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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: kiffagh on Saturday 27 October 18 13:28 BST (UK)

Title: linking to families in the same village
Post by: kiffagh on Saturday 27 October 18 13:28 BST (UK)
to all members is there any way you can link to families with the same surname in the same village.

family 1                                                                                                  family 2.
Patrick finan                                                                                            frank finan
1900-1982.                                                                                             1894-1918.   

Patrick finan                                                                                             Margaret finan
1866-1943.                                                                                              1870-1921

Michael finan                                                                                            Michael finan
1821-1909                                                                                                1856-1931.

dunowla                                                                                                     dromore

Dromore west                                                                                             Dromore west.

Margaret in the right hand column is a daughter of the Michael. i can find no living relatives for the right hand column . so can you find a link by records alone 
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 27 October 18 13:42 BST (UK)
1911 census Dromore (Dromore, Sligo) Frank Finan grandson of Michael Finan (aged 74 years - so boen 1838  ??? not quite same as you year of birth.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Sligo/Dromore/Dromore/768756/

Frank Mark Finan 24 Aug 1918 Notts and Derby (Sherwood Foresters) Regiment. (Formerly The Irish Guards)  Regimental Number   72254 - Mother Margaret.

Sandra
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 27 October 18 13:57 BST (UK)
yes you can find a link by records alone.... once research/records proves the Links!
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 27 October 18 14:02 BST (UK)



IF they were R.C.



Templeboy

Diocese of Killala | County of Sligo
Variant forms of parish name:
Templeboy and Kilmacshalgan
Dromore West
Kilmacshalgan

https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0756
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 27 October 18 14:06 BST (UK)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

Registration District :    Dromore West

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/what-civil-records-are-on-line
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 27 October 18 14:12 BST (UK)

No Bio but this is find a grave for Patrick Finan - 1901 - 1982

   
Churchill Cemetery Dromore West, County Sligo, Ireland
Plot Section- A Plot- 21

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/169804812

Sandra
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: heywood on Saturday 27 October 18 14:13 BST (UK)
Do you think the two families are linked?
Looking at Irish Genealogy as linked by Hallmark, I can see other members of the Dunowla Finans in marriage. I have only looked at a couple and there is a Catherine and a Bridget marrying with father Michael for example.

I am not sure what you are trying to establish. Do you think that Michael in family 2 is a descendant of Michael in family 1?

Heywood
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 27 October 18 14:15 BST (UK)

Searching the same cemetery as above (Churchill Cemetery Dromore West, County Sligo, Ireland) Pat Finan (1858 - 1943)  in the same grave location.    Section- A Plot- 21

Sandra
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 27 October 18 14:30 BST (UK)
Do you think the two families are linked?
Looking at Irish Genealogy as linked by Hallmark, I can see other members of the Dunowla Finans in marriage. I have only looked at a couple and there is a Catherine and a Bridget marrying with father Michael for example.

I am not sure what you are trying to establish. Do you think that Michael in family 2 is a descendant of Michael in family 1?

Heywood

One has to be very careful linking anyone in same townland as my wife found out!

We had just moved here and talking with a couple in next house  Frank and Mary X


Next morning at the shop people told her that Frank X dropped dead during the night.

My wife was on the way to the house when she met another neighbour and they were talking about it.  My wife said she was only talking to him and his wife the day before.

The neighbour said... "but he wasn't married!"

It turned out to be the other Frank X who lived in house opposite and absolutely no relation!

There are only 12 houses in townland!!
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 27 October 18 14:46 BST (UK)
Do you think the two families are linked?
Looking at Irish Genealogy as linked by Hallmark, I can see other members of the Dunowla Finans in marriage. I have only looked at a couple and there is a Catherine and a Bridget marrying with father Michael for example.

I am not sure what you are trying to establish. Do you think that Michael in family 2 is a descendant of Michael in family 1?

Heywood


That is where the poster would need to do thorough research over time.

What I do is start a private tree on Ancestry and assemble them bit by bit (with sources) using all the available stuff online, then over time add new bits as discoveries are made....plus quite often one gets useful hints to research months later.

It was about 15 months later that I got a hint for one of mine...which led to a whole new line being added for a brother of my g.g g/father 
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: heywood on Saturday 27 October 18 15:46 BST (UK)
Mine was going to be more basic  ;)

Names and connecting lines.

I am assuming that some sort of connection has been established/queried to link the families already  ???

GV shows Peter, James, Thomas and Michael Finan in Dunalow townland.
https://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/sligo/kilmacshalgan.htm

There are no Finans in Dromore

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch

Tithe Applotments show Peter Finan in Dunowla

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/index.jsp
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 27 October 18 16:01 BST (UK)
Mine was going to be more basic  ;)

Names and connecting lines.

I am assuming that some sort of connection has been established/queried to link the families already  ???

