?
Gadget
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Have looked but there are a lot of William Williams born ca 1821 in Shropshire in 1841; will try 1851. But my knowledge of Shropshire geography is not good ;D so don't know larger locations nearby Acton Burnell that William may have named as birthplace.
BTW I have a direct ancestor named William Williams [born Ireland] so I know what a nightmare it can be; who would have thought it was such a common name.
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Did find this:
HO107; Piece: 1991; Folio: 367; Page: 3;
William Williams 26 b Acton Burnell ag lab
Anne Williams 24
Edward Williams 4
William Williams 2
John Williams 2 Mo
but I think they occur in later censuses in Shropshire. Have to go out now to [Spanish class] but will 'call in' later.
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BTW I have a direct ancestor named William Williams [born Ireland] so I know what a nightmare it can be; who would have thought it was such a common name.
It's the ones born in Wales that are worst ;D I have some in Wales and, I think from memory , in Shropshire.
Hasta la vista (my Spanish is very rusty)
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Yes thanks I have his death
William died 1900 Sep 1, Ch.Ch., senile decay, burial 1900 Sep 4 Chch, Linwood cemetery,
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And it looks as if he was born 1821 not 1836:
And I found this baptism
Name: William Williams
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 5 Oct 1821
Baptism Place: Acton Burnell,Shropshire,England
Father: Thomas Williams
Mother: Mary
FHL Film Number: 502910
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Great thanks to everyone, perhaps now that one of you has given me the correct birth date then I might be able to find him... but looking on the 1841 census when he is in fact 20 or thereabouts will be much more difficult - no family to connect him with.
The places mentioned in terms of where they were all born in Shropshire are: Berrington, Cantlop, Acton Burnell, Pitchford. I don't think the one Josey posted is correct, the names are not quite right.
I have several suggestions from people as to where to find him on the emigration list also and that great tribe of children he has. I need to check them out 30 years of child bearing and one before they married.?
Many many thanks
Bronwen
Mary Rubbathen wife of Thomas Williams, mother of Ann
b.1798, June 3 baptism date Acton Burnell, Shropshire, Eng.
m.1821 June 14 Condover Shropshire, Eng. (reg.)
d.1869 April 4 Pitchford, Shropshire, Eng. (reg.)
Children 13
1826 Oct 22 Thomas Williams, Pitchford, Shropshire, Eng.(Ag labourer) m.Mary, Owestry c: 1854-1935,Samuel (m. Charlotte L Harvey c 1856 to 1936, 1 son George T Williams 1877-1955), 1856 Edwin, 1860 Allice
1821 Oct 5 B.1822 Dec 22 Mary Williams
1821 Oct 5 William Williams Acton Burnell, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng.
1829 Feb 15 Edward Williams, Pitchford, Shropshire, Eng.
1830 John Williams, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng.
1831 John Williams
1833-1909 Hannah Williams, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng. m.James R(h)oden, b 1829, Shropshire, d.1912 Wolverhampton. 1851 census 18 a servant for Mary Wildig and family in Pride Street Hannah on 1901 census, 1911 census James is a Widower.
1836 Jan 3 Williams – male, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng.
1836 Elizabeth Williams, Berrington, Shropshire. Eng. (reg.) 1851 census house servant to the Deakin family in Berrington, 1871 living at Pitchford, m.William Beedle
1837 Thomas Williams,
1840 Eliz Williams
1841 Feb 21 Ann Williams, Cantlop, Shropshire, Eng. (reg.)
1842 Elizabeth Williams, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng. (reg.)
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1841 has this one- nearest I can see to Acton Burnell
In the household of Will Hughes 52 farmer
Willm Williams 20 M S born in County
Address is Longnor Green, Frodesley. This is only a couple of miles or so from Acton Burnell.
Re the 1851 census found by Josey I agree that it is the nearest fit. However the most likely marriage I can see is between a William Williams and Anne Humphries ( transcribed as Humphries but could easily be Humphreys in Rodington 9 Feb 1847 - William's father give as John,age as 21. Groindex for children William and John would appear to confirm mother's maiden name as Humphreys (think eldest child was born before marriage - baptism Rodington for Edward Humphreys mpther Anne in 1846).
So I think that this 1851 census can be ruled out.
This one is a further possibility
Address Chatwall, Cardington in the home of John Lowe Mylton
William Williams Unm. 30 Farm servant born Dayhouse, Shropshire. ( Mr Google suggests that there is a Dayhouse near Leebotwood but also that the name was commonly used in Shropshire).
