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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: xpress4 on Sunday 28 October 18 05:32 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I began this discussion in: RootsChat.Com » England (Counties as in 1851-1901) » England » Lancashire (Moderators: sarah, JDGen) » Parish Marriage Record - Flinn & Sandford
But it is truly an Irish genealogy question.
James Sandford and Ann Delaney were married in 1837 in in Mayo, Ireland. James was born in Caledon, Tyrone and Ann in Castletown, Meath. The next record I have of them is in 1843 when their child Mary Jane Sandford was born in Preston, Lancashire and forward.
James worked for the Ordnance Survey Department so the family moved quite a bit.
I think he was involved with the OS in Ireland before moving to England but that's just a hunch. I haven't located either James or Ann's birth records and have found no births in Ireland for their children. The first is in England.
Can anyone suggest how a girl from Meath, married boy from Tyrone in Mayo and then had no children between 1837 and 1843? Where would you begin to find an answer?
Thanks for any suggestions!
Brenda
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Religion?
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Church of Ireland from what I can tell.
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https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=802557.0
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"......James Sandford and Ann Delaney were married in 1837 in in Mayo, Ireland. James was born in Caledon, Tyrone and Ann in Castletown, Meath......"
Are there any other details? Names of fathers? etc
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Unfortunately not. Just on marriage:
10 Apr 1837
Ougaval Parish, Mayo, Ireland
Witnesses: Samuel Flinn and Thomas Heastir from Cavan
Children I've located:
Mary Jane (died as child)
Jane
James (died as child)
Mary Ann
John Henry
William James
All born in England
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Does it say born Caledon? Or is that his address?
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Nothing on
http://search.freefind.com/find.html?si=40012625&pid=r&n=0&_charset_=UTF-8&bcd=%C3%B7&query=sandford
or
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/tyrone/photos/tombstones/markers.htm
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One of the big pieces of work that the Ordnance Survey staff did in Ireland was compile the raw data for Griffiths Valuation (1848 – 1864). They travelled the country starting at the south, and working up to the north, valuing almost every property and every piece of land in the country. The results of that survey can be found on the Griffiths Valuation site: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml
Though this detailed study wasn’t started till 1848 there was an earlier assessment made in the 1830s, in field notebooks (many of which have survived). So there were OS staff travelling the length of the country in the 1830s gathering valuation data (to be used for land taxation purposes). That could explain James’ presence in any or indeed every county in Ireland, if he was working for them at that time.
The OS survey was organized by the army often using Royal Engineers staff, but there were also civilian assistants. So James might have been in the army, or he might have been employed in a civilian capacity.
Regarding the lack of children between 1837 & 1843, there may have been children that died and there might not be a record of them since birth & death registration didn’t start in Ireland till 1864. The Church of Ireland does generally keep baptism and burial records (though not every burial was recorded). However only a small proportion of those records are on-line. For many you need to search the original parish records, which in some cases are in the Representative Church Body (RCB) library in Dublin and in others held by the local Minister. A personal visit is generally required to search them. But if you don’t know where in Ireland he was living, there’s no easy way to identify the correct records. They haven’t all survived anyway. Many early Church of Ireland records were lost in the 1922 fire in Dublin.
My Church of Ireland guide says that the records for Oughaval (also spelled Aughaval) are in the RCB library. Baptisms & marriages start in 1801 and burials in 1820. It also says that some of those records are on the rootsireland site. So evidently they don’t have them all. And obviously if James subsequently moved to another parish (as would be likely if he was working for the OS) then their records may not have survived, or may not be on-line.
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Does it say born Caledon? Or is that his address?
Hi Hallmark, these were the locations listed as place of birth in their 1871 census record in Rickmansworth.
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Does it say born Caledon? Or is that his address?
Hi Hallmark, these were the locations listed as place of birth in their 1871 census record in Rickmansworth.
It's good to have! Many just say Ireland!
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Hi Elwyn,
I also have this document: https://www.ucd.ie/t4cms/Support4.pdf listing the years each county was surveyed and that helps paint a picture of the area covered. Although, when trying to determine the couples next move after Mayo, it doesn't help since there are multiple locations being mapped after they married.
Like you said, he could have been working with the OS as a civilian or military. Then again, might not have been with them until he arrived in England as I have this info which would have him joining later:
Parliamentary Papers, House of Commons and Command, Volume 46
Published 1880
Period of service: 27 years
Retired at age 65.
This record suggests he joined about 1853 but in the 1851 census, his occupation is listed as employed with the OS. So perhaps he was working with them in a more unofficial capacity until 1853. I know the OS was mapping Lancashire in the 1840's so perhaps that's why they came to England.
I'd have to think there were children in Ireland who died. The RCB library sounds like it could hold some answers. However, like you said, without knowing where they were born, it won't be much help until I do. I live in the States so I'm a bit challenged. This is number one on my bucket list! :)
Life would have been so much easier if my ancestors were farmers and stayed put. My other line was with the OS as well so I have the same problem with them! :(
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There were Sandfords living in that part Mayo, where they Married, Tax Collectors... this too also involved marking out holdings and measuring acreage, valuations etc
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There were Sandfords living in that part Mayo, where they Married, Tax Collectors... this too also involved marking out holdings and measuring acreage, valuations etc
That's interesting Hallmark. Where did you find that information?
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The primary purpose of the Orndance Survey was and is mapping. They had no direct role in valuation or taxation, though their 6" to the mile maps were created in part to aid in the land valuation process. The mapping of Ireland at 6" to the mile took from place 1829 to 1842. After 1842, activities in Ireland were much scaled back.
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There were Sandfords living in that part Mayo, where they Married, Tax Collectors... this too also involved marking out holdings and measuring acreage, valuations etc
That's interesting Hallmark. Where did you find that information?
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587457/004587457_00504.pdf