GV shows Peter, James, Thomas and Michael Finan in Dunalow townland.
https://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/sligo/kilmacshalgan.htm

There are no Finans in Dromore

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch

 ;D

Assume nothing....  ;)
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: heywood on Saturday 27 October 18 16:05 BST (UK)
You’re quite right. I assumed a link once and went totally off course, having spent quite a bit on a particular record.
That was a long time ago though and I would not make the same mistake again  ;)  :o
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 27 October 18 16:12 BST (UK)
It's not really a thing that can be answered by anyone looking for a few minutes but something that can be worked on now and then, maybe on a cold wet day etc etc...

Even for me i'm waiting for some Images to go online on irishgenealogy as so many others are.

Then many will be spending time adding any needed, so it is "a work in progress" too
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: kiffagh on Saturday 27 October 18 20:26 BST (UK)
Heywood , this is as far as i could go back on records for both families. i think that Michael on the right and Patrick on left born in 1866 could be brothers . the other finan family in dunowla are cousins to Patrick born in 1866. 
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: heywood on Saturday 27 October 18 20:54 BST (UK)
to all members is there any way you can link to families with the same surname in the same village.

family 1                                                                                                  family 2.
Patrick finan                                                                                            frank finan
1900-1982.                                                                                             1894-1918.   

Patrick finan                                                                                             Margaret finan
1866-1943.                                                                                              1870-1921

Michael finan                                                                                            Michael finan
1821-1909                                                                                                1856-1931.

dunowla                                                                                                     dromore

Dromore west                                                                                             Dromore west.

Margaret in the right hand column is a daughter of the Michael. i can find no living relatives for the right hand column . so can you find a link by records alone

Heywood , this is as far as i could go back on records for both families. i think that Michael on the right and Patrick on left born in 1866 could be brothers . the other finan family in dunowla are cousins to Patrick born in 1866. 

Now the way you have written it out, I thought you have:
Dunowla
Michael (1821)  is father to Patrick (1866) who is father to Patrick (1900)

Dromore
Michael (1856) is father to Margaret (1870) who is mother to Frank (1894). However ages of Michael and Margaret are too close  :-\

But that would  mean that Michael (1821) is father to M (1856) and P (1866) and then you would have grandchildren/nephew/niece and lastly Patrick (1900) and Frank (1894) are the cousins.

Is this what you mean?

Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 27 October 18 20:56 BST (UK)
Heywood , this is as far as i could go back on records for both families. i think that Michael on the right and Patrick on left born in 1866 could be brothers . the other finan family in dunowla are cousins to Patrick born in 1866. 


Do their Births/Bapts in registers show parents?
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 27 October 18 20:59 BST (UK)
to all members is there any way you can link to families with the same surname in the same village.

family 1                                                                                                  family 2.
Patrick finan                                                                                            frank finan
1900-1982.                                                                                             1894-1918.   

Patrick finan                                                                                             Margaret finan
1866-1943.                                                                                              1870-1921

Michael finan                                                                                            Michael finan
1821-1909                                                                                                1856-1931.

dunowla                                                                                                     dromore

Dromore west                                                                                             Dromore west.

Margaret in the right hand column is a daughter of the Michael. i can find no living relatives for the right hand column . so can you find a link by records alone

Heywood , this is as far as i could go back on records for both families. i think that Michael on the right and Patrick on left born in 1866 could be brothers . the other finan family in dunowla are cousins to Patrick born in 1866. 

Now the way you have written it out, I thought you have:
Dunowla
Michael (1821)  is father to Patrick (1866) who is father to Patrick (1900)

Dromore
Michael (1856) is father to Margaret (1870) who is mother to Frank (1894). However ages of Michael and Margaret are too close  :-\

But that would  mean that Michael (1821) is father to M (1856) and P (1866) and then you would have grandchildren/nephew/niece and lastly Patrick (1900) and Frank (1894) are the cousins.

Is this what you mean?


I think it is

Patrick finan                                                                                             
1866-1943.                                                                                               

                                                                                             Michael finan
                                                                                               1856-1931.
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 27 October 18 21:02 BST (UK)
If that is them just look for their Marriages about 20 years later!
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: kiffagh on Saturday 27 October 18 21:03 BST (UK)
thanks for all your help , going back to the records drawing board
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 27 October 18 21:04 BST (UK)
Templeboy

Diocese of Killala | County of Sligo
Variant forms of parish name:
Templeboy and Kilmacshalgan
Dromore West
Kilmacshalgan

https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0756
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: kiffagh on Saturday 27 October 18 21:04 BST (UK)
yes hallmark , that is what i meant to say.
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: heywood on Saturday 27 October 18 21:05 BST (UK)
Is this Margaret 1870?
Parents Michael and Anne Jourdan?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03342/2225243.pdf

They look to have married 1867 so he couldn’t be the one born 1856. So was it Michael, Dunowla,  who was her father?