William
William Williams
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Yes thanks I have his death
Just checking you have read the William's death notice found by minnehaha in reply #8? This confirms age of 79 at death not 64 & much more in keeping with death caused by senile decay.
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I don't think the one Josey posted is correct, the names are not quite right.
I was thinking along the lines that maybe William had been married in England before he emigrated at the age of 34/35.
If William who married Elizabeth Hunmphreys/Humphries had father John then definitely ruled out, thanks William. But not impossible that William Williams left a family behind. But 1851 in Chatwall a good find.
I need to check them out 30 years of child bearing and one before they married.?
And again just wondering - the Elizabeth listed born to Thomas & Mary in 1840 has been found on subsequent censuses, so Elizabeths born 1840 & 1842 may be grandchildren of Thomas & Mary's ???
PS Can I check that (reg) means found in the parish register? Thanks.
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The only Williams baptism to Thomas and Mary in Berrington in 1836 is Elizabeth - 3rd January.
Did this one die or ??
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She is listed above as being found on 1851 & 1871 censuses.
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A little more.......
Death:
1880/2291 Williams Ethel Marion 10W
Death notice:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/GLOBE18800817.2.7?end_date=31-12-1880&query=william+williams&start_date=01-01-1880&title=AMBPA%2CAG%2CEG%2CGLOBE%2CLT%2CNCGAZ%2COO%2CCHP%2CSCANT%2CTS%2CSUNCH%2CTEML%2CTHD%2CWDA
Minniehaha.
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So this one in the OP's first post
1836 Jan 3 Williams – male, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng.
Was actually the Elizabeth that I found or a male twin.
Gadget
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Looking at family search, it appears that there were several couples Thomas & Mary baptising children during this time; I find it very difficult to confirm which couple but perhaps the parish registers are indicated by (reg) & occupation & residence have been confirmed for all these children listed. I am hoping Bronwen can post census refs for 1841, 1851 for her Thomas & Mary.
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Death:
1950/29908 Williams Harold Herbert 78Y
WW1 file:
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22019759&digital=yes
Marriage:
1911/6600 Rose Somes Harold Herbert Williams
Birth of one child found:
1912/13560 Williams Ngaire Evelyn Gladys Rose Harold Herbert
Her marriage:
1935/6769 Ngaire Evelyn Gladys Williams Kevin Ferrigan O'Brien
Her death:
2005/10072 O'Brien Ngaire Evelyn Gladys 5 July 1912
Minniehaha.
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The baptism of Elizabeth to a Thomas and Mary Williams in Berrington on 3rd January 1836, shows Thomas to be a labourer and they're living at Cantlop.
There are no other baptisms to a Thomas and Mary Williams there on that day. I'm not at all sure where the unnamed male baptism came from as it's not in the parish records. If it's from Family Search, it could be a Patron submission, which have never been reliable.
Perhaps Bronwen could give us the sources of her information.
Gadget
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Re the dates listed by Bronwen in her original post for children of Mary and Thomas, I've checked the parish records and found :
Two results for baptisms st Berrington to parents Thomas and Mary Williams 1830+/- 10
3 January 1836 Elizabeth of Cantlop, labourer
21 Feb 1841 Ann of Cantlop, labourer
No John 1830-31
Two with same parents names in Acton Burnell
5 October 1821 William of Acton Burnell, labourer
22 Dec 1822 Mary of Acton Burnell, labourer
Nothing in Pitchford
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I have not found Samuel Cecil [born 1869] but perhaps he dropped his second Christian name?
If so, the following may concern Samuel (Cecil) Williams......
Death:
1940/22068 Williams Samuel 70Y
Funeral notice:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19400302.2.6?end_date=31-12-1940&phrase=2&query=samuel+williams&start_date=01-01-1940
Obituary:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19400306.2.90?end_date=31-12-1940&phrase=2&query=samuel+williams&start_date=01-01-1940
His will:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9B9-2CT2?i=705&cc=1865481
Minniehaha.
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Kio ora
To answer your questions.
Just checking you have read the William's death notice found by minnehaha in reply #8? This confirms age of 79 at death not 64 & much more in keeping with death caused by senile decay.
Yes I have fixed this - which his death certificate has on it.
I have not found Samuel Cecil [born 1869] but perhaps he dropped his second Christian name?
Samuel Cecil Williams signed the death certificate with his name in full.
The census for Thomas & Mary
1841 Thomas 40 Ag. Lab., Mary 40, John 10, Hannah 8, Elizabeth 5, Anne 4 months, Cantlop, Berrington, Shropshire, Eng. (all born in Shropshire)
1851 Thomas & Mary Williams house named Windy Mundy within the Pitchford Estate reg district Atcham, Ann 10 scholar, Eliz 8 scholar, Hannah 17 no occupation listed, John 20, farm labourer reg district Atcham
1861 Thomas & Mary Williams, Upper Cottage, Pitchford, Shropshire, Eng. Ann living with her parents, listed as Agr. Labourer’s unmarried daughter
Reg. - means I have the register
The information will have come from GenesReunited, possible some from Family Search and the Shropshire Family History Society.
I had wondered whether he might have been married in Shropshire prior to emigrating.
There are 6 results for emigration for a William Williams born in Shropshire - none of which is him - that is on Family search.
Thanks for the many references to press notices etc. The most important one was says William Williams previously of Waimate and Kaiapoi. I shall find a history of Waimate where he may get a mention.
Still keen to see his emigration details.
Many thanks to you all for the great work.
Regards Bronwen
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Part quote:
"I had wondered whether he might have been married in Shropshire prior to emigrating".
New Zealand marriage:
1861/3439 Sarah Ann Cooper William Williams
Minniehaha.
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Yes thanks I had that information. What Iw as thinking was whether he had married twice, perhaps back in Shropshire before he came here, perhaps she died, or possibly came with her and then died.
Regards Bronwen
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Death:
1882/3848 Williams Thomas Arthur 5Y
Death notice:
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/TS18820729.2.11?end_date=31-12-1882&query=thomas+arthur+williams&start_date=01-01-1882&title=AMBPA%2CAG%2CEG%2CGLOBE%2CLT%2CNCGAZ%2COO%2CCHP%2CSCANT%2CTS%2CSUNCH%2CTEML%2CTHD%2CWDA
Minniehaha.
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Many thanks Minnie
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And sadly, the death of another wee one....
1869/8268 Williams Thomas William 5Y
Added: And this wee soul too....
1869/8271 Williams Charles Alfred 2Y
Minniehaha.
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Marriage:
1904/130 Amy Williams William Bennett
Death:
1950/29661 Bennett Aimee Frederica 67Y
Her probated will which names family.......
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9J8-ZCPP?i=156&cc=1865481
Minniehaha.
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Thanks for this one too.
Bronwen
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I think this is Nellie May........
Marriage:
1904/7017 Nellie Mary* Williams William Joseph Loader
*Incorrectly shown as Mary
Death:
1936/15128 Loader Nellie May 54Y
Husband's probated will:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9K6-78MT?i=141&cc=1865481
His remarriage:
1938/4744 Frances Ruth Oriel Gloistein William Joseph Loader
Minniehaha.
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Thanks Minnie for those two, pretty tough stuff, two in one year.
Now what do people think of this:
1841 census William Williams nailor, sister Mary Williams living at Longden Coleham St, Shrewsbury, Shropshire - see attached, makes sense.
1851 only problem with this is it says he was born in Wales.....but he is a nailor as it says in the first one. I need to check whether they are in the 1861 census, as he had left for NZ before that.
I wonder if i have the right Williams now. My mother said her Granny's family moved from Wales to Shropshire before her grannie was born -1841 Feb 21 Ann Williams, Cantlop, Shropshire, Eng. was born.
Any ideas.
Regards Bronwen
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The 1851 census I put up is not him as that William Williams is in the 1861 census.
Now to look further.
cheers Bronwen
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Three points:
Wales & Shropshire do share a border.
The 1861 census was held on 7.4.1861.
William Williams marriage date was 6.5.1861.
Minniehaha.
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Part quote from reply #34....
"Thanks Minnie for those two, pretty tough stuff, two in one year".
Charles Alfred, aged 2 years died on 8.5.1869.
Thomas William, aged 5 years died on 6.5.1869.
Minniehaha.
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Yes I am very aware of the border between the two. But he came to NZ in 1856 so couldn't be in the 1861 census and married in Christchurch in 1858.
cheers Bronwen
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You could request a look up in respect of the "Intention to Marry" document. This would not provide William's date of arrival in New Zealand but would give the length of time he had lived in the area where he was intending to marry. Have a look at the information on the Resource page.....