I am confused.
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 27 October 18 21:05 BST (UK)
Also


https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

Registration District :    Dromore West

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/what-civil-records-are-on-line
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: heywood on Saturday 27 October 18 21:06 BST (UK)
Who is Michael’s father on his marriage to Ann Jourdan/Jordan?
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 27 October 18 21:07 BST (UK)
yes hallmark , that is what i meant to say.

Patrick's birth reg might be on Civil Reg
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: hallmark on Saturday 27 October 18 21:09 BST (UK)
Who is Michael’s father on his marriage to Ann Jourdan/Jordan?


I don't know!
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: heywood on Saturday 27 October 18 21:13 BST (UK)
I am asking kiffagh re the marriage   ;)
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: kiffagh on Saturday 27 October 18 21:19 BST (UK)
there is no listing i am going to spend the next few days going through this minefield of the same christain names and get back to people. thanks again 
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: heywood on Saturday 27 October 18 21:23 BST (UK)
Both Ann Jordan and Michael Finan have the same reference

1867 Quarter 1 volume 19 page 113
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: kiffagh on Saturday 27 October 18 21:34 BST (UK)
Heywood just found the marriage on the civil and no dad for Michael. going to try the church records
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: heywood on Saturday 27 October 18 21:52 BST (UK)
Heywood just found the marriage on the civil and no dad for Michael. going to try the church records

The marriage details aren’t on the site yet, they are too early. You would have to send for the certificate copy.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/i-want-to-get-a-copy-of-a-certificate-what-do-i-do
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: isobelw on Saturday 27 October 18 22:00 BST (UK)
Patrick Finan born 1900 was the son of Patrick Finan and Bridget Callery. 1901 census shows Patrick and Bridget at Dunowla with three children - Patrick age 1, Belenda M age 3 and Michael age 5. Can’t find a birth for Belenda but there is a likely birth in 1894 for a Michael son of Patrick Finan and Delia Calery at Dunowla. Marriage of Patrick Finan and Delia Collery in 1892 shows father of Patrick to be Michael Finan, Farmer ( the names Bridget and Delia are used interchangeably in Ireland).
A Michael Finan died at Dunowla in 1909 aged 88 with informant being his son Patrick. An Ann Finan also died at Dunowla in 1909 with the same informant
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: isobelw on Saturday 27 October 18 22:03 BST (UK)
Frank born 1894 appears to be Francis Finan born at Dromore West to Maggie Finan, Domestic Servant ( illegitimate).
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: heywood on Saturday 27 October 18 22:11 BST (UK)
Those Finans are in 1901 census, Dunowla with a Michael and Mary, aged 75 yrs and 72 yrs.
Are these the parents of Patrick etc?


Possibly Mary and Ann are the same person?
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: kiffagh on Saturday 27 October 18 22:45 BST (UK)
the marriage of Michael finan and anne Jordan in 1867. his father was Michael finan and hers was Thomas Jordan.so i am wondering is this Michael senior the Michael that is on Griffith valuations in dunowla.
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: heywood on Saturday 27 October 18 23:44 BST (UK)
Is there a townland shown for Michael?
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: kiffagh on Sunday 28 October 18 07:33 GMT (UK)
no there is no townland listed
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: heywood on Sunday 28 October 18 07:47 GMT (UK)
Is that from the parish record? Who were the witnesses?
 The civil one may show residences.

It certainly looks as though Michael (Dromore) could be the son of Michael (Dunowla).

There are other Finan families in the area in different townlands but just the two Michaels possibly.
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: isobelw on Sunday 28 October 18 07:57 GMT (UK)
In 1911 Frank (Francis) born 1894 is shown as the grandson of Michael age 74. Also in the household are two daughters of Michael - Célia age 30 and Mary age 42. Cecilia Finan was born in 1874 at Dromore West to Michael Finan and Ann Jourdan. Mary was born in 1868 to same parents. Witness on both births was an Ellen Finan.
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: isobelw on Sunday 28 October 18 08:01 GMT (UK)
An Ann Finan age 75 died at Dromore West in Dec 1909, informant Husband Michael.
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: heywood on Sunday 28 October 18 08:28 GMT (UK)
In 1911 Frank (Francis) born 1894 is shown as the grandson of Michael age 74. Also in the household are two daughters of Michael - Célia age 30 and Mary age 42. Cecilia Finan was born in 1874 at Dromore West to Michael Finan and Ann Jourdan. Mary was born in 1868 to same parents. Witness on both births was an Ellen Finan.

Related thread here - just in case of further searches re children and censuses

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=802414.msg6603280#msg6603280
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: kiffagh on Sunday 28 October 18 13:38 GMT (UK)
Heywood,
no i got the marriage record off family search. no it just listed the two fathers and no townlands mentioned.going to the civil records office
Title: Re: linking to families in the same village
Post by: heywood on Sunday 28 October 18 15:02 GMT (UK)
Heywood,
no i got the marriage record off family search. no it just listed the two fathers and no townlands mentioned.going to the civil records office

That record gives his year of birth as 1843 whereas you have it as 1856.
The FS record would make more sense if he was father to Margaret in 1870.