Minniehaha.
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Thanks Minnie i have never heard of that.
cheers Bronwen
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I have looked at the '51 census as someone suggested - it seems quite a possibility. But when I checked the 1861 census there was someone of the same name working as a carrier for someone in Cardingtion, but it does have his birth town as Cardington.
Address Chatwall, Cardington in the home of John Lowe Mylton
William Williams Unm. 30 Farm servant born Dayhouse, Shropshire. ( Mr Google suggests that there is a Dayhouse near Leebotwood but also that the name was commonly used in Shropshire).
Regards Bronwen
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Hi Bronwen,
I can get the Intention to Marry Notice for you.
Can you give me the names of the parties, and the date and place of marriage, please.
Spades
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That is marvellous I had no idea how you go about this.
1861 William Williams & Sarah Ann Cooper, Christchurch, New Zealand.
That is all I have.
Many thanks
Bronwen Christchurch, NZ
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Hello Spades,
FYI the date of that marriage was 6.5.1861....... :)
Minniehaha.
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Thanks Bronwen and Minniehaha.
I'll have a look for it.
Spades
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Great thanks.
Bronwen
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Hi Bronwen,
I have the Intention to Marry Notice for you.
Could you please send me a PM with your email address.
Spades
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Images sent.
Spades
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Many thanks - he was a 'sawyer' and had only been in Christchurch for 3 days so quite possible he could have lived out in Oxford where saw mills were big at that time and his sister emigrated to some 20 years later.
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Hi Bronwen,
It pays to be cautious regarding ‘length of residence’ in ITM Notices.
It’s more likely that he had travelled from his usual place of residence to prepare for the wedding.
Spades
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"... his sister emigrated to some 20 years later."
Can you identify the sister, and details of her arrival...date...ship..etc
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Yes Spades that is what I meant, just into town to get hitched.
Ann Williams wife of Thomas Emmanuel Jones, mother of Ernest (Bronwen's grandfather)
b.1841 Feb 21 Cantlop, Shropshire, Eng, (reg.)
m.1865 Aug 25 Thomas Emmanuel Jones, Wellington, Shropshire, Eng.
d.1919 Sept 23 Oxford, Canterbury, NZ (photo of gravestone)
Lived in Pitchford, Shropshire, Eng.
Children 4
1868 Jul>Sept Arthur Jones, Wellington, Shropshire, m.Ellen Harriet Flutey (Nellie) of Ngai Tahu in 1889 in Woodend, moved to Dannevirke. c: 91893?-1981 Mabel Jones, Lytton Rd, Gisborne, [m.Jock Donaldson, c.Jack Mansell Donaldson (had an association with the brass band movement) Nancy, John, Sheila, Eldric, Helen] 1900 Frederick Arthur Jones, 1903 Leslie Arthur Jones, 1906 Stanley Clement Jones, 1909 Gwendolene Jones, 1912 Helen Jones, 1913 Jack Mansell Jones. Arthur buried at Mangatera Cemetery, Dannevirke, NZ
1871 Sept-1872 Sept Frederick Jones, Salford, Manchester, Eng.
1873 Dec -1873 Dec Winifred Jones, Salford, Manchester, Eng.
1876 Oct 4 Ernest Jones, Oxford, Canterbury, New Zealand (10 children) father Thomas Jones a laborour, 38 years in NZ.
Census
1841 Ann living with parents in Cantlop, part of Berrington, Shropshire, Eng. with John 10, Hannah 8, Eliz 5 and Ann 4
1851 Ann living with parents in a house named Windy Mundy within the Pitchford Estate reg district Atcham, Ann 10 scholar, Eliz 8 scholar, Hannah 17 no occupation listed, John 20, farm labourer reg district Atcham
1861 Ann living with her parents Upper Cottage, Pitchford, Shropshire, Eng. listed as Agr. Labourer’s unmarried daughter
1871 Greengate, Salford, Manchester, Eng. Emmanuel Thos Jones age 32, Groom (unemployed), Hannah Jones, Wife, 29, Arthur Jones, son, age 4, born Salford
1875 Thomas (a carter), Ann and Arthur Jones aged 9 travelled on the Waitangi to Canterbury on 7th September 1875 arriving on 7th December 1875. Assisted emigration to Canterbury, costs borne by the government were 41 pound (now with friends in Oxford)
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hi this is my cooper? thanks Lnr williams family